EU Threatening MS With New Fines

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The EU is once again threatening Microsoft with fines, this time the allegations are that the company has failed to live up to legal promises to provide competitors with updated and reasonably priced information on work group servers.

Under a so-called "statement of objections" released Thursday, the EU's executive Commission said there was "no significant innovation" in the requested information. It also rejected 1,500 pages of submissions by Microsoft over the past three months and said Microsoft's price proposals were unreasonable. "I am therefore again obliged to take formal measures to ensure that Microsoft complies with its obligations," EU Antitrust Commissioner Neelie Kroes said in a statement.
 

Ockie

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We should just stop posting EU MS garbage here... I'm getting so tired of the EU crap.
 

pxc

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That was always the retarded reasoning of the EU: the fines are justified to be sky high, but MS is expected to give away the information for free or almost free. :rolleyes:
 

Hexen525

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Thinking maybe MS should stop offering products in Europe. This is getting ridiculous. Do they just want MS to pay for all of their government expenses?
 

GilmourD

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That was always the retarded reasoning of the EU: the fines are justified to be sky high, but MS is expected to give away the information for free or almost free. :rolleyes:

The EU is trying to turn MS into an open-source dispenser without profit. Hi... MS is an American company. Welcome to capitalism. How many concessions does the EU really want them to make?
 

nunyabiz

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Thinking maybe MS should stop offering products in Europe. This is getting ridiculous. Do they just want MS to pay for all of their government expenses?


The problem is even with the fines MS still makes money. If they stopped offering products, people would just pirate it and MS would get nothing.

The EU knows this and just likes to steal MS's profits.
 

Toytown

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can someone explain how the EU has any right/power to fine MS

Errr, because MS has a base of operations in the EU and sells its products in the EU. The same as it does in other regions of the world.........you know "the world" not just the US of A.
 

aramis

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[H] should just go ahead and make a permanent placeholder in the news section for the newest bout of fines the EU is levelling against Microsoft.

... it's to the point of ludicrousocity (yes, I just made that up).
 

djellison

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More often than not, these threads rapdily evolve into a Europe bashing thread, lambasting all Europeans as whining, limp wristed, spineless liberals.

I thought I would pre-emtively remind people that the actions of a few moronic politicians and lawyers does not, in any way, reflect the opinions, wishes, desires or beliefs of the public of Europe in any way.

To cover all Europeans with the same brush is akin to assuming every US citizen is 100% behind GWB in everything he does....which is simply not true.

Frankly, as a Brit and thus a European - I'd rather the EU stopped spending my taxes on this utterly pointless crap and spent it doing something usefull.

It's the same with the Vista pricing bull - a thread on that was, as a European, a hiddeous thing to read, the hatred and vitriol point in my direct because of the actions of a few and the redeployment of the 'they're all the same' simplistic thinking was unjustified, idiotic and frankly, pathetic.

I hope, for once, [H] and HF members can differentiate between Europe, and the morons who run the EU. They are not the same.

Doug
 

GilmourD

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More often than not, these threads rapdily evolve into a Europe bashing thread, lambasting all Europeans as whining, limp wristed, spineless liberals.

I thought I would pre-emtively remind people that the actions of a few moronic politicians and lawyers does not, in any way, reflect the opinions, wishes, desires or beliefs of the public of Europe in any way.

To cover all Europeans with the same brush is akin to assuming every US citizen is 100% behind GWB in everything he does....which is simply not true.

Frankly, as a Brit and thus a European - I'd rather the EU stopped spending my taxes on this utterly pointless crap and spent it doing something usefull.

It's the same with the Vista pricing bull - a thread on that was, as a European, a hiddeous thing to read, the hatred and vitriol point in my direct because of the actions of a few and the redeployment of the 'they're all the same' simplistic thinking was unjustified, idiotic and frankly, pathetic.

I hope, for once, [H] and HF members can differentiate between Europe, and the morons who run the EU. They are not the same.

Doug

Well, I think one thing that exemplifies your point is that the EU is currently in the process of suing the entire nation of Germany, a member of the EU, because of their letting a private company have sole use of property that that company owns. The EU is starting to remind me of the RIAA--sue everybody that made you what you are.
 

Martyr

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More often than not, these threads rapdily evolve into a Europe bashing thread, lambasting all Europeans as whining, limp wristed, spineless liberals.

I thought I would pre-emtively remind people that the actions of a few moronic politicians and lawyers does not, in any way, reflect the opinions, wishes, desires or beliefs of the public of Europe in any way.

To cover all Europeans with the same brush is akin to assuming every US citizen is 100% behind GWB in everything he does....which is simply not true.

Frankly, as a Brit and thus a European - I'd rather the EU stopped spending my taxes on this utterly pointless crap and spent it doing something usefull.

It's the same with the Vista pricing bull - a thread on that was, as a European, a hiddeous thing to read, the hatred and vitriol point in my direct because of the actions of a few and the redeployment of the 'they're all the same' simplistic thinking was unjustified, idiotic and frankly, pathetic.

