Europeans Press for Digital Tax at G20 Meeting

[Megalith]

The EU continued its fight for a global digital tax on tech companies at this weekend’s G20 meeting, urging implementation of already-proposed rules that would see Google, Facebook, Amazon, and similar giants pay their “fair share” by 2020. Being that many of these companies are American, the US isn’t exactly on board.

“One of the big challenges is that taxation of the digital economy is mostly of course a taxation of American companies - because they are the key players in the world - so the United States feel that this is an attack concerning their digital economy, which it isn’t really,” European Council representative to the G20 Hubert Fuchs said on the sidelines of the meeting.

 

[4saken]

So the EU pushes, not Europeans. Two completely different things.

 

[Riccochet]

So the EU pushes, not Europeans. Two completely different things.

You do know what EU stands for, right? European is part of the name.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

EU must love Google.

 

[chvylvr350]

Socialist always need more of other peoples money, and with Great Britain leaving they are looking for other sources.

 

[DukenukemX]

Socialist always need more of other peoples money, and with Great Britain leaving they are looking for other sources.

If taxing is socialist then America is a socialist country. Personally I don't care if EU taxes the shit out of these companies as it doesn't effect me what so ever. These guys can afford to pay some taxes.

 

[cyclone3d]

So the EU pushes, not Europeans. Two completely different things.

Just as the politicians of most places do not actually represent the desires of most of the people they are supposed to represent, I am pretty sure the EU is full of money grabbing politicians. Did the citizens in the countries that are members of the EU vote for this? If not, then the EU is NOT representative of a majority of Europeans.

 

[cyclone3d]

If taxing is socialist then America is a socialist country. Personally I don't care if EU taxes the shit out of these companies as it doesn't effect me what so ever. These guys can afford to pay some taxes.

View attachment 91319

Oh, really? You think corporations pay taxes? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. The customers are the ones that pay the taxes in the form of higher prices.

 

[DNMock]

Isn't there a tax for this already called a tariff?

 

[Hatriot]

If taxing is socialist then America is a socialist country. Personally I don't care if EU taxes the shit out of these companies as it doesn't effect me what so ever. These guys can afford to pay some taxes.

View attachment 91319

Jesus the ignorance of people like you terrifies me. All corporate taxes are passed down to the consumer. They are talking about taxing the companies not leftwing Jeff that you have in your picture. Taxing anything that breaths is socialism, and yeah kids like you are socialist. Just read the snide these guys can "afford" it. Who the hell are you to decide that the state can take someone else's money. That sure as hell is not YOUR money. Little closet fascists like you seem to think that you have a right to another person's success. You seem to actually believe they stole it from you and that is the only reason you are poor and not a brain surgeon. Grow up. And fvck the EU. Most of them consist if irrelevant countries that are not even the size of many of our states. Go wallow in your socialist utopias as they crumble around you and leave America alone. We are done being your welfare provider for everything.

 

[4saken]

You do know what EU stands for, right? European is part of the name.

And the Europeans dont vote for these money grabbing politicians in the EU who think they know better.

 

[Cyraxx]

There already are taxes for everything... They are called... INCOME TAXES. Derrrrrrrrrrp.

Any income (digital, physical, mental, psychedelic, etc...) are all taxable.

You know what Al Capone got charged with? It wasn't theft, it was tax evasion because even money made from robbery or drug sales are supposed to be reported to the IRS.

This is absolutely stupid, if they are somehow evading their income taxes via "digital" then reform your income tax laws for the times today. This isn't difficult, you don't need a new set of "digital" taxes.

 

[katanaD]

Isn't there a tax for this already called a tariffs?

reading through the article to find out WHAT the heck they are talking about it appears to be..

basically a sales tax on digital advertising

so, they are wanting a piece of the AD money

 

[mynamehere]

Oh, really? You think corporations pay taxes? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. The customers are the ones that pay the taxes in the form of higher prices.

I've been trying to explain this to people for awhile now. All costs of doing business are passed on to customers in one form or another; whether cost of product, or in taxes to cover government incentives/subsidies/tax breaks (both customers, and non-customers pay for government incentives/subsidies/tax breaks).

 

[Cyraxx]

reading through the article to find out WHAT the heck they are talking about it appears to be..





so, they are wanting a piece of the AD money

They DO get a piece of it already is what I'm saying.

Company A pays Company B to display an Ad on their website.

Company B reports said revenue, because that is considered income.

