Every desirable video card model is now OOS tonight. Unreal.

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JMCB

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I sold my two 2080 Ti FE for about $950 a piece on eBay right when the crash was getting good. Glad I waited and didn't sell the two for less than a $1000 together. I feel for everyone right now trying to get a card. I did buy my 3090 from the secondary market.
 

Westwood

Supreme [H]ardness
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All items out of stock now. That place sometimes slips under the radar for a while.
Yep, but every day or other day they get stock it seems. For my 3070, I had enough time to run off and grab my wallet out of the safe to punch in my info since they don't do PayPal.
 

euskalzabe

[H]ard|Gawd
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You know, all this not being able to purchase a GPU is giving me plenty of time to think. The more I think about it, the worse value that this current gen of GPUs seem to me. Let's just look at one particular example of a modern game:

1611676190337.png


So, for someone like me on a 1060, looking to buy a 3060. The 1060 isn't included in this chart, but we know it performs slightly below a 980 Ti and similar to a 980, so we can go with just below the last value on this chart. So we know a 1060 gets ~55-60fps at the same 1440p as pictures above (let's be a bit generous and just go with 60fps). 4 years later, I'd expect to get 120fps at the same price to performance tier.

I paid $200 in 2017 for my 1060. Three and a half years later - meaning, 2 GPU architecture generations later, or 3-4 refreshes later - you'd normally expect to get about double the performance for about the same amount of money. Now move on 2021. A 3060 Ti gets you 122fps on Death Stranding at 1440p. So, double the performance... but it costs double the money at $399. Think about that for a second. You get ZERO performance uplift for the same money, at least in the mid-tier cards. Again, think about this for a second:

There has been no price/performance uplift, whatsoever, since 2017.

Let that sink in. At $400, a 3060 Ti is giving you the exact same value a 1060 gave you nearly 4 years ago, no more, no less. This is despite 2 complete architectures being released, that are supposed to be more efficient. Yet, the value equation has not changed one iota in 4 years. Now, this is not a complaint about prices going up. It has nothing to do with the difficulty of new features like DXR, Death Stranding does not support it, it's purely rasterization. The baffling fact then, I just realized today, is that there has been no performance improvement at the same price point... in 4 years now, since late 2016.

This might actually be the most powerful realization that forces me to not give Nvidia any more of my money for a while. Not that I have too many hopes of AMD's new mid-tier 6000 cards to improve the value situation either. But make no mistake, it is Nvidia who have created 4 years of absolute stagnation - abusing their market dominance, obviously. They decided the 2016 levels of performance were what you deserve, if you want more you'll pay more. There has not been any generational price/performance improvement in 4 years, at all. My mind is frankly blown.
 
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legcramp

[H]F Junkie
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Probably recency bias but the first thing that jumps out at me is a $399 MSRP card is right there with last gen's $1200 card.
 
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You know, all this not being able to purchase a GPU is giving me plenty of time to think. The more I think about it, the worse value that this current gen of GPUs seem to me. Let's just look at one particular example of a modern game:

View attachment 322873

So, for someone like me on a 1060, looking to buy a 3060. The 1060 isn't included in this chart, but we know it performs slightly below a 980 Ti and similar to a 980, so we can go with just below the last value on this chart. So we know a 1060 gets ~55-60fps at the same 1440p as pictures above (let's be a bit generous and just go with 60fps). 4 years later, I'd expect to get 120fps at the same price to performance tier.

I paid $200 in 2017 for my 1060. Three and a half years later - meaning, 2 GPU architecture generations later, or 3-4 refreshes later - you'd normally expect to get about double the performance for about the same amount of money. Now move on 2021. A 3060 Ti gets you 122fps on Death Stranding at 1440p. So, double the performance... but it costs double the money at $399. Think about that for a second. You get ZERO performance uplift for the same money, at least in the mid-tier cards. Again, think about this for a second:

There has been no price/performance uplift, whatsoever, since 2017.

