Epic CEO Tim Sweeney condemns loot boxes, says game companies should 'divorce themselves from politics'

GhostCow

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"The world is really screwed up right now. Right now our political orientations determine which fast-food chicken restaurant you go to. And that’s really dumb," he said, as quoted by IGN. "There’s no reason to drag divisive topics like that into gaming at all."
Sounds good to me. If they could get some forums going on the Epic Games Store that are less censored than the Steam forums I think that could win them some fans too

https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-ceo-tim-sweeney-condemns-loot-boxes-says-game-companies-should-divorce-themselves-from-politics/
 

Derangel

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Sweeny expanded on his take on politics on twitter:


He makes a good point. Good art comes from the artist, not the suits making demands. Bioshock's politics would have rung incredibly hollow if they had been forced on Irrational instead of coming from the developer's own intentions and feelings. Something people do need to take note of though: At no point is Sweeney saying games shouldn't be political or deal with political topics.

Also, his thing about "Fast food chicken". Umm...Yes, customers should speak up when they feel a company is doing something wrong. It sounds like Sweeney would rather people just shut up and mindlessly consumer everything and never call out shitty companies (especially hiw own) for doing things people don't like/

Now as far as loot boxes go: What a fucking hypocrite.
 

Brackle

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Sweeny expanded on his take on politics on twitter:


He makes a good point. Good art comes from the artist, not the suits making demands. Bioshock's politics would have rung incredibly hollow if they had been forced on Irrational instead of coming from the developer's own intentions and feelings. Something people do need to take note of though: At no point is Sweeney saying games shouldn't be political or deal with political topics.

Also, his thing about "Fast food chicken". Umm...Yes, customers should speak up when they feel a company is doing something wrong. It sounds like Sweeney would rather people just shut up and mindlessly consumer everything and never call out shitty companies (especially hiw own) for doing things people don't like/

Now as far as loot boxes go: What a fucking hypocrite.
Those aren't loot boxes, they are surprise mechanics!
 

Derangel

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I haven't played since it was in beta but last I heard there were no loot boxes. There was plenty of stuff you can buy but no random loot boxes that you have to pay for. I don't really pay attention to Fortnite though
They had things called "loot llamas" which were llama shaped pinatas that were effectively loot boxes. Epic even got sued over them.
 

Derangel

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Sounds like they've learned from their mistake and now you can see what's in the llama before you buy it, which makes it more like a randomized bundle where you know what you're getting

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/47039090
They're still loot boxes, even if they're "slightly" better. It's not like they're not still using the same psychological manipulation to sell them.
 

GhostCow

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They're still loot boxes, even if they're "slightly" better. It's not like they're not still using the same psychological manipulation to sell them.
Good point but it doesn't bother me if the user knows what they are getting. It's a huge step up from the couple of gacha games I made the mistake of playing
 

Flogger23m

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They're still loot boxes, even if they're "slightly" better. It's not like they're not still using the same psychological manipulation to sell them.
Certainly a variation of them but not the same if you know what you're going to get before you buy it. The worst part about traditional loot boxes is that you don't know what you'll get. Sounds like Fortnite now has more typical microtransactions.
 

Derangel

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Good point but it doesn't bother me if the user knows what they are getting. It's a huge step up from the couple of gacha games I made the mistake of playing
Certainly a variation of them but not the same if you know what you're going to get before you buy it. The worst part about traditional loot boxes is that you don't know what you'll get. Sounds like Fortnite now has more typical microtransactions.
Fortnite has had typical MTs since the launch of battle royale. They're the ones that started the stupid "season" thing every free-to-play game seems to be adopting these days.

Sweeney's statement really feels like him saying "Everyone should do this thing except for us, because we're special". It's something every CEO of a AAA company does when they try to pretend to care.
 

Flogger23m

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Fortnite has had typical MTs since the launch of battle royale. They're the ones that started the stupid "season" thing every free-to-play game seems to be adopting these days.

Sweeney's statement really feels like him saying "Everyone should do this thing except for us, because we're special". It's something every CEO of a AAA company does when they try to pretend to care.
They didn't start seasons, those existed before Fortnite. Nothing is new with Fortnite. I suppose it has its unique flair to some things but nothing in particular is new. Battleroyale, free to play, micro transactions, cartoon look, cosmetics. All done before, PUBG, TF2, you name it. Second sentence is "meh". They removed them, assuming they don't add them back then good on them. Kind of like how Newell said SP games are pointless and they'd never do another SP only game again, or the PS3 was "a waste of everyone's time" yet ended up integrating Steam with the console. If one revises their stance, good on them.
 

Algrim

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Also, his thing about "Fast food chicken". Umm...Yes, customers should speak up when they feel a company is doing something wrong. It sounds like Sweeney would rather people just shut up and mindlessly consumer everything and never call out shitty companies (especially hiw own) for doing things people don't like/
It's more like why should I know the politics behind the company that makes my fast-food chicken? It's not like I can order a chicken sandwich with a side of anti-(fill in the gap here) political crap I'm not interested in. If they're not selling it at the drive-through window or in the franchise store, they shouldn't be making it a deal in the first place.

And Sweeney is a hypocrite. :censored:
 

Derangel

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It's more like why should I know the politics behind the company that makes my fast-food chicken? It's not like I can order a chicken sandwich with a side of anti-(fill in the gap here) political crap I'm not interested in. If they're not selling it at the drive-through window or in the franchise store, they shouldn't be making it a deal in the first place.

And Sweeney is a hypocrite. :censored:
In the case of said fast food chicken, the complaints were about the groups the company itself supported and the actions those groups took. No one said you, personally, had to care.
 