 

[Fix Me]

Jesus the ignorance of people like you terrifies me. All corporate taxes are passed down to the consumer. They are talking about taxing the companies not leftwing Jeff that you have in your picture. Taxing anything that breaths is socialism, and yeah kids like you are socialist. Just read the snide these guys can "afford" it. Who the hell are you to decide that the state can take someone else's money. That sure as hell is not YOUR money. Little closet fascists like you seem to think that you have a right to another person's success. You seem to actually believe they stole it from you and that is the only reason you are poor and not a brain surgeon. Grow up. And fvck the EU. Most of them consist if irrelevant countries that are not even the size of many of our states. Go wallow in your socialist utopias as they crumble around you and leave America alone. We are done being your welfare provider for everything.

They can afford it, stop whining and fear mongering. Hold them accountable if they pass on the taxes to consumers. They can afford it.

 

[Dead Parrot]

One of the ironies here is that many of the EU members created tax breaks so these companies would locate parts of their operations in the EU. Now they are acting shocked that it has worked and these companies are making a lot of money and paying a greatly reduced rate.

 

[cdabc123]

They can afford it, stop whining and fear mongering. Hold them accountable if they pass on the taxes to consumers. They can afford it.

you can afford to pay me $100 so ill pm you my paypal.

 

[DarthBeavis]

Jesus the ignorance of people like you terrifies me. All corporate taxes are passed down to the consumer. They are talking about taxing the companies not leftwing Jeff that you have in your picture. Taxing anything that breaths is socialism, and yeah kids like you are socialist. Just read the snide these guys can "afford" it. Who the hell are you to decide that the state can take someone else's money. That sure as hell is not YOUR money. Little closet fascists like you seem to think that you have a right to another person's success. You seem to actually believe they stole it from you and that is the only reason you are poor and not a brain surgeon. Grow up. And fvck the EU. Most of them consist if irrelevant countries that are not even the size of many of our states. Go wallow in your socialist utopias as they crumble around you and leave America alone. We are done being your welfare provider for everything.

Well said.

 

[Krazy925]

They can afford it, stop whining and fear mongering. Hold them accountable if they pass on the taxes to consumers. They can afford it. /s

FTFY

 

[Fabel]

People in Europe pay what? an average of 25% of their income? and then VAT on product purchases that can go up to the low twenties.

Meanwhile companies like Google et al can deduct VAT payments AND get to pay very low percent of their income thanks to shit like that double irish. We are talking less than 10% even a ridiculous low less than 1% for Apple.

Of course people with high income also pay very little, they create shell companies just to funnel the money and make low tax payments.

I don't care if companies pass taxes on consumers it is unacceptable for them to have a free pass on taxes and only serves for rich people, who for example can use their black credit cards to pay for anything trough those shell companies at low taxes.

 

[Templar_X]

the root of the problem: that “no one knows” how to measure for tax purposes the value of the data users of social media services like Facebook create outside of the countries where those companies are based.

Basically it seems that international companies operate in the EU but don't report part of the revenue generated from collecting user data and so on, the reasoning seems to be that a lot of this data is for ad targeting hence the proposal to tax digital advertising as an interim measure until a better solution is found (projected for 2020).
Doesn't seem like a good solution, but having local divisions of companies operating at reported losses (so no taxes on profit) when in fact are generating a lot of information that is profitable to their HQ/tax-havens is also not a desirable situation. Besides the tax dodge it causes unfair competition with companies that do report their revenue within the EU where the information was collected. From the article:

SMEs (small and medium enterprises) have a level of taxation 40 points higher than the level of taxation of internet giants

Taxation should be where the moneymaking is and if the digital economy is making the money all over the world it doesn’t really make sense if they only will declare their income in the United States

 

[tetris42]

Jesus the ignorance of people like you terrifies me. All corporate taxes are passed down to the consumer. They are talking about taxing the companies not leftwing Jeff that you have in your picture. Taxing anything that breaths is socialism, and yeah kids like you are socialist. Just read the snide these guys can "afford" it. Who the hell are you to decide that the state can take someone else's money. That sure as hell is not YOUR money. Little closet fascists like you seem to think that you have a right to another person's success. You seem to actually believe they stole it from you and that is the only reason you are poor and not a brain surgeon. Grow up. And fvck the EU. Most of them consist if irrelevant countries that are not even the size of many of our states. Go wallow in your socialist utopias as they crumble around you and leave America alone. We are done being your welfare provider for everything.

