ENERMAX LIQTECH TR4 AIO Liquid CPU Coolers Review

cyberguyz

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I wonder if they responded to Kyle's inquiry. Maybe hardocp should retract the award and add more info to the review. Because there are literally people that bought a 100% failure rate product as a result of the review .
Yeah I'm waiting to hear what they have to say as well. Though I would not jump the gun and say it is a 100% fail rate. Yes there are a lot of similar complaints out there, but mine is working ok so far, but I am keeping a very close watch on it. I will see when its age hits 6mths - 1 year.

100% would imply they all failed, nobody intelligent samples at size=1. There has been no recall or supply notice yet, not to mention my pair still work fine every day so far. (data is not the plural of anecdote blah blah etc)

Maybe you should wait a bit before jumping to conclusions or internet hysteria hyperbole, having been in the computer parts world for awhile (among others) its more likely particular supply batches or production runs had problems than an entire line being defective. They would probably at least be off the shelves by now if the total fail rate was high enough to drive RMA costs through the roof or the first waves revealed a huge design flaw. Regardless of the outcome it takes time to play out.

With the various early reports there is definitely a closer eye being kept on these, I'm sure I'm not the only one logging pump rpm, cpu temps, ambient and load (otherwise temp is basically useless) full time now. With summer heat kicking in still no degradation yet.
Big picture this is the dice you roll with $100-range AIOs versus the gpu+cpu loop I want to build for TR2 will be $700+ easy, and thats just for a workhorse/man-portable setup not balls to the wall fancy.
This is not a $100-range AIO. It is easily the most expensive AIO I have ever purchased ($180 CAD). At this point I would not say they have all failed. On the other side of that we have not heard from everyone that experienced this degrading performance issue. So far mine is working fine, but it is only a month & 1/2 old. However Enermax does resell other water coolers so I expect them to have the chops to be able to create/source a unique one like this that has coolant and parts that do not interact with each other or plug the waterblock up with sludge. If it does, well, I have a full custom loop on the way to replace it.
 

branana

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100% would imply they all failed...

Yes I did overly exaggerate with my wording. I get that people whose AIOs are still working are not making posts talking about it . However, being a product for an enthusiast platform our sample sizes are small to begin with . From the threads that did get posted the failures are not rare occurrences . They seem to be the result of beginners mistakes when it comes to water-cooling.

From what people have posted, Enermax RMA process is decidedly subpar and they also outright refuse to guarantee components damaged as result of leakage .


The cooler also has not been to market very long, I feel like we will see a bit more of these failures. Given the premium pricing and how catastrophic an AIO failure can be, I think we deserve a response from Enermax.
 

LurkerLito

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Actually I will comment on the RMA process. My replacement is due to arrive this coming Monday. My not being able to contact Enermax initially seems to stem from the fact that enermax.com seemed slow to respond to their contact form, which basically told me to go talk to enermaxusa.com to actually get something done. RMA started on 6/19, shipped it out on 6/20 and replacement will arrive on 7/16 so just under a month (shipped using slow ground service due to shipping costs). I wasn't asked if I wanted some kind of cross shipment kind of deal, but I didn't ask if they offered it because I bought a replacement immediately when the AIO started really failing. So I am not sure if they even offer that kind of service, which in hindsight would have been a better way to go.

So if you need to RMA your unit you might want to send the following info with the initial email because they will ask for it:
• Full name & contact phone number
• USA Return Shipping address
• Model number & serial number
• Proof of company name & purchase receipt / invoice that is showing that you purchase date and model number.
• Take a full picture of model number & serial number and defective unit.
 

LurkerLito

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Received the RMA-ed unit today apparently they used fedex smart post so USPS delivered it the last step. They shipped me a brand new sealed unit. I opened it up to just check it and it's not leaking so I closed it up and shelved it for now. I probably should plug it into a PSU molex to 3 pin connector and check to see if the pump is running.
 

FrgMstr

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Well, found out today why I have gotten no replies from my requests sent to Enermax. I truly thought they were ducking the issue and sent an email yesterday telling them that no reply was not acceptable. Got this today.

Sorry for the delayed reply. Sylvia is no longer working with us, and I just checked her email and found you were there. Regarding the issue discussed in the forum, I will talk to HQ this later afternoon, and I believe we will provide the analysis result ASAP.
 

doyll

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While that makes sense it seems strange a company would let a rep leave and not notify all people that rep was dealing with or monitor that company email account for emails for peeps trying to contact that rep. At the very least they could have closed her email account so your emails to her would have come back as deliverable.
 

