Eye-strain with new monitor - how did you deal with it?

demondrops

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u could get your eyes checked at specsavers or whatever, it is not very expensive, they take a scan of the eye and they can see if something is up with it or even if u need glasses ofc. if u need glasses f.ex u will compensate, so your eyes get tense cause u try to focus all the time instead of beeing more relaxed when looking, i can do just fine so long im not on pc or phone but, absolutelty need them if i am on pc or phone over extended time. i switched to a ips after a good while with va, no issues. but i would say i would never use a monitor that size at that distance, my 27" covers my fov just fine and benefit of higher dpi i guess. and 16:9.
 

partikl

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They nearly all use PWM but now at higher frequencies which reduces the number of people susceptible to issues.
PWM is useful to keep the response of the LEDs linear and predictable.
I do wonder if any of these monitors are actually PWM-free, or just high frequency PWM. And I wonder how much of a difference it would make to have a true DC controlled backlight.
 

partikl

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u could get your eyes checked at specsavers or whatever, it is not very expensive, they take a scan of the eye and they can see if something is up with it or even if u need glasses ofc. if u need glasses f.ex u will compensate, so your eyes get tense cause u try to focus all the time instead of beeing more relaxed when looking, i can do just fine so long im not on pc or phone but, absolutelty need them if i am on pc or phone over extended time. i switched to a ips after a good while with va, no issues. but i would say i would never use a monitor that size at that distance, my 27" covers my fov just fine and benefit of higher dpi i guess. and 16:9.
I can't speak for euskalzabe, but I have had my eyes checked by an optometrist. He didn't find anything wrong, and my vision is 20/20. He did write me a prescription for lenses that are blue light blocking and with a slight magnification, just in case I wanted to try them for working with a computer screen. Maybe I should try them just to see if anything improves.
 

euskalzabe

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I go to an ophthalmologist every year to get my eyes checked and prescription updated for my glasses (It's covered by my insurance, so why not). Nothing is wrong with my eyes, other than astigmatism. I have my appointment in May, so I'll find out soon if there's any developments. Either way, I can tell you that subjectively I'm having way less issues since I moved back to the 40" VA panel, vs the 29" IPS that was killing me.
 

partikl

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The S2716DGR showed up today. I really like the size. It's more comfortable to me than the size of the U2515H and definitely more comfortable than 32". Although I do notice the slight decrease in PPI going from 25" to 27" (both at 2560x1440). Color banding is very apparent to me, especially in darker shades. It's alot like setting the desktop to 16-bit color where pixelation is seen between shade transisitions. No way this is a true 8-bit panel, or if it is, something was badly done in it's design. And I think I am seeing more general visual noise. I'll need to do some comparing. Uniformity is less than good, although not that bad. With a black background and the lights out, I see lighter shades running from top to bottom. In normal use, I wouldn't notice the lesser uniformity. In a well lit room, I can just barely make out a lighter corner when viewing a black background. I'm not really bothered by color shifting from viewing angles of the TN panel although I definitely do notice it when intentionally changing my viewing angle to look for the shifting. Contrast seems noticeably lesser than the U2515H, but I'll need to do some comparing (the U2515H has decent contrast for being a non-VA panel). And of course, the thing arrived blazingly bright, set to 75 brightness. I immediately dropped it to 20, leaving all else the same. Any way, other than the color-banding, visually it's pretty ok.

As far as using it with a concern for text and eye comfort, only time can tell that. It isn't immediately uncomfortable is all I can say for now.

Also, I wonder why monitor manufacturers have been moving to bigger and bigger size monitors. 32" feels pretty awkward to me. It is too tall, I feel like I need to push it way back so that it isn't dominating my peripherary, and the PPI decrease at 2560x1440 isn't very good for text sharpness. What I really want is a 27" 5K (5120 × 2880) running at 200% scaling (for effective 2560x1440 real estate with greater than 200 PPI) for desktop use that still looks good when running games at 2560x1440. I think that would very much be the resolution/size sweet spot. Maybe I should just get an Imac.
 
