Epson Pushing Firmware Upgrades That Disable Third-Party Ink Usage

The Mad Atheist said:
It'll print on your work if you like to upgrade the firmware for better quality. lol

Same here, got tired of buying ink because heads got clog because I didn't use it much and cleaning them really didn't help. I could just leave my laser printer untouched for months and works flawlessly when I needed it.
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I have an HP color Laser, and after a year, I'm still using the original toner.
Even better, it will use generic toner :D
Some of the managers at the office wanted to be able to print color at their desk, so I bought them all same color model while it was on sale.
Liked it so much, I bought one for home.
The generic toner is only about 1/4 the cost, so we same a bundle on toner, even though they occasion have early failures.

When I used an ink jet at home I wasted half the ink cleaning it each time I used it.

The wife/kids still use an ink jet all-in-one (with generic ink of course). When it fails, I'm tempted to replace it with a laser based color all-in-one.
It's just that the color laser units are 3 times the size.
 
T_A said:
Laser printer is great , but if you want color printing its too expensive for home usage, even corporations have some limits on color printing (technical or by rules)
generally speaking , if you don`t go for all-in-one ink jet printers , its cheaper to just replace the printer when it runs out of ink from the original cartridges .
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Color printing has gotten cheap enough that we don't regulate it at the office other than to tell people to use the black & white printers when possible.

I have several Color LaserJet Pro 400's at the office for small groups or in managers offices. A full set of generic toner (1 black and 3 colors) runs around $75.
That's good for 4,000 black prints and 2,600 color.
That price seems reasonable to me.
So reasonable I bought the same printer for home. (this was when they where on sale for $249 because a new model was coming out)
 
MatthewK said:
Personally I'm happy with my Canon Pixma MX922 printer, best printer I've ever had and I've had a lot of them going all the way back to an Epson dot matrix. 3rd party ink is super cheap too.
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That's the same all-in-one I got for the wife. Probably the best consumer ink jet you can buy.
Last one lasted about 4 years before the print head failed. It was just as cheap to just buy a new printer Amazon.
Also use generic ink.

Still, once this one fails, I'll probably replace it with a color laser all-in-one.
 
My Epson 3640 constantly gets firmware upgrades which I have no idea what they do, so I don't apply them. Probably these fixes to block 3rd party. I only use Epson ink though, so I never noticed.

One thing they do, that is absolutely crooked, is manually set the first cartridges to 50%. So I bought a new identical printer to replace my old one that died. I had brand new cartridges. I put them in the printer when it was first powered on, rather than the included 'starter' cartridges. They all showed up at 50%. I called Epson tech support to complain, so they sent me a new set of cartridges for free. Point is, they intentionally set the new in box 'starter' cartridges low to get you to buy sooner. Crooked.

On top of that the print heads for these are almost as much as a new printer. If it gets clogged, you're better off buying new. I think my next printer will be back to HP. Still crooked, but at least you get new print heads when you replace the cartridges.
 
likeman said:
i remember the days of daisy wheel printers (floor shaker)
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I still remember being impress when the original HP LaserJet was introduced :oldman:
Then the LaserJet II, 300DPI, 8 pages per minute, and had a list price of $2,495 :eek:

Back then I worked on Daisy wheel printers (anyone remember Diablo 630 printers, or the NEC 7730's)
Then it was dot-matrix, Epson FX-100's, Okidata , and Toshiba.

Of course everything was connected via parallel or serial ports, something no longer available on most new computers. :p
 
bigdogchris said:
One thing they do, that is absolutely crooked, is manually set the first cartridges to 50%. So I bought a new identical printer to replace my old one that died. I had brand new cartridges. I put them in the printer when it was first powered on, rather than the included 'starter' cartridges. They all showed up at 50%. I called Epson tech support to complain, so they sent me a new set of cartridges for free. Point is, they intentionally set the new in box 'starter' cartridges low to get you to buy sooner. Crooked.
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Most printer manufactures do this.
Even LaserJet printers come with half toners.
If you buy a new printer because it's the same cost as a set of ink or a toner, you end up losing out because they are only half full.
 
