Existing server as mining rig with riser boards: 3080x2 + 1080ti, power questions, dual psu and other questions

markm75

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I know i'm a little late to the mining game (some will say after july things will get non profitable for mining), however, i overspent now have a dedicated 3080 for mining.

I have an existing plex/media/security cam (blue iris) server in the basement, 6700k with z170a motherboard (has 3 pciex16 slots, well technically with 2 cards its x8 and 3 cards, x8 x8 and x4).

Im going to at least initially just use this board for mining since it shouldnt bother the cpu (my 6700k can take a hit from the blue iriis streamer or even transcoding plex at times), but no gpu (onboard as of now).

I'm thinking i dont even need a wire rack rig next to it for now (or dedicated mining board).

My questions are: has anyone put multiple 3080s in the same board like this, would x8 dual cause the hash rate to be much less than the 100 MH/s i get now on my gaming pc with the 3080 ftw3?
If so, i guess the next question is, putting a riser means just extending those x16 slots effectively correct? So of no use unless i do this separately? If i do build a separate rig/mb, what brand risers work without frying the video card (i've read horror stories on some on amazon)?

For now i have a single 850 psu that i was going to use, and for now itll just be a single 3080. If mining is still profitable past july i should still be able to at least do dual off the 850 i think (what do you do when you get into triple or more cards, i assume some sort of server psu of very high watts, single unit)?

Thanks for any suggestions here
 
Risers for mining are x1 and mining doesnt care so no you will not see a change in hash rates. Worry about risers if you run out of space to plug in more cards to the mobo. The only downside to multiple gpu off mobo is you cant fit many cards and they get hotter because they end up spaced close together. Often installing a card blocks one ore more x1 or other pciex slots that you could use if using risers.
 
Risers for mining are x1 and mining doesnt care so no you will not see a change in hash rates. Worry about risers if you run out of space to plug in more cards to the mobo. The only downside to multiple gpu off mobo is you cant fit many cards and they get hotter because they end up spaced close together. Often installing a card blocks one ore more x1 or other pciex slots that you could use if using risers.
Ah I hadn't realized you could get away with x1 this older board has a ton of slots so I guess if I wanted an external cage n risers I could put them in the x16 and x1 slots later for now just 2 inside the case I have

Any suggestions on good quality risers that won't fry a 2k$ video card:)?
 
Power the riser with the 6 pin from the psu or use a molex to 6 pin adapter. Don't power it with the SATA power adapter.
molex to 6pin isnt even a good idea with 3080s and above. they can easily pull as much as 85w on some brands and thats way overspec for what 18gauge 5v molex is rated for. EVGA FTW3 3080s and 3090s are known to regularly pull at least 85w power draw from the pcie slot. molex is rated for 54w. upper end 30series should only be powered with 6pin pcie power cables.
 
This might need a new thread now that i'm branching off, but,
im now leaning towards switching to this 1000 watt psu
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/season...-10-yr-warranty-black/6414258.p?skuId=6414258
However, unless im seeing it wrong, it appears to only have 3 pcie cables for the gpus?

EDIT: i think this one is a better deal https://www.bestbuy.com/site/evga-g...ar-power-supply-black/6209800.p?skuId=6209800
(evga supernova has 6 pcie at least)

There is a corsair 1200 watt version that seems to have 6, but its out of stock everywhere.


My goal now: 3080 x 2, plus 1080ti on my existing board via the pciex16 slots (one at 4x, the others at 8x) and power the risers via pcie as well (i guess split off the gpu if the watts dont exceed)

I'm assuming id need splitter cables off the psu pcie to go to each card but i'd need to be sure to not exceed the individual cable limits?
 
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This might need a new thread now that i'm branching off, but,
im now leaning towards switching to this 1000 watt psu
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/season...-10-yr-warranty-black/6414258.p?skuId=6414258
However, unless im seeing it wrong, it appears to only have 3 pcie cables for the gpus?

EDIT: i think this one is a better deal https://www.bestbuy.com/site/evga-g...ar-power-supply-black/6209800.p?skuId=6209800
(evga supernova has 6 pcie at least)

There is a corsair 1200 watt version that seems to have 6, but its out of stock everywhere.