Delicieuxz

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Sounds good to me. If they could get some forums going on the Epic Games Store that are less censored than the Steam forums I think that could win them some fans too
I think that Tim Sweeney being for separating developers from politics indicates that Epic might censor any political discussion on their forums, and not that they'd let politics be freely discussed on their forums.
 

GhostCow

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I think that Tim Sweeney being for separating developers from politics indicates that Epic might censor any political discussion on their forums, and not that they'd let politics be freely discussed on their forums.
Businesses should be "neutral venues," where employees and customers alike "can hold their own views and not be judged by us for that," he said.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong but it sounded to me like he was advocating free speech. I'd be happy if I could at least say "fuck" or call someone a cuck on their forums since I can't even do that much on Steam
 

Derangel

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Maybe I'm reading this wrong but it sounded to me like he was advocating free speech. I'd be happy if I could at least say "fuck" or call someone a cuck on their forums since I can't even do that much on Steam
He's really only talking about developer-publisher stuff. Epic has said they won't censor political talk during esports stuff, but that has yet to be put to the test. Also, if you're calling someone a "cuck" you deserve what you get. That has nothing to do with free speech.
 
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GhostCow

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He's really only talking about developer-publisher stuff. Epic has said they won't censor political talk during esports stuff, but that has yet to be put to the test. Also, if you're calling someone a "cuck" you deserve what you get. That has nothing to do with free speech.
I only do it when it's called for. Like when someone is being super autistic and gets called out on it and then some little bitch wants to whine about how that's mean to autistic people or whatever. It's not like you get banned for that on steam. It just comes out as ****. Super sensitive people who want to language police should be called cucks.
 

Lakados

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I only do it when it's called for. Like when someone is being super autistic and gets called out on it and then some little bitch wants to whine about how that's mean to autistic people or whatever. It's not like you get banned for that on steam. It just comes out as ****. Super sensitive people who want to language police should be called cucks.
It’s never called for....
 

DukenukemX

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To be honest Tim Sweeney's compliance is no longer a factor. The industry is learning that putting in loot boxes or micro-transactions doesn't sell games very well. Sure they make a lot of money from micro-transactions themselves, but has anyone wondered how much money was lost from game sales? The answer is a lot. I was shocked that Borderlands 3 doesn't have micro-transactions as well as the upcoming Doom Eternal. It's pretty clear the negative press games receive for having these deplorable practices in a $60 game doesn't result in higher profits. So games have started to either back off entirely or add them into the game later on, usually after the reviews of the game are done.

As long as micro-transactions and loot boxes are constantly criticized then we have nothing to worry about.
MxEeMpC.png
 

Derangel

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To be honest Tim Sweeney's compliance is no longer a factor. The industry is learning that putting in loot boxes or micro-transactions doesn't sell games very well. Sure they make a lot of money from micro-transactions themselves, but has anyone wondered how much money was lost from game sales? The answer is a lot. I was shocked that Borderlands 3 doesn't have micro-transactions as well as the upcoming Doom Eternal. It's pretty clear the negative press games receive for having these deplorable practices in a $60 game doesn't result in higher profits. So games have started to either back off entirely or add them into the game later on, usually after the reviews of the game are done.

As long as micro-transactions and loot boxes are constantly criticized then we have nothing to worry about.
View attachment 223015
The lack of loot boxes and MTs are being used as a marketing gimmick right now to drive sales. That isn't to say that MTs and stuff don't make a ton of money, it just heavily depends on the game and who they're marketing it at. It's clear that a lot of the "core" gaming audience is either anti-MT outright or lacks the amount of "whales" publishers want to make massive MT pushes worthwhile. At least that's how it is if your company isn't named ActivisionBlizzard or Take Two.
 

jiminator

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Game companies do not make “a lot” of money from loot boxes and micro transactions, they make most of their money. There have been lots of articles written about the so-called “whales” and how they spend just tons and tons of money on games, ridiculous amounts, that more than make up for any lost sales. As an example look at the F2P games. How many sales do they have? It’s irrelevant
 

Derangel

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Game companies do not make “a lot” of money from loot boxes and micro transactions, they make most of their money. There have been lots of articles written about the so-called “whales” and how they spend just tons and tons of money on games, ridiculous amounts, that more than make up for any lost sales. As an example look at the F2P games. How many sales do they have? It’s irrelevant
I think it was Take Two that announced they made a billion dollars from "recurrent spending" in just the last quarter.
 

T4rd

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agreed, please tell sony to stop their BS
Sony? Console exclusives != PC game store exclusives.

Console exclusives sell consoles and are a necessary evil to justify their existance and that's been the case since the dawn of video games and consoles in general. I'm good with it too if that's what it takes to breed the best games across any other platform like Nintendo and Sony have delivered on a consistent basis, plus there's the other ancillary benefits consoles offer over PC that I appreciate as well.
 

Aix.

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They had things called "loot llamas" which were llama shaped pinatas that were effectively loot boxes. Epic even got sued over them.
Those were (are?) in the "Fortnite: Save the World" PvE game that released before the Battle Royale variant.

Fortnite: Battle Royale is the game that actually got popular and has never had lootboxes (you can buy cosmetics directly from the store).
 

RanceJustice

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It seems like everything this man says is hypocritical. Either he is completely devoid of self-awareness or this is a bad-faith disinformation campaign. He's been on a roll the past few weeks.
 
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It seems like everything this man says is hypocritical. Either he is completely devoid of self-awareness or this is a bad-faith disinformation campaign. He's been on a roll the past few weeks.
he just follows the $$$ and the path of least resistance public consensus. people are getting exhausted from political stress and the jitters from media constantly battering them with doom and gloom. so people saying "hey lets be nice(less politics)" i think appeals to normal people.
 
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