Epic Says Piracy is Killing PC Gaming

Derangel

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any developer or publisher that's only in it for the money is of less than no interest to me anyway

Money is the only reason any of these companies exist. If you want studios more into the "art" of game development stick to indie titles.
 

samduhman

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10 or so years ago I would pirate a game, but I've grown up, make a lot more money, and I don't mind plunking down first day prices for a new game. Problem is, nobody makes a game worth playing on PC anymore. My money now goes to Steam sales, or releases there since the prices are usually cheaper than me going to the store (store price + tax + gas + my time).

Solution: fix the delivery system, and make something that showcases the PC and what it can do. I built my sig rig to game. Most that's been done on it was allow my friends to oggle over Crysis.

Same here. I have money to spend on GOOD games not cross platform garbage. Well not all of them are garbage but they definitely are designed first for PC and neutered for consoles like the old days.

Make good exclusives for todays PC hardware and we will buy it. I haven't seen much of those lately.

Devs admit it your stuck in a rut and don't know how to be creative anymore. sequels sequels sequels. bah

My sights are set on indie devs not on those who have failed in being creative like Epic.

you epic boys keep drinking your koolaide convincing yourselves PC gaming is dead. :rolleyes:
 

krotch

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No, it will never be PCs again. The console userbase can be monetized and raped in a way PC users won't tolerate. Sure, PCs will continue to be the best platform for gamers, but consoles will get the bulk of the attention. People forget that publicly traded gaming companies have a fiduciary duty to screw you the customer as hard as possible. There is no obligation on them to release a quality product at a reasonable price. Instead, they are bound (by the corporate laws of whatever state they register in) to break the games up and milk you into paying as much as possible. It's a lot easier to get away with this on consoles so we see corporate officers meeting their fiduciary duties by shifting to console development. Try to get away with bullshit on the PC and you'll get 1000 one-star Amazon reviews.

How many ppl probably said PCs wouldn't rise when you had the Nintendo, Genesis, Super Nintendo, Playstation, etc. As the consoles start aging, it'll just shift to PCs. Hell, the consoles nowadays are pretty much just PCs.

As for screwing the customer, it's never limited to a specific platform. Consoles, PCs, phones, etc. There will be a way to screw the customer and they are finding out how. DLCs happen on PCs. Possibly paying to be a beta tester. Possibly paying $10 for a used game you purchased to play online. The platform is hardly a limiting factor.
 

sfsuphysics

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Gotta love piracy articles everyone becomes an expert and needs to post!

My view however... larger companies buying out smaller ones have killed the PC gaming industry.
 
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The reason why there aren't more original IPs these days is thanks to pirates. Companies are forced to play it safe to ensure that they can stay alive. Same with music. Can't be daring anymore, you risk going under. So you stick with safe, mainstream music.

What, you say, EPIC is doing fine? Of course they are, they are playing it safe. But look at how the small PC game studio has practically disappeared from the landscape. They can't afford give their games away for free to 75% - 90% of PC gamers, so they run off and make iPhone apps.

It pains me that the best argument you pirates come up with is that you pirate games because they suck. Did you ever consider that games suck because you pirate them?
 

Ashbringer

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How Game companies think.
Step #1 Making a innovative game 10+ years ago.
Step #2 Keep remaking that same game, but claim it to be new.
Step #3 Put DRM on it, cause you know those god damn pirates are going to steal your moneys.
Step #4 Make all your games for consoles, because that's where shitty made games go and make huge profits. Consoles = kids = stupid people = easy money.

How Pirates think.
Step #1 See if game is on PC. If not then go to step #3.
Step #2 Torrent said game and play.
Step #3 Buy a console and get a mod chip.
Step #4 Torrent said game and play.
Step #5 Profit.
 

Disposed

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The reason why there aren't more original IPs these days is thanks to pirates. Companies are forced to play it safe to ensure that they can stay alive. Same with music. Can't be daring anymore, you risk going under. So you stick with safe, mainstream music.

What, you say, EPIC is doing fine? Of course they are, they are playing it safe. But look at how the small PC game studio has practically disappeared from the landscape. They can't afford give their games away for free to 75% - 90% of PC gamers, so they run off and make iPhone apps.