LurkerLito

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Another update. The TR4-360 I purchased on 6/17 is now starting to act up. The temps while just browsing the web are now sitting at 47c-48c for the past 2 days. I am going to guess that if I remove the cooler shake it up then reinstall it the temps will go back to normal for a few days. I am going to guess and say that there is probably some kind of build up on the copper fins that is blocking it's ability to cool properly and by shaking it, it will dislodge some of the build up and start working again temporarily. But that just delays the inevitable failure when there is too much build up that can't be shaken out of the fins. I'll give it a try later today. I definitely look forward to what Enermax will tell Kyle. It's going to be a week since Kyle's last post and their "ASAP" feels a bit slow to me. ;)
 

doyll

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Indeed, More like 'we will take our time letting you know' than ASAP.
 

Aluminum

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While that makes sense it seems strange a company would let a rep leave and not notify all people that rep was dealing with or monitor that company email account for emails for peeps trying to contact that rep. At the very least they could have closed her email account so your emails to her would have come back as deliverable.
I agree on the handing off of job roles which rarely seems to happen when people give their 2 weeks but:
FWIW any enterprise worth its salt disables bounces/out-of-office replies to untrusted domains, of which all personal webmail domains are by default. (better ones disable untrusted outbound at all barring specific mailboxes) Those automated replies are a hidden gold mine for phishing among other things.

Sadly quite a few are not worth their salt, and I've had to clean up some of them because of this, repeatedly :(

Still a pair of 280s here chugging along, no real temp change. Fuck this rain though.
 

FrgMstr

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Got an answer back from Enermax:

Recently we’ve received a small number of faulty LIQTECH TR4 coolers returned by users who reported the problems similar to those discussed on HardOCP Forum. According to our engineer’s inspection report, due to the insufficient vacuum that causing certain % of defective units released in the market. And we have immediately resolved the problem with the supplier, and the quality is now under control.

Our RMA team (support@enermaxusa.com , rma@enermaxusa.com ) is fully responsible and expedite the RMA procedure as fast as possible.

We’re truly sorry for any inconvenience caused.


I did call and talk to Enermax today. They have assured me that all claims with its RMA department will be handled in quick fashion. I did an anonymous mail to its support@enermaxusa.com address and told them I had a faulty TR4 unit. Enermax emailed me back in less than 2 hours with the following reply:

Dear Customer,

Please provide us confirm the following information to update your case:

· Full name & contact phone number

· USA Return Shipping address

· Model number & serial number

· Proof of company name & purchase receipt / invoice that is showing that you purchase date and model number.

· Take a full picture of model number & serial number and defective unit.



After we receive this information it will go under RMA procedure.

We will issue you a FedEx call tag label that will allow you to ship the TR4 cooler back to our repair center at no cost to you.


Best Regards,

LEPATEK CORP

Enermax USA SUPPORT


Enermax did explain to me that this was a priority with them and they want you issues solved ASAP. I also did ask about serial numbers on units, so hopefully we can get those numbers if the manufacturer can nail it down.

I did check the two units I have hear, that have been in a non-air conditioned storage shed for a while now. Running both those through some tests showed they were still working properly.
 

branana

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That good to hear . Is there any way to identify via serial number or manufacturing date the bad batch? Is Enermax also planning to compensate users of those identified bad parts for damages to other system components?


Thank you for reaching out Kyle . Without your journalism we might have never found out what's up .
 

FrgMstr

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That good to hear . Is there any way to identify via serial number or manufacturing date the bad batch? Is Enermax also planning to compensate users of those identified bad parts for damages to other system components?


Thank you for reaching out Kyle . Without your journalism we might have never found out what's up .
Quoted from the post above.... Enermax did explain to me that this was a priority with them and they want you issues solved ASAP. I also did ask about serial numbers on units, so hopefully we can get those numbers if the manufacturer can nail it down.

As for hardware, you will need to ask Enermax about that, I did not. I would suggest reading their warranty.

What parts did you lose with the issue?
 

LurkerLito

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So I guess I should assume the one they sent back to me is a "defect free" version. I will have to start another RMA for the current one I have installed and put in the one enermax sent me. I guess only time will really tell for sure. I'll try to make time and do it tonight.
 

branana

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So I guess I should assume the one they sent back to me is a "defect free" version. I will have to start another RMA for the current one I have installed and put in the one enermax sent me. I guess only time will really tell for sure. I'll try to make time and do it tonight.
That's the other awkward part, with a gpu rma you'll know right away if it's DOA. This you gotta wait months.
 

FrgMstr

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I didn't lose any parts. I just wanted to know if they have any plans to do that. Obviously a lot of customer faith was lost in this fiasco. With out definitive serial number/dates I can't afford to put the AIO back into the system .


For me I'm just trying to gauge if I should put the AIO back on my threadripper system. There just isn't any alternatives in the space . Using a U14S with the side panel off isn't really a permanent solution .
If you are not comfortable, then do not do it.
 