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partikl

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Been using the S2716DGR most of the day, and my eyes are starting to feel some tension and ache.
 

partikl

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Maybe I should just hold out to see what the new gen of monitors brings. I see that there is some nano IPS stuff coming, but it will likely be overly expensive for 2-3 years.
 

partikl

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Something that I haven't given much thought to before is monitor calibration for eye comfort rather than for color accuracy. Calibrating a monitor for color accuracy amounts to jackola for reading text. It's pretty well known that decreasing brightness and blue level can have a big impact on eye comfort, which goes against calibration for color accuracy. But decreasing brightness and blue level is a pretty vague notion. By how much and in what balance should each be decreased? What are the optimal settings for long reading sessions for a given person? And what about other adjustments? Maybe it is the case for example that decreasing contrast is more comfortable for some readers. And maybe there is some optimal profile (no matter which monitor is being used) for a given person. Can a backlit computer monitor be set up to be as comfortable to read from as ink on paper? Surely this has been the subject of someone's research.

Something that I have noticed lately when reading either black on white or white on black on a computer monitor is that if I move my attention away from the text to a portion of the screen that has a blank solid background, I see subtle darker or lighter lines on the background (respectively) that are of the same outline size of the text lines. It seems that the light from the backlight is leaving a lingering imprint upon the eyes. To me that indicates that there is an issue of brightness and constrast for reading. And keep in mind that I adjust the brightness way down. And I don't see those lines as much when reading off-white text (a little less than white) on a dark grey background, but I do still see them even with a monitor set to be fairly dim. RGB values, for example: Text {238, 238, 238}; Background {102, 102, 102}.

Edit: Had those values wrong. Whoops.

Also, oddly using various search engines I find virtually NOTHING on calibrating a monitor for reading text. Google, Bing, Duckduckgo, Searx, Yandex. All results are about color for photography, video, and games. Where can I find discussion about setting up a computer monitor for reading text? And why aren't there any monitors with a primary concern for reading text? Isn't that odd? I mean, most of the web revolves around text. Lot's of people do work that revolves around text. But there are zero monitors made for reading text as a primary concern. Maybe that isn't exactly true. There is one janky and small ereader repurposed for text; the Dasung Paperlike.

An interesting tidbit:

Other researchers have suggested that people comprehend less when they read on a screen because screen-based reading is more physically and mentally taxing than reading on paper. E-ink is easy on the eyes because it reflects ambient light just like a paper book, but computer screens, smartphones and tablets like the iPad shine light directly into people's faces. Depending on the model of the device, glare, pixilation and flickers can also tire the eyes. LCDs are certainly gentler on eyes than their predecessor, cathode-ray tubes (CRT), but prolonged reading on glossy self-illuminated screens can cause eyestrain, headaches and blurred vision. Such symptoms are so common among people who read on screens—affecting around 70 percent of people who work long hours in front of computers—that the American Optometric Association officially recognizes computer vision syndrome.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563204000202
 
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partikl

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Also, using the S2716DGR has been more comfortable today. Maybe it is a matter of time for the eyes to get adjusted to a new monitor.
 

euskalzabe

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Something that I haven't given much thought to before is monitor calibration for eye comfort rather than for color accuracy. Calibrating a monitor for color accuracy amounts to jackola for reading text.
Personally, I color calibrated the 40" Samsung, then turned the TV's color to warm for a bit of a yellower tint, and when I'm going to be reading a bunch, I just enable Night light - whatever Win10 calls it - to about %30 and it's been a recipe for success.

