Eye-strain with new monitor - how did you deal with it?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by euskalzabe, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. atreidesgoldenpath

    atreidesgoldenpath Limp Gawd

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    I was very skeptical but I broke down and ordered blue blocker glasses from Felix Gray. They have made a huge difference for me. Some days it was getting so bad I could barely see. I felt like I was going blind.
     
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  2. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Gawd

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    I can sympathize with that. I too was feeling like there was something seriously wrong with my eyes, actually getting legitimately worried. I'm 35, and I've been using glasses since I was 15. Only last November I started to notice worsening symptoms, and this spring it got bad. Looking forward to a new monitor and prescription will do for me.

    That said, I just found this Acer ED323QUR that has everything I want: VA, 32", QHD, curved, 144hz. It's not 4K, but that's a small concession to get everything else. I'll probably get this later this summer and will report back. Hope y'all keep posting about eye-strain issues, I've found this conversation enlightening and inclusive. We really all are affected by very different things!
     
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  3. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Gawd

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    I just bought a Philips 328E9FJAB on Newegg: 32" QHD VA, "only" 75hz but %122 sRGB - I was being tempted by 144hz monitors but I really care more about color reproduction than ultra-smoothness. Best of all, Newegg is now selling it for $289 down from the $330 Amazon charges, and while I was going to wait until the end of the summer, I didn't want to miss a good deal. The Philips is curved, so I still get to experiment how much eye-strain is improved by that.

    Should be here in a week. Will keep you guys posted.
     
  4. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    If you use led bulbs for room lighting ditch them and get incandesants pick up a luminoodle white bias light strip all the others are garbage as well.
     
  5. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Gawd

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    Aren't luminoodles also LED? How would that help? I used to have a LED strip behind the monitor for bias lighting and I can't say it helped anything...

    Also, check this article - according to recent reports if you use warm LED lights, their blue light phototoxicity is similar to old-style bulbs, so that's probably not a factor that aggravates eye-strain (at least not in my case, since I use warm LEDs).

    BTW, a super cheap hack you can do if your LEDs are purer white is to get a red/orange permanent marker and stain the LED. It's effective and quite noticeably warmer for very low cost :) Here's my old LED strip:

    upload_2019-5-20_16-25-58.png
    SMWcGopDPVOXB-DSNArguVg9wQCDQMQwBW2UnqpyqpO2ib6kj3NBedVdwSyr5qkhocxNtIhzKMU96YvYL_=w1250-h938-no.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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  6. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    I tried a warm Edison bulb I felt really good but after being exposed to the fluorescent bulbs at work I couldn't use the warm bulbs anymore.
     
  7. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    This is the best ambient light source idea.gif
    Lampa_halogenowa.jpg
     
  8. Skylinestar

    Skylinestar Limp Gawd

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  9. partikl

    partikl Limp Gawd

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    I got some mild eye fatigue after returning to programming today and spending the whole day on it. I had plenty of natural ambient light and lots of breaks. And it got me searching for information on this issue again. Searching for 'LED retina damage' turned up that a recent study from France found AGAIN what many of us already know through experience, that LED blue-light can damage the eyes. But their study says that high-intensity blue light from LED's is the culprit, rather than LED blue-light in general. I think that isn't true and that more studies will show this over time. And according to these studies of LED blue light, once the retinas are damaged, there is no turning back. In my own case, my new VA monitor has surely been helpful, but I think that damage has been done already by previous displays.

    The report (in French): https://www.anses.fr/en/node/139064

    Also, there was a past study from Spain which reached a similar conclusion: https://www.upi.com/Science_News/20...n-retinas-researchers-say/UPI-52041368287606/

    I think it's something that heavy users of computer displays should keep in mind. And remember that over history many things have been touted as safe until more study was instigated over time. tzone_01.jpg

    I'm seriously questioning my own computer usage at this point. As I have said earlier in the thread, I think that damage has already been done, and when I stay away from computer displays (haven't tried returning to CRT or CCFL) my eyes feel fine. My eyes have felt mostly fine until today (only getting a bit tired here and there), but I have just returned to programming today, which tends to involve long concentration and focus on text.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
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  10. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Gawd

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    Sorry to hear you're having problems again, partikl . Your eyes definitely can get damaged over years and you don't get that back. I've had the new Philips monitor for a few days and I've been very happy with it, I'll try to make a review soon. This week I finally got my new glasses - old prescription was .25 off so that wasn't really contributing to my eye problems. I got the new lenses with blue blocking coatings AND I made them transitional. My new ophthalmologist explained (and then I googled myself) that just 15 minutes of being outside does just as much harm as a whole day in front of your screen, so LEDs are not the only culprit: not wearing sunglasses is just as bad, as you're forcing all that blue light in your eyes and different people's retinas will decay at different speeds. Well, I'm beyond in love with these new glasses: everything has a very slight, nearly imperceptible warm tone to it, and my eyes are SO comfortable all day. I specially notice it at night, like now, when I'm using my computer and I have zero discomfort despite the monitor being the only bring thing in the room. It's seriously impressive. The transition coating is new to me, but already is making a huge difference - I barely notice it happening, I notice it when I realize if I look out of the frame and see it's so much brighter than what I'm seeing through glasses. Never looks "dark", just perfect. A few days with them, and my eyes are very noticeably more relaxed: no tension, pressure, strain, burning... nothing. If you keep having problems, blue light block + transitionals might help you too. In my case the blue light coating was included, the transitional was "only" $70 extra so I decided to try it - I might keep getting it in all my new glasses. So far, excellent.

