EVGA will no longer do business with NVIDIA

[Chris_B]

The margins on nVidia GPUs are absolutely pathetic as far as I know, I have to wonder if they aren't prototyping RDNA cards. AMD has made for some interesting times of late.

I just hope AMD doesn't get as comfortable as Intel and nVidia did.

Considering AMD were teetering on the verge of bankruptcy a few times in the last 10 or so years i doubt they will be dumb enough to rest on their laurels quite so easily.

 

[whateverer]

well, we've still got two months before rtx 4090 actually ships - plenty of time to continue negotiations behind-the-scenes (and ship the reference cards)

if they ditch NVIDIA entirely, it would cost them way too much revenue - at the very least, expect them to follow xfx; but if so,I may have to grab a 3060 on clearance!

noting else in their product catalog has been anywhere as successful as GPUs\: not motherboards, psus or accessories

 

[Gideon]

I am sure EVGA made this decision with a plan in place, most likely into other products that have a much better margin on them. GPU market is a mess right now and likely for quite some time, so I cant blame them for wanting to ditch Nvidia or partner up with AMD or Intel.

 

[pgaster]

What happens if my 5 or 10 year warranty I paid is needed ?

Steve said that EVGA is keeping some stock of cards to cover this situation. Warranty is still good, or at least that is the plan.

 

[staknhalo]

Steve said that EVGA is keeping some stock of cards to cover this situation. Warranty is still good, or at least that is the plan.

People keep saying this and repeating it, just glossing over or not understanding the '10 years' part

You think they stockpiled 10 years of RMA inventory?

 

[DooKey]

People keep saying this and repeating it, just glossing over or not understanding the '10 years' part

You think they stockpiled 10 years of RMA inventory?

I would suggest EVGA is going to declare bankruptcy in the future and won't be around to provide support for a 10-year warranty.

 

[Axman]

You think they stockpiled 10 years of RMA inventory?

If they're still around, they'll have to cover it somehow, whether it's through partnering with other companies, or offering to buy back broken hardware.

 

[harmattan]

Echoing others, this is a shame. EVGA stood apart of other AIBs and are the gold standard in terms of service and general treatment of their customers, and their designs are second to none. They're the Lewis Hamilton among a bunch of Nikita Mazepins, the Jordan among players.

At the end of the day, I feel this is a natural outcome of the ecosystem nVidia has wrought -- one of control, cost reclamation, and bad communication. I wouldn't want to run a business in this environment, and wouldn't want to continue rewarding the party with the whip in its hand. Whether this abrupt move was "right" or not, it certainly sounds justified.

 

[SilverSliver]

Nvidia controls pricing, and determines how much they are allowed to make profit wise. In Nvidias mind EVGA adds little value and should be happy to make 8% margin on NVIDIA back.

I don't blame EVGA for tapping out at all. I would bet money that their smaller MOBO and Power supply units make more money, even though they are only 20% of sales.

I'm guessing it was nowhere near 8% margin. You can work with that sort of margin. I'm guessing EVGA was close to trading dollars, and with the video card sector slowing down and material costs going up - it was just too much risk, going forward, when you don't know fundamentals like, I dunno, how much can we sell the cards for before they come out. Especially so, looking at the gross revenue EVGA was pulling in, vs profit. Having copious amounts of flexible capital for operations is getting more and more expensive, with interest rates going up. I'm guessing the combination of everything was just too much.

 

[SilverSliver]

I would suggest EVGA is going to declare bankruptcy in the future and won't be around to provide support for a 10-year warranty.

That would be logical, and - plainly, unavoidable from what I can tell. They literally cannot keep enough cards on hand to cover the warranty requirements going back 5-10 years. Now, they cannot say they that is the plan - EVGA has to keep the value of their IP up as much as possible before a restructuring. If I was EVGA, at this juncture, this would be in preparation of restructure/sale and turning to higher margin products, ie like Corsair has done. EVGA would make money, hand over fist, if they applied their same warranty and support onto peripherals.