Today I also noticed that I was getting more trouble reading white text on dark background - which seemed illogical, as the whole screen was darker and thus not attacking my eyeballs. I've lowered brightness to 3/20 and I'm now using everything on light mode (that's Win10, Arstechnica, and here at the [H]). We'll see in a few days, but I seem to be doing better with everything being mostly white, as if the strong contrast between dark background/white text was somehow straining my eyes more. Not sure why, but these have so far been the effects.

Also, using the S2716DGR has been more comfortable today. Maybe it is a matter of time for the eyes to get adjusted to a new monitor.
Definitely give it at least a week. Just like switching to new glasses, it takes a while for your eyes to fully adapt.
 

partikl

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Today I also noticed that I was getting more trouble reading white text on dark background - which seemed illogical, as the whole screen was darker and thus not attacking my eyeballs. I've lowered brightness to 3/20 and I'm now using everything on light mode (that's Win10, Arstechnica, and here at the [H]). We'll see in a few days, but I seem to be doing better with everything being mostly white, as if the strong contrast between dark background/white text was somehow straining my eyes more. Not sure why, but these have so far been the effects.
It does seem logical that white text on a dark background would be more comfortable since more of the backlight is being blocked, but counterintutitvely it is terrible for the eyes. There is a high contrast difference focused around the fonts with white text, and white text looks glowy or blown out on a dark background. Also maybe counterintutive, black text on a white background is much less fatiguing. But then the backlight becomes fatiguing on the eyes over time rather than the high contrast and blown out white text. Black text or less than white text (just grey enough that there is no white glow) on a grey background is better for the eyes I think. But it sure won't win any sexy awards. And it's kind of funny when I think about it, but a grey background has a psychological effect, feeling a bit drab. So I think the 'less than white' text on grey does something to counter that drabness (as opposed to black on grey) without looking glowy or blown out. And I think that 'less than white' is easier to read at smaller font sizes, where black text on grey requires either a lighter grey background (more backlight on the eyes) or a larger font size to feel comfortable.

Also, mid grey on black is good when used in isolation. But what I have found is that if I am flipping back and forth between that color scheme and other content that is black on white (such as web pages), it fatigues my eyes pretty quick. So I think it is less practical to use. It is fine if you are staying on a command line for hours, for example.

Any way, I came home from work tonight with my eyes feeling fine. Just spending a little time here posting (black text on white background) is making my eyes start to ache with this monitor (S2716DGR). And I am really noticing how noisy the white background is. It seems like some sort of pixel level flickering is going on (probably FRC). I would swear that this monitor has PWM. Or maybe ULMB is on, but it isn't showing to be on. Whatever it is, there is something about this monitor that doesn't settle with my eyes.

Edit: I just turned on G-Sync in the Nvidia control panel under the display settings (not the 3D settings), and over a few minutes my eyes are already feeling better. I guess I need to get a handle on making sure of when ULMB is turned off. It seemed ok having it on for gaming last night. But if it was also turned on for the desktop, it definitely was not good for reading and writing text. That would explain why my eyes felt ok with this monitor yesterday, but not ok with it today. I had switched on ULMB for gaming last night. But I thought that it was only on for gaming, not for the desktop.

Edit 2: With the refresh rate set at 144 hz and with G-sync on, I noticed that scrolling web pages of text doesn't bother my eyes as it usually does. I think I definitely need to spend a little more time with this monitor to get a handle on it.
 
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partikl

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And I'm back today with achey eyes with the S2716DGR. It felt fine this morning, but over a few hours it got significantly worse. I think this one is going back.

Maybe the Acer XB271HU is worth trying?
 

cybereality

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Are you all sure it's the monitor?

I mean, what happens if you don't use a computer for a few days and just read paper books? Is that okay?
 

partikl

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Are you all sure it's the monitor?