I know I'm stepping on a landmine here, but you talk about "growing up", do this is the general concept behind taxes:

Some things that need doing don't get done when it's just companies operating under a profit motive + occasional charity. Need a police force that serves everyone and not just who pays them? That takes money. Need an agency to clean up the water and soil when a company dumps toxins into it and inspect them to minimize that happening in the first place? That also takes money. Need children educated whose parents are too poor to afford private schools? That also takes money. The vast majority of people have decided that those, among many other things are services a civilized society should have. The system most governments in history have set up have been to collect taxes in order to fund those endeavors. Sometimes tax funds are abused, no denying that, but the principle is they go towards helping the people also. Even the Romans had the aqueducts. You say "it's someone else's money", but that's only true in a vacuum. Everyone making that money drove on public roads, enjoyed police protection, drinkable water, clean air, etc. Taxes are the RENT for living in a country that's providing all those services, whether you want them or not. To imply nothing is owed is simply freeloading.

Trying to imply America is divorced from all that is simply delusional. It's just a question of what taxes affect who, for how much, and where they go towards.

I imagine you disagree, but don't worry, America is very far from being a socialist utopia.

 

[PaulP]

They can afford it, stop whining and fear mongering. Hold them accountable if they pass on the taxes to consumers. They can afford it.

What a vacuous argument. Taxes are just another cost to a business, and all costs get passed on to the customer. Otherwise they can't make a profit and without that there's no reason to be in business. We have a term for working without gaining any benefit: slavery.

 

[PaulP]

So, they already tax the devices you use to access the internet (when you buy them). They also tax the the service you use to access the internet. Then they tax you for anything you buy on the internet. But apparently that's not enough for these socialists in the EU. These companies already pay taxes in their home country (mostly the US). If the EU wants more taxes, then they need to attract more digital businesses to move/start-up in their countries. Instead, they make it as unattractive as possible with their nearly anti-business policies.

 

[Dick Johnson]

Jesus the ignorance of people like you terrifies me. All corporate taxes are passed down to the consumer. They are talking about taxing the companies

So far, in my entire life, I have paid exactly ZERO dollars to Google and Facebook and very little to Amazon.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Oh look, yet another pointless political discussion about socialism in an american hardware forum

Don't you ever grow tired of this same discussion happening over and over again?

 

[M76]

You do know what EU stands for, right? European is part of the name.

As much as the US stands for all Americans. Hell you can't even claim that the us government speaks for all us citizens.

 

[M76]

Don't you ever grow tired of this same discussion happening over and over again?

So you came in to tell everyone you're leaving? A little melodramatic.

 

[travisty]

Jesus the ignorance of people like you terrifies me. All corporate taxes are passed down to the consumer. They are talking about taxing the companies not leftwing Jeff that you have in your picture. Taxing anything that breaths is socialism, and yeah kids like you are socialist. Just read the snide these guys can "afford" it. Who the hell are you to decide that the state can take someone else's money. That sure as hell is not YOUR money. Little closet fascists like you seem to think that you have a right to another person's success. You seem to actually believe they stole it from you and that is the only reason you are poor and not a brain surgeon. Grow up. And fvck the EU. Most of them consist if irrelevant countries that are not even the size of many of our states. Go wallow in your socialist utopias as they crumble around you and leave America alone. We are done being your welfare provider for everything.

You, sadly, are very ignorant.

"Taxing anything is socialism" is just a stupid statement in general. "Taxing anything" would fall under a Regressive tax system because it negatively impacts the poor more than the rich. The majority of taxation, even in the US, is regressive (no surprise). A proper tax, which would properly tax people like Bezos, would be progressive taxes like taxing total wealth. (total wealth including land, investments, etc which would impact the wealthy much more than the other 90% of people)

The difference between Regressive and Progressive taxes are not black and white. Countries that use Regressive taxes can be very successful (Nordic Countries) and use Progressive taxes can go very badly (Italy, Brazil). In either case it takes a strong government that understands the benefits and drawbacks to different tax structures to use them correctly. (ie not the current POTUS)

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

So you came in to tell everyone you're leaving? A little melodramatic.

I came to express my opinion about this supposedly hardware forum tends to have a bit much political discussion these days. Many hardware forums ban political news discussions for a good reason, because it rarely ever turns out something good of it, more chances of the same old same old rambling of people with their strong feelings

 

[M76]

I came to express my opinion about this supposedly hardware forum tends to have a bit much political discussion these days. Many hardware forums ban political news discussions for a good reason, because it rarely ever turns out something good of it, more chances of the same old same old rambling of people with their strong feelings

You are literally telling other people that they shouldn't talk about sg. because you're not interested. As opposed to not clicking on the topic you're not interested in.

 

[DNMock]

I came to express my opinion...

So you came to express your opinion that no one else should express their opinions... Socialist...

Edit: Generally speaking I'm with you that it gets boring and tired reading the same things re-packaged over and over, but super complex things like economics, politics, religion, etc. are interesting and occasionally someone will drop some information that I wasn't aware of.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

You are literally telling other people that they shouldn't talk about sg. because you're not interested. As opposed to not clicking on the topic you're not interested in.

