EU Says Microsoft Continues Abuse

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Neelie Kroes, the head of the European Union, says that Microsoft is getting positive results through abusive behavior. Kroes is upset that the company has doubled its market share since the EU first filed suit against it in 1999.

The Commission said Microsoft had a 35 percent 40 percent share of the workgroup server market in 1999 when the EU executive began its investigation. Between 2001 and 2003 that grew to 60 percent, and now Microsoft has 70 to 75 percent of the market.
 

Spazilton

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Another lawsuit should have Microsoft at 100% market share in no time :D

And then they should just completly pull out of the EU, stating they feel the only way they can comply with the EU regulations, is to not sell in that market.
 

roccovw

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Seems that if a company supplies a product that a lot of people buy then it becomes abuse.
I don't recall any news headlines stating Microsoft officials where pointing guns and forcing people to buy their products.
 

Toytown

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And then they should just completly pull out of the EU, stating they feel the only way they can comply with the EU regulations, is to not sell in that market.

Which would end there dominence in the operating systems/office products and almost certainly lead to there collapse.

If they pull from the EU market (which is probably the same size as the US market), then that would mean that EU companies change to linux (probably the only option), which would pretty much be the start of a small avalanche that MS does not want and quite frankly i doubt they recover from.

When big losses or changes come to big sized corporations, you find that there ability to cope with the change quick enough is simply not there and they simply hemorrage money/resources trying to move people around/deal with redundancies/change of staff etc etc, and they end up in a total mire, believe me ive worked for one during this change, and you can see it in all kinds corporations just now (motor companies etc etc). This is what would happen to MS if they lost there EU base.
 

syntx

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They seem to hate successful foreign companies. They have Apple and Microsoft in their crosshair and I am sure they are looking at others.
 

Ockie

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They seem to hate successful foreign companies. They have Apple and Microsoft in their crosshair and I am sure they are looking at others.

I'm sure they target all the foreign companies. I know they are not impressed by our big suv' either.
 

Jiffylush

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Maybe they should sue Novell, their failure is what lead to the MS dominance you see today in the server market.
 

Brokennails

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Yep, it is a welfare generation.... it is always someone elses fault, show up for work and work as little as possible and get a nice full paycheck. I love Linux, but until it becomes a gaming platform, I will stick to MS. Now here is where the EU would say to MS, you must give Linux etc your DX architecture, but not only that, it is your burden to make it compatible with Linux.

Complete BS. I have never seen anything where you are reprimanded for making something that the general populous wants, and then being critisized for it, and asked to give away your intellectual property that you worked hard for, or purchased from someone that did ;) ... That is like your neighbor that has a nicer job, house wife and kids, and you can go to court and demand that he forks over his mojo to you since he has an unfair advantage, or is more handsome than you, so he now has a monopoly.

Nothing like free money from a company that can't ditch your ass becasue they would lose valuable business and customers. Who's next? Sony and Nintendo for unfairly making the PS3 and Wii better than anything the EU puts out?

This is getting ridiculous.
 

SticKx911

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Just because they pull out does not mean vendors would not be able to import it from the US. The EU would be pissed if they lost sales tax and rev. from people buying software from the US.
 

sam0t

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I find bafling that people who know nothing about the whole case/law system still have so many constuctive points to give in this thread. I quess it did not cross anybodys mind that US and EU might have different views about abusive corporate behaviour.
 

GJSNeptune

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Gee, I thought everyone here thought everyone has the same viewpoints. You mean people's views differ? No way.
 

Toytown

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Just because they pull out does not mean vendors would not be able to import it from the US. The EU would be pissed if they lost sales tax and rev. from people buying software from the US

Well you still have to pay tax in the EU to import goods (from outside the EU), so they wouldnt lose that much.

Also i doubt that much if US versions of the software, came in the multitude of languages necessary to support all the countries in the EU. it might support the keyboard layouts, but it wouldnt support the languages. At this point, EU companies who dont speak english would be left with little choice in there software choice of OS and as soon as you remove windows OS, you can forget about people buying office etc etc, which is where MS makes most of its money.
 

MH Knights

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Looks like the European aristocracy needs more money hats to wear while their people starve and live in squallar. Has anyone questioned where all the settle money is going to?
 

impar

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Greetings!

The only way to force Microsoft to play fair is to increase the fines.
ECs decision is dated 2004, DoJs decision is dated 2001, and Microsoft continues to stall.

As was posted in the other thread:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/07/microsoft_delay/
Funny as this one didnt make front page. Guess the EU bashing is what is fashionable currently.
 

GJSNeptune

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I'm not convinced that they aren't playing fair. Is anyone besides the EU getting pissy about them?
 