My goal now: 3080 x 2, plus 1080ti on my existing board via the pciex16 slots (one at 4x, the others at 8x) and power the risers via pcie as well (i guess split off the gpu if the watts dont exceed)

I'm assuming id need splitter cables off the psu pcie to go to each card but i'd need to be sure to not exceed the individual cable limits?

If you are unable to find a single PSU with enough PCIE connectors you can run multiple PSU's instead and pick up something like this so that they power off and on in sync: https://www.amazon.com/BAY-Direct-Multiple-Connector-Ethereum-Connector/dp/B077VQL5NT

I have used them and they work great. Just make sure you power both the GPU and its riser from the same PSU. For powering my risers I use a 8pin to dual 6 pin splitter like this: https://www.amazon.com/Express-Adapter-Y-Splitter-Extension-Graphics/dp/B08Y8B2Q9R This also gives you a bit more length to separate the cards.
 
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This might need a new thread now that i'm branching off, but,
im now leaning towards switching to this 1000 watt psu
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/season...-10-yr-warranty-black/6414258.p?skuId=6414258
However, unless im seeing it wrong, it appears to only have 3 pcie cables for the gpus?

EDIT: i think this one is a better deal https://www.bestbuy.com/site/evga-g...ar-power-supply-black/6209800.p?skuId=6209800
(evga supernova has 6 pcie at least)

There is a corsair 1200 watt version that seems to have 6, but its out of stock everywhere.


My goal now: 3080 x 2, plus 1080ti on my existing board via the pciex16 slots (one at 4x, the others at 8x) and power the risers via pcie as well (i guess split off the gpu if the watts dont exceed)

I'm assuming id need splitter cables off the psu pcie to go to each card but i'd need to be sure to not exceed the individual cable limits?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154014725246?hash=item23dbfe347e:g:J5EAAOSwCDtfypBw
+ buy extra PCI-E cables, you're able to use 6 separate pci-e cables on this PSU. I can run five to six 3060 Ti / 3070 on each PSU that draws about ~ 650-800w at the wall on one of these mining ETH.

Kinda pricey to be spending almost $200 on a psu to mine at this possible turning point of crypto unless you're in the for the long run and just mining coins to hold.

Another alternative is to use these if you're setting up your miners where noise isn't an issue.. you'll never need to worry about having enough PCI-E cables ever again. ZSX breakout board that has a built-in ATX connectors or add a pci-atx PSU to jump start one of these:

https://www.parallelminer.com/product/hp-1200w-platinum-power-supply-110-240v-gpu-mining-psu/

ZSX Breakout board

~900w on 110v or 1200w on 220v.
 
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/154014725246?hash=item23dbfe347e:g:J5EAAOSwCDtfypBw
+ buy extra PCI-E cables, you're able to use 6 separate pci-e cables on this PSU. I can run five to six 3060 Ti / 3070 on each PSU that draws about ~ 650-800w at the wall on one of these mining ETH.

Kinda pricey to be spending almost $200 on a psu to mine at this possible turning point of crypto unless you're in the for the long run and just mining coins to hold.

Another alternative is to use these if you're setting up your miners where noise isn't an issue.. you'll never need to worry about having enough PCI-E cables ever again. ZSX breakout board that has a built-in ATX connectors or add a pci-atx PSU to jump start one of these:

https://www.parallelminer.com/product/hp-1200w-platinum-power-supply-110-240v-gpu-mining-psu/

ZSX Breakout board

~900w on 110v or 1200w on 220v.

Yeah i was trying to keep costs minimal on the psu..

However, i dont think 850 watts is enough if i have dual 3080's and a 1080ti? Most online calculators put the total (max worst case if not throttled) load at 1175 (meaning need a gold 1300 watt psu, or dual psu).

