EVGA will no longer do business with NVIDIA

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Okatis said:
Which model though? As the XC3 in general was known (at least leading up to this gen) to be louder while the FTW3 quieter. Was the reason I opted for the latter (though not a 3090).
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Specifically talking about the FTW3 Ultra model. But after reading your post I realized it did sound wrong, so I looked into it. Now I believe my card is particularly loud (poor binning?). According to reviews the 3090 Ti is supposed to be much louder than the 3090, but my EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 Ultra is definitely a lot quieter. I've tested it in another PC too (airflow shouldn't be an issue as each PC has 6 Noctua case fans). I don't own the Founders Edition, but the couple I've tested at the shop sounded less intense to me. Upon reflection the most likely explanation is that regardless of airflow, the amount of heat being dumped into the case adds up. If you have an air CPU heatsink - it will inevitably help raise that temperature, which will also raise the speed of the case fans. What I'm trying to say is that it's not an insignificant amount of heat being dumped into the case. If I take off the limit on my Noctua 3000RPM fans, my PC turns into some sort of scary jet engine with four of them going at full speed! Still, if I ever have the opportunity to score a FE for a good price, I think I will give it a shot.

So the discrepancy may not be as big as I originally thought, but I still maintain that the trend of increasing power requirements as well as heat output from each generation puts unfair pressure on the partners and creates a sense of pessimism that things won't get better in the near future. It seems like NVIDIA gets to plan out their fancy coolers while partners are just re-using or expanding upon the same dated designs. And I don't know if you've ever seen the EVGA 3090 Ti FTW3 in person, but it's ugly as sin. It's a 2.5 slot cooler than leaves a fat gap in the back of your PC case. It just feels like a bad joke - a flagship card with a completely half-assed cooler design. Amd I wouldn't be surpised if that's all that EVGA could possibly scrape together.
 
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This is a level of suck of epic proportions. I’ve always bought EVGA cards.
 
I keep seeing some say that EVGA as a brand still has mind share. And while true, I'm also seeing a lot are forgetting that this mind share they have is because of their GPUs. Without their GPUs, their mind share will quickly go out the window. Many (if not down right most) won't give a flying eff about EVGA within a year if their business shrinks to whatever is left of their product catalog.
 
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ZeroBarrier said:
I keep seeing some say that EVGA as a brand still has mind share. And while true, I'm also seeing a lot are forgetting that this mind share they have is because of their GPUs. Without their GPUs, their mind shre will quickly go out the window. Many (if not down right most) wont give a flying eff about EVGA within a year if their business shrinks to whatevers left of their product catalog.
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Not necessarily. Look at Corsair. They pivoted from a RAM exclusive company to other things and are arguably more known for the other things now.
 
If you had to choose between ASUS or MSI which would would you pick I had a 1080ti MSI card but didn't care for it was a founders edition.
Made my eyes hurt after a while the sole reason why I always went EVGA.
 
Comixbooks said:
If you had to choose between ASUS or MSI which would would you pick I had a 1080ti MSI card but didn't care for it was a founders edition.
Made my eyes hurt after a while the sole reason why I always went EVGA.
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I've heard good things about the fan profiles of Asus cards, so I would go with them if noise levels are of concern. On the other hand, I've never had a faulty or defective piece of MSI hardware, and I can't say the same regarding my purchases of Asus hardware since I've received a faulty motherboard once before. I'd personally go with Asus if I was buying right now for my main rig.
 
Comixbooks said:
If you had to choose between ASUS or MSI which would would you pick I had a 1080ti MSI card but didn't care for it was a founders edition.
Made my eyes hurt after a while the sole reason why I always went EVGA.
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Depends on criteria for people I would think. I have good RMA options in my country regardsless of what vendor I choose). :)

I´ve had two MSI 1080 gaming X cards (among the best performance/noise cards for their generation) and one Asus Rog Strix 2080 TI (probably the best performance/noise card I´ve had, perhaps a Gainward Phantom gtx 570 I had was better, too long ago).

