Exhibit A in "PC industry its own worst enemy": $249 8.5 hr Haswell based Chromebook

P

pxc

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 22, 2000
Messages
33,064
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...-launched-thinner-longer-lasting-and-haswell/

JXyASGw.jpg


Specs:
Intel Celeron 2955U (Haswell-based, 1.4GHz, dual core, 2MB L3, 15W TDP)
4GB memory
16GB SSD
11.6" 1366x768 LCD (LED backlit)
802.11abgn / BT4.0 / HD Webcam
HDMI / USB 2.0 / USB 3.0 ports
2.76 lbs
8.5 hour battery life
Chrome OS
$249 ($240 at amazon for preorder)

Since it's Acer, there's a good chance a Windows version may be available at a higher price, due to OS and storage requirements, more in line with what an "Ultrabook lite" type of system would sell for ($349-$379, minimum). That's the problem. There is no cost reason this couldn't ship with Windows and a minimally appropriate sized HDD or SSD for $299 or less, besides arbitrary limitations by MS and hardware makers to protect regular laptop systems.

It's certainly a losing battle these OEMs (and MS clinging to its crack-like Windows revenue stream) fight against themselves in the consumer space against tablets, and other devices like this Chromebook which offer similar functionality.
 
Not sure I understand the issue. Microsoft should operate as a charity and give away Windows?
 
Ravynmagi said:
Not sure I understand the issue. Microsoft should operate as a charity and give away Windows?
Click to expand...
No, but the pricing is out of line to make Windows computers price competitive against threats which are eating away at the low end. The $30 bundle of Windows 8 and Office MS made earlier this year has severe limitations, particularly of screen size and memory. I don't care about the business restricted licenses, since MS isn't really having many problems there, so I'm not complaining about that part of it.

For a system clearly made for consumers, a segment where Windows is dropping like a rock, those old pricing models for the OS is just making things worse: OEMs can't make competitive systems even if they wanted to. Clearly OEMs are deciding that Android and Chrome OS are avenues to pursue while Windows is falling in the consumer segment.
 
I still believe things are a little early for Chrome OS from a wide consumer adoption perspective, but I also think it's something Microsoft should be paying particularly close attention to and probably isn't. This Chromebook is certainly cheap and attractive from a hardware perspective, but it's not clear to me that it's worth its asking price as a full product package.

I suspect Microsoft will take some sort of action against Chromebooks when they feel the timing is right. If I were a betting man, though, I would bet that Microsoft would try to retaliate through their browser by not implementing newer web technologies that give web apps the ability to behave more like their desktop counterparts in a move to prevent their widespread adoption. They're less likely to eat away at their Windows revenue stream by reducing costs to OEMs and lifting restrictions than to retaliate through other means.
 
I'm thinking about buying one and using it as a XBMC HTPC with ubuntu and a built-in UPS.

Just pop in a USB gigabit ethernet port and maybe a 32GB USB3 flash drive (16GB is really tight) and it should be good to go.

Only thing stopping me is steambox announcements. If I can get a steambox for $600 that'll also play PC games, I'll pay the extra money.
 
Why is Windows overpriced? Just because Apple can sell OSX for cheaper? That's because they make their profits from overpriced MacBooks, accesories, lock in, forced obsolescence etc.

Android as a desktop OS is and always will be a joke. There are 2 options - OSX and Windows, and we all know which one is cheaper.
 
pxc said:
There is no cost reason this couldn't ship with OSX and a minimally appropriate sized HDD or SSD for $299 or less, besides arbitrary limitations by Apple.
Click to expand...

There, fixed it. Still think that's a valid point?
 
wonderfield said:
Chrome OS and Android are different things.
Click to expand...
OK...

I'm not sure anyone here was confused by the distinction, so I don't get your post.

MrCrispy said:
There, fixed it. Still think that's a valid point?
Click to expand...
Yellow monkey rogue pie. That makes about as much sense as your "fix".