It pains me that the best argument you pirates come up with is that you pirate games because they suck. Did you ever consider that games suck because you pirate them?

Flawed argument in so many ways im not even going to bother. Instead i will just :rolleyes:
 

krotch

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Small PC game studios tend to do well, then get bought by the much larger companies. Those that don't do well, pretty much just fall to the wayside and disappear.

Then with increasing power, graphics, etc. Development time increases. Cost increases. Each new title becomes a huge gamble for a small game studio. A single game can make or break them. In today's economy, many ppl are becoming extremely picky purchasers.
 

stiltner

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What, you say, EPIC is doing fine? Of course they are, they are playing it safe. But look at how the small PC game studio has practically disappeared from the landscape. They can't afford give their games away for free to 75% - 90% of PC gamers, so they run off and make iPhone apps.

Popcap games, Telltale Games (who brought Sam & Max back from the dead, and it was and still is a huge smash hit, I love the Sam & Max games, and that style of game). The old gamers in the group can all recall how the Spacequest, Kings Quest style of games were a blast, they were fun, and they made you think. It wasn't all just reaction based gaming.

Valve is who they are because the HL/HL2 series has been so open for the community. With HLDS SDK, mods, and all the spinoffs of Source engine stuff (DoD, which if I remember right started as a community mod, same as CS did, and look at them now). The fact is, if Valve cut off that aspect of their nose to spite their face, they'd suffer tremendously in the long run. If they want $100 for HL3, and they promise me that its going to remain with as much community involvement with the SDK and the like, as HL2 is now, I'll buy it, AND pay $100 for it. Its an investment that I know will stay around.

How's Unreal Engine doing for community involvement? I see a few UE SDK items on their website, but nothing thats captured an audience. Batman AA runs off the UE3 engine and its absolutely amazing as far as a game goes, its visually stunning, but more than that, it is and was a FUN game, that looks phenominal in 1900 x 1200 res.

Can we include "browser based games" in PC Gaming? If so, then I think there's a company doing some farming game or something on Facebook, that seems to have a mild following, but it could just be a rumor.
 

Ashbringer

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The reason why there aren't more original IPs these days is thanks to pirates. Companies are forced to play it safe to ensure that they can stay alive. Same with music. Can't be daring anymore, you risk going under. So you stick with safe, mainstream music.
The reason why companies are afraid to innovative ideas is because it takes 10X+ as many developers as it did in the past.

Sonic The Hedgehog vs Modern Warfare. Sonic is now a classic iconic character, while Modern Warfare 2 will be forgotten in a year. Yet, it probably took 10X more developers and 30X more money to develop Modern Warfare.

Most cost = more risk = want to take less risk. The old saying goes,"why break what's not broken?" doesn't apply to the entertainment industry.
What, you say, EPIC is doing fine? Of course they are, they are playing it safe. But look at how the small PC game studio has practically disappeared from the landscape. They can't afford give their games away for free to 75% - 90% of PC gamers, so they run off and make iPhone apps.
Cause people can't pirate on iPhones?
It pains me that the best argument you pirates come up with is that you pirate games because they suck. Did you ever consider that games suck because you pirate them?

Games suck cause they do. Pirating doesn't make them suck more.

Remember Seriously Sam? That game was only $20, and it was awesome. Certainly worth that amount.

Today, a lot of games aren't worth that much in my opinion. It's funny too, because companies spend 10X more money to make them, but IMO they're worth 10X less then the listed price.

The problem is when I'm done beating a game, I don't feel like playing it again. Sure, game companies put stupid crap to give players replay value, but it's pretty stupid stuff. Like, Assassin's Creed 2 with feathers. There's no skill collecting them, and it's just a time sink. On the other hand getting the Armor in Assassin's Creed 2 was pretty cool, and effected game play. Too bad it hardly effected it to the point I didn't notice a difference.

I laugh when people rate games from 1-5 or 1-10. How about rating them on money value? I thought Modern Warfare 2 was worth $20, and not a penny more. If you don't agree with me, then look around and see what people are doing to get around it, legally.

Renting games is a very good method to get around paying the hefty $50-$60 price tag.
Buying used games that came out many months later is another great way to get discount games.
You can just buy the game brand new and play it for a week, then return it for nearly full price.