Im leaning towards the dual psu with the adapter to connect the two ($129 per 850 watt psu).. but still unsure and concerned about safety with two psus? Also how do you sync turning on the system with two psus (let alone without a power button, i guess short the pin so always on if the psu's are on)?
*i ended up reading reviews on the other adapter, this one seemed more solid https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08F9WGLP2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I guess option b i could spend slightly more and try this corsair 1200 watt: https://www.newegg.com/corsair-hx-series-hx1200-cp-9020140-na-1200w/p/N82E16817139205?quicklink=true
 
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If you are unable to find a single PSU with enough PCIE connectors you can run multiple PSU's instead and pick up something like this so that they power off and on in sync: https://www.amazon.com/BAY-Direct-Multiple-Connector-Ethereum-Connector/dp/B077VQL5NT

I have used them and they work great. Just make sure you power both the GPU and its riser from the same PSU. For powering my risers I use a 8pin to dual 6 pin splitter like this: https://www.amazon.com/Express-Adapter-Y-Splitter-Extension-Graphics/dp/B08Y8B2Q9R This also gives you a bit more length to separate the cards.
Thanks, is there ever a fire hazard/risk doing dual like this? Im concerned about frying something.

So far i'm leaning this direction though, seems easier than finding a super large psu (and cheaper). I've ordered a few of those 8 to 6 pin splitters and 8 to 8 pin splitters too. I guess no need for those motherboard y adapters if using this dual adapter for the psu's (those y splitter cables for motherboard have a lot of reviews about catching fire).
 
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If you are unable to find a single PSU with enough PCIE connectors you can run multiple PSU's instead and pick up something like this so that they power off and on in sync: https://www.amazon.com/BAY-Direct-Multiple-Connector-Ethereum-Connector/dp/B077VQL5NT

I have used them and they work great. Just make sure you power both the GPU and its riser from the same PSU. For powering my risers I use a 8pin to dual 6 pin splitter like this: https://www.amazon.com/Express-Adapter-Y-Splitter-Extension-Graphics/dp/B08Y8B2Q9R This also gives you a bit more length to separate the cards.
Using both of these as well. No issues.
 
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That specific / exact amazon one? I think someone in the reviews mentioned a delay on starting, so i found the recommended one to be this one based on that alone https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08F9WGLP2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

How are you starting up the system with dual psu's, putting them on a power strip?

the add2psu type device makes it pretty safe. your main power supply plugs a molex into the adapter and the 12 pin on the second psu then plug into it. in this way the adapter will send a shutdown or power on signal to the second PSU when it detects that the primary psu is powered on or off. There is very little current going into the device its just for signaling. so you simply power off and on the system like you normally would. I personally think its better and more safe to pull 1100 watts from 2x 850 watt psu's then it is to pull from one 1300w psu as you are not in any way coming close to overloading either psu this way or getting near its maximum.
 
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the add2psu type device makes it pretty safe. your main power supply plugs a molex into the adapter and the 12 pin on the second psu then plug into it. in this way the adapter will send a shutdown or power on signal to the second PSU when it detects that the primary psu is powered on or off. There is very little current going into the device its just for signaling. so you simply power off and on the system like you normally would. I personally think its better and more safe to pull 1100 watts from 2x 850 watt psu's then it is to pull from one 1300w psu as you are not in any way coming close to overloading either psu this way or getting near its maximum.
That sounds pretty reasonable with the add2psu in the mix i guess.
So leave the second psu on switch on all the time and the main one just flick on and off to turn the whole system on or off i take it? (while having a jumper on the power switch pins on the board)?
 
That sounds pretty reasonable with the add2psu in the mix i guess.
So leave the second psu on switch on all the time and the main one just flick on and off to turn the whole system on or off i take it? (while having a jumper on the power switch pins on the board)?

Leave both PSU's main switches turned on all the time unless you need to cycle it for some reason. To Power up the rig you are powering on the motherboard like you normally would in a typical computer using the power or reset switches from the motherboard. If you don't' have it in a case you can buy a combo power / reset switch that plugs into the standard pins on the motherboard something like this. https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-2-Pack-Motherboard-Computer/dp/B07FK7BQG9
You want to make sure that your main PSU is powering all the other parts of the motherboard (12 pin / cpu 8 pin etc) If you "shut down" your computer it will also shut down both PSU just like with a standard computer setup.

Yes i plug my PSU's into a power bar just like I would any expensive equipment to hopefully help with things like the event of a power surge.
 
