Ethernet-over-power fast locally, but slow internet?

RedShark

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 8, 2003
Messages
1,939
I've got two Netgear PLP1200 ethernet-over-power devices (I know, bear with me). The setup looks like this:

Configuration A:
Computer (Windows 10, six cores, 32GB RAM) <-> Ethernet cable <-> PLP1200 <-> in wall power <-> PLP1200 <- Ethernet -> 30mbps internet connection. The two PLP1200s are in adjacent outlets, just a few feet from each other, and on the same circuit.

My internet speeds are terrible in this configuration, around 1mbps (that's 1 megabit/s). In contrast, Netgear's crappy software utility reports that the units are connected at around 800mbps.

I then reconfigured (Configuration B):
Computer (Windows 10, six cores, 32GB RAM) <-> Ethernet cable <-> PLP1200 <-> in wall power <-> PLP1200 <- Ethernet cable <-> Netgear R7000 with DDWRT <-> 30mbps internet connection.

In B, copying large files to other machines from my machine via the R7000 is fast, around 20MB/s (megabytes/s). However, the computer's internet access remains painfully slow, at around 1 megabit/s. This result makes little sense. The powerline adapter clearly can deliver high speed in this configuration, because I'm copying big files over it on the local network. Only when going to the Internet does performance tank.

Finally, to be clear, consider Configuration C:
Computer (Windows 10, six cores, 32GB RAM) <-> Ethernet cable <-> Netgear R7000 with DDWRT <-> internet connection

In this case, Internet/LAN performance are both great, at around 30mbps for Internet. Thus, I'm mystified: something about the powerline adapter is interfering with decent Internet performance, but leaves local network performance unaffected.

Now, in configuration B, I tried a ping test to my ISPs gateway, and got this:
Ping statistics for 50.X.X.X:
Packets: Sent = 1000, Received = 745, Lost = 255 (25% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 2ms, Maximum = 95ms, Average = 6ms

That result provides a superficial explanation for the shitty performance. In configuration C, there's no packet loss for the same test! So the question is: what could possibly be causing these results?

I considered MTU size, by running the following test in configuration B, but that's not it:
> ping -f -l 1473 -n 2 50.X.X.X

Pinging 50.X.X.X with 1473 bytes of data:
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.

Ping statistics for 50.X.X.X:
Packets: Sent = 2, Received = 0, Lost = 2 (100% loss),

> ping -f -l 1472 -n 2 50.X.X.X

Pinging 50.X.X.X with 1472 bytes of data:
Reply from 50.X.X.X: bytes=1472 time=28ms TTL=63
Reply from 50.X.X.X: bytes=1472 time=7ms TTL=63

Ping statistics for 50.X.X.X:
Packets: Sent = 2, Received = 2, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 7ms, Maximum = 28ms, Average = 17ms

These results correspond to the 1500 MTU standard.

What in the world am I overlooking?
 
I can't eplain what is happening to you but I can tell you this.

I have couple 500mbps power of Ethernet adapters. Whilst they tend to work just fine for me, as a HAM radio operator, I can tell you they are the noisiest contraptions other than a bad power line outside the house. They put out so much noise across such a widespread set of frequencies that it boggled my mind. They are transmitting this noise using power lines in house as antennas. The RF is ridiculous. It is possible that you just have some really really dirty devices and are clobbering your house with nasty RF and this might be in some way affecting your cable modem, DSL, or whatever you use. Just food for thought. Maybe switching adapters might solve the problem.
 
If they're that close, why not just get a cheap gigabit switch and some patch cables to connect to your R7000 from your modem and to the nics in the room?
 
If they're that close, why not just get a cheap gigabit switch and some patch cables to connect to your R7000 from your modem and to the nics in the room?

It's an experiment. I wanted to give these adapters the best possible operating circumstances. They actually provide decent local-network speed when located at the desired location (4MB/s), which is across the house, but Internet performance is shit either way, and I don't understand why.
 
I have couple 500mbps power of Ethernet adapters. Whilst they tend to work just fine for me, as a HAM radio operator, I can tell you they are the noisiest contraptions other than a bad power line outside the house. They put out so much noise across such a widespread set of frequencies that it boggled my mind. They are transmitting this noise using power lines in house as antennas. The RF is ridiculous. It is possible that you just have some really really dirty devices and are clobbering your house with nasty RF and this might be in some way affecting your cable modem, DSL, or whatever you use. Just food for thought. Maybe switching adapters might solve the problem.

Yeah, I believe it. That's an interesting hypothesis - are you speculating that by virtue of using the powerline adapters, it's causing interference between the modem and the ISP?