 

[ChadD]

I'm guessing it was nowhere near 8% margin. You can work with that sort of margin. I'm guessing EVGA was close to trading dollars, and with the video card sector slowing down and material costs going up - it was just too much risk, going forward, when you don't know fundamentals like, I dunno, how much can we sell the cards for before they come out. Especially so, looking at the gross revenue EVGA was pulling in, vs profit. Having copious amounts of flexible capital for operations is getting more and more expensive, with interest rates going up. I'm guessing the combination of everything was just too much.

Then to rub salt in the wounds they see Nvidia undercutting them with their own cards. I wouldn't put it past Nvidia to do insane things like say you can't sell x080 under X... then having founders edition cards selling under that limit.

 

[SilverSliver]

Then to rub salt in the wounds they see Nvidia undercutting them with their own cards. I wouldn't put it past Nvidia to do insane things like say you can't sell x080 under X... then having founders edition cards selling under that limit.

That's exactly what they did. NV even went as far to allow Best Buy to sell FE cards at the same price as them while undercutting every single AIB offering.

 

[ChadD]

That would be logical, and - plainly, unavoidable from what I can tell. They literally cannot keep enough cards on hand to cover the warranty requirements going back 5-10 years. Now, they cannot say they that is the plan - EVGA has to keep the value of their IP up as much as possible before a restructuring. If I was EVGA, at this juncture, this would be in preparation of restructure/sale and turning to higher margin products, ie like Corsair has done. EVGA would make money, hand over fist, if they applied their same warranty and support onto peripherals.

If EVGA is making enough money on other products... they can go a few different ways. One way is to simply make RMA so annoying and drawn out that people stop trying to get RMAs.
The other way they can go is to simply refund customers. I know that sounds crazy... but when you see how few people really try and RMA cards after 3 or 4 years its really isn't. I mean how many people are using high end GPUs for a decade ?

Even if their sales go down 50% (assuming they can increase their other products sales) if they are doing it at 50-60% margin instead of single digit. Ya refunding a few GPU customers 3 or 4 years down the road is nothing.

 

[Lakados]

People keep saying this and repeating it, just glossing over or not understanding the '10 years' part

You think they stockpiled 10 years of RMA inventory?

Yeah, warranty is good till the end of 2022, perhaps for the first few months of 2023 then you're on your own.

 

[Lakados]

That would be logical, and - plainly, unavoidable from what I can tell. They literally cannot keep enough cards on hand to cover the warranty requirements going back 5-10 years. Now, they cannot say they that is the plan - EVGA has to keep the value of their IP up as much as possible before a restructuring. If I was EVGA, at this juncture, this would be in preparation of restructure/sale and turning to higher margin products, ie like Corsair has done. EVGA would make money, hand over fist, if they applied their same warranty and support onto peripherals.

I actually see EVGA as something Corsair would want to start hiring from at this point. There is talent there Corsair doesn't need the name but if they were to start hiring up some of the key staff members that would be completely different.

 

[ChadD]

Yeah, warranty is good till the end of 2022, perhaps for the first few months of 2023 then you're on your own.

They claim to be reserving stock for RMAs. If they run out my guess is they just offer people partial returns. Chalk it up to the cost of leaving the market.

 

[rinaldo00]

The only ones salty are the shareholders that Nvidia is desperately trying to appeal to, because Nvidia's stock has a lot more to go before it hits bottom. Nvidia doesn't care that they lost EVGA because Nvidia sells graphic cards themselves. EVGA doesn't care because they know the RTX 4000 series cards are barely an upgrade from the 3000 series, while also being double or triple the price of the used cards. Which means nobody in their right mind will buy them. EVGA is doing a smart move and they're getting out while the getting is good.

What happened to rumors like this?
NVIDIA's RTX 4090 Around Twice as Fast as the RTX 3090 in Leaked Benchmark
https://www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidi...lagship,performance as its Ampere predecessor.

 

[Lakados]

They claim to be reserving stock for RMAs. If they run out my guess is they just offer people partial returns. Chalk it up to the cost of leaving the market.