No apples to apples there, but all I can say is that the 1080s and the 2080 TI still runs well today. I reapplied thermal paste on the 1080s, but that was more a part of maintanance. None of them looks good in my taste. I prefer the more neutral look of the founders edition to be honest.

Next generation will be picked by the same criteria, so whatever brand that gives a decent noise/performance ratio will be good. Doesn´t even have to be Nvidia GPU, as long as the card serves my needs.
 
Comixbooks said:
If you had to choose between ASUS or MSI which would would you pick I had a 1080ti MSI card but didn't care for it was a founders edition.
Made my eyes hurt after a while the sole reason why I always went EVGA.
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Never had an Asus card that I can remember, but have had good luck with MSI and Gigabyte. My old 1080 Ti Duke is still going in a friends rig now. I usually go with a card not made by a motherboard manufacturer, but now those are going to be hard to come by unless you go Zotac or PNY (those come to mind). I have never had an issue with a video card for the over twenty plus years I have building PC's, with the exception of an ATI card back in the day, so I have no problem branching out to try something different. I do tend to stick with Nvidia.
 
Lakados said:
Everything else they make is made by somebody else they just put an EVGA sticker overtop of it and then charge a 300% markup on it. Why not just save yourself the sticker and buy it from the other guys?

Their PSU's are just rebranded Superflower's.
Their Fan's are just rebranded Power Logic's.
Their AiO's are just rebranded Asetek's.
You can get them from anywhere, the only thing they actually made and designed was their GPU's so yeah they are going to have slimmer margins because there is actual work involved there. Ditching that the only thing they have remaining is a recognized brand name and a warehouse filled with stickers to put on other people's parts you can buy cheaper elsewhere. I mean I can't speak for everybody here but their brand name isn't worth that much to me that I would pick their branded parts over the slew of others selling those same rebranded parts for less.
Maybe they start to expand but they are going to have to work fast, People's memory is short and if they are going to start designing their own parts from scratch that takes time and talent they haven't publically started making a move on.
This whole announcement sounds to me like somebody who wants to quit and make as much of a scene as they can on their way out the door.
But also remember people bought EVGA parts because they were buying an EVGA GPU, now they don't have that to steer that traffic, at this point what do they have to make you want their fans, or coolers, over that of a Thermaltake, Coolermaster, or Corsair. The EVGA reputation was founded on "They make great GPUs and have an awesome warranty", not "hell yeah their fans are kickass!"
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Their GPUS are also manufactured in China.
All they are doing is sticking and boxing GPUs here as well.
 
alxlwson said:
Lmao, that's a stretch.
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No its just the truth. I know people would like to think they are American made but they are just not. If you have a EVGA card go pop the fan off and see where the PCB is made. I'll wait.
Its going to say made in China on it. That is where they are made. As a Canadian I can tell you when they get shipped to Canada country of origin is listed as China.

Now Canadian customs only accepts one country as country of origin... so there may be assembly going in the the US. But the majority if not the entire production is happening in China.
 
ChadD said:
No its just the truth. I know people would like to think they are American made but they are just not. If you have a EVGA card go pop the fan off and see where the PCB is made. I'll wait.
Its going to say made in China on it. That is where they are made. As a Canadian I can tell you when they get shipped to Canada country of origin is listed as China.
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They aren't just slapping a sticker on a purchased-in product.
EVGA designs their own PCB, designs their own coolers, their own software. They have a freaking ton of engineering prowess. Using someone to manufacture the product that you designed is not the same as just buying something from another OEM and putting your sticker on it.

So yes, stretch.
 
alxlwson said:
They aren't just slapping a sticker on a purchased-in product.
EVGA designs their own PCB, designs their own coolers, their own software. They have a freaking ton of engineering prowess. Using someone to manufacture the product that you designed is not the same as just buying something from another OEM and putting your sticker on it.

So yes, stretch.
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OK if you think so. They contract foxcon to produce GPUs... with schematics they get from Nvidia (cause as they complain Nvidia doesn't allow much deviation anymore) the GPU/Ram come from Taiwan, the caps and other bits come from China, fans and shrouds China... from all accounts they leave China fully assembled.