That legal shit wasn't good enough for companies, so now they're preventing players from playing games online, unless they pay a $10 fee. So why pay to play when pirating gets you the same deal? It's obvious that game companies don't wanna drop their price, so they punish players for even attempting.

You know what else, console systems are a breeding ground for bad games. Who said that every game for the Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 should be $60? It's pretty much like the Nintendo 8-bit days, when a handful of games were amazing and gave the console this image of quality. Yet, it was full of dreadful games that took advantage of that image. So, you could go into the store and buy Megaman 2, which was so worth $50. Then you go buy Action 52, which was worth $200, and it was the shittiest game ever made.

The only different today is that shitty games don't have spelling mistakes and having amazing graphics. Plus, they have enough publicity that nobody could ever declare them shitty. Yet, 2 years later that same game is on the self for $10, which was probably the true value of the game. Marvel vs Capcom 2 is worth more used then when it was new 10+ years ago. That wasn't a shitty game, now was it?

Point I'm making is game companies charge too much for their games. People wanna play them, but not for that price. Cause they're not ever worth $60. EVER! We'd have to talk about a more serious price, like between $20 - $40. Very few games are worth $40.
 

Lamont

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Piracy is a factor for game sales, what I don't like is how the numbers are hyped up on how they calculate losses. People will take shit when given the chance, even if they could have paid $0.01. Did the people who decided to pirate even know? Or just saw a link on a torrent site and DL the games?

If you don't like dealing with the companies and their excuses and DRM, support the indie developers.
 

Derangel

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Piracy is a factor for game sales, what I don't like is how the numbers are hyped up on how they calculate losses. People will take shit when given the chance, even if they could have paid $0.01. Did the people who decided to pirate even know? Or just saw a link on a torrent site and DL the games?

If you don't like dealing with the companies and their excuses and DRM, support the indie developers.

Like mainstream titles, most indie titles are shit too. Though its easier to excuse shit when its cheap shit versus $50-60 shit.
 

krotch

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I find this annoying. Developers constantly complain that piracy is killing their PC market, or their sales, but never back any of this up with facts.

In contrast, there was a study done which shows the exact opposite: Pirates are the gaming industries best customers.

You should see how much I spend to go to a concert. I normally pirate my music first, as it takes a week or two for the actual CDs to show up on my door.

Cost for a concert? I went to 4 concerts at the beginning of May. $500 plane ticket to Japan. 15000, 16000, 15000, and 32000 yen for each ticket. Then about 80,000 yen in concert goods. Let's not forget hotel for 6 days.

Course, that's still nothing compared to the concert back in Dec. I paid 92000 yen just for the concert ticket alone. Stayed there for 15 days, spent like 100,000 yen in concert goods and other various goods at their stores.


Cause they're not ever worth $60. EVER!

I feel Borderlands and Dragon Age was worth their $50-60 price tag. I even bought all the expansions and DLC for them. I actually bought Borderlands on 360 and PC. Not all my friends like PC gaming, but I still want to game with them.

MW2 definitely wasn't worth $60. Maybe $20. BF:BC2 was probably $25-30. Buy map packs for them? Hell no. I don't even have MW2 installed. I haven't gone online with BC2 yet.
 

Ashbringer

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I feel Borderlands and Dragon Age was worth their $50-60 price tag. I even bought all the expansions and DLC for them. I actually bought Borderlands on 360 and PC. Not all my friends like PC gaming, but I still want to game with them.

MW2 definitely wasn't worth $60. Maybe $20. BF:BC2 was probably $25-30. Buy map packs for them? Hell no. I don't even have MW2 installed. I haven't gone online with BC2 yet.
Personally, Dragon Age Origins is a $30, and that's because it got silly having to pause the game ever few seconds to setup combat.

Borderlands is worth $20 cause it's cheesy and cliche. The cell shading is a cover up, and the wasteland idea was done better in FallOut3. Plus, the characters look like rejects from Teen Titans.

FallOut3 on the other hand was certainly worth $40, and the only reason it isn't higher is because it's out of budget range and people will begin finding ways to get it cheaper anyway.

