EU plan to fit cars with speed limiters could be UNSAFE

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Master_shake_, Mar 26, 2019.

  1. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    It will be tied into the car's computer, and any attempt to deactivate it will result in disabling the car.
     
  2. Hashiriya415

    Hashiriya415 [H]Lite

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    But you can run custom computer.
     
  3. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Well, if it becomes reality, I think new car sales will be close to zero. At least I hope people won't willingly buy something designed to control them. But then again, they use facebook.
     
  4. termite

    termite [H]ardness Supreme

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    Some cars use the built in cameras that read the lanes for adaptive cruise control, to also "read" the speed limit signs. Our GLC has it, and so far it has been completely accurate, much more accurate then the GPS/map based version I have with Andoid auto.

    The tricky bit though are the miles of adaptive speed limits they have in Germany and some parts of France (maybe elsewhere) where the speed limit signs are digital billboards that change dynamically as traffic increases. I don't think the camera system reads those signs, I'll check next time I'm driving the GLC on the Autobahn.
     
  5. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yeah, I've seen one of those systems tested in real world scenarios:
    1. It often mistakes the speed limit of the sliproad for the speed limit of the highway
    2. It will detect all signs with a similarly sized number on them as a speed limit, even those that actually mark the end of a speed restriction zone, or the number of the highway exit.
    3. They can't recognize conditional speed restrictions (you should be familiar with "bei nasse"), And that has completely different versions in different countries, for us it's an actual picture of a stormcloud.
    4. What about sections where different lanes have different speed limits?
    5. What about vandalized speed signs that have spraypaint over them?
    Can they make the systems completely infallible in 2 years? I doubt that. Or if they can then we're better off with fully self driving cars, mixing a human with a robot, is a recipe for disaster.
     
  6. ND40oz

    ND40oz [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The camera's can read the variable speed limit signs, comes in handy when you're making your way through a stau and they finally open things back up. The tricky ones are the when they're lane specific speeds, between that and exit speeds that the cameras will sometime read when you're in the right hand lanes, the systems aren't perfect enough to have them start slamming on the brakes for you just based on what sign it reads.
     
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  7. termite

    termite [H]ardness Supreme

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    And I have used the system repeatedly with no noticable issues. To include the circle with crossed out number for the end of the speed restrictions. It also reads the passing restrictions on B roads.

    I do not recall it ever popping up a speed restriction for Bei Nass limits, but it may recognize the fact those signs have a specific symbol (Bei Nass with a car over wavy lines).

    The only one I question are the digital billboard signage. But those symbols are exactly the same circle with the limit inside, just via LED billboards.

    Not really sure about different speed limits in different lanes. However at least in Germany the speed limit signs are posted on both the left and right side of the road, or on billboards that span the highway when there are several lanes.

    One other time it can fail though is if you are in a center lane, and the sign is obstructed by a truck on one side, and another vehicle on the other.

    Mercedes and BMW have had the system since 2008, some other manufacturers, like VW and Volvo have had it since at least 2012, so they will not be designing a system in only two years, the technology already exists and is in use.

    As much as I hate quoting Wiki, thier page on the system has a list of cars that have a working traffic sign reasing system. It is a pretty big, incomplete list.

    But like I said, in my practical experience, the system works very well and is significantly more accurate then the GPS/map based systems.

    The bigger issue will be the EU enforcing the standardization of road signs needed for a system like this to be included as a standard feature.

    Edit: And this is not to say I agree with the ruling, it is idiotic, just that the sign systems work, in my experience.
     
  8. ND40oz

    ND40oz [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I have to say, Volvo's system works really well. For example, in France if I have the wipers on it will show the speed limit as 110 instead of 130 on the highway when they drop the speed if it's raining. For conditional speeds, like Bei Nass or the time based ones they'll show the speed but have the little rectangular sign below effectively showing you that it is conditional. It won't show you what the condition is, but at least it's alerting to you that there is one.

    BMW's system doesn't go quite that far, but it's far better at not reading the exit speed limit signs if you're not exiting. Both have no issues reading the digital signs, they'll even grab the ones on the back of the maintenance vehicles that they use to block a lane when they're doing quick maintenance like cutting the grass or trimming the trees/hedges.
     