I'm not suggesting EVGA does nothing... but Nvidia sure believes they are useless and heck they are feeling useless which is one of the reasons they are tapping out. Nvidia doesn't really allow them to do much tweaking to firmware and the like anymore. I'm not saying they are incapable, but yes part of their complaint and leaving the business is because they can't do any of that stuff anymore.

Lakados said rightly that almost everything else they make is manufactured by OEMs in China. I don't disagree it just also describes their GPU business. Everything they make is produced by manufacturers in China. Almost everyone at EVGA in the US are sales related staff. They have more people working in their outsourcing dept then they do in engineering.
 
ChadD said:
OK if you think so. They contract foxcon to produce GPUs... with schematics they get from Nvidia (cause as they complain Nvidia doesn't allow much deviation anymore) the GPU/Ram come from Taiwan, the caps and other bits come from China, fans and shrouds China... from all accounts they leave China fully assembled.

I'm not suggesting EVGA does nothing... but Nvidia sure believes they are useless and heck they are feeling useless which is one of the reasons they are tapping out.

Lakados said rightly that almost everything else they make is manufactured by OEMs in China. I don't disagree it just also describes their GPU business. Everything they make is produced by manufacturers in China. Almost everyone at EVGA in the US are sales related staff. They have more people working in their outsourcing dept then they do in engineering.
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Got it!!! I'll make sure to tell AMD and nVidia that because they are fabless chipmakers that they too fit under your definition of not really doing much of anything.

EVGA doesn't make reference-design boards. Their boards are their own designs. Outside of a few small requirements, the card vendors are free to use reference designs or make their own.

You are really grasping.
 
alxlwson said:
Got it!!! I'll make sure to tell AMD and nVidia that because they are fabless chipmakers that they too fit under your definition of not really doing much of anything.

EVGA doesn't make reference-design boards. Their boards are their own designs. Outside of a few small requirements, the card vendors are free to use reference designs or make their own.

You are really grasping.
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Did you not listen to any of the media types that talked to their CEO.

Yes they used to have more freedom and they did play with designs. They did do interesting and unique things.

Nvidia the last two generations have locked that stuff down. The third party GPUs are little different from Nvidias core design anymore. They are not allowed to "innovate" as the EGA CEO said.

They also have limitations from Nvidia on firmware changes. Sure they can still slightly tweak frequency envelopes... but they have limits on that now imposed by Nvidia. Also this is determined by fairly strict power delivery again imposed by Nvidia. There is no more doing creative things with Nvidia GPUs.

To be fair I can see Nvidias point in that. Control allows Nvidia to determine product segmentation. (no more hot rodded mid range parts with firmware and power delivery made to goose it to higher end part territory) No more high end cards that run so close to the extremes that they burn out years before they should. ect ect I see Nvidias side and they are not wrong either. Also Nvidia wants to make 3090 level cards now... they don't want third parties taking 3080 chips and basically turning them into 3080 +1s when they are trying to make that an official product segment. Last thing Nvidia wants is a 3080 EVGA super TI, that benchmarks the same as a standard 3090 but sells for in between money. Nvidia wants to determine their line up.

For EVGA 3000s where a train wreck. Nvidia doesn't trust them or any other AIB to not spill the beans early. With 3000s they where so tight on things that it sounds like EVGA (and others) got revision schematics for 3000 cards after they already had finished product in the pipe. All the controversy over power deliver on those parts (and the reason so many early 3000s died) was created by Nvidia not being a little bit honest with their partners... they sent them schematics that called for X amount of power then decided at the last min that they needed to set clocks higher to ensure they didn't loose their #1 bragging rights. If AIBs like EVGA had been told it was possible those things would be going up... and where not told (this is the range you are allowed to set your firmware too) they would probably have choose different parts in their design. EVGA had to honor a ton of RMAs... not to mention the general hit to their name thanks to Nvidias last min shenanigans. Just a few posts up people are blaming them for using shitty cheap parts... Nvidia shifted their freq up at the last min, to make matters even more frustrating for companies like EVGA Nvidia CLEARLY knew they might do that cause on their own boards they accounted for it.