    I'll see if I can make a review of the Philips monitor tomorrow.
     
  11. partikl

    partikl Limp Gawd

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    I don't need glasses, but I think it would be worth revisiting the eye doc for this issue specifically. Excuse my ignorance on all things glasses, but when you say 'transistional lenses' you mean lenses that change tint according to light conditions?

    I recently talked to my niece, who will be an eye doc someday. I told her that getting a VA monitor has been hugely helpful. It definitely is in general, but working more intensely with text (programming) seems to push things. And I asked her if she still gets eye fatigue from computers (we talked about it before, and she was experiencing very similar, although milder, symptoms to myself), and she said that since she got blue light blocking lenses she hasn't experienced it again.

    Anyway, maybe with a VA monitor and some glasses that have blue blocking (and maybe transistional tinting) I would be ok. It sounds worth trying. Thanks.
     
  12. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Gawd

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    Exactly, transitionals get darker when in strong sunlight, go back to normal in interiors. It takes like 15 seconds for the full transition. I've never had them until now, but I'm noticing the benefit mainly in how "relaxed" my eyes are all day long. I'm told by friends I should keep noticing benefits for a couple weeks, until my eyes have fully relaxed after years of strain.

    Even if you don't use prescription glasses, it could be useful to get non-prespriction blue light blocking ones. Most importantly, always remember to bring your sunglasses when you go out. It wouldn't make sense for you to get transitionals if you're not wearing glasses all day, I'd think - added expense, same inconvenience as having to remember to grab your regular sunglasses. I can tell you that the transitional part doesn't react to the monitor, because it's not enough light, obviously. The transitional part helps outside, but if you always bring your sunglasses it wouldn't be a problem. Then again, if you're wearing glasses, and they automatically adjust depending on brightness, I'm not getting the protection 100% of the time.
     
  13. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Gawd

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    For partikl and others - I just posted a brief review of the Philips curved monitor here. Eye-strain wise, so far it's going really well. I'm enjoying the wrap-around feeling of the curve, contrast is excellent, no flicker, color is wonderful. I'm hoping it'll keep going fine for me. Will keep updating if anything changes.
     
  14. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    Do you really believe light harms eyes?

    Imho opposite is true and lack of strong stimulation makes eyes wimble and weak and complain about everything instead of doing their task: converting photons to electrochemical impulses.
     
  15. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Gawd

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    It's not what I believe, it's what science proves. Talk to an ophthalmologist. I've had several give me similar explanations. I tend to trust science, paired with my own personal experiences.

    Don't forget - your eyes are not like everyone's. Just because something is not problematic for you, it doesn't mean it isn't for millions of others.
     
  16. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    Science also says that sun light stimulates dopamine release in eyes and it is needed to maintain good eye-health and lack of proper stimulation is most likely the cause of rising eyesight issues in young people. This rings with me better than "wear sunglasses at all times when outside" which does not make any sense given my own experiences with sunlight improving eyesight.

    I did sun gazing and felt my eyes being literally burned... so I guess my eyes are truly different ◠‿◠

    Fortunately eyes work the way I felt they do and not how your ophthalmologist think eyes work. Besides what interest your eye doctor have in you seeing well? Sorry, I had to say this...
     
  17. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Gawd

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    Keywords from your post are: "proper stimulation" and "my own experiences". So, let me fix your statement: Fortunately YOUR eyes work the way YOU felt they do. That does not apply to all humans on Earth.

    I'll take the opinion of well regarded doctors both in Europe and the USA over a random online forum commenter. Thanks :)
     
  18. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    Erm, I skimmed some of the things in this last page. Seems like there is a bit off topic, but anyway.

    My 2 cents are: get monitors that are truly flicker free. That have excellent backlights that aren't attached to PWMs. Generally they cost more, but frankly, so do your eyes. Considering it's the interface part of your computer and it's what you spend your entire day looking at: investing here I think is worth it. There are other things you can do ergonomically as well:
    -Technically eye level should be at the top of your screen (not the center like you would for movies).
    -Scale your desktop as well as to make everything easy to see and read (I use high resolution displays for photography and video, but I don't need 100% for the rest of the desktop). Doing that could help a lot.
    -And finally try lowering your brightness (unless you're in an incredibly bright room). I find that if I'm in a dark room with a very bright monitor it wrecks my eyes far faster. I typically set my colorimeter to 100cdm/2. There are tons of people maxing out their brightness to 350-500+ and that to me is eye frying levels of bright, which for me causes my eyes to get tired waaaay faster.