Let that sink in. At $400, a 3060 Ti is giving you the exact same value a 1060 gave you nearly 4 years ago, no more, no less. This is despite 2 complete architectures being released, that are supposed to be more efficient. Yet, the value equation has not changed one iota in 4 years. Now, this is not a complaint about prices going up. It has nothing to do with the difficulty of new features like DXR, Death Stranding does not support it, it's purely rasterization. The baffling fact then, I just realized today, is that there has been no performance improvement at the same price point... in 4 years now, since late 2016.

This might actually be the most powerful realization that forces me to not give Nvidia any more of my money for a while. Not that I have too many hopes of AMD's new mid-tier 6000 cards to improve the value situation either. But make no mistake, it is Nvidia who have created 4 years of absolute stagnation - abusing their market dominance, obviously. They decided the 2016 levels of performance were what you deserve, if you want more you'll pay more. There has not been any generational price/performance improvement in 4 years, at all. My mind is frankly blown.
You're forgetting to count the value added by mining in your downtime. Add that in, and the value is stratospheric!!!!!!!!!!!
 

euskalzabe

[H]ard|Gawd
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Probably recency bias but the first thing that jumps out at me is a $399 MSRP card is right there with last gen's $1200 card.
Right. I did say I was talking about mid-tier cards though. Upper (3060 Ti and up) ranges have all seen improvements. Anything below that however, nothing.
You're forgetting to count the value added by mining in your downtime. Add that in, and the value is stratospheric!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd laugh at the joke if it didn't legitimately make me want to punch a hole through the wall...
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
6,161
You know, all this not being able to purchase a GPU is giving me plenty of time to think. The more I think about it, the worse value that this current gen of GPUs seem to me. Let's just look at one particular example of a modern game:

View attachment 322873

So, for someone like me on a 1060, looking to buy a 3060. The 1060 isn't included in this chart, but we know it performs slightly below a 980 Ti and similar to a 980, so we can go with just below the last value on this chart. So we know a 1060 gets ~55-60fps at the same 1440p as pictures above (let's be a bit generous and just go with 60fps). 4 years later, I'd expect to get 120fps at the same price to performance tier.

I paid $200 in 2017 for my 1060. Three and a half years later - meaning, 2 GPU architecture generations later, or 3-4 refreshes later - you'd normally expect to get about double the performance for about the same amount of money. Now move on 2021. A 3060 Ti gets you 122fps on Death Stranding at 1440p. So, double the performance... but it costs double the money at $399. Think about that for a second. You get ZERO performance uplift for the same money, at least in the mid-tier cards. Again, think about this for a second:

There has been no price/performance uplift, whatsoever, since 2017.

Let that sink in. At $400, a 3060 Ti is giving you the exact same value a 1060 gave you nearly 4 years ago, no more, no less. This is despite 2 complete architectures being released, that are supposed to be more efficient. Yet, the value equation has not changed one iota in 4 years. Now, this is not a complaint about prices going up. It has nothing to do with the difficulty of new features like DXR, Death Stranding does not support it, it's purely rasterization. The baffling fact then, I just realized today, is that there has been no performance improvement at the same price point... in 4 years now, since late 2016.

This might actually be the most powerful realization that forces me to not give Nvidia any more of my money for a while. Not that I have too many hopes of AMD's new mid-tier 6000 cards to improve the value situation either. But make no mistake, it is Nvidia who have created 4 years of absolute stagnation - abusing their market dominance, obviously. They decided the 2016 levels of performance were what you deserve, if you want more you'll pay more. There has not been any generational price/performance improvement in 4 years, at all. My mind is frankly blown.
Where can one buy a 3060 Ti for $400? I think it is worst then you indicated $ per fps.
 

Sir Beregond

Limp Gawd
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252
Man I think my local MC are liars. They told me they never get shipments in on Tuesdays and Saturdays, yet today's Tuesday and they got a few 5700 XT's and a couple 1660 Supers. Lol.
 
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Right. I did say I was talking about mid-tier cards though. Upper (3060 Ti and up) ranges have all seen improvements. Anything below that however, nothing.