Its not shocking EVGA wants out of the Nvidia business. I am not slagging them, they are capable of more then they have been doing the last few Nvidia generations... but with the changes in the GPU market (AMD and Intel will be just as controlling.. just look at the way AMD handles MOBO Bios they don't allow messing with things anymore either) just don't allow for the creativity we used to get from AIB companies. So if going forward they are basically just an import company... why choose to deal with GPUs which are high risk, for almost no profit at all, and have a strict overlord like Nvidia demanding you jump through hoops while also competing directly against you. If your going to import... may as well import the best of the best Power supplies, coolers, and other things and sticker them. lol
 
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NightReaver said:
I wish they would do this. They flipflop on oem.

G6 went to Seasonic, while the new G7 units went back to FSP...
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I have heard that... I have also heard they have switched OEM with the same part numbers. That is frustrating.
 
ChadD said:
I have heard that... I have also heard they have switched OEM with the same part numbers. That is frustrating.
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I've also beard xfx stopped making gpus. Waiting on confirmation from that poster....oh that's you.
 
The future of PC gaming is SOCs for what we own and cloud for the actual work. This has been set in stone for some time now and everything is moving towards it. PC gaming will go full cloud before consoles. Oh well. Good on EVGA for getting out quick.
 
ZeroBarrier said:
I keep seeing some say that EVGA as a brand still has mind share. And while true, I'm also seeing a lot are forgetting that this mind share they have is because of their GPUs. Without their GPUs, their mind share will quickly go out the window. Many (if not down right most) won't give a flying eff about EVGA within a year if their business shrinks to whatever is left of their product catalog.
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Corsair or EVGA PSU comes down to price per watt. I'll choose a ASUS mobo over EVGA, and I'll choose Logitech IO over EVGA.
So yes for me, their GPUs made me a repeat customer.
realworld said:
I wonder if eVGA will sell 3rd party coolers for the 4000 series. A hybrid cooler for the FE cards should interest a good amount of folks.
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That's a great idea. Their margins would be high and still sell millions of them.
 
ChadD said:
Their GPUS are also manufactured in China.
All they are doing is sticking and boxing GPUs here as well.
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That's true of everybody though so I can't really hold that against them though, at least they were putting effort into their PCB design and component selection. Though I have to wonder how much of that effort was still necessary, there was a time when the default cards were noticeably inferior to the custom ones, that really isn't true anymore and the stock PCB design and components have really stepped up. Sadly for EVGA though I have to imagine that the tariffs really bit them in the butt disproportionately hard.
 
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Lakados said:
That's true of everybody though so I can't really hold that against them though, at least they were putting effort into their PCB design and component selection. Though I have to wonder how much of that effort was still necessary, there was a time when the default cards were noticeably inferior to the custom ones, that really isn't true anymore and the stock PCB design and components have really stepped up. Sadly for EVGA though I have to imagine that the tariffs really bit them in the butt disproportionately hard.
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Wasn't the tariff only like $35?
 
ChadD said:
Why did they choose that solution though ? Was it because they where saving a few pennies. Or was it because Nvidia gave them schematics... and then weeks before launch updated them. That entire launch was a Nvidia Cluster... and shows why EVGA would rather not deal with them. Nvidia trusted them so little it became very hard to do their jobs properly.
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Does EVGA do any testing to see these problems? I know a lot of people here worship EVGA, even though your warranty is probably worthless now, but it doesn't sound like EVGA cares to even plug in these cards and play a game.
I get what your saying... why not buy direct. In Nvidias case buying founders is probably going to be the only option after this next gen.
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Good, that makes it easier to install water blocks when all the cards are the same.
 
Lakados said:
That's true of everybody though so I can't really hold that against them though, at least they were putting effort into their PCB design and component selection. Though I have to wonder how much of that effort was still necessary, there was a time when the default cards were noticeably inferior to the custom ones, that really isn't true anymore and the stock PCB design and components have really stepped up. Sadly for EVGA though I have to imagine that the tariffs really bit them in the butt disproportionately hard.
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I agree. Tariffs probably put the boots to their already thinning margins. I also don't hold it against anyone building in China, its not like there is really any other option... if they actually tried to assemble boards in the US they would still be importing basically everything anyway chips ram caps even the blank pcbs. So why not just get it all put together there and deal with one import. Even if it was possible to handle the labour issues.