I mean, what happens if you don't use a computer for a few days and just read paper books? Is that okay?
I don't know who you are addressing. I have been there, done that multiple times. I have no issues with paper, unless the lighting is too bright or bad quality. It's largely a light issue, and all monitors are backlit. But my eyes aren't particularly sensitive to light in general. I spend time outside nearly every day in direct sun without having my eyes bothered. I read paper in the shade without having my eyes bothered. At work under fluorescent light my eyes do get bothered when reading paper if I am directly under a light. If I step to the side so that so much direct light isn't hitting the paper, I don't have a problem.

But my eyes are very sensitive to blur. I turn off text anti-aliasing for computer use. With phones the PPI is so high that my eyes aren't bothered by anti-aliasing.
 

cybereality

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What about projectors?

They are pretty cheap now, and I guess aren't technically backlit so maybe that would be more natural.
 

partikl

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This I do not understand.
With subpixel font rendering text look much more like on paper so why disable it?
To my eyes text anti-aliasing is very blurry. With a PPI of ~200 I don't mind anti-aliasing. But at typical computer monitor PPI range it is just too blurry. I know that it sounds crazy turning off anti-aliasing for text, but if you ever try it for a while (give it a couple of weeks), I promise you that you will not want to turn it back on. But printed text is still much crisper.

I am considering going 27-28" 4k. That would leave me stuck at 60 hz, but I am fine with gaming at 60 hz. And it should look great for text without anti-aliasing, at least compared to typical computer monitor PPI.
 
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partikl

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What about projectors?

They are pretty cheap now, and I guess aren't technically backlit so maybe that would be more natural.
It doesn't seem practical at any level (as a desktop monitor replacement), and I doubt that I would get the text sharpness that I want anyway.
 

Nookie420

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I also use a 40" Samsung KU6300(same panel as the 6290 AFAIK)
It's a great budget 4k monitor, I could never go back to 27" after having it.
 

partikl

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Since I haven't sent the 32UD60 back yet, I popped it back out of the box and tried some 2560x1440 gaming on it. It really looks fine. I was expecting to notice a big difference between 4k and 2k gaming on a 4k monitor because of the odd scaling, but I don't notice much difference at all. It's too bad that the backlight uniformity is so uneven on this monitor, else I would keep it. I would still prefer a smaller size (27-28"), but this monitor has alot going for it for my use cases. Text is decently smooth at 32" 4k, VA is a little more comfortable on the eyes, 60 hz 2k gaming is fine, and it has 6 color adjustment (saturation and hue for red, green, and blue) which would likely dial in pretty nicely. I may end up keeping this one any way. The panel isn't as quality as the 32GK650F, but pros and cons...

The only 27" 4k 144hz monitor that is even remotely affordable that I see is the Acer Nitro XV273K at $800, and apparently the quality is poor, which is insane. And I'm not seeing anything in the pipeline at 27" 4k 144hz that would likely be affordable, not to mention decent qualilty.

euskalzabe, having spent today on the S2716DGR and having eye issues, my eye issues went away over an hour after swapping in one of the VA monitors (32UD60). I think there definitely is something with VA that makes it more comfortable on the eyes. It isn't perfect of course, but something about the backlighting just feels better to look at. And this current VA isn't exactly high quality. I would say that it is on par with the TN that it just replaced, which was giving me eye ache today.

I think I would really like a 27" VA 4K 144hz over anything I have tried to date, as long as the quality is decent. But I don't know how feasible that is. For some reason there are no 4K VA monitors smaller than 31.5".
 
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euskalzabe

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euskalzabe, having spent today on the S2716DGR and having eye issues, my eye issues went away over an hour after swapping in one of the VA monitors (32UD60). I think there definitely is something with VA that makes it more comfortable on the eyes. It isn't perfect of course, but something about the backlighting just feels better to look at. And this current VA isn't exactly high quality. I would say that it is on par with the TN that it just replaced, which was giving me eye ache today.