My point is what does this political debate about socialism that keeps occuring like every other day in this forum have to do with computer hardware? It brings more harm than good, gives only more work for mods. But you win I will do it the right way and post about it in the site feedback section and I encourage everyone else that is getting fed up with this same repetitive discussion in this forum is doing the same.

 

[travisty]

I, too, get so tired of people not understanding what Socialism is.

In modern discourse, people either believe either that Socialism is anti-Democracy leading to Communism or that Socialism can positively direct a Democracy.


As someone from the later camp, i understand that Socialism has two distinct parts - Governance and Economy. In the case of the US we have Republic (Government) and Capitalism (Economy). To the Republic side, i'm fine with keeping it as is; i'd prefer more than just the two parties to liven things up but that can still work in a Republic. It's the blind obedience to Capitalism that I abhor where more Socialist (Economic) ideals - progressive taxation and public ownership - can assist in my opinion. Before it's asked, yes i am in the top 10%, so no i am not asking for handouts, i'm asking to be taxed proportionally; and no i cannot just send the IRS more money in taxes as they will just return it to me.

 

[vegeta535]

You, sadly, are very ignorant.

"Taxing anything is socialism" is just a stupid statement in general. "Taxing anything" would fall under a Regressive tax system because it negatively impacts the poor more than the rich. The majority of taxation, even in the US, is regressive (no surprise). A proper tax, which would properly tax people like Bezos, would be progressive taxes like taxing total wealth. (total wealth including land, investments, etc which would impact the wealthy much more than the other 90% of people)

The difference between Regressive and Progressive taxes are not black and white. Countries that use Regressive taxes can be very successful (Nordic Countries) and use Progressive taxes can go very badly (Italy, Brazil). In either case it takes a strong government that understands the benefits and drawbacks to different tax structures to use them correctly. (ie not the current POTUS)

Poor people pay very little if any in this country. The middle class is the one that gets screwed.

 

[DNMock]

I, too, get so tired of people not understanding what Socialism is.

In modern discourse, people either believe either that Socialism is anti-Democracy leading to Communism or that Socialism can positively direct a Democracy.


As someone from the later camp, i understand that Socialism has two distinct parts - Governance and Economy. In the case of the US we have Republic (Government) and Capitalism (Economy). To the Republic side, i'm fine with keeping it as is; i'd prefer more than just the two parties to liven things up but that can still work in a Republic. It's the blind obedience to Capitalism that I abhor where more Socialist (Economic) ideals - progressive taxation and public ownership - can assist in my opinion. Before it's asked, yes i am in the top 10%, so no i am not asking for handouts, i'm asking to be taxed proportionally; and no i cannot just send the IRS more money in taxes as they will just return it to me.

The tricky part of progressive taxes is who defines who is wealthy enough to absorb extra taxes and what qualifies as wealth to begin with? Anyone in the U.S. who is above the poverty line is in the top 1% worldwide, should that be the line to be considered reasonable excess taxable wealth? You might not think so but the next person who takes charge after you very well may. The land and equipment required to run even a small farm easily exceeds $1,000,000 if completely liquidated, would you consider someone who owns and operates a small farm wealthy because of that? If not, what prevents the exceedingly wealthy from hiding their money in land and farming equipment?

In passing, progressive tax systems sound great, but when you start to look at the nuts and bolts of it there is a lot of issues there that could easily derail a system that historically speaking, has been a dang good one. It's easy to mess things up when dealing with a complex thing like this, but it's really hard to make minor improvements.

 

[cdabc123]

I came to express my opinion about this supposedly hardware forum tends to have a bit much political discussion these days. Many hardware forums ban political news discussions for a good reason, because it rarely ever turns out something good of it, more chances of the same old same old rambling of people with their strong feelings

It would make since if you were conplaining about this discussion happening in say a "top 10 CPUs" thread but ya should have known this exact thing would be in a thread like this. What your doing is like clicking on a NSFW thread then being shocked and reporting nudity within it

 

[cyclone3d]

So far, in my entire life, I have paid exactly ZERO dollars to Google and Facebook and very little to Amazon.

If the service is "FREE", YOU are the product.

In turn, those companies will just bump up their advertising costs and then those companies that advertise will bump up the price of their products to cover the difference.

And, in turn, you will be paying higher prices for those products.

 

[tetris42]

The tricky part of progressive taxes is who defines who is wealthy enough to absorb extra taxes and what qualifies as wealth to begin with?

Lobbyists hired by rich people will define it.