Hey, that's another thought the game industry should think of. With the ruff economy we have today, they should really rethink their prices. Drop their prices low enough and less people will pirate. Drop it low enough and it might be a smarter thing to do. Pirating isn't free if you think about it, cause you have to waste electricity to download, and then burn the game onto a dual layer DVD, and those suckers aren't cheap. Put those games on Steam and gamers will forget about piracy. Too convenient and cheap to bother making DVD's.

Oh, and when I mean cheaper I don't mean $10. It's funny too because with Xbox 360 and PS3, they raised the price $10 per game.
 

Hornet

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Its obvious by now that forceful means of preventing piracy like DRM isn't going to work. Developers/publishers need to find new means of encouraging users to purchase a game. Rather than focusing on the pirates and trying to stop them, they should focus on legit users instead, reward them or whatever that would make it more advantageous or beneficial to be a legit user so to encourage others to be one too.

I admit I'm a huge fan of Steam and their achievement system. The achievement system alone is enough to encourage me to purchase single player games which anyone could otherwise just pirate and it makes no difference. But if we purchase it on Steam, we have this extra achievement system stuff to go along with the game. To me, small matters or differences like this could actually encourage more people to purchase a game.

Oh, and I love Steam promotion and discounts too, heh :p
Something I hardly see at the local games retail store
 

krotch

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Personally, Dragon Age Origins is a $30, and that's because it got silly having to pause the game ever few seconds to setup combat.

I rarely ever paused my game to setup combat. I setup my party members with specific tactics and they were fine by themselves. Try the console version. No way to pause to setup combat.

Borderlands is worth $20 cause it's cheesy and cliche. The cell shading is a cover up, and the wasteland idea was done better in FallOut3. Plus, the characters look like rejects from Teen Titans.

FallOut3 on the other hand was certainly worth $40, and the only reason it isn't higher is because it's out of budget range and people will begin finding ways to get it cheaper anyway.

Fallout 3...I hate that stupid VAC system. You didn't like Dragon Age's pausing, yet somehow were perfectly fine with all the pausing when using the VAC system? There was absolutely no way around that stupid VAC system, until you advance further into the game. Even then, you might as well just keep using it, cause your accuracy takes a turn for the worse otherwise.

Borderlands was definitely cheesy and cliche, but I still enjoyed the game and for quite a lot of hours. An apocalyptic wasteland was definitely done better in Fallout 3, but even if you used that in Borderlands, it wouldn't feel be right. Borderlands was built with humour in mind, while Fallout 3 was more dramatic.

Hey, that's another thought the game industry should think of. With the ruff economy we have today, they should really rethink their prices. Drop their prices low enough and less people will pirate. Drop it low enough and it might be a smarter thing to do. Pirating isn't free if you think about it, cause you have to waste electricity to download, and then burn the game onto a dual layer DVD, and those suckers aren't cheap. Put those games on Steam and gamers will forget about piracy. Too convenient and cheap to bother making DVD's.

I keep my comps on 24/7, so I really wouldn't lose out on much, if I did pirate. I'd actually save a lot of money instead.

Also, no one burns the games. You just mount them with some kind of virtual drive software. Daemon Tools, Alcohol, etc.
 

krotch

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Its obvious by now that forceful means of preventing piracy like DRM isn't going to work. Developers/publishers need to find new means of encouraging users to purchase a game. Rather than focusing on the pirates and trying to stop them, they should focus on legit users instead, reward them or whatever that would make it more advantageous or beneficial to be a legit user so to encourage others to be one too.

I admit I'm a huge fan of Steam and their achievement system. The achievement system alone is enough to encourage me to purchase single player games which anyone could otherwise just pirate and it makes no difference. But if we purchase it on Steam, we have this extra achievement system stuff to go along with the game. To me, small matters or differences like this could actually encourage more people to purchase a game.

Oh, and I love Steam promotion and discounts too, heh :p
Something I hardly see at the local games retail store

Reward the consumer is always a positive, the problem is, with what? Free content is as easy to pirate as the game itself. It can also take away a revenue stream (DLC type stuff). Achievement system isn't all that great, considering I've bought like 20 games on Steam and I don't care at all about the achievement system it brings along. Be it on Steam, Xbox Live, or PSN.