Yeah, they aren't going to reserve much stock, legally they only need to keep 90 days to a year's worth of RMA cards on hand after that they are in the clear.

There is also the fun thing that they may not need to now honor the idea of Transferred Limited Warranties aka second-hand purchases, if EVGA was like all the other card manufacturers and was selling directly to the miners who are now dumping a lot of modified heavily used cards on the market then not having to deal with those alone is worth the decision.

 

[WilyKit]

Pretty sure Han owns the entire company. The board literally cannot get rid of him. Also, if 80% of your business is operating at a loss and it is quite literally impossible to get any assurance that it will ever be profitable again it's not exactly smart to keep investing massive sums of money into developing those products or continuing a relationship that was already stretched to a breaking point.

Well if he’s top dog they’ll go the way of 3dfx, sadly. I don’t see their PSU or motherboard sectors keeping the company relevant or afloat For the long run. Maybe they can keep above water for the duration of Ada until things normalize and get back into the market, that’s about their only chance for survival If they’re abandoning the GPU market. If they’re actually losing money with every GPU sale, the same would be true for every other AIB, I just done see that being the case, though I don’t doubt margins are horrendously low.

 

[Randall Stephens]

What happened to rumors like this?
NVIDIA's RTX 4090 Around Twice as Fast as the RTX 3090 in Leaked Benchmark
https://www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidias-rtx-4090-around-twice-as-fast-as-the-rtx-3090-in-leaked-benchmark-no-delay-in-launch-schedule-rumor/#:~:text=GamingGPUsNews-,NVIDIA's RTX 4090 Around Twice as Fast as the RTX,Delay in Launch Schedule [Rumor]&text=NVIDIA's next-gen Lovelace flagship,performance as its Ampere predecessor.

That shit is ALWAYS the rumor early on, then reality hits. I don't think anybody honestly thinks that whatever they designed last time around was so horribly un-optimized/shitty that they could pull something out of their asses 2 years later that was %100 better. But. But. But. It is fun to ride the hype train

 

[WilyKit]

What happened to rumors like this?
NVIDIA's RTX 4090 Around Twice as Fast as the RTX 3090 in Leaked Benchmark
https://www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidias-rtx-4090-around-twice-as-fast-as-the-rtx-3090-in-leaked-benchmark-no-delay-in-launch-schedule-rumor/#:~:text=GamingGPUsNews-,NVIDIA's RTX 4090 Around Twice as Fast as the RTX,Delay in Launch Schedule [Rumor]&text=NVIDIA's next-gen Lovelace flagship,performance as its Ampere predecessor.

Nothing happened, the guy you quoted is simply making up his own performance figures.

 

[Lakados]

Well if he’s top dog they’ll go the way of 3dfx, sadly. I don’t see their PSU or motherboard sectors keeping the company relevant or afloat For the long run. Maybe they can keep above water for the duration of Ada until things normalize and get back into the market, that’s about their only chance for survival If they’re abandoning the GPU market. If they’re actually losing money with every GPU sale, the same would be true for every other AIB, I just done see that being the case, though I don’t doubt margins are horrendously low.

Just because they don't want to sell the company in name, doesn't mean they don't want to sell off branding or other things, I think he is looking to retire and just doesn't want the name EVGA ending up in the hands of some Chinese conglomerate who would run the name into the ground for profits. But if they were to sell off the branding rights to K|NGP|N or FTW to other companies who already make a good product, then sit on staff as they are hired up by those same companies. They did say they don't plan on firing anybody but if they already know that they are going to get hired up by others then this all lines up, then EVGA can gracefully sunset and their owner can retire like he obviously wants too.

 

[Randall Stephens]

A quick browse of their website has most of their high end GPUs out of stock.

 

[hititnquitit]

I'd like to hear what the 10 year warranty terms actually consist of. Surely someone that paid for it rtfw?

 

[sfsuphysics]

Nvidia has been trying to get rid of their AIBs since they launched the first founders edition.

