Epic Claims Exclusives Strategy Success after Metro Exodus Outsells Last Light at Launch

Aireoth

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Couldn't disagree more.

First and foremost it's the principle of the thing. I will not reward a company that pursues anti-consumer exclusive bribes with my hard earned cash.

Secondly, in this day and age when everything is spying on us, it is in everyone's best interest to minimize the number of apps and programs they have installed.

I already have Steam and GOG, and it will be a cold day in hell before I install or use any other client, including the Microsoft store.

I won't even buy a title in Steam if it means I have to sign up for a third party client when I run the game (I'm looking at you EA/Origin).

The last thing I need is yet another set of malicious DRM and spyware installed on my machine, or yet another service that had my payment info that can get hacked.

At this point I don't care anymore. If a title is not on either Steam or GoG it won't be getting my money. No franchise, no title has enough of a draw that an exclusive is going to suck me over, and honestly I am disappointed in all those who are so pathetically weak-willed that they don't even put up an assemblamce of a fight and allow the anti-consumer assholes to win.

I'll stop playing games all together before I give those evil sons of bitches any of my money.

Sadly when games went mainstream, the refined and intelligent consumers like you got buried in the avalanche of the bored, maximum reading, coors drinking, masses.

When was the last good COD game (yes, they where a decent game at one time, I think it ended around Modern Warfare in 2007 or maybe Black Ops in '10? The masses kept that shit going for ever.
 

CAD4466HK

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Sadly when games went mainstream, the refined and intelligent consumers like you got buried in the avalanche of the bored, maximum reading, coors drinking, masses.

When was the last good COD game (yes, they where a decent game at one time, I think it ended around Modern Warfare in 2007 or maybe Black Ops in '10? The masses kept that shit going for ever.

I would say the last good one was World at War IMO.
 

luisxd

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they're giving the game for free in GPUs lmao, that's not a success.. this proves that having a lot of money doesn't make you an expert on what you invest it..
 

Darunion

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they're giving the game for free in GPUs lmao, that's not a success.. this proves that having a lot of money doesn't make you an expert on what you invest it..

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ati-offers-bonus-to-half-life-2-bundle-buyers/1100-6077350/

Half life 2 was handed out with video cards before the release of the game. Bundles are not a metric, they are another sku and that is all. Probably could find a bundle for every game ever released bundled with a video card or some kind of peripheral.
 

TheSmJ

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ITT:

crybaby.jpg
 

CAD4466HK

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https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ati-offers-bonus-to-half-life-2-bundle-buyers/1100-6077350/

Half life 2 was handed out with video cards before the release of the game. Bundles are not a metric, they are another sku and that is all. Probably could find a bundle for every game ever released bundled with a video card or some kind of peripheral.

Hell some people buy cards just for the games if you can believe it.
Out of all the bundles I've ever gotten with a video card, only one was worth it, GTX 570 came with Mafia 2 and Just Cause 2.
 

Darunion

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Hell some people buy cards just for the games if you can believe it.
Out of all the bundles I've ever gotten with a video card, only one was worth it, GTX 570 came with Mafia 2 and Just Cause 2.

Can't recall them at the moment but game bundles have always pushed me over the edge when i am on the fence with buying new hardware.
 

exlink

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TordanGow

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^All of what he said....

Plus I'll add that I have more hobbies vying for my money than I have disposable money. The publishers, devs., and Epic are free to do make whatever exclusivity agreement or whatever other distribution setup they want.... but.... if I object to their choices I'll just spend my money elsewhere. They need to convince me to buy their game, it's not the other way around. I don't get mad or angry, I'll just shrug my shoulders and do something else. If you don't like what a company is doing regarding non-essential products, just remember - they need you more than you need them.
 

zamardii12

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Nvidia cards sold 50% of the game.

This is the thing. I've been really waiting for Exodus and I vowed to not buy it because I didn't want another launcher since I always have Steam, Origin, UPlay, and GOG Galaxy installed. However I just bought a RTX 2080ti and obviously I couldn't resist playing it so I have the Epic launcher installed now. However, I definitely won't be buying any games on there.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Sadly when games went mainstream, the refined and intelligent consumers like you got buried in the avalanche of the bored, maximum reading, coors drinking, masses.