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  9. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I don't doubt it works 99% of the time. However if they want to enforce speeds it needs to read the speed limit correctly all the time.
     
  10. termite

    termite [H]ardness Supreme

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    Maybe, but I'd be willing to bet it is more accurate and reads the signs better than the average driver.
     
  11. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The driver wouldn't slow to 30 on a highway even if he mistook a 130 sign for 30.
     
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  12. termite

    termite [H]ardness Supreme

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    No, they wouldn't see the sign at all.
     
  13. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Which is way better than forcing the car to slow down to 30 on the middle of a highway. I mean come on, this is not hard to figure out, why do I need to spoon feed this to you? Or are you just another contrarian?
     
  14. termite

    termite [H]ardness Supreme

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    edit: Not worth replying
     
  15. c3k

    c3k 2[H]4U

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    Deleted. Because anything the Eurocrats end up doing isn't surprising.
     
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  16. llukas

    llukas n00b

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    Original poster omitted "Driver can override system by pushing harder on accelerator". Nobody really looked at the article? Moral outrage is cheap. kthxbye
     
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  17. Dodge245

    Dodge245 Limp Gawd

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    Yea i spotted that, i suppose it depends how much it interferes, basically every car is going to feel like it has turbo lag?
     
  18. llukas

    llukas n00b

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    I had car with speed limiter that driver can set. You override by pushing harder on gas and disengaging limit was never a problem.
     
  19. God whale

    God whale n00b

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    No i totally am. People drive 70 mph all the time on a speed limit of 50 and there aren't a constant barrage of flaming wrecks left and right on that highway.
    I am not talking about the physics behind a 50 mph crash vs a 70 mph crash, i'm talking about people driving on a road. Literally no difference in safety
     
  20. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Heh. In my limited times driving in Europe, almost nobody follows the speed limit. In Ireland, I recall people driving 50 MPH in a 50 KMH zone. In Italy, it was even worse. In Austria, in dense fog , at night, in the mountains, people flew past us like were were parked.

    In the U.S., I recall a cop saying, while writing me a ticket, "you have cruise control. Set it to 9mph over the limit and nobody will mess with you."

    So 9mph seems like the limit.

    5mph under is dangerous. IMO, unless the weather is bad.
     
  21. Dodge245

    Dodge245 Limp Gawd

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    You sure about the Ireland Drivers speeding? Part of the country uses MPH (Northern Ireland), while the other use KMH (Republic of Ireland).
     
  22. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It was the republic. Haven't made it to Northern Ireland yet (though I'm surprised they aren't metric. I thought all of the UK was metric (though I've never driven in England. I'll add it was almost 20 years ago that I"m referring to. I drove there 2 years ago, but it was mostly back roads mostly after a Ophelia hit (which caused way more damage that a Cat 1 would on the Gulf Coast.
    It's possible that things have changed, but I didn't drive mroe than a few miles at a time and I don't recall how fast we were going (it was a bit of a caravan).
     
  23. Nenu

    Nenu [H]ardened

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    UK is completely old school mph.
    Odd thing, before the internet most people here thought the USA was metric lol.

    ps mainland Ireland is also known as Eire (in Irish).
     
  24. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Only place I've seen metric used is Arizona. For at least 45 or 50 years their highways have had speeds in kmh and mph (think the distances are in both too, but I could be wrong).

    I don't know if we'll ever move to the metric. I will say that gallon jugs use to also have the number of cups, pints or ounces. Now it just lists gallons and liters, so I guess we could get to metric before I die. My guess is we'll list liters first and gallons in small print and eventually drop that. I'm not sure when we'll switch to metric temperatures (if ever).
     
  25. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Temporarily.

    The person who came up with that bright idea probably never driven a car more powerful than 50kw / ton. Imagine pressing down hard on the accelerator in a high powered real wheel drive car.
     
  26. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I know it's hard to admit when you're wrong.

    Or do you actually think missing a 130 sign is more dangerous than slowing down to 30 on the highway? Be honest.