FlatLine84

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What the heck? After reading that article, I feel less intelligent. I don't see anything wrong with this:

"Workgroup servers connect to Windows desktop computers, and the Commission found Microsoft products work far more smoothly than the servers of competitors, giving Microsoft an edge."

It's like Duh! I mean, the first analogy I come up with, would be the EU wanting Ford to share it's uni-body designs so that Chevy components would fit better on it.

You buy a product, do some research first, we all know that the only thing MS stuff plays well with, is MS stuff. If we're that lucky.
 

whrswoldo

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I find it very amusing that when these lawsuits began MS had less than a 50% share and yet there were still tardnuggets running around screaming monopoly and demanding fines.

Monopoly:
mo·nop·o·ly /məˈnɒpəli/ Pronunciation[muh-nop-uh-lee]
–noun, plural -lies.
1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices. Compare duopoly, oligopoly.
2. an exclusive privilege to carry on a business, traffic, or service, granted by a government.
3. the exclusive possession or control of something.
4. something that is the subject of such control, as a commodity or service.
5. a company or group that has such control.
6. the market condition that exists when there is only one seller.

Hmm sounds exactly like a 35% to 40% market share.:rolleyes:

Has it ever occurred to to any of you EU huggers that maybe MS just makes a superior product?

The more of these lawsuits I see the more I want to go out and buy stuff from MS.
 

whrswoldo

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Left out my favorite quote:

...the Commission found Microsoft products work far more smoothly than the servers of competitors, giving Microsoft an edge.

The edge exists only because Microsoft refuses to share information with competitors, the Commission has held.

HA! Lets replace Microsoft with the most universal word(s?) in the world, CocaCola:

...the Commission found CocaCola products work[taste] far more smoothly than the servers[beverages] of competitors, giving CocaCola an edge.

The edge exists only because CocaCola refuses to share information[recipes] with competitors, the Commission has held.

How STUPID does that sound?
 

Riddlinkidstoner

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"Workgroup servers connect to Windows desktop computers, and the Commission found Microsoft products work far more smoothly than the servers of competitors, giving Microsoft an edge."

Thats like...wow. I really must hand it to the EU, your like the Church of Scientology of the corporate world...turn anything around if you pay your lawyers enough.
 

Gorankar

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The money grab continues.. The EU's idea of abuse differs greatly from ours here in the US..
Any foreign company making more than the slimmest of profits, must be abusing their market power somehow, seems to be the standard EU view.. It absolutely could not be because Windows pretty much rules on the compatibility front or their massive installed user base..

It is a chicken and egg thing.. If you don't have massive hardware and software compatibility, people will hesitate to go to your OS.. If massive numbers people don't go to your OS, hardware and software developers/writers will hesitate to support your product at the same level they do Windows.. The OS market is quite simply, an extremely difficult market to break in to..
All MS has to do is not suck too badly and they will stay right where they are.. On top.. I guess that is considered abuse..

And who would buy media player software when there are so many different free ones on the net???
 

impar

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Greetings!
I find it very amusing that when these lawsuits began MS had less than a 50% share and yet there were still tardnuggets running around screaming monopoly and demanding fines.
Monopoly:
...
Doesnt apply. You should had looked for trust/antitrust.
Where a company has a dominant position in one area of market and uses it to gain advantages in other areas, forcing its competitors out and establishing another dominant position. The process is repeated until the entire market is controlled by that company.
Reaching that level, the only option to market regulators is to force the split of the company in minor entities.
It has happened before and will probably happen again.
The EU's idea of abuse differs greatly from ours here in the US..
It does not. Its the same, only that the lobbying procedures in Washington are much more efficient.
If you had read the link I left on the other post, you had got it.
The US Department of Justice told a federal judge it is unhappy with Microsoft's plans to extend a deadline for supplying technical information to licensees documenting how Windows communicates with operating systems and middleware made by other companies.

US DoJ is trying to enforce a 2001 decision on Microsoft.
EU EC is trying to enforce a 2004 decision on Microsoft.
The difference between the two approaches to the problem is that ECs is fining Microsoft.
 

marcusj3000

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The EU fines MS for being the dominate company in it's particular market. Their theory is that it needs to share it's intellectual property with it's competitors which is not how you do business. New's flash to the EU "every companies goal is to become the dominate company in there market" HELLO!

MS put itself into this position because it had one of the best products and no one else wanted to challenge them to a degree. The computer market IMO is not big enough to support a large amount of OS makers. The software makers have spoken that the fewer the OS choices the better because they don't have to write code to support a vast array of OS's.

If they want to crack down on monopolies and open up competition so to speak lets go after the utility companies also because I want the right to chose who I get water,gas, and electricity from.
 

Slozz

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its called local protectionism, the whole EU was formed to counter US domination, and they saw fit to start this by destroying US companies but they didn't realize the domination derives from superior technologies.
 