When was the last good COD game (yes, they where a decent game at one time, I think it ended around Modern Warfare in 2007 or maybe Black Ops in '10? The masses kept that shit going for ever.


I don't know. I've never enjoyed anything in the CoD or BattleField series. But then again, I never tried the early ones. In college (1999-2003) my time was preoccupied with Counter-Strike. After that, in ~2004 I went straight to the Red Orchestra Combined Arms UT2004 mod, and later Red Orchestra Ostfront 41-45, and it's mods (Mare Nostrum and Darkest Hour) and later Red Orchestra 2.

I spent several years as a Member of 2.Fjg running the top RO2 server in the world, but when it went down in late 2015 (due to a combination of DDOS issues and dwindling numbers of worldwide players of the game) I just kind of stopped playing multiplayer games. I've been playing only single player stuff ever since late 2015. Some of it good, some of it not so much.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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All of these arguments also need to take into account that the game was pirate-able within 48hrs of release or something.

Regardless, So many people are slaves to steam that most of the arguments are going to be one sided, and not actually arguments but yelling matches. I just use whatever launcher I need to play the game I want, if you don't have enough space in 2019 to handle that, you're doing it wrong. If that upsets you, don't play.


Whenever you spend money on anything, no matter what it is, you are voting with your wallet on what kind of a world you want to live in. Buying a product is never just buying a product. When you spend that money you indirectly endorse and support everything the organization you gave your money to does, including their suppliers.

I don't want to live in a world where it is OK for companies to pay bribes to secure exclusive access to titles and limit choice for consumers.

Keep that in mind.
 

Mode13

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Related news: The most ultimate ultimatum in ultimate gaming history ever has been ultimately proposed:
(related because Borderlands 3 is yet another epic exclusive)

 

5150Joker

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Related news: The most ultimate ultimatum in ultimate gaming history ever has been ultimately proposed:
(related because Borderlands 3 is yet another epic exclusive)



Well Gabe sat on his fat ass all these years milking Steam and didn't even bother to come up with a new version of CS or Half Life. If Valve made a new version of either of those two games, everyone would go nuts and these publishers wouldn't even look at Epic.
 

Flogger23m

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I'm not sure. I think it had a slow start. It was - after all - a tunnel shooter from a previously unknown developer.

I feel like it gained notoriety over time as more tech sites used it for testing, as it was one of the more challenging titles graphically at the time, and one of the first to get patched with DX11 support.

The first game received a well reception. It wasn't like Last Light dropped out of nowhere. People like to pretend 2033 didn't exist. But yes, Exodus was anticipated and more people were expecting it. Same can be said for any video game series really.

If being Epic exclusive was such a deal breaker it wouldn't have sold so well. Instead it went on to sell just as expected, if not better. Clearly it wasn't a deal breaker for the majority of PC gamers. In the age of people having 4-5 clients I don't think people worry about installing yet another for a game they really want. Obviously some people didn't buy it, but then again, others bought it day one because it was $50 on Epic rather than $60 on Steam. It likely evens out. 15,000 didn't buy it, 15,000 were swayed to buy it early due to the price reduction.


Shady chinese company, spyware, stupid interface, shady business practices, no cloud saves, no steam friends, no personal profile, no achievements, why shouldn't it be right next to where we own borderlands 1 and 2, and so on and so on. It's been done to death and people have their positions, fair on each side IMO.

No achievements is a massive advantage over Steam. I've been waiting a decade for Valve to remove those horrendous pop ups. Despicable and one of the reasons I preferred the cracked versions of some games over the Steam versions. One of those was Metro 2033. The Steam version is outright inferior because the mood and immersion is constantly broken due to the Steam pop ups. As for the stupid interface, look here:
https://www.vg247.com/2018/11/27/steam-new-ui-design-developer-conference/

Utter trash and a fugly mess. A huge step back from what we have currently. As if Valve couldn't make their client more cheesy, ugly and obnoxious. Steam is starting to resemble a cheap Chinese flea market with their new designs and constant in your face garbage. Personal profile? I use Steam to play games, not for some trash Facebook/Myspace type social media site. Last thing I want is Steam to become Facebook.