I hope, for once, [H] and HF members can differentiate between Europe, and the morons who run the EU. They are not the same.

Doug

well, can the european members of the internet differentiate between citizens of the united states, and its govt/leaders?
 

stabilep

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i would liek to point out that most bashing does appear to be poitned at and referenced as EU and not as Europe. In most cases I think people know that its the leadership in the EU and not the people of Europe just like when people say "The US was retarded to start the war in Iraq" I do not take that to mean the people of the US everyone of them started the war but as Our Government.
 

Riddlinkidstoner

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Don't get me wrong, Europe is great...fancy dining and cheap booze but I mean for christ sake find better people to run that damn place.
 

Riddlinkidstoner

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Don't get me wrong, Europe is great...fancy dining and cheap booze but I mean for christ sake find better people to run that damn place.

EDIT: eh...not that the USA is any better
 

drizzt81

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We should just stop posting EU MS garbage here... I'm getting so tired of the EU crap.

I am too. It always turns into a fest of "omfg how dare the EU fine Microsoft...."

can someone explain how the EU has any right/power to fine MS..........:confused:

MS has offices in Europe and does business there. Just like the US government could fine Porsche, BMW and Mercedes if they were found guilty of anticompetitive behavior, the EU can fine a company that is active in Europe when it was found guilty. I really don't see how this concept is so difficult to understand.
 

mitcity22

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Anticompetitive behavior????? MS doesn't have any REAL competition so the EU should just relax.....or keep taking money from MS, doesn't really effect me.
 

k1pp3r

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Microsoft just needs to put in a hostile big to buy out the EU, problems resolved.
 

whrswoldo

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Microsoft just needs to put in a hostile big to buy out the EU, problems resolved.
seconded.

And because it seems so fitting...
americanworld.jpg
 

Team Obi Juan

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The EU should come after our RIAA... leave MS the hell alone.

Our RIAA > MS in terms of pain in the ass
 

impar

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Greetings!

Amazing as Microsoft still hasnt complied to a 2004 decision. The decision clearly asked Microsoft to make its server protocols available, for a fee, to its competitors.
Considering Microsoft products are predominant, without the server protocols, Microsoft competitors havent a chance to compete.

Dont be fooled to think EU is anti-Microsoft, a week ago escalators/elevators companies were fined $1,3 Billion for price fixing cartel actions:
European Union regulators on Wednesday fined United Technologies' Otis unit and four other elevator makers $1.3 billion for operating cartels for the installation and maintenance of elevators and escalators in Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands.
...
Fined were Hartford, Conn.-based United Technologies Corp., the corporate parent of Otis Elevator; German conglomerate ThyssenKrupp AG; Finland's Kone Corp.; Switzerland's Schindler Holding AG; and subsidiaries of Japan's Mitsubishi Elevator Europe BV.


If the actions or omissions of a company working in EU space threatens competition, it WILL get fined. How much lobbying the company can make is irrelevant.
Everything else is just EU bashing. It may ne fashionable but its also irrational.
 

k1pp3r

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The problem with the above post is that Mac gets away with a lot of what MS is getting sued for, minus the server protocols. If you buy mac os you get apps in box that MS got sued over several times, its just getting annoying

Oh and about the maps posted, we will mind control the dragons to attack the commies. I love the empty space part though, lol
 

impar

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Greetings!
The problem with the above post is that Mac gets away with a lot of what MS is getting sued for, minus the server protocols. If you buy mac os you get apps in box that MS got sued over several times, its just getting annoying...
Competition laws dont apply to Apple.
Apple has 2-2,5% of the PC market. It can not use that to force its penetration in other markets.

Its like the proverbial Apple to orange comparison. ;)
 

k1pp3r

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Greetings!Competition laws dont apply to Apple.
Apple has 2-2,5% of the PC market. It can not use that to force its penetration in other markets.

Its like the proverbial Apple to orange comparison. ;)


No, if they are going to enforce their laws, they apply to EVERYONE, you don't pick and choose based on who has more money.
 

impar

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Greetings!

Where reads competition laws replace by anti-competition laws, or anti-trust laws.
Forum doesnt allow me to edit by my own post... :confused:

Microsoft was found guilty of abusing its dominant position in the OS market, Apple isnt in the position to abuse its position in any market - maybe MP3 players (?).
 

Scorpionjwp

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Greetings!

And somehow I knew after the other string of events that the EU pulled with MS, this was going to happen again and again and again.

It's like they have this playbook with MS fines that are sorted by month, next it will probally be the EU asking MS to separate Outlook from windows, then with Calculator separated for easier use.

Next up Brazil VS Microsoft, that ain't happening because they went to Linux.
 

whrswoldo

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Greetings!