T_A said:
Laser printer is great , but if you want color printing its too expensive for home usage, even corporations have some limits on color printing (technical or by rules)
generally speaking , if you don`t go for all-in-one ink jet printers , its cheaper to just replace the printer when it runs out of ink from the original cartridges .
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I think color laser is cheaper than inkjet even for infrequent printers, at least if you consider use cost over the life of the thibg.

No more spending money on new ink cartridges since the old ones dried out.

I spent $190 for my HP m277c6 at Microcenter about 1.5 years ago. It is still on the starter cartridges:

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When I do have to buy the full sized replacement cartridges, I'll be out some money, but then I'll more or less have color printing for life!
 
Master_shake_ said:
fuck how long ago were we promised paperless offices?

the 80's, 90's?

we use more paper now i bet than ever.
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Computer and printers just generated more paper.
However, document imaging products are finally making headway into all the paper.
We've automated a large part of our invoicing so they are sent out electronically.
Many of our vendor now send us electronic invoices.

Reports are usually generated at PDF's and emailed to people instead of printing them.

We've significantly cut the number of file cabinets in the office, and are working on more automation to eliminate even more.

Even at home, instead of buying another file cabinet a few years ago, I bought a better scanner.
Now, if I have paperwork I might need to refer to some time in the future, I just scan it into my computer. Have a folder for each year.
95% of the stuff I never end up needing, but it only takes few MB's per year, and I have it if I ever need it.
At least with digital hoarding, the house doesn't end up a mess :p

Only thing that goes into the file cabinet, is stuff you would need the original of, or appliance manuals.
 
nutzo said:
Most printer manufactures do this.
Even LaserJet printers come with half toners.
If you buy a new printer because it's the same cost as a set of ink or a toner, you end up losing out because they are only half full.
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Since the ink cost itself is practically nothing, I wonder if the cartridges are actually half full or if the little memory chip is just set to show them as half full? Someone should weigh them and compare the difference.
 
epson has a proud history of trying to screw over the customer. i used to use their printers and nothing else because in the past they were great. i remember we got a stylus color 2 when i was fairly young, it just wouldn't die. one of the first ink jets out when they started coming into the home. i ended up taking it to college with me. still worked, but the colour print resolution was pretty awful...as expected. i wanted to print photos so i got a new epson (c86 i think?). the C86 decided to pack it in after about a year while my parents kept on going with the old stylus. it died maybe 3 or 4 years later, owed us nothing that's for sure.

replaced mine with an R340. paper loading mechanism failed after a little over a year. see a pattern here? got another cheap, kept the old one for parts. that one didn't seem to want to die, but yes i was using 3rd party ink. had some aftermarket cartridges that were designed to be refilled, just salvaged the chips off some old carts so the printer thought they were OEM. the problem was frequent clogging (didn't matter what ink i used) and the colour profile was way off for photos. never could get the jets properly clean, i even tried cleaning manually. still had scalelines on my photos. even with OEM ink, clogging was still a problem just not as bad.

my girlfriend at the time went through two epsons which both broke within her three years of college education. i think it's safe to say that these things were horribly unreliable. not sure what they're like now, not that i care.

i eventually gave up. i wasn't printing photos anymore. too much hassle to deal with. replaced the epson with a samsung B+W laser that does double sided. the samsung just works, doesn't give me a single tick of trouble. the R340 went to the local thrift store with the aftermarket carts, ink bottles and all. i was kind enough to attach instructions at least.

conclusion: epson can suck it.
 
Dk975 said:
Inkjets are such a ripoff. I like this video, , this guy tells it like it is, and I agree with all of it. Laser printers aren't too expensive. I picked up a Brother HL-2320D from Best Buy for $60. The replacement cartridges are $38 for a normal sized one and $53 for the XL one. Don't forget you have to change the drum for every 12 cartridges you use, and that runs about $50 to $80. This is a nice black and white laser, nice quality especially compared to inkjet black only and it super fast.
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Doesn't even need to be that expensive. You can refill laser cartridges for cheap. Just buy black toner in bulk (I haven't had trouble between brands, but your mileage may vary), it's dirt cheap. Pull the glued in plug on the side of the cartridge and poor in. Put plug back and tape it shut. It's just a powder. 3-4 carts worth of toner powder is like $20. You can do it with color laserjets as well, although it's tad more finicky getting the color just right, as different brands may have slightly different pigments for CMY.