I think I would really like a 27" VA 4K 144hz over anything I have tried to date, as long as the quality is decent. But I don't know how feasible that is. For some reason there are no 4K VA monitors smaller than 31.5".
Thanks for the update partikl . Either we're onto something, or we just happen to have the same type of eye-strain issues :) I've been doing better on the 40" VA, although I do wish it was a teeny bit smaller. I think I'm going to wait until 32" OLED monitors come out from JOLED next year and see where things go. Most likely my next monitor will be 32" 4K, but for now, this TV is doing a fine job.

Glad your eyes are doing better by the way!
 

partikl

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Thanks for the update partikl . Either we're onto something, or we just happen to have the same type of eye-strain issues :) I've been doing better on the 40" VA, although I do wish it was a teeny bit smaller. I think I'm going to wait until 32" OLED monitors come out from JOLED next year and see where things go. Most likely my next monitor will be 32" 4K, but for now, this TV is doing a fine job.

Glad your eyes are doing better by the way!
Thanks.

Waiting on OLED seems like a unicorn situation. I wonder if we will ever see the burn-in issue worked out. It looks great, though. And it would be so much better without PWM. Every OLED phone I have had also had PWM, which killed my eyes. But the PPI of OLED phone displays is great, not to mention the color qualities.
 

partikl

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So I already mentioned that when I swapped in the 32UD60 (VA 4K) monitor for the S2716DGR, my eyes felt much better over an hour's time. I have been using it about 3 hours after work, without even a hint of eye fatigue. And I realized just 15 minutes ago that I had left the brightness set to 50. I now have it down to 25, just in case. But I'll see how it goes tomorrow. Too bad it isn't a better gaming monitor, but if eye comfort holds over a couple of days, I'm keeping it (unless some other VA 4K monitor with a high refresh rate suddenly pops up, which isn't likely).
 

euskalzabe

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Waiting on OLED seems like a unicorn situation. I wonder if we will ever see the burn-in issue worked out. It looks great, though. And it would be so much better without PWM. Every OLED phone I have had also had PWM, which killed my eyes. But the PPI of OLED phone displays is great, not to mention the color qualities.
Well, at least we're getting Mini-LED displays this year from Asus and Acer, but they're like $3000 each. Maybe when those come way down in price, probably sooner than OLED, that could be an option. At this point, my next step is pretty clear for me: 32" 4K MiniLED or OLED, preferably curved for added contrast/color ease on the eyes. I wanted to have bought a curved monitor instead of this TV, but they are mostly 1080p...
 

partikl

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Since the 32UD60 (VA) felt ok to my eyes and the S2716DGR (TN) did not, I had to check back with the U2515H (IPS). With the same viewing distance and scaling for comfortable size text as with the 32UD60, I'm finding it to be pretty ok. And after reading this, http://www.office-ergo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Monitor-Viewing-Distance.-Ankrum-D.R..pdf , I'm finding that a little further viewing distance (I have the thing resting against my wall, hanging off the back of my desk) is more comfortable.

I know I have been going back and forth with what I think is ok or not, but I guess that when being honest with oneself, that is just part of the process. At this point, with no PWM and sane brightness, I think the biggest issue is viewing distance, not the panel type. At least for me, personally. So with this IPS sitting at a viewing distance of almost 40", it feels about as comfortable as the VA monitor. And I think that a little bigger size and a little more distance would be even more comfortable. 32" was not comfortable to me.

Any way, I will likely switch back to the 32UD60 one more time to see if I notice any major difference.

And I think that with the S2716DGR, there must be some sort of flicker going on with it. It just seemed so noisy to me (and eye aching). My best guess is FRC.
 
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partikl

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I continued on after work using the U2515H (IPS) late into the morning, reading all straight up black on white. With this viewing distance (42" when sitting back in my chair; 34" when sitting forward) and scaling, this monitor is as comfortable on the eyes as any display I have ever used and probably more so, since CRT gave me dry and red eyes after some long hours (but NEVER eye fatigue). But I also used CRT's up pretty close (most likely wayyy too close).