I'd laugh at the joke if it didn't legitimately make me want to punch a hole through the wall...
Sorry, it does suck. I was planning on buying a hybrid 3080 as soon as they became available, but no dice sadly.
 

lopoetve

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Those prices look like retail price? 3060TI Strix = 619 on Newegg, 599 on whatever that site is. If you're trying to compare against original MSRP of a FE card, that's not valid - it's AIB, for one, and the MSRP was set prior to the 25% tariff kicking in. Tariff price is $500 (ish), and then add in the AIB overhead... :confused:
 

NightReaver

Limp Gawd
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467
Amazing. Imagine paying $600 for a 3060TI.

Don't care even if that's 'retail' pricing...just no, lol.

Edit - And as far as original MSRP value, it was only good when compared to the already disgusting RTX 2000 series pricing. All the "great value!" reviews were a giant charade.
 

lopoetve

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Amazing. Imagine paying $600 for a 3060TI.

Don't care even if that's 'retail' pricing...just no, lol.

Edit - And as far as original MSRP value, it was only good when compared to the already disgusting RTX 2000 series pricing. All the "great value!" reviews were a giant charade.
That first week it wasn't bad. It's what happened after that got weird. I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia keeps the FE at MSRP and eats the margin to keep the value argument alive...
 

NightReaver

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That first week it wasn't bad. It's what happened after that got weird. I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia keeps the FE at MSRP and eats the margin to keep the value argument alive...
Nah, even during the 1st week, the original pricing was only "meh". It wasn't good and it wasn't bad.

It's value was only good against the 2000 series.
 

lopoetve

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Nah, even during the 1st week, the original pricing was only "meh". It wasn't good and it wasn't bad.

It's value was only good against the 2000 series.
Pascal pricing was similar... not sure I understand where you're coming from?
 

t1337duder

Limp Gawd
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Earlier in this thread, a little over a month ago, I mentioned how I sold my old 1080Ti and was happy to get a little more than half what I paid for it. I was checking earlier this week and it looks like I could have gotten even more if I held onto it just a few weeks longer. Who would've thought the drought would go this long? Will it ever end? :p
 

NattyKathy

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I wish I'd had 500 bux to blow on Ebay in the first week of September, could have had a 2080Ti right now lol

thought briefly about spending the most recent stimmy check on a 3070 or 6800 but yeah, not going to touch the GPU market with a 10m pole right now. Not to mention I need a new CPU first (tho I am the kind of idiot who would pair a 3070 with an FX cpu) Picked up a used gaming laptop instead.

it's probably a good thing my Vega is so modded out as to be likely unsellable or else Id be seriously thinking about selling it for megabucks which would be a fool move since who knows when I could get a new card.
 
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I wish I'd had 500 bux to blow on Ebay in the first week of September, could have had a 2080Ti right now lol

thought briefly about spending the most recent stimmy check on a 3070 or 6800 but yeah, not going to touch the GPU market with a 10m pole right now. Not to mention I need a new CPU first (tho I am the kind of idiot who would pair a 3070 with an FX cpu) Picked up a used gaming laptop instead.

it's probably a good thing my Vega is so modded out as to be likely unsellable or else Id be seriously thinking about selling it for megabucks which would be a fool move since who knows when I could get a new card.
I feel your pain. I even remember some idiot on here talking about how the 2080 ti is really only worth $350 now that the 3070 was coming out last year.

Not sure if this is any consolation but someone just bought an fx 8350 I repaired for $125, so your cpu is still worth some decent cash should you choose to sell it.
 

DooKey

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I feel your pain. I even remember some idiot on here talking about how the 2080 ti is really only worth $350 now that the 3070 was coming out last year.

Not sure if this is any consolation but someone just bought an fx 8350 I repaired for $125, so your cpu is still worth some decent cash should you choose to sell it.
Yep, I know who that idiot was. He won't admit to it now.
 

euskalzabe

[H]ard|Gawd
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friend of mine just bought a 3060ti for $700. i cried
Jeez. And here I am dying on the hill where I will not pay a single cent over MSRP. Do people not care about the value of money anymore? I just don't get paying over MSRP for anything in life.
 