The Steam promotions and discounts are way awesome though. They gave away Portal for free (even though I own it already). Tropico 3 is 75% off right now (not that I'd buy the game or pirate it either). The preloading is another bonus. As soon as the game is released, I'm playing it without having to hit up the store and pray the game isn't sold out.
 

Disposed

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Fallout 3...I hate that stupid VAC system. You didn't like Dragon Age's pausing, yet somehow were perfectly fine with all the pausing when using the VAC system? There was absolutely no way around that stupid VAC system, until you advance further into the game. Even then, you might as well just keep using it, cause your accuracy takes a turn for the worse otherwise.

That is what makes fallout fallout. Take away VAC and its just another shitty shooter instead of a tactical RPG.
 

Ashbringer

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Reward the consumer is always a positive, the problem is, with what? Free content is as easy to pirate as the game itself. It can also take away a revenue stream (DLC type stuff). Achievement system isn't all that great, considering I've bought like 20 games on Steam and I don't care at all about the achievement system it brings along. Be it on Steam, Xbox Live, or PSN.
The achievement system is a horrible to begin with. It's just replay value for those who think a number score has any meaning, other then you played a lot of games and did stupid boring crap nobody else would do.

They had something like this as far back as the 70's, it's called a SCORE! Get the highest freaking score there is, and if you wanna show it off post it on your facebook or something. At least it'll have more meaning.
The Steam promotions and discounts are way awesome though. They gave away Portal for free (even though I own it already). Tropico 3 is 75% off right now (not that I'd buy the game or pirate it either). The preloading is another bonus. As soon as the game is released, I'm playing it without having to hit up the store and pray the game isn't sold out.
I bought Sin Episodes from Steam like over a year ago and the game was $15. It has everything I'd ever want from a $15 game. Boobs, guns, bad language, and a cheap price. Was it game of the year? Hell no, but it was a damn good game for $15. Had it been $60 on Xbox 360, it would have been the shittiest game ever made.

Steam does good with their prices.
 

H-street

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I find this annoying. Developers constantly complain that piracy is killing their PC market, or their sales, but never back any of this up with facts.

In contrast, there was a study done which shows the exact opposite: Pirates are the gaming industries best customers.

The numbers are there, if you do a little research.

for example, bit boys World of Goo enjoyed a 90% piracy rate..

the numbers are also out there (i'll let you research to find it) for the COD4 piracy rate..

when you start to dig a little and actually accept the facts you will realize how much of a problem piracy is on the PC. I won't try and convince you but i suggest if you really care to know to start looking into it and you'll find the numbers.

Sometimes its unfortunate that people don't listen to the old school PC developers like EPIC and iD and what they are saying, these are people that their heart and soul belonged to the PC platform that have been driven away by a big slap in the face. You can stick your fingers in your ears and say "LA LA LA LA LA" all you want but doesn't change what is going on or how much of an issue it is.
 

firas

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The numbers are there, if you do a little research.

for example, bit boys World of Goo enjoyed a 90% piracy rate..

the numbers are also out there (i'll let you research to find it) for the COD4 piracy rate..

when you start to dig a little and actually accept the facts you will realize how much of a problem piracy is on the PC. I won't try and convince you but i suggest if you really care to know to start looking into it and you'll find the numbers.

Sometimes its unfortunate that people don't listen to the old school PC developers like EPIC and iD and what they are saying, these are people that their heart and soul belonged to the PC platform that have been driven away by a big slap in the face. You can stick your fingers in your ears and say "LA LA LA LA LA" all you want but doesn't change what is going on or how much of an issue it is.

I googled "COD4 piracy rate" and found this Piracy is killing PC games, says COD4 developer
imagine if the pirated version of a game like COD would play multiplier on the original non-cracked servers.
 

Buckus

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Defending pirating is making me sick. As a software developer myself, if I did not get paid to do the job, I would not do it, plain and simple. What Epic is saying is that they get paid more (i.e. sell more) when they release console games as opposed to PC games. The PC platform is superior in most ways to consoles, but it lacks in copyright protection. Sure, you can hack a console, but most users do not because it involves hardware. PC Games, on the other hand, can be hacked without cutting up the hardware. Much, much, much lower cost to pirating.