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Also you can run more than one of these add2psu adapters so if you want to run 3 or 4 PSU's together in this way its fine. You just need the sata or molex from the main psu feeding into the appropriate slot of the adapter and the 12 pin from the secondary PSU plugged into the adapter. Primary PSU powers the motherboard / cpu etc and maybe a GPU or two and the secondary PSU's power additional video cards and the power for the risers for said cards.
 
Leave both PSU's main switches turned on all the time unless you need to cycle it for some reason. To Power up the rig you are powering on the motherboard like you normally would in a typical computer using the power or reset switches from the motherboard. If you don't' have it in a case you can buy a combo power / reset switch that plugs into the standard pins on the motherboard something like this. https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-2-Pack-Motherboard-Computer/dp/B07FK7BQG9
You want to make sure that your main PSU is powering all the other parts of the motherboard (12 pin / cpu 8 pin etc) If you "shut down" your computer it will also shut down both PSU just like with a standard computer setup.

Yes i plug my PSU's into a power bar just like I would any expensive equipment to hopefully help with things like the event of a power surge.
Nice ok, i dont know if the mining rig i ordered or the one i think i'm going to switch to has the power button with it (guessing not, so thats a good reference ill grab one of those).
Thanks for these tips ill keep them in mind.

I assume i can just screw on 4 or 5 fans (blowing towards the gpus?, its the basement so its cool down there) and use this https://www.amazon.com/DAYREE-Conne...o+molex+5&qid=1622394402&s=electronics&sr=1-3

The rig i originally ordered was this : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08XJGG2YX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 but it sounds like the second psu has to be in a weird position or maybe wont fit.

So i think i'm going to switch to the veddha 6 gpu one (has fan adapters too):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B091D2H3F7/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A2BTFENBZ612M&psc=1
(I found a few versions on ebay in the usa for a bit less)

Secondary to all this, hopefully the difficulty eth bomb predicted for july doesn happen or there are alternative choices if it makes things less profitable.
 
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Pretty sure its gonna happen soon . May not be July but its already in progress as there are plenty of Eth staking nodes already. Will there be other profitable coins to mine? probably but likely not nearly the same level of profit at least for a while. As mentioned this is probably absolutely the worst time to be buying gear as when profits DO go down you can pick up mining motherboards / frames / PSU' and all the bits you need for fire sale prices and especially if you don't mind buying used. Its best if you can stock up on these things during a down market and then you are all ready to go when things tick up again.
 
If the area you are setting up your miner is cool and you leave plenty of space between your cards you may not even need extra fans but they never hurt. Also a mining rig will very quickly turn a cool basement into a hot dungeon once you add enough gear
 
Pretty sure its gonna happen soon . May not be July but its already in progress as there are plenty of Eth staking nodes already. Will there be other profitable coins to mine? probably but likely not nearly the same level of profit at least for a while. As mentioned this is probably absolutely the worst time to be buying gear as when profits DO go down you can pick up mining motherboards / frames / PSU' and all the bits you need for fire sale prices and especially if you don't mind buying used. Its best if you can stock up on these things during a down market and then you are all ready to go when things tick up again.
I picked up a 1080ti for a reasonable cost (around 500), the one 3080 was a gouging on ebay yes, kinda dumb of me, esp if i cant roll on for 3 months mining. I have other machines in the house mining so there is that for now. I'm hoping to grab a preorder on a 3080ti and then take my existing gaming 3080 and put in this mining rig (i assume if that happens its this week, who knows though).
 
So at this point i have the two 850 watt units coming (i assume 7 amps per unit),
This 6 gpu chassis frame (can only really hold 2 psu's i think): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B091D2H3F7/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2BTFENBZ612M&psc=1

The 1080ti and 3080 ready to go, future 3rd 3080. As said above the dual 850s are fine for this and maybe one other card on top of it.

However, I thought of planning ahead for max ability, lets say i got hold of more 3080s to max out the rig at 6x3080, well now there isnt enough power.
I'm thinking it best to up the power now so i dont have to rewire later.

