Even 3D Fumes can be Bad PSA

FrgMstr

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This is a tragic story, but worthy of mention here as I know it could very well pertain to a lot of our readers. Many of you have gotten into 3D printing of parts over the last couple of years, and this is one of those moments that you need to RTFM. Some extruded plastics are very very bad for you. And don't think you are too smart and this could not happen to you. Both these folks attended MIT.

The source said that the couple was using a laser 3-D printer that was venting into their residence. Symptoms and signs consistent with carbon monoxide poisoning were found in their bodies.
 

WheresWaldo

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Kyle, this is a case of very bad reporting. There isn't a single filament available today that emits CO gas when printed. Even resin printers while they stink to high heaven do not emit CO gas. They were using a Laser cutter not a 3D printer. Glowforge coined the term 3D Laser Printer as a marketing term to promote their laser cutter. Now laser cutters are a completely different story and the fumes can be deadly and may include CO gas depending on materials used.

With respect to the study cited in most of these articles, yes there may be particulates that enter the air when melting plastic beyond its Tg temperature to get it to flow, but nothing that would kill you overnight, or even over decades.

This is a prime example of a news outlet jumping on a story that plays on people's preconceived fears to increase clicks on their site. It isn't really a PSA but rather a case of spreading FUD!
 
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dgingeri

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They just said that the bodies had signs of CO poisoning, not that it was determined to be the issue. There are many other chemicals that could exhibit the same symptoms, including CO2. The symptoms of CO poisoning are pretty general, really, as they happen whenever oxygen absorption is inhibited: pink skin hues, petechial hemorraghaging, etc. It very well could have been fumes from the 3D printer, but they haven't nailed that down either.
 
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Kyle, this is a case of very bad reporting. There isn't a single filament available today that emits CO gas when printed. Even resin printers while they stink to high heaven do not emit CO gas. They were using a Laser cutter not a 3D printer. Glowforge coined the term 3D Laser Printer as a marketing term to promote their laser cutter. Now laser cutters are a completely different story and the fumes can be deadly and may include CO gas depending on materials used.

With respect to the study cited in most of these articles, yes there may be particulates that enter the air when melting plastic beyond its Tg temperature to get it to flow, but nothing that would kill you overnight, or even over decades.

This is a prime example of a news outlet jumping on a story that plays on people's preconceived fears to increase clicks on their site. It isn't really a PSA but rather a case of spreading FUD!
I was wondering when I read "laser 3D printer", I had a wtf moment. However, in either case, it is common sense that EITHER of these should have proper venting. Both seemed to be educated people as well, it's amazing they did not think about this, big time when dealing with anything that burns as a part of its process.
 

WheresWaldo

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No CO or CO2 from any currently available filament used in 3D printers today, so it doesn't matter what their bodies showed signs of, it wasn't a 3D printer, period! Proper ventilation is something everyone should think about.

Sensationalized news that borders on the definition of FAKE News.

I think the cats did it in a murder/suicide pack you know how those cats are.
 

FrgMstr

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Kyle, this is a case of very bad reporting. There isn't a single filament available today that emits CO gas when printed. Even resin printers while they stink to high heaven do not emit CO gas. They were using a Laser cutter not a 3D printer. Glowforge coined the term 3D Laser Printer as a marketing term to promote their laser cutter. Now laser cutters are a completely different story and the fumes can be deadly and may include CO gas depending on materials used.

With respect to the study cited in most of these articles, yes there may be particulates that enter the air when melting plastic beyond its Tg temperature to get it to flow, but nothing that would kill you overnight, or even over decades.

This is a prime example of a news outlet jumping on a story that plays on people's preconceived fears to increase clicks on their site. It isn't really a PSA but rather a case of spreading FUD!
Hence RTFM. I was in the plastic extrusion business for about 10 years. When you are extruding plastics, you should be very aware of what exactly you are working with.
 

dgingeri

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No CO or CO2 from any currently available filament used in 3D printers today, so it doesn't matter what their bodies showed signs of, it wasn't a 3D printer, period! Proper ventilation is something everyone should think about.