Related news: The most ultimate ultimatum in ultimate gaming history ever has been ultimately proposed:
(related because Borderlands 3 is yet another epic exclusive)


Do it Valve!

But realistically, the lack of engine fees is what pushed Gearbox over likely. Valve needs to make a kick ass game engine and copy Epic's no royalty fee model if sold on Steam to compete.

Remember how jaw dropping Source was back in 2004? I can't believe they're still peddling that engine in 2019.
 
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MavericK

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Related news: The most ultimate ultimatum in ultimate gaming history ever has been ultimately proposed:
(related because Borderlands 3 is yet another epic exclusive)


He wouldn't do shit because he's a goddamn liar and a crook. Fuck Randy Pitchford.
 

Mode13

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No achievements is a massive advantage over Steam. I've been waiting a decade for Valve to remove those horrendous pop ups. Despicable and one of the reasons I preferred the cracked versions of some games over the Steam versions. One of those was Metro 2033. The Steam version is outright inferior because the mood and immersion is constantly broken due to the Steam pop ups. As for the stupid interface, look here:
https://www.vg247.com/2018/11/27/steam-new-ui-design-developer-conference/

Utter trash and a fugly mess. A huge step back from what we have currently. As if Valve couldn't make their client more cheesy, ugly and obnoxious. Steam is starting to resemble a cheap Chinese flea market with their new designs and constant in your face garbage. Personal profile? I use Steam to play games, not for some trash Facebook/Myspace type social media site. Last thing I want is Steam to become Facebook.



Do it Valve!

But realistically, the lack of engine fees is what pushed Gearbox over likely. Valve needs to make a kick ass game engine and copy Epic's no royalty fee model if sold on Steam to compete.

Remember how jaw dropping Source was back in 2004? I can't believe they're still peddling that engine in 2019.

Heh you know what, I never stopped and thought about it from the perspective of somebody who DOESN'T like achievements. Do they still pop up even if you disable the steam overlay? Either way I could see how that would be annoying. I've just been enjoying achievements ever since I got my playstation 3 and was hooked on getting "blings" lol. I was happy to get the free Borderlands 1 overhaul today because I can watch the achievements unlock again. To each their own there for sure.

and oh no.. Please don't force me to use some obnoxious GUI that makes me browse through all of my games by giant icons like netflix.. I don't want anything to do with that. Sometimes the old fashioned way is better.. Text and drop down menus = better.
 

x3sphere

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Heh you know what, I never stopped and thought about it from the perspective of somebody who DOESN'T like achievements. Do they still pop up even if you disable the steam overlay? Either way I could see how that would be annoying. I've just been enjoying achievements ever since I got my playstation 3 and was hooked on getting "blings" lol. I was happy to get the free Borderlands 1 overhaul today because I can watch the achievements unlock again. To each their own there for sure.

and oh no.. Please don't force me to use some obnoxious GUI that makes me browse through all of my games by giant icons like netflix.. I don't want anything to do with that. Sometimes the old fashioned way is better.. Text and drop down menus = better.

I don't think they show up if you disable the overlay.

I personally like achievements as well, but understand why some don't. Either way Epic is adding them to their platform as well soon.
 

M76

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Look at all this money I have, and game developers don't want it.
 

Delicieuxz

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All of these arguments also need to take into account that the game was pirate-able within 48hrs of release or something.

Regardless, So many people are slaves to steam that most of the arguments are going to be one sided, and not actually arguments but yelling matches. I just use whatever launcher I need to play the game I want, if you don't have enough space in 2019 to handle that, you're doing it wrong. If that upsets you, don't play.

Disagree. I haven't been seeing arguments that are vapid 'I want Steam only', but arguments that make sense and that point out real issues and concerns.

I also see that there is a crowd which just wants to go for the obtuse hipster thing and be anti to the people who criticize EGS, and those people are frequently making baseless straw man arguments against the critics of EGS just to be anti to them.
 

M76

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Disagree. I haven't been seeing arguments that are vapid 'I want Steam only', but arguments that make sense and that point out real issues and concerns..
Well, actually I do see sometimes that from more primitive gamers over the net, but at least they're on the right side even if for the wrong reasons.
 

trandoanhung1991

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Did you read mine? Several games on Steam you can't buy anywhere else. For a LONG time Steam was the only place to buy games.