Amazing as Microsoft still hasnt complied to a 2004 decision. The decision clearly asked Microsoft to make its server protocols available, for a fee, to its competitors.
Considering Microsoft products are predominant, without the server protocols, Microsoft competitors havent a chance to compete.

Dont be fooled to think EU is anti-Microsoft, a week ago escalators/elevators companies were fined $1,3 Billion for price fixing cartel actions:
European Union regulators on Wednesday fined United Technologies' Otis unit and four other elevator makers $1.3 billion for operating cartels for the installation and maintenance of elevators and escalators in Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands.
...
Fined were Hartford, Conn.-based United Technologies Corp., the corporate parent of Otis Elevator; German conglomerate ThyssenKrupp AG; Finland's Kone Corp.; Switzerland's Schindler Holding AG; and subsidiaries of Japan's Mitsubishi Elevator Europe BV.


If the actions or omissions of a company working in EU space threatens competition, it WILL get fined. How much lobbying the company can make is irrelevant.
Everything else is just EU bashing. It may ne fashionable but its also irrational.
Did you read the article? MS has made the protocols available although EU decided that the fees were "unreasonable". Considering the massive fines they have been levying against MS and others, I don't think they understand the meaning of the word "reasonable".
 

impar

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Greetings!
Did you read the article?
The two-setences article linked in the main page? Yes, of course.
MS has made the protocols available although EU decided that the fees were "unreasonable".
Microsoft has delivered what they claim to be the protocols, EC hasnt yet evaluated if its satisfied with them.
Regarding the fees, what Microsoft and EC agreed was that they should be proportional to the innovation involved. What EC is challenging is too high a fee to too low innovation.
 

whrswoldo

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Greetings!The two-setences article linked in the main page? Yes, of course.
Microsoft has delivered what they claim to be the protocols, EC hasnt yet evaluated if its satisfied with them.
Regarding the fees, what Microsoft and EC agreed was that they should be proportional to the innovation involved. What EC is challenging is too high a fee to too low innovation.

Two sentences is not the same as 2 paragraphs.

The EU commission has evaluated the protocols and they are not satisfied with them, that is the reason they are threatening MS with fines...

The EU is requiring MS to sell away trade secrets and is determining the price and quality completely at its own discretion. What the hell is the point if having trademarks or trade secrets if you can be required by some governing body to share them with your competitors for a price you have no control of?
 

impar

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Greetings!
What the hell is the point if having trademarks or trade secrets if you can be required by some governing body to share them with your competitors for a price you have no control of?
If it were a market where competition worked, I could agree with your indignation, being a monopoly market, I can not.
 

whrswoldo

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Greetings!If it were a market where competition worked, I could agree with your indignation, being a monopoly market, I can not.

Conceding that it is a monopoly market (which it is not, particularly in the server market), to what extent should MS be compelled to assist their competition?

If they were to disclose updated and complete information on their workgroup servers to their competition for free, what then would you ask of them if they maintained their dominance? Should they then hand over boxes of cash to their competitors or dissolve as a company?

Pardon my cynicism, but I don't see the EU pulling back their pressure on MS any time soon, regardless of the actions MS takes.
 

impar

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Greetings!

Recap:
Microsoft has a dominant position in the OS market and abuses it to penetrate in other markets.
EC is against these abuses, fines and orders Microsoft to make ammends.
Microsoft stalls for three years and launches a PR campaign to defend its actions.

What I dont understand is how the regulatory body in the USA just rolls over.
 

k1pp3r

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Greetings!

Recap:
Microsoft has a dominant position in the OS market and abuses it to penetrate in other markets.
EC is against these abuses, fines and orders Microsoft to make ammends.
Microsoft stalls for three years and launches a PR campaign to defend its actions.

What I dont understand is how the regulatory body in the USA just rolls over.


They didn't roll over, the US court found that MS was not a monopoly, just because they own intelectual property just like every other company does not make them one. MS is being slammed hard by the EU for the same stuff other companies get away with. I personally think it is wrong for any gov to say a company has to expose their trade secrets.
 

bob

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More often than not, these threads rapdily evolve into a Europe bashing thread, lambasting all Europeans as whining, limp wristed, spineless liberals.

Well, to say the least, this wasnt an issue untill you made that post.
 

whrswoldo

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Greetings!

Recap:
Microsoft has a dominant position in the OS market and abuses it to penetrate in other markets.
EC is against these abuses, fines and orders Microsoft to make ammends.
Microsoft stalls for three years and launches a PR campaign to defend its actions.

What I dont understand is how the regulatory body in the USA just rolls over.

You seem to be mistaking facts with your opinions.

This article isn't even about MS getting into other markets; it centers around the EU commission trying to assist MS's competitors in the market that they (and you) view MS as dominant in.

I find it amusing that you and others berate MS for using an advantage to penetrate into markets they have no presence in and yet you have no problem with the government mandating that MS give an advantage to their competition in order to help the competition penetrate markets they already have some presence in. Double standard much?:rolleyes:
 
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