    Secondly I would recommend computer glasses. Some people say they're worthless. For those of us that are a bit more sensitive, I can say they help me. You can get sets that are cheap, but if you want a long lasting set (and you take good care of your things) Felix Gray has incredibly nice sets. I personally prefer non-tinted variations (like as an example those commonly found from Gunnar), but that's because my vocation is editing film and photos so color accuracy as well as long work times are both essential.

    I find my eyes get exhausted after spending a few hours on my laptop, so I try to get up and move around. The glasses also help a lot with this fatigue. I notice that fatigue takes far longer to set in and that it also helps with fatigue when I put them on after using a computer when not wearing them.
     
  19. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    Please do as you please. Hopefully your doctors come up with something more to help you than putting even more glasses on you.

    I am skeptical about this. Having monitor lower than eye line mean you always look down on it which doesn't sound all that healthy, especially considering record of eyesight of people who read books and use smartphones which are used in similar look-down configuration
     
  20. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    1) There is a difference between craning your neck down versus having things be below your horizontal view line. EG: I look across at a laptop monitor, even with the top of the screen being at eye level. Which also in the case of reading books and using cell phones as you put it helps drastically. You can't say that just because some people use bad body mechanics that therefore we all do.
    2) It causes far less eye strain to go down rather than ever having to look up (edit: I realize this concept clearly didn't make sense to you the first time. "Looking down" is a relative term done in this case with the eyes and not the neck. Similarly "looking up" is also a relative term used here referring of movement done with the eyes and not the neck. This is a topic about eye strain not neck fatigue). Which you would have to do constantly if your view is centered. It's fine for multimedia content such as film as it is designed to have most of what is important in the center of the frame. But when working that isn't wear toolbars are. Or indeed half of the screen if you're centered. Whether or not you believe ergonomically that it takes more eye strain to look up in these cases is on you. I just look at what people who look at workplace ergonomics tell me.
    3) Do as you please. I find it odd that I would list a dozen things to do, and you would take basically all of them as well and good (implied by not rejecting them), and then center in on one you claim is false. OP wants suggestions. I gave them. Do them or don't.

    EDIT: Just added a sentence for clarity.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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  21. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    I just feel that position where heavier parts of eye fluid is allowed to move away from photosensitive cells in eye toward external part of the eye as unhealthy even if it might be more comfortable for both neck and even somewhat to eyes itself (though I find looking up just fine if not better). Not that it does as much difference with monitor position which is still in front as it does with eg. reading book that sits on a desk or using smartphone. I might just be taking my hunches about eyes and stuff way too seriously though =P
    But I guess you can probably already tell...
     
  22. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Gawd

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    Ha, I'm now using this new Philips monitor at 0% brightness, and it's still bright enough for daytime use with 2 giant windows around my desk. %100 brightness is just eye-burning in this monitor, I could never use that. I wish I knew how much cdm/2 it's outputting. I use a spyder5express to calibrate, which doesn't tell me more information, kinda wish I had paid more for the next model up to get more information about color gamut, etc.
     
  23. XoR_

    XoR_ Gawd

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    You can use HCFR Colormeter (https://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre-hcfr/hcfr-colormeter/) to measure your display.
    While at it you can also use ArgyllCMS (https://www.argyllcms.com/) to calibrate it.
    Both programs use different than standard driver but installation should be easy.

    While at it I would recommend keeping it around 100cd/m2 and not going too dim.
     
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  24. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Gawd

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    Thanks XoR_ I will try this tonight or tomorrow. I had no idea there were free alternatives available.
     
  25. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    Amazon and Power practical both have the Luminoodle dimmers in stock now they were out of stock for months picked up two because they sent me 7 sets to play with.
     
  26. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    Don't buy the Luminoodle Dimmer switches lol I picked up two one of them shorted out on me.

    I took a Sharpie marker and painted all the leds blue on the luminoodle bad idea......it's really unnatural so don't do that your eyes won't like it.

    What works to get the brightness down on a led strip is take some black Gorilla Tape and cover up maybe 3-4 LEDs on the back of a Bias light strip that really works well.

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  27. euskalzabe

    euskalzabe Gawd

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    Small update: while I've been doing quite well with the new monitor, sometimes my eyes do get sore. I tried lowering the screen a few days ago, so it's now at desk-level and I'm lookin downwards at it. I've noticed a fair amount of improvement in viewing comfort - my eye fatigue is not completely gone, but it's certainly improved. Maybe something that some of you might want to try? I later read that apparently looking upwards lessens the eyes' tear production, while looking downward keeps the eyes more moist, so that might have to do with it. Either way, worth a try.
     
  28. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    Yeah if you get a office chair with a higher lift that also can help instead of looking direclty at the leds I just angled my gaming monitor to the corner of the desk that helps a ton as well. Instead of looking direclty on it for hours on end. Mind you it's only a 24" gaming monitor but it's big enough for me.
     
  29. Comixbooks

    Comixbooks Ignore Me

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    OLED monitors can't come soon enough I read the blue light from those is cut to 1/3.
     
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  30. Lepardi

    Lepardi Limp Gawd

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    Looking upwards means that the muscles are being strained, downwards they are resting.
     
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