Any way, I think that having plenty of viewing distance and adjusting scaling accordingly is key (it seems to be an eye convergance issue), along with avoiding displays that flicker via PWM or FRC (if you are sensitive to flicker), sane brightness and contrast (it's definitely a balance), and avoiding forms of blur.

I might just rock the U2515H until 4K 144hz becomes the norm and prices drop so that I can get a 27"-28" 4K 144hz at a sane price. The color, contrast, uniformity, and clarity are suprisingly good on this IPS display, although it can't escape the IPS glow. And it's doubtful, but maybe monitor manufacturers' quality control will see an improvement by then. I almost can't believe how bad some of these displays look that are selling at the $400-600 price point with the uniformity issues, backlight bleed, and way overboard glow. Sure, resolutions and other aspects have improved over the years, but it's crazy to me that display quality has fallen so low with bigger sizes, which I think is another reason to stay as small as practical. I would go ahead and get a 27" 4K 60 hz monitor, but I am seeing so many horror stories on the backlight issues mentioned above that I don't want to get into the IPS panel lottery right now and end up with something significantly worse than what I already have. The U2515H is a bit on the small side, but at least it doesn't look like crap. And I think I only paid $200 or so for it on sale at a big box store locally. Quality wise, it puts the S2716DGR and 32UD60-B to shame. The quality on the 32GK650F is about as good as the U2515H, keeping in mind worse viewing angles of VA but glow with IPS. But I feel that I can't push a 32" monitor back far enough to get my eyes as comfortable as I would like.

Any way, I think that ordering some monitors to try out definitely has not been a waste of time. I learned that I want 4k or greater, that I want 27-28" (definitely not 32" or greater), that IPS can be comfortable on my eyes (although I think VA could be more comfortable at 27"-28") when everything is in check (brightness, no flicker, more viewing distance), that viewing distance plays a big role in eye comfort, that off white text on a little darker than mid grey background is the most comfortable for me to read on a display, and probably a few other things which I am forgetting to mention. Oh yea, and that high refresh rates are nice, but that 60 hz is really fine for non-competitive gaming.

And on that last point specifically, after playing around quite a bit with frame rate capping, I feel that it is a giant leap going from 30 fps to 60 fps, less than half more of that going from 60 fps to 120 fps, and past that I couldn't say. I doubt that I could pick out 120 hz and 144 hz in a blind test, and in some cases I might have a hard time picking out 60 fps from 120 fps. But going from 30 fps to 60 fps is so much of an improvement. Console gamers don't know how bad they have it, but millions of people are gaming on consoles nonetheless.
 
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euskalzabe

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I almost can't believe how bad some of these displays look that are selling at the $400-600 price point with the uniformity issues, backlight bleed, and way overboard glow. Sure, resolutions and other aspects have improved over the years, but it's crazy to me that display quality has fallen so low with bigger sizes, which I think is another reason to stay as small as practical. I would go ahead and get a 27" 4K 60 hz monitor, but I am seeing so many horror stories on the backlight issues mentioned above that I don't want to get into the IPS panel lottery right now and end up with something significantly worse than what I already have.
The backlight problems you're referring to should be fixed once we have OLEDs (or their inorganic counterpart) as mainstream in all screens. Once pixels are self-lighting, there won't be any more backlights necessary. That future could be a ways away, but at least MiniLED is starting this year (at crazy prices of course), so maybe in a couple years we'll have MiniLED displays for about $500 and that'll cut down on most of that light bleed by virtue of the numerous dimming zones. At this point, having found something you're comfortable with, I'd say there's no point on buying anything else until contrast can really, and I mean really be improved (so, until MiniLED at the earliest or OLED/inorganic equivalents are ready).
 

partikl

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And I'm back to eye fatigue with the U2515H. :banghead:

So then, I guess I'll swap back in a VA to see if the eye fatigue lets up.
 