Look, it's pretty clear: if you want to play a game on your PC, pay for it. Don't fucking whine about "the game sucks" or "it's the same old game over and over again." Both statements may or may not be true when applied to any particular game. But just because you don't like the business model doesn't justify stealing the game, and thus, someone's hard work. It could be MY hard work you're stealing. If you think it sucks, or you tried it on someone else's computer and deemed it to not be worthy of your hard-earned money, just vote with your damn wallet and don't buy it and don't pirate it. If you really want to change the system, start your own distribution chain, a 'la Steam, which has been very successful.
 

Mr. Pedantic

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that doesn't stop piracy.
But it sure does take the fun out of the game for the pirate. No multiplayer, no achievements, basically only single-player. With things like TF2, L4D, and other fps', where's the fun in that?

If by piracy killing PC gaming you mean developers using DRM to count piracy that cripples PC games killing the PC game market.
This. A year ago I wouldn't have even thought of using Steam to buy games because of the whole downloading thing (thanks go to New Zealand's crappy, limited internet) but now it's a serious consideration simply because I don't see DRM going away, and really, Steam seems the most tolerable and sensible.

They said in clear, plain English they make more money with console then they do with the PCs (because of pirates)... so they focus on consoles. Not that hard to read... try doing it sometime.
They don't know it, they can't prove it, and neither can anyone else.

Gamers will constantly say make good games, then we'll buy, your lost money is because of shitty product.
It's true. World in Conflict is the last game that I actually liked and thought the money I paid for was worth it. Oblivion was the last game in first-person perspective that I thought that about. Fallout 3? Nope. NFS: Shift? Nope. DA:O? Nope. Portal doesn't count because it's free, but really, I didn't feel that it was worth more than about $5 anyway. Many free games I play are longer.
 

dr.kevin

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Have you seen Bulletstorm, epic's next collab project ?

yeah, that's why pc gaming is dying.

how many copies do you think Bulletstorm will sell?
 
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wii and xbox 360 have been hacked, ps3 is all but hacked (hence the linux removal)

just keep blaming the pc-pirates for poor sales of half ass games...

most people pirate the full version and buy it if they like it...get used to it
 

krotch

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I bought Sin Episodes from Steam like over a year ago and the game was $15. It has everything I'd ever want from a $15 game. Boobs, guns, bad language, and a cheap price. Was it game of the year? Hell no, but it was a damn good game for $15. Had it been $60 on Xbox 360, it would have been the shittiest game ever made.

Steam does good with their prices.

Sin Episodes pissed me off. Not that it was a bad game. I really enjoyed it. It's that, no more Sin Episodes came out after the first one. Damn, whatever crap company bought the company that made Sin Episodes.

The numbers are there, if you do a little research.

for example, bit boys World of Goo enjoyed a 90% piracy rate..

the numbers are also out there (i'll let you research to find it) for the COD4 piracy rate..

when you start to dig a little and actually accept the facts you will realize how much of a problem piracy is on the PC. I won't try and convince you but i suggest if you really care to know to start looking into it and you'll find the numbers.

Sometimes its unfortunate that people don't listen to the old school PC developers like EPIC and iD and what they are saying, these are people that their heart and soul belonged to the PC platform that have been driven away by a big slap in the face. You can stick your fingers in your ears and say "LA LA LA LA LA" all you want but doesn't change what is going on or how much of an issue it is.

The problem is, how much of that 90% would have bought the game to begin with? How many ppl pirate the game, doesn't equate to how many ppl would actually buy the game.

Personally, I'd miss Epic, but as far as id goes. I don't care if they go bankrupt, die out, John Carmack gets hit by a meteorite.

Have you seen Bulletstorm, epic's next collab project ?

yeah, that's why pc gaming is dying.

how many copies do you think Bulletstorm will sell?

I won't be buying it.
 

masamune

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most people pirate the full version and buy it if they like it...get used to it
How do you know that? Anecdotal evidence?
How do you know it's not the select few that buy it if they like it and most end up not buying it because they already played it?
 