If you need it explained, there is not a non-OS X laptop made (by Apple, since that's the only official hardware supported by OS X) for $249 which could benefit from a the same situation this Chromebook faces with Windows. So nonsense aside, you have no point based in reality.
 
There's no need to compare, they are clearly separate products which I believe will get unified at some point. I can concede that may not happen, maybe we shouldn't compare them today - the point was they both run a very limited set of apps and can't replace a desktop OS.

But you can replace Android with ChromeOS/Chromium in my original post, the point still stands.
 
pxc said:
If you need it explained, there is not a non-OS X laptop made (by Apple, since that's the only official hardware supported by OS X) for $249 which could benefit from a the same situation this Chromebook faces with Windows. So nonsense aside, you have no point based in reality.
Click to expand...

I don't need anything explained to me.

OSX will run fine on this hardware, maybe needs some minor driver updates. That's why hackintoshes work.

Apple doesn't support OSX on other hardware to protect their revenue stream.
MS charges a license fee for Windows to protect their revenue stream.

They could both run on this with not much extra work. Its the exact same situation.
 
Microsoft could drop the license fee a little. Wouldn't hurt at least.
 
Remind me again why someone dragged Apple and Android into this thread. It'a only 18 posts in and I'm already lost.

This machine is not aimed at someone who thinks ChromeOS is "a joke." It's aimed at a consumer who does not actually utilize more functionality than ChromeOS provides (namely the ability to access internet resources through a browser). This customer does not actually care what OS the machine runs or what an operating system even is. You are looking at a scooter and wondering why there's no trailer hitch on it.
 
Kai said:
Microsoft could drop the license fee a little. Wouldn't hurt at least.
Click to expand...

Yes it would. Microsoft already learned this the hard way by discounting XP to get it into all those Netbooks years ago. The terrible hardware paired with the outdated OS made for a lackluster experience, and in the end it didn't buy them any mind-share against the competition because Android/iOS pulled an end-around on them via affordable tablets.

The sales of products in this category are cratering, mostly because it's a race to the bottom in terms of quality and OS selection. You have the problem that users in this particular market are either satisfied with their existing crappy hardware, or are so fed-up with the experience that they will never bay so little for a PC again. Thus, the two biggest OEMs in this market segment (Acer = ultra budget, Asus = budget) have seen their marketshare drop by almost half, with no hope to be found.

Most of the growth achieved this quarter is from OEMs who make large sales to corporations. That is the only place left where you'll find any new demand for more powerful PCs...the consumer market is saturated, except for the top-end. There is no growth in cheap PCs, so Microsoft would be VERY smart to maintain the PC as a premium product while it still can.
 
Last edited:
pxc said:
Since it's Acer, there's a good chance a Windows version may be available at a higher price, due to OS and storage requirements, more in line with what an "Ultrabook lite" type of system would sell for ($349-$379, minimum). That's the problem.
Click to expand...


Call it what it is. A Netbook.

You can't blame Microsoft for charging money for it's cash cow. It would epic stupid for them to give Windows away. They make most of their money selling Windows.

They could sell Windows RT for a cheap price since it is functionally limited, but it is still better than a netbook running a web browser.
 
It's not a netbook. Netbooks were severely underpowered, even for normal office/browsing tasks. This isn't. Dual-core haswell and 4GB RAM is not underpowered.

You might be able to find a refurb windows laptop for $250, but that's about it. Most low-end ones start around $350.

Also, MS makes most of its revenue from Office these days.
 
schizo said:
It's not a netbook. Netbooks were severely underpowered, even for normal office/browsing tasks. This isn't. Dual-core haswell and 4GB RAM is not underpowered.
Click to expand...

Processors do improve over time, but this is still essentially a netbook, even if it has a bit more grunt, it hardly matters as it runs a web browser.

Running a internet browser instead of an OS definitely qualifies this as a Netbook.
 
reasonable price, fast boot, everything a casual user could want. This is a good alternative for non-technical people. Think grandparents and kids. Samsung's Chromebook was hot, i'm curious to see if they will release an update with the Exynos 5420 and a similar form factor.

and btw, this isn't the first x86 based chromeOS device to come out.
 