What trying? If they wanted to then dont sell to them, it would be pretty simple if they truly were trying to get away from them

 

[harmattan]

That shit is ALWAYS the rumor early on, then reality hits. I don't think anybody honestly thinks that whatever they designed last time around was so horribly un-optimized/shitty that they could pull something out of their asses 2 years later that was %100 better. But. But. But. It is fun to ride the hype train

View attachment 511103

"2x performance". Every single generation since nv40. It's Groundhog Day with this nonsense. The only time this close to happened was G80 (of which I had two EVGA 8800 GTXs) and the 9700.

Folks have short memories.

 

[Flogger23m]

It would be interesting to see if Corsair decided to get into the AIB business. They are also California based, and have been making some of the water cooled GPU coolers over the years for a couple of the AIBs like MSI. I know making the actual board is another animal altogether, but it would certainly be interesting if they did get into the market and hire EVGA's GPU employees. Doubt Corsair would be interested though.

 

[Randall Stephens]

I'd like to hear what the 10 year warranty terms actually consist of. Surely someone that paid for it rtfw?

That’s a damn good question. I bought it for $60 for my 3080. If it was dumb shit I caused (like frying my k40 Tesla) I wasn’t going to use it. But if it starting artifacting or the fans died, I’d use it. It’s evga, so long as you didn’t physically damage it in some way, they’d take care of you. Even if it wasn’t written in the warranty like that, as long as you were honest with them, they were honest with you. That’s why people are upset about this whole thing, CS like that is rare.

 

[OFaceSIG]

Let me break this down so you understand what's going on here. EVGA and pretty much all AIB's are responsible for the current GPU market situation due to greed. The PC gaming market is gonna hurt for many years due to this. EVGA isn't leaving because of Nvidia, but because the GPU market has no place else to go but down. They could go with AMD or with Intel, but they would rather step out of the market because they know that prices of GPU's have to go down dramatically to even get decent GPU sales. Of course they have low margins because Nvidia won't lower prices. Nvidia also owns the overwhelming majority of the GPU market, so going with AMD or Intel won't be profitable.

The only ones salty are the shareholders that Nvidia is desperately trying to appeal to, because Nvidia's stock has a lot more to go before it hits bottom. Nvidia doesn't care that they lost EVGA because Nvidia sells graphic cards themselves. EVGA doesn't care because they know the RTX 4000 series cards are barely an upgrade from the 3000 series, while also being double or triple the price of the used cards. Which means nobody in their right mind will buy them. EVGA is doing a smart move and they're getting out while the getting is good.

I don't disagree with the greed. But if they're are all equally greedy I will choose the company that treats their customers the best. On the Nvidia side that was EVGA hands down. So yes, I will miss them.

 

[staknhalo]

That’s a damn good question. I bought it for $60 for my 3080. If it was dumb shit I caused (like frying my k40 Tesla) I wasn’t going to use it. But if it starting artifacting or the fans died, I’d use it. It’s evga, so long as you didn’t physically damage it in some way, they’d take care of you. Even if it wasn’t written in the warranty like that, as long as you were honest with them, they were honest with you. That’s why people are upset about this whole thing, CS like that is rare.

Plus RMA with them usually meant free upgrade to the super/Ti /next gen version at least more times than not

 

[Axman]

That’s a damn good question.

As long as they're in business under the same structure, they will have to honor their warranties, whether it's repairs, replacement, including for-like replacement by other manufacturers, or refund.

They said they have a year's worth of inventory on hand, I'm sure they'll hold onto enough of it, based on their own warranty projections, to cover the next ten years of support, or they'll shutter.