Mchart

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Yeah, SiN Episode 1 pissed me off simply because it continued the amazing SiN franchise but we didn't get more then that first Episode because ritual got ate up by a casual game company. SiN episode 1 was a great game. Decent graphics for the time, enhanced the source engine by introducing multi-entity entities. (NPC's wearing armor that was actually treated as seperate objects by the engine. So the body armor actually worked like in real life) It also had the insane difficulty level that would also auto-tone itself depending if you were sucking or owning at the game. Continued the awesome story, and the game opened up with an awesome boob shot of Alexis. Also had that decent soundtrack.

Damn shame Ritual got bought up.

And Epic is full of shit. Stop developing games that suck. Period. Valve still is developing AAA ultra expensive to develop epic FPS's for the PC. Their games sell great. Why? Because they don't suck ass. Indie developers have it better then ever now as well. No longer do they have to suck some publishing companies dick to get their product printed and boxed. All they have to do is workout a reasonable deal with Valve and stick their product on Steam. The content hosting, and everything else is provided then as well - And the indie company isn't being ass raped. I don't know how much money Valve takes per dollar sold of a product. I'd guess a reasonable 10%-20%. Thats a lot better then most other publishers who without a doubt take more then 50% and also then can force around the development studio with development time lines.

Epic just can't move into the future. They just don't get it, and I see many other old school developers doing the same.
 

jstnomega

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 4, 2001
Messages
1,706
Money is the only reason any of these companies exist. If you want studios more into the "art" of game development stick to indie titles.

Precisely.

Huge difference between a can, or even a barrel, of Sherwin William' finest & any of Monet' Water Lillies. They're both paint but only one is art.
 

PrincessFrosty

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
5,905
Epic have made the same mistake that a lot of developers have, they've wanted a share of the console market and they've launched headfirst into developing a multiplatform title, in their case UT3.

The problem is that making a multiplatform title brings to the PC all of the constraints of the console, we get crappy menus, we lose dedicated servers, we aren't allowed ping readouts, the game just looks a lot worse, there is a significant loss in graphical fidelity, and quite often the gameplay is slayed to be be pittfully simple.

PC gamers are used to a higher quality of game in all regards and when you sacrafice the quality of your game then you're not going to make many PC sales. So of course the console version sells well, because it has a much larger userbase for these AAA titles to start with, and most of the PC community is recoiling to the awful consolized piece of rubbish.

Epic was hit particuarly hard because the UT series had been staple as part of the hardcore gaming crowd for a very long time, so of all the PC games/franchises to consolize this was probably the worst choice. Relasing a game aimed at a hardcore gaming market with things like a server browser you can't even order by ping correctly...thats instant death.

Epic are now a massive company probably with many very rich shareholders and a large board of directors all pressuring them to make financially sound moves. The most financially sound move IMO is to make a PC game which appeals to a PC audience and then cut that game down to work on a console, this way you maximise the benefits (and sales) of each platform.

Instead they opted to work in reverse building games for the consoles and then porting them to the PC with most of the console traits left over. So of course they're going to see the PC in a bad light.

I say good riddance, they're obviously so involved with making money now and not passionate about making good technology and games anymore, they have no room to improve the technoloty they use on consoles, they've lost their edge. They're no longer at the forefront of gaming technology, they stagnating at the rear with all the other console developers and will continue to make the same medicore games over and over. That's not something we want for the PC, we want developers that continue to push the boundries of what the PC can do, like Crytek, 4A games (who made metro 2033), and GSC (STALKER series)
 

socK

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
4,131
Funny how UT2004 sold fine. UT3 was about 1/86th as much fun.

Also funny is how Valve has none of these problems. They know how to work their magic. SALES. People buy the fuck out of shit on sale, so says Gabe... and it seems to be true. GAME ON SALE ON STEAM? Top seller list, every single time.


Bigger the sale, more people buy it. Valve drops a 75% sale and TONS of people are buying it... so many in fact that they actually make a profit compared to normal price AND more people get it in their hands. Win for them, win for players. Valve has sales CONSTANTLY and their prices ACTUALLY COME DOWN, not sit at 50-60 dollars forever.