Some carts require you to melt the plug out. You can do so with a soldering iron or heat a metal cylinder and push it through (clear all the debri / blow it out).

Many moons ago at one of my IT jobs the company had a contract with a printer service company. They'd just come put and fix jams/clean printers, they'd also deliver the refurbed carts. I bet they made a killing refurbing those, as they'd pick up the old one and swap in the cleaned / refilled one. The company was probably paying close to full price for those carts. $5 worth of powder and a little labor to clean it, killer margins.
 
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Mine just says no hp cartridge but still works. Just a pain these manufactures Rip customers off because of corporate greed. Why does new printer cheaper than replacement cartridges makes no sense. Just not ink but parts as well.
 
I use their inkwell printers. Its mega cheap and I have printed over 2k sheets and still have half a tank left of each color. Et4750 is my printer. Love the damn thing.
 
Burticus said:
HP Laserjet 3 or 4? I dug one of those out of the dumpster and it dimmed the lights in my entire house when it started printing. I think HP got rid of parallel port after LJ 4.
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LOL... Yep: LaserJet III

I've still got one more sealed cartridge.
 
c3k said:
LOL... Yep: LaserJet III

I've still got one more sealed cartridge.
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Had one of those. Good units. I do remember the lights dimming when it started printing. Replaced with a LJ-1200 which I still have. It is networked via a same era D-Link print server. For color, picked up a Dell 3110CN from their outlet store for under $300. That was 10 or so years ago. Still on the original toner carts. It was a replacement for an Epson color inkjet that usually required the head cleaning be ran before it would print decent.
 
that's why we have

1. ciss kits
2. people offering to buy spent genuine cartridges from you. (someone is making a some good change at your office )
 
Looks like I'll be adding Espon to the "do not buy" list. It won't be alone, there's also HP.
 
This thread reminds me to hug my brother laser printers with their 15 dollar high capacity toners.
 
I've been in the printer business for over 20 years now. I would encourage those who just need what is equivalent of "business graphics" to move to a low cost laser printer.
You can buy a small color laser printer for less than $200 now. If you need need to match Pantone color or need real photo printing, inkjet is still your best bet. Equivalents in laser printers for high quality output are more expensive. Large format color; that is still an inkjet (water based ink) business.

I've always been on the side of the manufactures in this argument. The knock off inks and toners sold by 3rd parties are usually far below the quality standards of the OEM products. That is the biggest issue. In many cases they can damage the printers. When this happens the customer does not say "that ink cause the my problem!" They will say that Xerox, or HP, or Lexmark, etc is a piece of junk!!
For many of the low end ink jet printer; the manufacturers were giving them away to make it up on the ink sales. Here comes a 3rd party that has NO SKIN IN THE GAME selling knock off ink or toners and undercutting you. They didn't spend millions on R&D, licencing, marketing etc, to develop and sell the printer. They are skating in and eating the cake someone else made.
Xerox was a American company and the pioneers in the printing business. Bankrupt and sold out to Fuji of Japan. Lexmark was another American company making top quality printers. Same deal. Sold out to a Chinese interest. These were American companies now owned by foreign ones. A big reason is because they were not allowed to recoup the damages to their company done by knock off ink and toner sellers.
 
Canon made the mistake of releasing a very good quality printer years ago. I have an IP4200, it still works perfectly, the ink never gums up in it, even after sitting for a year or more. And it still prints with perfect quality after over 10 years. Now they're trying to force people to buy new ones by not releasing drivers for new OS-es.

But why would I get rid of it? It has everything including the kitchen sink. Dual paper tray, cd printing, fully automatic duplex printing, photo printing, what else would I want?
 