 

[Lakados]

I'd like to hear what the 10 year warranty terms actually consist of. Surely someone that paid for it rtfw?

https://www.evga.com/warranty/graphics-cards/
I can't find anything here about a 10-year warranty

Current warranty:

• 3 Year Standard Limited Warranty Product Suffixes: -A1, -A2, -A3, -A4, -AR, -AX, -CR, -CX, -DX, -FR, -FX, -SG, -SX, -KR, -K1, -K2, -K3, -K4, -K5 -KB, -KA, -KF, -KH, -KL, -KM, -KP, -KS
• 2 Year Standard Limited Warranty Product Suffixes: -BH, -LA, -LE, -LR, -L1, -LX, -T1, -T2, -TR, -TX
• 1 Year Standard Limited Warranty Product Suffixes: -B1, -BR, -BX, -DR, -RX, -R2, -RL
• 90 Day Standard Limited Warranty Product Suffix: -RB

Purchased before May 25, 2018:

• Limited 3 Year Suffixes: -KR, -K1, -K2, -K3, -KB, -KA, -KF
• Limited 2 Year Suffixes: -LA, -LE, -LR, -L1, -LX, -T1, -T2, -TR, -TX
• Limited 1 Year Suffixes: -B1, -BR, -BX, -DR, -RX
• Limited 90 Day Suffix: -RB
• Limited Lifetime Warranties are available to the original owner on applicable parts if registered by the original owner within 30 days of the date of purchase. A valid proof of purchase is required from an EVGA authorized reseller to verify Limited Lifetime Warranty availability. For more details on the EVGA transferable warranty then please see the Transferable Warranty section below.
  
  • Limited Lifetime Suffixes: -A1, -A2, -A3, -A4, -AR, -AX, -CR, -CX, -DX, -FR, -FX, -SG, -SX

Purchased before July 1, 2011:

• Products purchased ON or AFTER November 1, 2006 MUST be registered within 30 days of the ORIGINAL DATE OF PURCHASE to receive EVGA's Free Extended Warranty. All products not registered within 30 days will ONLY receive a 1 year limited warranty.Refer to the following suffix guide to identify the length of your warranty:
  • Limited Lifetime: -A1, -A2, -A3, -A4, -AR, -AX, -CR, -CX, -DX, -FR, -FX, -SG, -SX
  • Limited 5 Year: -GR
  • Limited 3 Year: -K1, -K2, -KB, -KR (Before 1/1/11)
  • Limited 2 Year: -LA, -LE, -LR, -LX, -T1, -T2, -TR, -TX
  • Limited 1 Year: -B1, -BR*, -BX, -DR
  • Limited 90 Day: -RX (Recertified parts)

*Exception: 100-UT-0400-BR is covered under 30 day DOA only

 

[rinaldo00]

That shit is ALWAYS the rumor early on, then reality hits. I don't think anybody honestly thinks that whatever they designed last time around was so horribly un-optimized/shitty that they could pull something out of their asses 2 years later that was %100 better. But. But. But. It is fun to ride the hype train

View attachment 511103

But, but, but, this time they had FACTS! Node shrink, no longer with crappy Samsung fabs, back with TSMC, huge TDP to power all that performance!

 

[ChadD]

What trying? If they wanted to then dont sell to them, it would be pretty simple if they truly were trying to get away from them

Its not easy to go from ZERO... to supplying all the cards.
However you ease it in.
No no these are just for launch cards we aren't trying to compete with you, then move on to na na we are going to sell these all the time but don't worry we still need you.
Oh we know you guys where making 30%... but we think 20% is more fair.... OH now that we are your largest competitor what value do you bring us again ??? You will be happy with 10 points we think. OH you want rebates on chips you already bought ??? What cause we are underselling you. NO haha

Yes the plan all along has clearly been to push the AIB partners out. If the Asus, Gigabytes of the world are still making Nvidia GPUs after the 4000s I would be shocked. None of them make any money doing it. Even at the height of the Crypto boom the AIB where really not the companies making super bank. None of us should be shocked that some of them tried to sell direct.... their margins are terrible, there are very very few businesses that can survive on single digit margins.