The founders coming up to parity is partially due to restrictions put on by Nvidia... as evga claims. But of course its also because Nvidia is just as capable of hiring Foxcon to make boards as EVGA or Asus is.

I do see Nvidias reasoning... the last two gens are much more consistent. No more having to wait for reviews to figure out which third party is building the screamer. They don't have to worry about some AIB releasing the 3070 Uber edition that runs at 3080 speed for less money and cannibalizes sales. I see both sides of this one... but I think EVGA is on to something. Nvidia doesn't really want AIBs... and frankly after a few generations now of spinning up their own sales force, they probably can say goodbye to most of them after the 4000s. Perhaps some of the really big players like Asus stick it out... cause they can probably afford to run a loss leading GPU division that hopefully sells enough MOBOs and other parts to make it worth it. I am not sure all the players will feel the same way. EVGA was unique in that their MOBO business was fairly small compared to Asus/Gigabyte/MSI. Those guys may be willing to loose on GPUs for awhiile. Maybe. I bet 4000s is the last gen for a few other companies as well.
 
ChadD said:
I agree. Tariffs probably put the boots to their already thinning margins. I also don't hold it against anyone building in China, its not like there is really any other option... if they actually tried to assemble boards in the US they would still be importing basically everything anyway chips ram caps even the blank pcbs. So why not just get it all put together there and deal with one import. Even if it was possible to handle the labour issues.

The founders coming up to parity is partially due to restrictions put on by Nvidia... as evga claims. But of course its also because Nvidia is just as capable of hiring Foxcon to make boards as EVGA or Asus is.

I do see Nvidias reasoning... the last two gens are much more consistent. No more having to wait for reviews to figure out which third party is building the screamer. They don't have to worry about some AIB releasing the 3070 Uber edition that runs at 3080 speed for less money and cannibalizes sales. I see both sides of this one... but I think EVGA is on to something. Nvidia doesn't really want AIBs... and frankly after a few generations now of spinning up their own sales force, they probably can say goodbye to most of them after the 4000s. Perhaps some of the really big players like Asus stick it out... cause they can probably afford to run a loss leading GPU division that hopefully sells enough MOBOs and other parts to make it worth it. I am not sure all the players will feel the same way. EVGA was unique in that their MOBO business was fairly small compared to Asus/Gigabyte/MSI. Those guys may be willing to loose on GPUs for awhiile. Maybe. I bet 4000s is the last gen for a few other companies as well.
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We are going to see a lot of made in India and Vietnam electronics soon.
 
DukenukemX said:
Does EVGA do any testing to see these problems? I know a lot of people here worship EVGA, even though your warranty is probably worthless now, but it doesn't sound like EVGA cares to even plug in these cards and play a game.

Good, that makes it easier to install water blocks when all the cards are the same.
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I don't disagree. Having every card the same might actually be a good thing for customers.

EVGA not testing though its the same issue every AIB had. They got specs from Nvidia... they said this is the Freq range you can set your firmware too, THIS is the power envelope you can feed to the GPU. YOU ARE NOT TO go over either or we fire you. Cause Nvidia has decided they don't want third parties selling over clocked cards no more. They don't want overclocked mid range cards eat sales of higher end cards. With 3000.... its well documented that a month or so before launch Nvidia got their hands on some Next gen AMD parts, and shit themselves. They where going to have a card that was going to be = and perhaps if people looked at the "wrong" games actually >. So they decided to up the clocks and power delivery over the spec. (Which I think we can assume they thought they might do but didn't trust companies like EVGA to say months early when they where designing their boards... hey just in case plan for an extra 50 watts of power just in case we change anything)

Perhaps going forward its better if Nvidia just handles it all themselves. It is a shitty way to deal with companies you are calling partners though. They let them all take the fall on the 3000 launch.
 
DukenukemX said:
even though your warranty is probably worthless now
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Again, as long as the company remains in business, they are legally required to honor their warranties.