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partikl

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Already, my eyes feel better. That quick! It was a similar situation when getting sore eyes from the TN monitor (S2716DGR) and switching to VA. So let's see how my eyes feel in another hour or so. And by the way, I'm reading around on forums and such (black on white), with a little video here and there.

Edit: Yep, my eyes are feeling way better with the VA. The aren't completely back to normal, but I think only some sleep will fully relieve the ache that I got from the IPS. And I'm not sure why lately that sometimes the IPS monitor is ok on my eyes and sometimes it isn't. But sooner or later it ends up getting me.

Maybe if I get a monitor floor stand I can get a little more viewing distance and lower the thing a few inches, which should help with not liking the 32" size (too tall and wide for me).
 
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euskalzabe

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Already, my eyes feel better. That quick! It was a similar situation when getting sore eyes from the TN monitor (S2716DGR) and switching to VA. So let's see how my eyes feel in another hour or so.
In my experience, that's not long enough to claim victory. You might have some temporary relief, but your eye muscles are still overworked from the previous experience, your eye pressure is higher than it should. It takes a good 10 days for eyes to return to normal. I'd also suggest putting some almond oil over and under your eyes when you go to sleep, it's definitely helped hydrate my eyes. 2 weeks later on the 40" VA I'm doing quite well.
 

euskalzabe

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Same here. I'm going to be very wary of buying non-VA panels from now on. Not changing this recipe for success until MiniLED, hopefully also on a VA panel :)
 

Vader1975

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When I switched from my 3 27's I moved to a 34 Inch Ultrawide LG. Its the same height physically as my old 27's and I moved up to 1440. When switching make sure to ponder the vertical realaestate volume. Also, any increase in rez may require using features in windows such as large text mode.
 

XoR_

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I already said different LCD technologies require different eye focus. This was especially obvious to me when switching from VA to IPS. In my case this didn't result in any eye strain however, just in me looking at panel differently and I actually like IPS presentation more even despite there being nothing tangible to focus at or perhaps exactly for that reason.

If some people as it seems are less flexible in these kind of things then it might as well be that VA panels are better for them. I must admit that VA are in some way more like flat surface in that eyes have at least surface to focus at, unlike IPS which seems to be more like watching transparent mosaic of colored glass.
 

euskalzabe

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
1,060
I must admit that VA are in some way more like flat surface in that eyes have at least surface to focus at, unlike IPS which seems to be more like watching transparent mosaic of colored glass.
That's an interesting way to describe IPS, and it kind of make sense with what I experience. Like it's not a regular surface that I can comfortably focus on. Never thought of it this way, but it makes plenty of sense to me.
 
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
1
I have a Dell U2417H that I purchased a couple of years ago. It has an IPS panel and uses a WLED backlight without PWM. I didn't have a lot of problems using it in the daytime but I had a lot of eye strain when using it at night. These two videos by NCX helped me a lot:

Display Brightness & Room Lighting: The Importance Of Light[1]
IPS vs TN: Right & Wrong Ways To Use; How To Reduce IPS Glow & Increase The Perceived Black Depth[2]


Using the information in these two videos I saw a significant reduction in eye strain when using my monitor at night. My setup is:

1. Monitor is mounted about an arms length away from me on this[3] Vivo stand.
2. Monitor is titled slightly upward (this is not mentioned in the videos but I found that it helped.)
3. All the lights are turned off in the room (lights are turned on in a nearby room.)
4. One Feit 1600 lumen 3000K bright white bulb is used as a bias light. It is attached to the Vivo mount using a light fixture that has a clamp[4] (I took off the shield.)
5. Monitor brightness is set to 25% and contrast to 70% for use with the 1600 lumen bulb, based on this slide[5] in [1] and the contrast and brightness settings listed here[6].
6. The color settings for the monitor are set to "Color Temp" at "0K".