I just looked into testing the scenario in which one computer is using the powerline adapters, and another is connected directly to the router, to see if I could impact the second machine's Internet performance indirectly, but I don't have sufficient cabling. Hmmm.
 
Yeah, I believe it. That's an interesting hypothesis - are you speculating that by virtue of using the powerline adapters, it's causing interference between the modem and the ISP?

I just looked into testing the scenario in which one computer is using the powerline adapters, and another is connected directly to the router, to see if I could impact the second machine's Internet performance indirectly, but I don't have sufficient cabling. Hmmm.

Not between ISP and home modem. But RF does weird things to computers for instance whenever I first exposed my PC to RF generated by my HAM radio equipment I noticed things like USB disconnecting, blue screen, or system will just power off cold turkey. Example: On 21.300mhz when talking on Sideband, using my amplifier at any power output to the antenna outside my home of 400 watts or more, and I can do as high as 2300 watts output to the antenna,(1500 is my legal limit), my USB devices would randomly disconnect, or computer completely shutoff. I rectified that by using lots of ferrite split beads on all my usb cabling to suppress RF traveling through the cabling and it worked fine. However, this is a worst case scenario, and while many members of [H] are amateur radio stations, most of them are not. But it shows that RF is a nasty interference to computer devices. In my case several hundred watts at 21mhz caused my system to have all kinds of stability issues, which I rectified. But something as simple as really dirty powerline adapters can transmit enough wideband RF that it could have an interfering impact on sensitive electronics in the cable modem or router or even the network card of your PC. It all depends on frequency and amplitude of RF and the sensitivity to interference your networking devices has. Chances are none of this has anything to do with the OPs problem, but it is fun to discuss, and has merit potentially in his/her case.

Why else do we use heavily shielded Coax, and ferrite beads on power cords, and filtering capacitors in electronics and other means of removing dirty trash signals from our electronics. Also why does the FCC require that consumer devices be stamped with ... “This device complies with part 15 of FCC Rules.

1) This device may not cause harmful interference.

2) This device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation.”

Cable, DSL, even computer hardware, the owners have to be willing to accept these conditions. Might be the issue, might not. The only recourse we have to dirty electronics and foul smelling RF is to remove the offending devices and try other options. The FCC clearly draws the line, there is no legal recourse for anyone whom buys devices with the part 15 compliance attached to it.
 
This is completely excellent. Your posts convinced me I need to run this test.

Ping from my computer to ISP gateway via powerline network:
Ping statistics for 50.35.64.1:
Packets: Sent = 1000, Received = 714, Lost = 286 (28% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 2ms, Maximum = 619ms, Average = 7ms

Simultaneous ping from my R7000 router to the ISP gateway while my computer was hooked up via powerline network:
--- 50.35.64.1 ping statistics ---
3443 packets transmitted, 3048 packets received, 11% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 1.316/4.041/430.350 ms

Note: the key here is that the routers pings were not traversing the powerline network.

Now, powerline network removed, ping from my computer to ISP gateway over normal ethernet:

Ping statistics for 50.35.64.1:
Packets: Sent = 1000, Received = 991, Lost = 9 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 61ms, Average = 3ms

And the best part, ping from the R7000 to the ISP gateway, also with powerline network completely disconnected:
--- 50.35.64.1 ping statistics ---
1041 packets transmitted, 1029 packets received, 1% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 1.358/3.855/58.700 ms

I need to see if these results are repeatable. Assuming they are, we have an explanation, and it would seem that you're essentially correct. These results are so fantastic I'm having trouble believing them.
 
I just wanted to add that I've confirmed these results are reproducible; that is, merely by virtue of using the powerline network on one segment between my computer and the router, it appears to be inducing packet loss between my router and the ISP. I find this result amazing - I'd not have guessed it was possible.
 
Identified the problem. The Internet's coaxial cable was running through a power strip that has surge protection, like the one below.

www.amazon.com/APC-P11VT3-Performance-SurgeArrest-Protection/dp/B0012YLTR6

The noise introduced from the powerline network devices appears to "leak" into the surge protection mechanism for the coax. I simply plugged the modem straight into the wall. The in-wall cable actually runs outside of the house, and is clearly well-isolated from the powerline network. Fascinating results.

After changing this configuration, all the packet loss issues vanished, Internet performance returned to normal, and we could use the powerline network as intended. It's much faster than wireless and we avoided running a cat-5 cable all the way around the house and up a floor. Of course, had I known this whole exercise would turn into a goddamn science project, I'd probably have pursued the cat-5 from the start, heh.
 
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