If they fold, that’s a different story, but true for any company.
 
Lakados said:
25% of declared value
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Interesting.

Well when hidin' Biden temporarily(and retroactively) suspended the tariffs in March, I didn't see a $300 drop in GPU pricing.
The goal of the tariffs was to put pressure on manufacturers/OEM to bring it home.
So the Biden administration cancels the Trump tariffs, sends the tariffs already paid BACK to those that had been paying them since October last year(with no benefit back to the consumer that ultimately paid the higher price), and then last month passes a $45,000,000,000 unfunded CHIPS act. The tariffs could have paid for that over time. Did I sum this up right?
Fucking hell.
 
ChadD said:
I do see Nvidias reasoning... the last two gens are much more consistent. No more having to wait for reviews to figure out which third party is building the screamer. They don't have to worry about some AIB releasing the 3070 Uber edition that runs at 3080 speed for less money and cannibalizes sales. I see both sides of this one... but I think EVGA is on to something. Nvidia doesn't really want AIBs... and frankly after a few generations now of spinning up their own sales force, they probably can say goodbye to most of them after the 4000s. Perhaps some of the really big players like Asus stick it out... cause they can probably afford to run a loss leading GPU division that hopefully sells enough MOBOs and other parts to make it worth it. I am not sure all the players will feel the same way. EVGA was unique in that their MOBO business was fairly small compared to Asus/Gigabyte/MSI. Those guys may be willing to loose on GPUs for awhiile. Maybe. I bet 4000s is the last gen for a few other companies as well.
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In the past different AIB versions of the same card were essentially consistent, in terms of performance. A GTX 970 vs a GTX 970 from a different AIB would essentially perform the same. There would of course be some clocked a bit higher out of the box, but each AIB would have a few models to cover that.

I still see water cooled models for current GPUs out there so clearly the AIBs have some leeway with design. I'm just wondering how much these restrictions have made practical differences for actual customers? EVGA now has things like Black, XC3, XC3 Ultra, FTW Ultra, ect. for a single card type.
 
Randall Stephens said:
I’m already seeing stuff coming out of Vietnam. I think the shift started pretty quick.
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Yea. I have family members who are asking me to invest because they want to be 3rd party suppliers to Foxconn and Samsung in Vietnam. Got big real quick in Vietnam.
 
Flogger23m said:
In the past different AIB versions of the same card were essentially consistent, in terms of performance. A GTX 970 vs a GTX 970 from a different AIB would essentially perform the same. There would of course be some clocked a bit higher out of the box, but each AIB would have a few models to cover that.

I still see water cooled models for current GPUs out there so clearly the AIBs have some leeway with design. I'm just wondering how much these restrictions have made practical differences for actual customers? EVGA now has things like Black, XC3, XC3 Ultra, FTW Ultra, ect. for a single card type.
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My 3080 Ti FTW3! Ultra Gaming HydroCopper would like to have a word with with this notion of nVidia-limited designs.
The EVGA K|NGP|N editions rightfully bitchslap all notions of that false idea right out the window.
 
alxlwson said:
My 3080 Ti FTW3! Ultra Gaming HydroCopper would like to have a word with with this notion of nVidia-limited designs.
The EVGA K|NGP|N editions rightfully bitchslap all notions of that false idea right out the window.
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Nvidia did not appreciate those non limited designs from EVGA hence why EVGA pulled out.
 
alxlwson said:
My 3080 Ti FTW3! Ultra Gaming HydroCopper would like to have a word with with this notion of nVidia-limited designs.
The EVGA K|NGP|N editions rightfully bitchslap all notions of that false idea right out the window.
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What percentage of performance increase did those get over the FE 3080Ti?
 
I've bought GPUs almost exclusively from EVGA for something like 15 years now. Pretty crummy that Nvidia's margins have gone way up yet AIB makers are down to almost nothing. Something has to give.
 
I just sold several generations of EVGA cards last month as I rolled everyone over to Radeon 6000's. All my PSU's are EVGA.

I guess if this next gen is nVidia winning then I go to Asus Strix? What else is there?
 
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