Of note though is at work I use two Planar PLL2410W monitors that have:

- TFT panels
- WLED backlight with PWM


I experience no eyestrain with these monitors when using them in daytime, even though my back is facing two large windows. The only time I have eyestrain is if all of the office lights are off. I'm not sure if the office windows have an anti glare treatment (I assume so) that may make a difference.

I think that differences in panel types, contrast ratios, pixel pitch, etc. affects some people differently than others, causing some people to have trouble with a certain monitor while others can have no trouble with that same monitor.




[1]

[2]

[3] https://vivo-us.com/products/stand-v001

[4] https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-8-1...ent-Light-Fixture-with-Clamp-277894/202847393

[5]

[6] https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/dell-u2417h-u2417ha/#Contrast_and_brightness
 

partikl

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
144
It's been a couple of more weeks. Still no eye fatigue from a VA monitor. And I did end up staying with the 32UD60, despite the uniformity issue. Eye comfort is way more important to me. And after years of dealing with eye fatigue from monitors, no way I would go back to IPS or TN.

The lack of scaling for 4K for some gui's can be a pain here and there, but no way I would go back to a lower PPI. Text is so much better on 140 PPI than with 115. It could still be better for sure, but this is fine. In other words, this PPI is minimum for me.
 

euskalzabe

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
1,060
It's been a couple of more weeks. Still no eye fatigue from a VA monitor. And I did end up staying with the 32UD60, despite the uniformity issue. Eye comfort is way more important to me. And after years of dealing with eye fatigue from monitors, no way I would go back to IPS or TN.

The lack of scaling for 4K for some gui's can be a pain here and there, but no way I would go back to a lower PPI. Text is so much better on 140 PPI than with 115. It could still be better for sure, but this is fine. In other words, this PPI is minimum for me.
Glad you're still doing fine. How are you liking the colors on the UD60? I read that it supports DCI P3, which I'd assume since it doesn't support HDR that it just gives you better color saturation? The UD60 has also been on my radar lately so your experience might sway me. Then again I want to wait and see about that QLED HP you saw on the other thread. I'm also looking at the Viotek GN32DB because I read higher refresh can still help eyes, and curved displays also reduce eye strain.

So right now my choices are 4k VA DCI P3, QHD QLED or QHD curved 144hz. I'm a big worried about the HP due to its PLS (IPS type) panel, so the LG and Viotek might take preference in my final choice.
 

euskalzabe

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 9, 2009
Messages
1,060
Small update: got my new prescription today, turns out my astigmatism has increased .25 in my left eye and .5 in my right eye, for a total of 2.75 on the left and 3.00 on the right. That alone might be a big factor in why I've been having so much trouble for the past few months, out of nowhere. It's still pretty clear to me that IPS panels would make it worse than VA, but now I'm looking forward to the new glasses I ordered to see if the burning/discomfort completely go away. I went head and got all the coatings as usual - I use glasses 24/7 even if I don't really need to other than for reading/driving, so I don't cheap out there - and I specifically went to an ophthalmologist who's lens shop could do 1) blue light blocking coating and 2) transitional glasses, which apparently block the most blue light of any other coatings. Should have the new glasses in a couple weeks, will report re: eye-strain then.

As for the monitor, I'm going to have a couple trips in the next month and a half so there's no point on buying anything now... come July though, I might go with the Pixio PX329 - 32" QHD VA Panel, 144hz (overclockable to 165hz, but that doesn't matter to me much, I'd rather have 144hz Freesync). Only thing at this point that might delay me a bit is if new panels come out in August, I might wait and see what's released. Sadly the Pixio isn't curved, not that I've ever had a curved monitor, but I keep reading that it helps with eye strain. I was thinking of the Viotek 32" panel that's popular, but there seems to be too many issues with build quality and other annoyances that have driven me away from it. The more I read, it looks like 144hz VA will be a great combo for eye-comfort, it would only be better if it were curved... but I don't think I want to go the 34" ultrawide route again.
 
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