Epic Sues German Modder For Selling Paragon Hack

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Selling a hack that is "impossible to detect" is one way to piss off a developer enough to sue you. This guy is going to be in a world of hurt too because there really isn't a defense in this case either. :eek:

Epic is suing for copyright infringement, unfair competition and breach of contract, and is requesting a judge order all versions of the software be destroyed. Their justification for suing in California comes from their attempts to take down YouTube videos advertising the hack under the justification of the Digital Millenium Copyright act.
 
M76 said:
I think this is kind of as if you'd sue gun manufacturers for creating guns. Go after the persons using the hack, not the one who created it. Yes it's immoral, but then again is creating weapons to kill people moral?
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It directly impacts their business and causes monetary losses. Fuck the hack creators, they should be liable for any lawsuit brought against them.
 
This is on par with making mods for a game and selling it without any permission from the ip holder.

It's about time these companies go after the source. Cheating has become way worse then it ever has, even as little as five years ago, thanks to these services becoming so popular.
 
5150Joker said:
It directly impacts their business and causes monetary losses. Fuck the hack creators, they should be liable for any lawsuit brought against them.
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Yes, I bet Samsung Galaxy phones impact the business for Apple Iphones, but that alone is not enough cause to sue. If they can prove he is somehow infringing on their copyright by reverse engineering their code, then that could be a legitimate cause to sue. But not the fact that he created a hack. Why is it even called a hack? These software used to be called trainers.
 
Good, no, GREAT! Wonder if publishers will make life hell for these guys. I'm fed up with cheaters.
 
Guy lives ih Germany they are suing in California they want see a pug nickel.How stupid
 
Dude is screwed royally. He may try to put up a defense but according to the license he agreed to when purchasing, installing and running the game he doesn't really have a chance to come out of this unscathed.
 
M76 said:
Yes, I bet Samsung Galaxy phones impact the business for Apple Iphones, but that alone is not enough cause to sue. If they can prove he is somehow infringing on their copyright by reverse engineering their code, then that could be a legitimate cause to sue. But not the fact that he created a hack. Why is it even called a hack? These software used to be called trainers.
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But hacks/trainers for single player games do not affect the rest of the gaming community unless you cheat to get on some high score record.
 
DrDoU said:
Guy lives ih Germany they are suing in California they want see a pug nickel.How stupid
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The lawsuit starting in California is needed to start the process, the first step is taking down the YouTube videos that advertise the hack and how to use it going through California gets them this. Once they have that it is an easy step to then request the information of any users who uploaded videos of themselves using the hack, yes those exist. Once they have won in California they can then take the matter to German courts and go after the person or their company directly, it is the first step in a multi part process that will hopefully result in the cheat maker being shut down and enough information on their exploit to close it off and any others who may attempt something similar.
 
M76 said:
Yes, I bet Samsung Galaxy phones impact the business for Apple Iphones, but that alone is not enough cause to sue. If they can prove he is somehow infringing on their copyright by reverse engineering their code, then that could be a legitimate cause to sue. But not the fact that he created a hack. Why is it even called a hack? These software used to be called trainers.
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Right because making competing hardware is the same as creating software that compromises their games right? Those online MP hack creators need giant dildos stuffed in their ass as part of the penalty.
 
M76 said:
Yes, I bet Samsung Galaxy phones impact the business for Apple Iphones, but that alone is not enough cause to sue. If they can prove he is somehow infringing on their copyright by reverse engineering their code, then that could be a legitimate cause to sue. But not the fact that he created a hack. Why is it even called a hack? These software used to be called trainers.
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The hack can only be used in one scenario, the Epic game. A very important distinction you have not displayed a comprehension of with your comparisons.
 
M76 said:
Yes, I bet Samsung Galaxy phones impact the business for Apple Iphones, but that alone is not enough cause to sue. If they can prove he is somehow infringing on their copyright by reverse engineering their code, then that could be a legitimate cause to sue. But not the fact that he created a hack. Why is it even called a hack? These software used to be called trainers.
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A samsung galaxy phone doesn't stop iphone users from being able to use their phones.

Now if samsung were stupid enough(lets just ignore the FCC and their equivalents for a moment) to design their phone in such a way that prevented apple users from being able to use their iphone, potentially causing iphone users to switch or simply stop being apple customers, then the comparison could work.

A more direct comparison would be if an iphone app maker published an app that somehow affected the ability of other iphone owners to use their phone without buying their app.
 
Lakados said:
The lawsuit starting in California is needed to start the process, the first step is taking down the YouTube videos that advertise the hack and how to use it going through California gets them this. Once they have that it is an easy step to then request the information of any users who uploaded videos of themselves using the hack, yes those exist. Once they have won in California they can then take the matter to German courts and go after the person or their company directly, it is the first step in a multi part process that will hopefully result in the cheat maker being shut down and enough information on their exploit to close it off and any others who may attempt something similar.
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Fairly certain it has to be a criminal liability, not civil, in order to obtain that kind of data about a user.
 
I'm not sure how criminal this is.
You can only hold ip on art, code, etc of the game. Once it's loaded into memory, having another program modify it does not make it your IP.
That's like saying ford owns the IP for the motors they make (which is true), then comes around an after market product like a twin turbo which changes the way their engine works.
Does ford get to say that it's illegal? It's definitely going to be out of warranty at that point since it's been modified beyond it's original spec, but it's up to the owner of the car to decide how to use the program.
I know there's already blizzard who argued this same idea legally successfully, but it's pretty awful. If they wanted to, they could say that using their software in a vm environment is illegal because it modifies the way their software was meant to be used.
 