350watt 3080 x6 + 270 (for the risers) + 150 extras x 1.25 = 3150 watts?
Even 850x3 is only 2550, though i think the above number is really over done but i'm figuring worst case?
Secondly, this brings up an outlet issue, i believe as of now the outlet i have (which also is fed by a 14 gauge extension unfortunately in the basement, not ideal but meets the original wattage i think), the outlet is 20 amp max and its not good to split up the psu's across different outlets?

Any thoughts to the above, i've probably created more of a mess than will ever be needed but I at least wanted to have the right plan for later. I think i can have just the two 850's on the same 20 amp outlet no issue (14 amps).
I've seen some YT videos with the same rig done with dual Platinum 1300 watt psu's, though i think i could also get away with just dual 1200 watt gold psu's (about $600 total, an extra $300 or so over the dual 850's originally planned)

I could just get this psu x 2 (seasonic 1300watt gold), though the amp draw will be 10.8 at least each, need to go on separate outlets (not ideal) and the 1500va battery backup certainly wont cut it(just skip battery), cost is $300 higher than originally planned but spec wise its safe (or just wait and swap out the 850's in a year if this all still is viable and i get the extra cards) edit: another yt vid uses 1200watts x 2 as well.
http://www.nextwarehouse.com/item/?2895973

I guess i could consider two 1200 watt server psu's (though this might be complicated or not), but the noise level could be high (cost 200 vs 600) (i dont think this is 1200 watt on 120v though), so for me on 120v i guess its going to be the seasonic, brings it to question of the gold vs platinum efficiency model choices and splitting the plugs over two 20amp circuits, no battery backup etc
 
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Usually mining power usage does not equal gaming peak TDP, I don't think you took that into consideration. Also, do you really need to buy a scalper priced mining frame etc? The whole point of mining is to ROI quickly, that frame cost $50-60 in a bear market. I would rethink this unless you're just doing it for fun.
 
Usually mining power usage does not equal gaming peak TDP, I don't think you took that into consideration. Also, do you really need to buy a scalper priced mining frame etc? The whole point of mining is to ROI quickly, that frame cost $50-60 in a bear market. I would rethink this unless you're just doing it for fun.
I wanted worst case if settings get mucked so I figured 1200 or 1300x 2 was right

I got that frame for less via ebay partially fun but partially at least partial profit
 
Planning for worst case scenario IE / driver crash cards running full power is the safe way to go and how i usually think about my power supply needs as well, but a 3080 isn't 350 + riser power the riser power is included in that 350w envelope so the card for example would probably be pulling 50-60 watts from the riser (max) and the remainder from the PCIe connectors totaling 350w. Here is my 3080 tuned to 240w as an example of this: as you can see the 240w load is split between the pcie slot and the 3x 8 pins on this particular model: Usually when you have cards that require 2x 8 pin you pretty much naturally end up in the 50-75% safe load of your Power Supply by the time you run out of 8 pin power connections from the PSU unless you start splitting them which generally is not a great idea for anything besides the risers because as you see my 8 pin #2 in this card is pulling over 100w so splitting that would not be a great idea. As Legcramp says you should really start cheap / smart. instead of a buying an expensive mining frame you can buy a cheap wire shoe rack and hang your GPUs with zipties or build a really simple wood frame as another example. during the last bull market i picked up a metal mining frame and a box of 15 used risers for $50 locally from someone on FB marketplace who's son had tried out mining and then got out of it. 6 months from how you will likely see similar deals. Also just because the mining frame doesn't have an official spot for a 3rd PSU doesn't mean you can't jam one in somewhere or even let it sit on the floor if needed is completely fine.

1622478027075.png
 
Planning for worst case scenario IE / driver crash cards running full power is the safe way to go and how i usually think about my power supply needs as well, but a 3080 isn't 350 + riser power the riser power is included in that 350w envelope so the card for example would probably be pulling 50-60 watts from the riser (max) and the remainder from the PCIe connectors totaling 350w. Here is my 3080 tuned to 240w as an example of this: as you can see the 240w load is split between the pcie slot and the 3x 8 pins on this particular model: Usually when you have cards that require 2x 8 pin you pretty much naturally end up in the 50-75% safe load of your Power Supply by the time you run out of 8 pin power connections from the PSU unless you start splitting them which generally is not a great idea for anything besides the risers because as you see my 8 pin #2 in this card is pulling over 100w so splitting that would not be a great idea. As Legcramp says you should really start cheap / smart. instead of a buying an expensive mining frame you can buy a cheap wire shoe rack and hang your GPUs with zipties or build a really simple wood frame as another example. during the last bull market i picked up a metal mining frame and a box of 15 used risers for $50 locally from someone on FB marketplace who's son had tried out mining and then got out of it. 6 months from how you will likely see similar deals. Also just because the mining frame doesn't have an official spot for a 3rd PSU doesn't mean you can't jam one in somewhere or even let it sit on the floor if needed is completely fine.