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lopoetve

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Jeez. And here I am dying on the hill where I will not pay a single cent over MSRP. Do people not care about the value of money anymore? I just don't get paying over MSRP for anything in life.
Value of money is what it gets you and what your time is worth, as well as what the opportunity cost of spending it elsewhere would be. It's totally fine that you want to stick to MSRP - for many people, the desire to do something right now is worth more. Would you pay extra for a luxury vacation? I know many folks that insist on staying at Motel 8s, and I know quite a few that want a high-end hotel, even if all you're doing is sleeping there. Value is different to different people, as they have different priorities.

I wouldn't spend $700 on a 3060TI, but I had no issue doing so for a 3070 (EVGA FTW3 model, about $100 over MSRP - given shipping, tax, reshipping, I didn't have an issue with that). And I've been playing VR games on it daily as a result - something I couldn't have done before. Those led to challenges with the wife on beat saber, finishing (ish) lost echo, and now I'm playing Alyx as a stress relief. That has value to me, more than what the cost of the card was. Choosing how you measure value is part of having freedom.
 

x509

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Value of money is what it gets you and what your time is worth, as well as what the opportunity cost of spending it elsewhere would be. It's totally fine that you want to stick to MSRP - for many people, the desire to do something right now is worth more. Would you pay extra for a luxury vacation? I know many folks that insist on staying at Motel 8s, and I know quite a few that want a high-end hotel, even if all you're doing is sleeping there. Value is different to different people, as they have different priorities.

I wouldn't spend $700 on a 3060TI, but I had no issue doing so for a 3070 (EVGA FTW3 model, about $100 over MSRP - given shipping, tax, reshipping, I didn't have an issue with that). And I've been playing VR games on it daily as a result - something I couldn't have done before. Those led to challenges with the wife on beat saber, finishing (ish) lost echo, and now I'm playing Alyx as a stress relief. That has value to me, more than what the cost of the card was. Choosing how you measure value is part of having freedom.
Yeah, but what about your wife? If I told my wife I was going to spend, like $100-200 above MSRP, uh, there might be an "issue."
 

euskalzabe

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Yeah, but what about your wife? If I told my wife I was going to spend, like $100-200 above MSRP, uh, there might be an "issue."
My household's solution: each of you keep separate savings accounts for your own wanna-buy stuff. My husband and I never have to "check" with each other about spending whatever amount of money we want from our separate pools.
 

lopoetve

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Yeah, but what about your wife? If I told my wife I was going to spend, like $100-200 above MSRP, uh, there might be an "issue."
My wife works in the IT industry just like I do. She has a 1080 on her system, and was there when we went hunting for the 1060 that was in her old system. She laughs. She also understands value and that sometimes, things cost what they cost. If I did something insane like pay 2k for one I’d get looked at strange, but I’ve refreshed (slowly and steadily) the entire houses computers this year.

edit: the 1060 was mid mining boom. Fuckers were hard to find!
 

lopoetve

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My household's solution: each of you keep separate savings accounts for your own wanna-buy stuff. My husband and I never have to "check" with each other about spending whatever amount of money we want from our separate pools.
This. All my upgrades came from my pool. Her upgrades came from... well, my pool. But she inherits my older systems.
 

DBZ33

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Jeez. And here I am dying on the hill where I will not pay a single cent over MSRP. Do people not care about the value of money anymore? I just don't get paying over MSRP for anything in life.
Lot of these people are also mining with the cards. 3060ti makes about $150 a month without power use so makes up for the extra money they are paying.
 

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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Still got a 2080 and a Ti, might move those out soon with the new 6900 XT coming in, as prices do not seem to be coming down for a good while.
 

DBZ33

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Still got a 2080 and a Ti, might move those out soon with the new 6900 XT coming in, as prices do not seem to be coming down for a good while.
Put those on ebay now. They are both selling for crazy amounts. Never know when the mining ends and cards will flood eBay. Happed in 2018 after good mining only lasted Nov 2017 to Feb 2018.
 
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