No those are products only avaliable thru a certain retailer. In other words a retailer exclusive product. This is nothing new, not even in PC gaming. That's why I don't understand all the outrage.



I don't know, what will it take to penetrate your head that I wasn't talking about a launcher? I was talking about retailer exclusive products which have been around a long time even in PC gaming... It was even the first sentence in that paragraph that you quoted but chose not to read or understand.

Please give examples of games that Gaben paid the developers to have it sold exclusively via Steam. Games that sold only through Steam because the devs chose to doesn't count.
 

Comixbooks

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Blah blah blah, fuck Epic. Borderlands 3 will be an Epic Store exclusive, fuck them too.

lol going to buy it on EPIC
6 month wait is like a half of a year the thing is though Gearbox used to Unreal Engine for the game and Epic and Unreal go hand in hand.
 

trandoanhung1991

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lol going to buy it on EPIC
6 month wait is like a half of a year the thing is though Gearbox used to Unreal Engine for the game and Epic and Unreal go hand in hand.

I love it. It means when the game releases officially on Steam it's gonna be fully patched and tested. Thank you for beta testing for us ;)
 

M76

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It seems to me that most people aren't even weak minded. They're just too ignorant to see why is it wrong what epic does.
 

MacLeod

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Please give examples of games that Gaben paid the developers to have it sold exclusively via Steam. Games that sold only through Steam because the devs chose to doesn't count.

Why? That didn't happen here. Epic offers a 12/88 revenue split with developers. Steam offers 30/70. Epic outbid Steam pure and simple.

No shady, under the table bribes or back room deals, they just outbid them. That's competition. It was a risk and a new angle to compete with Steam. Steam is so massive that there really is no competition for them. Epic is the first ones to come down the pike that were finally able to fire a shot across their bow. Will it amount to anything or spark off some real competition between them? Who knows but at least somebody's finally able to try something. Origin tried and couldn't make a dent and is kind of a shell now (and they used exclusivity too). GOG is like one of those nurse fish that attach themselves to massive sharks and feed off scraps. Epic might actually be able to pull off a competitive pc game retail market.

I don't know where users are going to report feedback since Epic doesn't have a message board.

They've got one for Fortnite. I'm sure they'd just add an Epic Store section to it.

https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/forums/
 

NukeDukem

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I don't care about the launcher. I want to support devs who make highly atmospheric, story driven single player experiences that push graphical boundaries. Exodus is a work of art despite some of the bugs. If the devs got a better deal with Epic and my $50 helps them make another game, it was well worth it.
 

exlink

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It seems to me that most people aren't even weak minded. They're just too ignorant to see why is it wrong what epic does.

I disagree. I think the majority of people just don't care since all they do care about is playing the game on their PC. That's it. They don't care what launcher it requires. They don't care about half of the features that the vocal minority cry about that Steam has but the EGS doesn't. As long as the in-game gaming experience is unaltered then everything else doesn't really matter to them.
 

trandoanhung1991

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Why? That didn't happen here. Epic offers a 12/88 revenue split with developers. Steam offers 30/70. Epic outbid Steam pure and simple.

No shady, under the table bribes or back room deals, they just outbid them.

Oh I can provide plenty of counter-claims to what you're claiming here. In fact, here we go:

https://www.engadget.com/2019/04/03/epic-to-continue-game-store-exclusives/

Relevant quote:
It's uncertain if the strategy is paying off for Epic, although Sweeney noted that the cash outlay was "significant" and that his company might not turn a profit from exclusives in 2019.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/21/...ves-pc-gaming-fortnite-steve-allison-gdc-2019

In addition to that, Epic has been paying out large sums of money to developers to launch their games exclusively on its store, creating a particularly heated point of contention between PC game fans and the company.
...
“I don’t think we plan to do it forever. I expect that we’re already seeing the ecosystem come to life, from a sales and users perspective,” Allison told a GDC crowd today at his Q&A, alongside fellow Epic employees Sergey Galyonkin, director of publishing strategy, and Joe Kreiner, head of business development.