Depending on the printer, if it detects off brand ink it may even print in a reduced quality mode. Because we can't guarantee the quality of the ink, it's to prevent damaging the super sensitive print heads that our ink is custom designed for. Third party ink isn't made to the exact excruciating design standards, so we can't trust it. Trust us, their ink isn't as good as ours.
 
T_A said:
Laser printer is great , but if you want color printing its too expensive for home usage, even corporations have some limits on color printing (technical or by rules)
generally speaking , if you don`t go for all-in-one ink jet printers , its cheaper to just replace the printer when it runs out of ink from the original cartridges .
Click to expand...

Maybe if you live 10 years ago. My $250-ish (on sale) Dell 825 wireless color laser has been going great for a couple years. Starter toner has lasted quite a while. I've replaced black, but not needed to replace color yet. Replacement toner is not cheap, but it's not like ink that streaks and bands after a while. For home printing at reasonably low volume it's been the perfect printer. Watch Dell for sales and you can get this thing cheap. The key is to get something meant for small office. My experience with printers intended for home use is that they're GARBAGE. Every brand inkjet or laser, they simply cut too many corners inkjets start streaking / banding in short order. Lasers have drums that start having issues like 500 pages or less.

My workplace has zero restriction on color printing for several years. You just connect to the copier / printer combo thing and print whatever you want. Color laser is quite usable for people who aren't starving college student income level.
 
nutzo said:
I have an HP color Laser, and after a year, I'm still using the original toner.
Even better, it will use generic toner :D
Some of the managers at the office wanted to be able to print color at their desk, so I bought them all same color model while it was on sale.
Liked it so much, I bought one for home.
The generic toner is only about 1/4 the cost, so we same a bundle on toner, even though they occasion have early failures.

When I used an ink jet at home I wasted half the ink cleaning it each time I used it.

The wife/kids still use an ink jet all-in-one (with generic ink of course). When it fails, I'm tempted to replace it with a laser based color all-in-one.
It's just that the color laser units are 3 times the size.
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A year? I've got a B/W Brother and I've been using the same cartridge for at least 7 or 8 years (though I did have to cover up the hole that the printer uses to decide if the thing is empty). But I mostly just print the occasional shipping label, a letter, rebate form or envelope. I wouldn't mind a color one, but this probably cost me 150 (it's also a scanner and photocopier) and even if it died tomorrow, it'd have been cheaper htan running an inkjet.
 
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This 3rd ink blocking hapens for 20 years, its yust lost money for customer + dead printer.
I hate Canon.
 
Wow! I didn't know laser printers were so much better than the ink variant. If I need to replace my current printer, I will find a good laser printer, or I may justify the purchase with cheaper refill costs.
 
Dan_D said:
Inkjet printers are a junk technology anyway.
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It really depends. Epson Inkjets are used for printing huge prints. We have at least one at work. They're also good for artists that print their own work (i've never seen a consumer color laser printer that could come close to an inkjet printer). I don't know if print houses use laser or not (I know they use to use them to expose paper, but I think they use inkjets now).

My problem with inkjet is the cost of ink, the speed of printing and the fact that if I go a while without printing, I waste ink to clean the heads. If I printed regularly, it'd be more economical.
 
nilepez said:
It really depends. Epson Inkjets are used for printing huge prints. We have at least one at work. They're also good for artists that print their own work (i've never seen a consumer color laser printer that could come close to an inkjet printer). I don't know if print houses use laser or not (I know they use to use them to expose paper, but I think they use inkjets now).

My problem with inkjet is the cost of ink, the speed of printing and the fact that if I go a while without printing, I waste ink to clean the heads. If I printed regularly, it'd be more economical.
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Inkjets are shit. This is not due to their print quality, but due to their inherent lack of reliability.
 
likeman said:
inkjet with a constant ink refill system are quite cheap to run (official or custom)

even epson sell them now as an official part and there own ink they sell in the bottle is not bad price as well ( https://www.epson.co.uk/for-home/ecotank )

i set up one epson ecotank printer for a company as they needed ink based printer for one task as there last 2 injet printers died within a year , no problems with the epson ecotank and using epson bottle ink (everything els is laser)

i remember the days of daisy wheel printers (floor shaker)
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I bought the EcoTank 3600 two years ago and love it. Those ink tanks are huge... I print 50+ pages a week and I've never yet had to refill even the black ink tank.
More expensive at first, but it has paid for itself already by not having to buy cartridges!