Sensationalized news that borders on the definition of FAKE News.

I think the cats did it in a murder/suicide pack you know how those cats are.
Did you know that gasoline fumes can suffocate a person in the same way as carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide, showing nearly the same symptoms. In fact, many hydrocarbons show these same symptoms, including hydrocarbons exuded from plastics under high temperature.
 

WheresWaldo

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dgingeri Why are we arguing this, it wasn't a 3D printer! It wasn't printing a 3D model! I was referring to the fact that the reporting was bad. And why are you reading more into this article than was published. Honestly we don't even know CO was the cause of death, it was a leap of faith by the original reporters. The investigating officer said the following:
Until we get the coroner’s report, we really won’t know what caused their deaths. It truly is a mystery at this point.
Even the latest report included this line:
Deputy Fire Chief Dave Brannigan said firefighters, a Pacific Gas & Electric crew and members of a hazardous-materials team ruled out hazardous causes, including carbon monoxide poisoning.
 
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We have a company called Algix that makes filament out of algae. If you use the green type, it smells like PEOPLE!
 

Zarathustra[H]

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From what I understand from friends of friends who used to work at Harmonix in Boston, both of the victims were colleagues of theirs at the studio.

What a sad tie-in to the gaming community.
 
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WheresWaldo

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Here is the latest quote from a friend of the family
Allen Rabinovich, a friend of the couple, stated: “This is all pure speculation. The device named in the KPIX CBS article (‘laser 3D printer’) doesn’t even exist, and we are in contact with the police, who are still working on official investigation results. We’d like to ask the press to refrain from speculating until official results come out. Whether we know tonight or a week from now won’t change the fact that two amazing human beings have passed far too soon. Our focus right now is on preserving and magnifying their legacy.”
The autopsy was completed late yesterday and the result have not yet been released.
 

amddragonpc

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Seems like the "journalists" have their lost their minds and thrown their work ethics out the window.
 
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evilsofa

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From a local message board where friends of the couple posted more details:

"On a personal note, I can tell you that there were two devices in the house, a small 3D printer, and a small laser cutter, that were used for building models and rigs for scientific research. Val was an immaculate engineer, and conformed to all safety rules in operating these machines. To the best of our knowledge, neither of the machines were operating the night they passed away."

"3. Most importantly, from what the investigators told us, the laser cutter bed was completely empty and it wasn't running when they found it. The same goes for the 3D printer."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13507734
 

blkt

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Two weeks ago I woke up to my house being flooded with gas; I ran outside holding my breath and there were workers in the adjacent neighbor's back yard pumping stuff into the sewer pipes to rehabilitate them with some sort of lining. I went back into my house to run water down the drains, the fan, open up the doors and ran out again. It took an entire day for the fumes to go away, but smells lingered for a week. They said the resin fumes were non-toxic, but I am calling bullshit because I still don't feel right and was given no warning.
 

ButtonPuncher

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This should be a PSA for CO/gas detectors. They should be as common as smoke detectors. Too bad a lot of people don't know what they actually do or why they need one.

BP
 

ChoGGi

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Two weeks ago I woke up to my house being flooded with gas; I ran outside holding my breath and there were workers in the adjacent neighbor's back yard pumping stuff into the sewer pipes to rehabilitate them with some sort of lining. I went back into my house to run water down the drains, the fan, open up the doors and ran out again. It took an entire day for the fumes to go away, but smells lingered for a week. They said the resin fumes were non-toxic, but I am calling bullshit because I still don't feel right and was given no warning.
Unless the plumber in your house had some interesting ideas about building codes, shouldn't all your drains have traps (if you have drum or s traps you should think about replacing them)? There could be some other issue with your plumbing further back that you may want to have checked out (crack in the drainage pipe)?
If you have a sink you don't use often then you should make sure it has water in the trap, you don't want gases from the sewer coming up.
 

blkt

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Unless the plumber in your house had some interesting ideas about building codes, shouldn't all your drains have traps (if you have drum or s traps you should think about replacing them)? There could be some other issue with your plumbing further back that you may want to have checked out (crack in the drainage pipe)?
If you have a sink you don't use often then you should make sure it has water in the trap, you don't want gases from the sewer coming up.
I think it was too high of pressure to prevent, but you are right about all that. Thanks. Sorry for off-topic.
 