“We’ll probably do it for a while,” Allison added.

Well? Are you going to deny the obvious still?
 

tetris42

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Couldn't disagree more.

First and foremost it's the principle of the thing. I will not reward a company that pursues anti-consumer exclusive bribes with my hard earned cash.

Secondly, in this day and age when everything is spying on us, it is in everyone's best interest to minimize the number of apps and programs they have installed.

I already have Steam and GOG, and it will be a cold day in hell before I install or use any other client, including the Microsoft store.

I won't even buy a title in Steam if it means I have to sign up for a third party client when I run the game (I'm looking at you EA/Origin).

The last thing I need is yet another set of malicious DRM and spyware installed on my machine, or yet another service that had my payment info that can get hacked.

At this point I don't care anymore. If a title is not on either Steam or GoG it won't be getting my money. No franchise, no title has enough of a draw that an exclusive is going to suck me over, and honestly I am disappointed in all those who are so pathetically weak-willed that they don't even put up an assemblamce of a fight and allow the anti-consumer assholes to win.
I honestly don't know what to make of your post. You say it's the "principle of the thing", but I have to wonder. See, I would argue the biggest anti-consumer move in the PC space has already happened with Steam itself. Before Steam, you owned your game, full stop. Now, "it depends." If it's a game with online DRM with no crack, you're effectively renting the game. Now most of the time you do own the game, but it's been around long enough that companies will shut down and you're left with nothing. This generally started with Steam.

I dislike DRM that means I don't have ownership of the game as well. I tried to avoid Steam as long as I could, but one look at the PC gaming industry shows I would have missed out on an ENORMOUS number of titles if I had to stay off it. I still don't like it, but it is what it is. So yes, I caved in and started using Steam. I don't defend it, but there are hundreds if not thousands of games available nowhere else if I didn't. To me, Epic, Origin, Uplay, Battle.net, is all just more of the same. If you're principled, GOG is the only company that doesn't do this bullshit. Everybody else is a mixed bag. I find it so petty that people will zealously defend Steam, yet condemn Epic. It's almost always hypocritical.

Remember all the outrage towards Steam at the beginning that you had to sign in to an online service and it was never fully in your control? What happened to that? From how you're talking, it sounds like you're a huge Steam fan. It sounds like your principles have already been compromised. I mean by all means correct me, but here's how I'm reading your post:

Loss of ownership, invasive DRM, requiring an online connection, personal data harvesting = okay AS LONG AS IT'S ONLY STEAM
Exact same thing from other companies = UNACCEPTABLE

I'm not defending Epic here so much as I think it's complete hypocrisy to be against them at the same time you champion Steam on the basis of "consumer rights." Pray tell, what rights as the consumer does Steam grant you that no other game store does?

If you're ACTUALLY principled about consumer rights, I'd say GOG is your only option for PC gaming. Everything else means you're compromising them. Most people do that to more or lesser extents (myself included) because they want to play additional games besides what GOG offers. I don't like it, but I'm not deluded about what's happening either.
 
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MacLeod

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Oh I can provide plenty of counter-claims to what you're claiming here. In fact, here we go:

https://www.engadget.com/2019/04/03/epic-to-continue-game-store-exclusives/

Relevant quote:


https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/21/...ves-pc-gaming-fortnite-steve-allison-gdc-2019



Well? Are you going to deny the obvious still?

I assume it's talking about Epic's commission being only 12% compared to Steam and GOG's 30% all the cash they're handing the developer that would normally be going to them under the 70/30 split other retailers use.

In the dozens of articles about the Epic/Deep Silver deal, those are the only two I see that word it like that and none of them make mention of a payout on top of the low commission rate. I would think that would be pretty big news and not something they would fail to mention.

It doesn't make sense to fork over a ton of cash beforehand and STILL give them the ridiculously low commission rate. That deal would definitely be a money loser. That could also be a violation of anti trust laws kinda like how Intel was paying OEM's like Dell and HP to not use AMD chips and that could open up a whole can of worms for Epic. But I admit that the way those 2 articles are worded, it does sound like it.