/never buying another HP ever again
 
Dan_D said:
Inkjets are shit. This is not due to their print quality, but due to their inherent lack of reliability.
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that photo services aren't having huge reliability issues with ink jet printers.
 
nilepez said:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that photo services aren't having huge reliability issues with ink jet printers.
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I've worked in one place that did that and actually supported printers. I've also worked many places that had large format inkjets (still do) for one reason or another. They have a much higher failure rate than laser printers do. However, that brings me to one of the reasons why Inkjets suck ass. If you don't use them very often the print heads build up deposits of ink in them and fail. If you use them constantly, the technology is reasonably reliable. If you don't, it isn't.
 
My office has an HP color laser (good for work purposes like color tables/graphs and charts) running along a color Xerox machine but for serious color copy / photo printouts we have a Xerox printer that uses color wax chunks / crayon cube looking things which is great at color reproduction (but slow print speeds).

If I were buying a home printer today, I'd definitely go color laser - the hassle of running multiple toner cartridges (and sometimes a fuser cartridge and a disposable waste collector box) still outweighs all the drying out issues that come with inkjets and ink cartridges.
 
My wife and I are both finishing off a PhD. I use a brother and I've gone through 5 or 6 cartridges over 4 years. I bought them in two packs from ebay £8.00-8.50.
My only issue now is that the drum is running low. I've printed thousands of pages and only had a couple of jams. The nice thing about tonner is that it prints dry and it doesn't run if it gets wet. I also like picking up warm printouts. I also feel that laser printers are more solid than the inlet with the little flap door. I've been using brother laser printers since 2003.
 
Didnt the Kurig coffee maker throw in some DRM type of shit for those little cups? I seem to recall reading some had RFID in them to know you have authentic Kcups and not generic shit.
 
Dan_D said:
I've worked in one place that did that and actually supported printers. I've also worked many places that had large format inkjets (still do) for one reason or another. They have a much higher failure rate than laser printers do. However, that brings me to one of the reasons why Inkjets suck ass. If you don't use them very often the print heads build up deposits of ink in them and fail. If you use them constantly, the technology is reasonably reliable. If you don't, it isn't.
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Which is why I was talking about Print Shops. They're printing hundreds, if not thousands, of images photos/day. And honestly, I haven't seen a color laser printer that I'd use to print photos, unless they were just for a document at a meeting (i.e. disposable and image quality is irrelevant).

But you're absolutely right that for consumers that only print intermittently, they're better off buying a laser for documents and take photos to the drugstore or an online print shop.
 
I was trying to find a thread over inkjet color printers that could accept re-filled cartridges and how people are re-filling their cartridges, and I found this thread.

My needs are not too many and quite uncomplicated. I use my printer to make new color covers for my DVDs and CDs. Print them on photo shiny paper, two per sheet.

Until recently I was not using the color cartridges, printing only in grey tones. But then I saw a video explaining how to re-fill the cartridges on my HP.

Re-filling color cartridges is a bit more complicated than B&W ones, particularly because the ink capacity is a lot less than a B&W cartridge.

To refill I use syringes, one for each color. And you can't guarantee how long each color or each cartridge will last. Of course, there's a learning process, which don't really explain on the videos.

For instance, I discovered that you can't use a color cartridge just after you refill any of the colors. You have to wait at least one day to use it, or the color will not seep as it should .

So I went find out if the Epson printers were also refillable with less trouble and if they lasted more. Didn't know yet about this Epson firmware issue mentioned at the beginning.

Sorry if I don't agree with claims about laser printers, B&W or color, because a few years ago I bought a Lexmark and it didn't live more than its first ink box. The warranty was awful and didn't solve the problem.
 
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