EODetroit

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I have a 3D Printer and I won't use certain plastics because of the fumes. I can't adequately ventilate the room its in for some of them, so I simply choose different ones that aren't so unsafe.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Another attack of 'Fake News'?
Less "Fake News" more "poor research".

Before we were talking about fake news, the downfall of news was supposedly due to people only skimming headlines and not reading things in depth. This is one of those.
 

WheresWaldo

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Well this story is not really about readers misunderstanding what was written. It was about sensationalizing a single aspect of a story to make it more clickable. That is what news organizations have come to. A legitimate new agency can't compete with Facebook so in an effort to increase visitor interaction they tend to print whatever is click worthy and disregard all the research that needs to be done to report accurately.

So in the end this story was not about a 3D Laser Printer at all (which of course doesn't actually exist) and something else was the cause of their tragic deaths.

It's also a real shame that even the [H] falls for shit like this and reprints or links to stories that simply aren't true.
 

WheresWaldo

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Kyle,

I should have been clearer with my post, the first part was completely unrelated to [H] and I meant that for places like CBS and Newspaper sites, not the [H]. Sorry you took offense as none was meant there.

And you are absolutely right, I don't post much, that is not why I visit [H] almost every day, it is the articles, reviews and opinion pieces, not the forum.
 

FrgMstr

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I should have been clearer with my post, the first part was completely unrelated to [H] and I meant that for places like CBS and Newspaper sites, not the [H]. Sorry you took offense as none was meant there.
This is not a forum or topic to discuss your issues with the MSM.
 

DocSavage

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This should be a PSA for CO/gas detectors. They should be as common as smoke detectors. Too bad a lot of people don't know what they actually do or why they need one.

BP
Regardless of the source of the poisoning, given that both adults and the cats died, it still seems like some kind of airborne poisoning. Maybe a CO detector could have saved them. What a sad event.
 

raz-0

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Whether it was a 3D printer or a laser cutter, I now know to at least have proper ventilation for any of them. Better safe than sorry.
Yes, but proper ventilation varies WILDLY between 3d printing and laser cutting. Heck it varies wildly between laser cutting material A and material B.

I was looking into getting a laser cutter to cut patterns out of kydex. All I can say is DAYUM I am glad I do my research rather than just winging it. The gases formed by cutting that stuff are pretty frikin acidic and can etch your laser lens and fuck up your lungs pretty rapidly. Even small ventilation systems that were resistant to the issues of acidic gases in the presence of normal humidity were about as much as the laser cutter at the time.
 

krotch

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Yes, but proper ventilation varies WILDLY between 3d printing and laser cutting. Heck it varies wildly between laser cutting material A and material B.

I was looking into getting a laser cutter to cut patterns out of kydex. All I can say is DAYUM I am glad I do my research rather than just winging it. The gases formed by cutting that stuff are pretty frikin acidic and can etch your laser lens and fuck up your lungs pretty rapidly. Even small ventilation systems that were resistant to the issues of acidic gases in the presence of normal humidity were about as much as the laser cutter at the time.
I'm very much an overkill kind of person. 2 floor standing fans and a wide open window (4' x 4'). I don't have any 3D printers or laser cutters, so not much an issue. For me, it's just for when I paint and also summer, cause no A/C.

Is there not a good enough respirator to use inconjunction with the ventilation for cutting kydex? Although, I'd end up just using a dremel and file for something like that anyways. I'm pretty cheap sometimes.
 

Draax

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I keep my work 3D printer in the spray booth with the fan always running. Then again I have an ABS printer.
 
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