View attachment 361493
Thanks so given the worst case setting failure with 6 cards n the board n misc what wattage do you feel that levels out at

I still think it exceeds 850watt x 2 at 80 pct efficient

With the 6700k and misc I don't see this being below 2000watt total

Since the 1300 watt psus are in stock they seemed the best choice
The Amp pull per psu might be 8.3 if even worst case 11 plus each but probably never, I'm thinking it might be safe on the same outlet or circuit as long as 20 amp
 
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Thanks so given the worst case setting failure with 6 cards n the board n misc what wattage do you feel that levels out at

I still think it exceeds 850watt x 2 at 80 pct efficient

With the 6700k and misc I don't see this being below 2000watt total

Since the 1300 watt psus are in stock they seemed the best choice
The Amp pull per psu might be 8.3 if even worst case 11 plus each but probably never, I'm thinking it might be safe on the same outlet or circuit as long as 20 amp

Yeah for 6x 3080 you are going to want 3 x PSU in the 750-850w range or 2x 1200-1300w PSU's and even at tuned settings this is starting to push the limits of what I would want to pull from the wall on a 15a circuit but its still pretty safe as long as you are splitting it over a couple of wall plugs 240x 6 + ~ 50-100w for system / fans = ~ 1540 w(+10% at the wall for efficiency loss from the PSU converting to DC) Would be better if you could run this off a 20a circuit or split over 2 15a but as long at you don't let it run for days with max settings due to crashed drivers a single 15a circuit should be OK. I generally like to try to pull no more than 1200-1400 from my 15a circuits on a day to day basis running 24/7
 
Yeah for 6x 3080 you are going to want 3 x PSU in the 750-850w range or 2x 1200-1300w PSU's and even at tuned settings this is starting to push the limits of what I would want to pull from the wall on a 15a circuit but its still pretty safe as long as you are splitting it over a couple of wall plugs 240x 6 + ~ 50-100w for system / fans = ~ 1540 w(+10% at the wall for efficiency loss from the PSU converting to DC) Would be better if you could run this off a 20a circuit or split over 2 15a but as long at you don't let it run for days with max settings due to crashed drivers a single 15a circuit should be OK. I generally like to try to pull no more than 1200-1400 from my 15a circuits on a day to day basis running 24/7
I guess each wall outlet would need to be it's own circuit though

That reminded me of the 3 psu option I can simply wait then put another 850 that I just ordered 2 of into the mix if assume ideally the exact same model? A tuakku I've seen some mix different wattage sizes so this is prob fine. The gold 850s weren't that expensive add in s other share2psu adapter (somehow)

I'm actually not positive the next warehouse 1300s are actually in stock either
 
Yeah i was trying to keep costs minimal on the psu..

However, i dont think 850 watts is enough if i have dual 3080's and a 1080ti? Most online calculators put the total (max worst case if not throttled) load at 1175 (meaning need a gold 1300 watt psu, or dual psu).

Im leaning towards the dual psu with the adapter to connect the two ($129 per 850 watt psu).. but still unsure and concerned about safety with two psus? Also how do you sync turning on the system with two psus (let alone without a power button, i guess short the pin so always on if the psu's are on)?
*i ended up reading reviews on the other adapter, this one seemed more solid https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08F9WGLP2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I guess option b i could spend slightly more and try this corsair 1200 watt: https://www.newegg.com/corsair-hx-series-hx1200-cp-9020140-na-1200w/p/N82E16817139205?quicklink=true
If you’re spending this much money, at this stage of the eth cycle, you may want to consider selling the hardware and just buying the coin.
 
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