-Axiom-

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If they want to crack down on monopolies and open up competition so to speak lets go after the utility companies also because I want the right to chose who I get water,gas, and electricity from.


I would like a choice as too whom provides my cable internet service....
Every month I feel as though i've been raped....:mad:
 

LoneWolf

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Since when did the EU become socialist? They sure seem to be acting like it in this case.

If Microsoft is successful, what is wrong with that? Their server products hold marketshare because they are at least reasonably powerful and not too difficult to work with/administer. I think the EU politicos words are an attempt to secure funding through fines or taxation.

Are there any EU-native (heck, even global) companies with similar market dominance in their respective fields that the EU is griping about in this manner? I'd be interested to know. Furthermore, who does the EU think should be gaining marketshare against Microsoft? There aren't a whole lot of other companies out there making enterprise server software. I don't seel Novell/SuSe being persecuted by Microsoft in the server market, nor OS X Server.

If I think Microsoft's playing bully, I'll be the first to say something. But I think the EU governments are attempting to be the bully in this case, and they're starting to come off as first-class whiners.
 

whrswoldo

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The article clearly states that the EU began investigating when MS had a 35-40% market share. I think that 35-40% is clearly not "dominant." Which market are you implying they were dominant in and "abusing" to gain workstation market share?
 

[Spectre]

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Why isn't the EU fining EADS?



Oh wait because they are from the EU. Got it.
 

impar

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Greetings!
its called local protectionism, the whole EU was formed to counter US domination, and they saw fit to start this by destroying US companies but they didn't realize the domination derives from superior technologies.
Opens the question if big corporations have nationality.
Even so, the last EC big decision affects mostly european companies:
ThyssenKrupp - Germany (?) - 479.7 million euros
Otis - USA (?) - 224.9 million euros
Schindler - Germany (?) - 143.7 million euros
Kone Oyj - Finland - 142.1 million euros
Mitsubishi - Japan (?) - 1.8 million euros
Total - 992.3 million euros - 1,321.55 million $US

Values taken from here:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aYGM5oU7FC4c&refer=home
The article also have other examples of fines imposed in other misbehaved companies.
Which market are you implying they were dominant in and "abusing" to gain workstation market share?
You can read it here:
http://ec.europa.eu/comm/competition/antitrust/cases/microsoft/investigation.html
http://ec.europa.eu/comm/competition/antitrust/cases/microsoft/court.html
http://ec.europa.eu/comm/competition/antitrust/cases/microsoft/implementation.html
Why isn't the EU fining EADS?
Based on what?
Who buys A320s have to buy Typhoons?
Who uses Arianes have to buy Tigers?
 

Scorpionjwp

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I am really starting to believe we have a European Union politician ^ here in these threads related to do anything about the EU.

Next it will be EU vs Apple, fining them because of unfair competition there. Why can't they just do like Brazil, switch to Linux or develop a form of Linux then kick microsoft out of the country. It not like their running windows ME or 95 there.
 

Ockie

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I'm waiting till the day that the EU somehow entangles into the RIAA/MPAA....

Now that would be the day that I bust out the popcorn and the lawnchair.
 

impar

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Greetings!
I am really starting to believe we have a European Union politician ^ here in these threads related to do anything about the EU.
Yep. [H]forum is a top priority to the EC.






Joking.

Come on, if anyone defends EC the entire thread is just an UE/EC bashing thread.
 

ianken

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LOL at the person who cites The Register as a source. Seriously. These are the guys who claimed MSFT canceld Media Center a few years ago.

Yet another cash grab by the EU. That is all it this is.

ZOMG! MSFT servers dont suck as much as their (note correct use of "their") competitors. Sue them and demand equal medeocrity!
 

impar

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HardOCP News

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The part that really kills me about all of this is that, out of 26 countries paying money into the EU, Microsoft pays more than 20 of them COMBINED.

http://www.I Don't Work Here Any More.com/EU_budget.gif

I feel bad for our friends in Germany, UK and Italy, they foot almost the entire EU budget. Next comes Netherlands and France...followed by Microsoft. The other 20 members pay nothing or get subsidies.
 

impar

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Greetings!
The part that really kills me ...
I can bring you to life, then.
Outside of USA a Billion is a million millions. Its 1 followed by 12 zeros: 1,000,000,000,000.
NOT 1 followed by 9 zeros: 1,000,000,000.
;)
 

impar

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And the chart is for net givers and takers.
If you split Germanys value in West Germany and East Germany, the west would be a even greater net giver and the East would probably be a net taker.
Samething for Spain. Regions like Madrid, Valencia and Barcelona would be net givers and regions like Extremadura and Andaluzia would be net takers.

Post edit option is disabled in this part of the forum, right?
 
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