I probably wouldn't have bought the new GTA title if it wasn't $22 during that recent sale. I saved $7. I wouldn't have bought AVP if it wasn't $2... even though it's normally $5. I wouldn't have bought a lot of shit if I didn't catch it on sale.

Epic is just bullshitting. UT3 was a massive step backwards and they are surprised it didn't end up doing as well as their other titles... IMAGE THAT. People on PC expect a PC lead game from Epic, it's their fucking roots, not a consolized, dumbed down POS. UT3 was an OK game, really... but it wasn't FUCKING GREAT like it could have been.
 

socK

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
4,131
Couldn't edit, but furthering on the Valve point; they support the shit out of their fans. They personally respond to emails, they fucking listen.

I've had Gabe actually respond to me... and they actually sent me back a written letter and a GI Joe was a gift, as well as a signed HL2 hat. Completely random and completely awesome. WHO ELSE WOULD DO THAT?

Comon. Developers like to go to shit then complain.
 

Wizard220

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
469
socK you hit it on the nail head. Valve has by far the best bussiness model around and to be frank no one and I do mean no one comes even close to it.

And when you have the head huncho in charge makinng posts and replying to players in emails and so on says it all. Just like you said who else does that, well I can say no one.

I have boght a few hundred dollars worth of games off steam and I will continue to do so. For Valve itself I have bought every game that Valce has to offer. I am not talking thrid party games but the Valve games itself. I have them all. To be frank again it was the best pruchase(s) I have ever done.

These third party asshole of a developers better get off that wall street band wagon and actualy do a right game. Porting a console game to tthe pc just will not work. Take a good look at MW2 and see how that turned out. They IW gave the pc community a big fuck you and kissed that console ass up and down.

I do my homework before I buy and if it is found that the console is relesed "first" then I stay clear until I see some real reviews on it all. Also if you take a good look around all the big major gaming mags get PAID for doing a positive review. Hell IW paid these big gaming mag's big money to make MW2 the best thing since sliced bread.

Valve has me as a customer and so far Valve has not let me down. It has been a positive experences for me.

Epic brings a new meaning to EPIC FAIL. How about the law suits that says that Epic did not hand over all the new UE3 engine code to third party dev's when said third party devs paid full price for the engine. Yea Epic has zero room to talk crap about anything.

You know what its bullshit talk like this from a has been company that makes pirates go out and pirate their crap job games. Piratcy is not a PC issue, it is a dev issues because if the devs and pubishers actualy puts out a true pc game then people will buy it. Intead these same bullshitters of a dev/publicher house just does a good job on consoles then ports them over to pc and then crys when the money doesnt come flowing in.

Epic you are a true EPIC FAIL
 

Xizer

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
227
What a stupid argument. It's actually easier to pirate console games than PC games. No need to worry about any DRM, entering CD keys, copying cracked files, patching, etc. with console games. All you have to do is just literally download an ISO onto a hard disk. Or burn it to a disc. Bam, you're done. Have fun.

Let me tell you what's killing PC gaming. The sloppy porting. The obnoxious patching. Games that STILL require you to have to go and download a no-DVD crack to play the title properly. Why the hell in the year 2010 are there STILL games that require the DVD in the disc tray to play by default? It is absurd. Yeah, those DVD checks have really done something to stop piracy.

Most importantly, it's the dumbing down and consolization of titles.
 

DeadSkull

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
4,482
epic_fail.jpg
 

bigstusexy

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 28, 2002
Messages
3,146
My ass they just need to look beyond publication on CD. Just slap a reg/use code on the product and attach it to stream. Built in easy to use anti piracy code.


Agreed, whats killing the PC is Developers and old thinking. There is nothing fundamentally different from a PC to a console. Some might think "oh but you can't run any old code on a console" not true, you can do this legally but it can be done. Second would be that the system is monitored if online. The same can be done on the PC. It wouldn't be fool proof but it would be a deterrent and could be a lot better than the verify CD schemes and what else they are putting on computers.

Second is developers that seem to have become stupid over the years. We've gone from playing text based games to games with graphics then games that if you have a network you could play together to games needed TCP/IP to... They can't do co-op on the PC anymore.... Really? You can still do multiplayer.... multiplayer against bots.... but you can't do co-op?
 
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