Hypergreatthing said:
I'm not sure how criminal this is.
You can only hold ip on art, code, etc of the game. Once it's loaded into memory, having another program modify it does not make it your IP.
That's like saying ford owns the IP for the motors they make (which is true), then comes around an after market product like a twin turbo which changes the way their engine works.
Does ford get to say that it's illegal? It's definitely going to be out of warranty at that point since it's been modified beyond it's original spec, but it's up to the owner of the car to decide how to use the program.
I know there's already blizzard who argued this same idea legally successfully, but it's pretty awful. If they wanted to, they could say that using their software in a vm environment is illegal because it modifies the way their software was meant to be used.
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The issue is that the hack directly impacts others.

For example, why are steroids banned in sport? Why are their conditions on vehicles that enter races, why can't I just enter a 500 hp car into a race that says 200 hp maximum?

The comparison of modifying something I own, and cheating in a non-solo event, are different.
 
Kalabalana said:
The issue is that the hack directly impacts others.

For example, why are steroids banned in sport? Why are their conditions on vehicles that enter races, why can't I just enter a 500 hp car into a race that says 200 hp maximum?

The comparison of modifying something I own, and cheating in a non-solo event, are different.
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Impacting other's experience on a online game has never been criminal. Can't wait to see griefers in court based on that logic
 
5150Joker said:
Right because making competing hardware is the same as creating software that compromises their games right? Those online MP hack creators need giant dildos stuffed in their ass as part of the penalty.
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I don't care for them either, but it's not the hack creator who is ruining your game, it's the cheater. Going after the source is justified morally. but there is no such thing as the morality police, unless there are laws being broken there is no lawful reason to go after the creator of the software.
Kalabalana said:
The hack can only be used in one scenario, the Epic game. A very important distinction you have not displayed a comprehension of with your comparisons.
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The comparison's purpose was just to show that weakening someone else market position is not reason enough to sue.

Kalabalana said:
The comparison of modifying something I own, and cheating in a non-solo event, are different.
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Exactly. So the enemy should be the ones cheating in the non-solo events. Unless there is a law that outright bans cheats there is no lawful reason to go after people writing the software for cheating.

Why are their conditions on vehicles that enter races, why can't I just enter a 500 hp car into a race that says 200 hp maximum?
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But if someone enters a 200hp race with an 500hp cars nobody goes around suing the guy who manufactured the 500hp car.

Also if an athlete is caught with a drug in their system that is on the ban list, no-one goes around suing the manufacturer of said drug.
 
Paragon would have been in closed Beta in March. The terms of agreement were extensive and pointed out that you acknowledged that damage to Paragon's image as incalculable. SystemCheats are a huge hacking company. They are responsible for Dirty Bomb being unplayable. No competitive player wants to play against this shit:



I hope that Epic games goes after the development costs + legal fees. I hope that Systems Cheats gets closed down. I don't know whether the California-Germany legal system will hold up though?
 
Game companies should lobby congress to make it a felony to develop multiplayer hacks as it financially hurts companies and wastes the player bases time and money. Then form agreements with other countries so they can be extradited and tried.
 
Hypergreatthing said:
Impacting other's experience on a online game has never been criminal. Can't wait to see griefers in court based on that logic
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Well welcome to things you've never thought about before.
Why do you think software has user agreements? That's where the legality is going to take hold, but this was all logic I assumed taken for granted.
 
M76 said:
I don't care for them either, but it's not the hack creator who is ruining your game, it's the cheater. Going after the source is justified morally. but there is no such thing as the morality police, unless there are laws being broken there is no lawful reason to go after the creator of the software.

The comparison's purpose was just to show that weakening someone else market position is not reason enough to sue.


Exactly. So the enemy should be the ones cheating in the non-solo events. Unless there is a law that outright bans cheats there is no lawful reason to go after people writing the software for cheating.


But if someone enters a 200hp race with an 500hp cars nobody goes around suing the guy who manufactured the 500hp car.

Also if an athlete is caught with a drug in their system that is on the ban list, no-one goes around suing the manufacturer of said drug.
Click to expand...
M76 said:
I don't care for them either, but it's not the hack creator who is ruining your game, it's the cheater. Going after the source is justified morally. but there is no such thing as the morality police, unless there are laws being broken there is no lawful reason to go after the creator of the software.

The comparison's purpose was just to show that weakening someone else market position is not reason enough to sue.


Exactly. So the enemy should be the ones cheating in the non-solo events. Unless there is a law that outright bans cheats there is no lawful reason to go after people writing the software for cheating.


But if someone enters a 200hp race with an 500hp cars nobody goes around suing the guy who manufactured the 500hp car.

Also if an athlete is caught with a drug in their system that is on the ban list, no-one goes around suing the manufacturer of said drug.
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These aren't even clever strawman arguments.
Unconscious too, scary
 
Kalabalana said:
These aren't even clever strawman arguments.
Unconscious too, scary
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Do you even know what a strawman argument is? It doesn't seem so. Straw manning is when you paint a false image of something and try to debunk that imaginary version instead of the real thing. Show me where I did that.

Either say something or don't say anything. This empty patronizing attitude from your high horse is meaningless. You act as if it's supposed to be obvious where I went wrong. But if it was obvious to me, then I wouldn't have bothered to write it in the first place.
 
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