If that is what Epic is doing then all the outage would definitely have merit but I'm not sure it is. I've tried to find specifics on the Epic/Deep Silver deal but all I find is the 12/88 revenue split and nothing about a payout on top of that. Maybe I suck at Google tho. But if you can find me that it definitely would change my opinion.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I honestly don't know what to make of your post. You say it's the "principle of the thing", but I have to wonder. See, I would argue the biggest anti-consumer move in the PC space has already happened with Steam itself. Before Steam, you owned your game, full stop.

Absolutely not. Full stop.

You may have owned a media (floppies, CD/DVD) but unless you are a rightsholder, you have n ever owned any software in your life. You have owned a license that allows you to legally use it. The digital distribution model changes only the media part of it. And it is a little bit of a leap of faith, indeed, because if the store goes belly up, you lose access to the media. It is unclear at this point what would happen in in that case. I'd imagine you would have to petition the original studio or publisher for access.

Now, "it depends." If it's a game with online DRM with no crack, you're effectively renting the game. Now most of the time you do own the game, but it's been around long enough that companies will shut down and you're left with nothing. This generally started with Steam.

DRM predated Steam. As did various forms of copy protection.

Having online severs shut down is a reasonably new thing, but that has less to do with Steam, and more to do with the emergence of "official servers" and community servers falling out of favor. I oppose this (I wish official servers weren't a thing, and everyone were forced onto community servers, but apparently that is seen as "too hard" for the modern gamer to have to deal with :/

I dislike DRM that means I don't have ownership of the game as well.

Again, you've never had ownership of any game you've bought. Just a license. That license has only ever conferred a right to use the software, no ownership rights what so ever. I don't care if the game came on a floppy or on a CD, this has always been the case.


I tried to avoid Steam as long as I could, but one look at the PC gaming industry shows I would have missed out on an ENORMOUS number of titles if I had to stay off it. I still don't like it, but it is what it is. So yes, I caved in and started using Steam. I don't defend it, but there are hundreds if not thousands of games available nowhere else if I didn't. To me, Epic, Origin, Uplay, Battle.net, is all just more of the same. If you're principled, GOG is the only company that doesn't do this bullshit. Everybody else is a mixed bag. I find it so petty that people will zealously defend Steam, yet condemn Epic. It's almost always hypocritical.

Who is defending Steam?

Certainly not me.. I have time and time again (even in this thread I believe) been on the record stating that Steam has problems of its own. For many years Steam was the de facto exclusive digital distribution, store front. Again, having to go through a single store is a problem, as there is less competition. This applies as much to Steam as it does to Epic, or Uplay or Battle.net or any other service. In an ideal world, any store that wants to would be able to sell any title, pretty much like back in the brick and mortar days. Epic has taken this problem to a whole new level though. Steam was the de facto exclusive retailer because they were first, and because their 30% cut of sales was vanishingly small compared to the costs of distributing software via brick and mortar stores. Valve never paid millions to a publisher or developer to prevent them from distributing their game on any other platform. That's a whole new level of evil.



Remember all the outrage towards Steam at the beginning that you had to sign in to an online service and it was never fully in your control? What happened to that? From how you're talking, it sounds like you're a huge Steam fan. It sounds like your principles have already been compromised. I mean by all means correct me, but here's how I'm reading your post:

Loss of ownership, invasive DRM, requiring an online connection, personal data harvesting = okay AS LONG AS IT'S ONLY STEAM
Exact same thing from other companies = UNACCEPTABLE

I'm not defending Epic here so much as I think it's complete hypocrisy to be against them at the same time you champion Steam on the basis of "consumer rights." Pray tell, what rights as the consumer does Steam grant you that no other game store does?

Again, I don't like the Steam's model either. If I could choose just one store to get all of my titles from it would be GoG. No DRM, and much more consumer friendly. I feel stuck with Steam because of the size of my library with them. That doesn't mean that I want to add yet another service to be stuck with.

If you're ACTUALLY principled about consumer rights, I'd say GOG is your only option for PC gaming. Everything else means you're compromising them. Most people do that to more or lesser extents (myself included) because they want to play additional games besides what GOG offers. I don't like it, but I'm not deluded about what's happening either.

I agree. GoG is the most consumer friendly service. I wish they carried all titles. I would never use another store.[/QUOTE]
 
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