 

[pgaster]

https://www.evga.com/warranty/graphics-cards/
I can't find anything here about a 10-year warranty

Me either. I just found an extended warranty page for 5 or 7 years. It seems these 5 and 7 are total years, not additional. The 5 year says it adds 2 years to the 3 year warranty. The 7 year says it adds 4 years to the 3 year.

https://www.evga.com/warranty/extended/

"Beginning on January 1st, 2022, products registered within 90 days of purchase with the part number suffixes -KR, -KB, -KL, and -KH, with the exception of peripherals or power supplies, will have the option to purchase an extended warranty within the regions of the Contiguous United States, Alaska, Hawaii, Canada, and Europe. The product must be purchased as new and from an authorized EVGA reseller to qualify for the Extended Warranty Program. The extended warranty will be available for purchase by the original purchaser within 90 days of the purchase date and a receipt from an authorized reseller is required to verify the purchase information and to validate the Extended Warranty purchase. Customers will have the option to purchase either the 5 year or 7 year warranty, extending the warranty by an additional 2 or 4 years, respectively."

"The optional 5 year extended warranty gives EVGA's acclaimed warranty service an additional 2 years to the registered product. The following prices are based on the MSRP (USD or Euros, depending on region) of your product:"
"The optional 7 year extended warranty gives EVGA's acclaimed warranty service an additional 4 years to the registered product. The following prices are based on the MSRP (USD or Euros, depending on region) of your product:"

 

[Randall Stephens]

Me either. I just found an extended warranty page for 5 or 7 years. It seems these 5 and 7 are total years, not additional. The 5 year says it adds 2 years to the 3 year warranty. The 7 year says it adds 4 years to the 3 year.

https://www.evga.com/warranty/extended/

"Beginning on January 1st, 2022, products registered within 90 days of purchase with the part number suffixes -KR, -KB, -KL, and -KH, with the exception of peripherals or power supplies, will have the option to purchase an extended warranty within the regions of the Contiguous United States, Alaska, Hawaii, Canada, and Europe. The product must be purchased as new and from an authorized EVGA reseller to qualify for the Extended Warranty Program. The extended warranty will be available for purchase by the original purchaser within 90 days of the purchase date and a receipt from an authorized reseller is required to verify the purchase information and to validate the Extended Warranty purchase. Customers will have the option to purchase either the 5 year or 7 year warranty, extending the warranty by an additional 2 or 4 years, respectively."

"The optional 5 year extended warranty gives EVGA's acclaimed warranty service an additional 2 years to the registered product. The following prices are based on the MSRP (USD or Euros, depending on region) of your product:"
"The optional 7 year extended warranty gives EVGA's acclaimed warranty service an additional 4 years to the registered product. The following prices are based on the MSRP (USD or Euros, depending on region) of your product:"

Here's what mine says

 

[Lakados]

View attachment 511133

Here's what mine says

it aslo says this.

EVGA reserves the right to cancel a customer’s Extended Warranty at any time and for any reason. EVGA reserves the right to change the terms of the Extended Warranty program at any time without notice. EVGA reserves the right to cancel the Extended Warranty program at any time and for any reason. VOID where prohibited.

 

[sfsuphysics]

it aslo says this.

EVGA reserves the right to cancel a customer’s Extended Warranty at any time and for any reason. EVGA reserves the right to change the terms of the Extended Warranty program at any time without notice. EVGA reserves the right to cancel the Extended Warranty program at any time and for any reason. VOID where prohibited.

So basically if they so desire "ha ha you're screwed, have a nice day"

 

[Randall Stephens]

it aslo says this.

EVGA reserves the right to cancel a customer’s Extended Warranty at any time and for any reason. EVGA reserves the right to change the terms of the Extended Warranty program at any time without notice. EVGA reserves the right to cancel the Extended Warranty program at any time and for any reason. VOID where prohibited.

Even if they cancelled, it, I'd still be out less cash than my first 3 marriages LOL

 

[Gideon]

People keep saying this and repeating it, just glossing over or not understanding the '10 years' part

You think they stockpiled 10 years of RMA inventory?

It's simple once they run out of stock they will refund you the current market value of your card and that ends their obligation. So if your card dies in 9 years from now, I am sure they can find 50 bucks to send you.