Snowdog said:
Running a internet browser instead of an OS definitely qualifies this as a Netbook.
Click to expand...
Only if you completely redefine what a netbook is. The first netbook (asus eeepc) ran linux and most of the following models ran windows XP. Chromebooks are not netbooks, they're their own thing.

Netbooks were notable because they were 1) cheap and 2) slow. Many of the first and second generation chromebooks were both cheap and slow, so it's easy to confuse the two. This particular model is cheap but it's not slow. Dualcore 1.4Ghz haswell celeron is perfectly usable for day to day office/youtube/movie watching/browsing stuff.
 
schizo said:
Only if you completely redefine what a netbook is. The first netbook (asus eeepc) ran linux and most of the following models ran windows XP. Chromebooks are not netbooks, they're their own thing.

Netbooks were notable because they were 1) cheap and 2) slow. This is cheap, but it's not slow.
Click to expand...

It's not a netbook in that classic netbooks do more than support HTML technologies. Close cousin though. Seems like these devices are doing decently at the cheap end but you get so much more for just a few more dollars.
 
lol 16Gb its amazing how far backwards computing has gone. You could buy a 16 GB netbook for $300 5 years go with windows. And today this is news...
 
It is a netbook in spirit - the goal of netbooks was a cheap computer you could use for web browsing/email. Then web browsing became too demanding.

Buying a Chromebook won't let you do anything besides basic web apps from Google. To do anything more you have to upgrade the storage. And then you might as well buy a cheap Windows laptop, of which there are many many choices, and get a FAR more capable machine.
 
Go to newegg or amazon. Search for laptops under $300 and see how many you find that aren't refurbs or truly ancient, then compare them to this laptop. I think you'll find it competes quite nicely in that product category.

Of course if you throw in another hundred bucks, you can get a lot more computer. But that's a 33% increase.
 
So noone answered if this thing can run linux... I have a thinkpad tablet 2 and it is factory locked by intel to not to run anything but win8... if it could run Ubuntu, it would have been amazing, now this thing. It would be perfect, I would just do a light Linux install at couple gigs ( does not have to be ubuntu) , have 13+gigs of space + cloud, plus a small 32gb usb drive mounted.... yumm.
 
All the chromebooks can be put in developer mode and unlocked including the C710, no reason to think this would be any different. Only limiter is the 16GB of internal storage, but you can just use a USB3 flash drive, SDcard, or (most likely) open it up and replace with a 7mm SSD of your choice.
 
Andyk5 said:
So noone answered if this thing can run linux... I have a thinkpad tablet 2 and it is factory locked by intel to not to run anything but win8... if it could run Ubuntu, it would have been amazing, now this thing. It would be perfect, I would just do a light Linux install at couple gigs ( does not have to be ubuntu) , have 13+gigs of space + cloud, plus a small 32gb usb drive mounted.... yumm.
Click to expand...

Yes. ChromeOS is a Debian-based Linux distro. Every Chromebook before has been able to install stock Debian or another distro of your choice. No precedent to think this one would be any different.
 
But I thought they install it "on top" of the chrome OS where it does not run natively. I may be wrong but I think you boot in to Chrome OS and then run Linux like a front cover, almost like virtual machine
 
Andyk5 said:
But I thought they install it "on top" of the chrome OS where it does not run natively. I may be wrong but I think you boot in to Chrome OS and then run Linux like a front cover, almost like virtual machine
Click to expand...

It's possible to install Debian (or another distro) as a chroot or natively to existing Chromebooks, depending on your preference. We won't know exactly what the deal with this one is until it is released, but it's safe to assume you will be able to install another Linux distro on it.
 
What? I dont get the argument. Chrome OS is far from Windows, it is really just a beefed up web browser.

Microsoft does not profit directly from other online services (Ads in google's case) or the hardware, hence there is a licensing cost for it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top