FrgMstr

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Due to a very particular build: Cerberus X case, Zenith Extreme EATX, I really have no other choice on the market. I am holding off. Following the topic closely. and/or seeing if another maker will release a TR4 AIO.
There will be an upcoming AIO revision for Threadripper 2.
 

x3sphere

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I just noticed this, I had to pay $25+ to ship mine insured to them. :(
This might be a [H] press coverage special addition. ;)


Yeah it would be nice if they gave some SN's that we can look for before we disassemble the machine to make sure we weren't shipped one from a defective batch, but I will for the moment assume that the one they shipped me is from a batch without the problem. I'll know for sure in 6 months lol.
Same here, still waiting on them to approve the RMA as I just sent my info off to them, but they said "Customer is responsible for shipping cost returning RMA product to LEPATEK." So guess I will have to pay too.

Paying the $25 isn't a big deal to me, but disappointing they aren't taking on full ownership of the problem IMO. This was 100% their fault, and especially if it's only a small amount of units as they claim, I dunno why they aren't footing the shipping bill. I likely won't buy another Enermax product again based on my experience with this so far...
 

FrgMstr

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Same here, still waiting on them to approve the RMA as I just sent my info off to them, but they said "Customer is responsible for shipping cost returning RMA product to LEPATEK." So guess I will have to pay too.

Paying the $25 isn't a big deal to me, but disappointing they aren't taking on full ownership of the problem IMO. This was 100% their fault, and especially if it's only a small amount of units as they claim, I dunno why they aren't footing the shipping bill. I likely won't buy another Enermax product again based on my experience with this so far...
Ask for return shipping to be provided and all for cross shipping.
 

cyberguyz

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It's kindof a bummer that Enermax is the only game in town if you want the simplicity of an AIO cooler. I would have hoped more vendors would have stepped up with their own TR4/SP3 AIO solutions by now. It kinda sucks that the only alternatives are a couple air coolers and a custom LC loop.
 

branana

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It's kindof a bummer that Enermax is the only game in town if you want the simplicity of an AIO cooler. I would have hoped more vendors would have stepped up with their own TR4/SP3 AIO solutions by now. It kinda sucks that the only alternatives are a couple air coolers and a custom LC loop.
Actually Alphacool has something in the works: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/prototype-watch-alphacool-eisblock-flatboy-tr4-pump-block-combo.8149/

Don't know if it ever come to fruition. But if they are going after 1U/2U markets, it probably won't cost them too much to release to consumers.
 

cyberguyz

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Actually Alphacool has something in the works: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/prototype-watch-alphacool-eisblock-flatboy-tr4-pump-block-combo.8149/

Don't know if it ever come to fruition. But if they are going after 1U/2U markets, it probably won't cost them too much to release to consumers.
While a nice bit to turn two components into one, you still have get your own rad, plumb and do the coolant alchemy yourself. The end result would look as simple as an AIO.

For meself I would rather take the next step and just do the custom loop since I get more control of the pump, hose sizes and whether/not to use a reservoir (<-- usually a good idea). But that is a good halfway step for sure.
 

branana

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While a nice bit to turn two components into one, you still have get your own rad, plumb and do the coolant alchemy yourself. The end result would look as simple as an AIO.

For meself I would rather take the next step and just do the custom loop since I get more control of the pump, hose sizes and whether/not to use a reservoir (<-- usually a good idea). But that is a good halfway step for sure.
Yeah, but you do have the choice of buying a COPPPPPPPPER rad of your choice, unlike these damn AIOs.
 

LurkerLito

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Decided to not spend the time to swap out the current AIO. So I just opened up the machine and removed the pump then shook it and reinstalled it. Now my temps are at 39c while I type this when just a few minutes ago I was doing the same thing but at 47c-48c. I'll probably wait till the weekend before I swap out to the one they sent me back. Then I can RMA this one. Though I am a bit curious as to how long it will take for the build up to occur again. From my previous experience once it starts happening it takes 2-3 weeks at first, then a week, then every 2-3 days and eventually it just becomes hours to minutes before the temps start spiking when doing next to nothing, forget about doing anything you stress the CPU with at that point.
 

PolygonGTC

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It's kindof a bummer that Enermax is the only game in town if you want the simplicity of an AIO cooler. I would have hoped more vendors would have stepped up with their own TR4/SP3 AIO solutions by now. It kinda sucks that the only alternatives are a couple air coolers and a custom LC loop.
Actually Alphacool has something in the works: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/prototype-watch-alphacool-eisblock-flatboy-tr4-pump-block-combo.8149/

Don't know if it ever come to fruition. But if they are going after 1U/2U markets, it probably won't cost them too much to release to consumers.
Also, EK offers an AIO solution. You buy the CPU block and the rad/pump separately.It uses quick connects, but it states they come primed with EK's fluid. I was considering this option, but I don't care for the connectors... they just don't look clean. Everything else about the setup is awesome. I've considered buying one and swapping out the hose, possibly, and using one of their other blocks. I've considered just doing an open loop as well. However, after seeing this thread I might go with the Enermax unit. Especially if there's a better revision for the 20xx series CPU.
 

cyberguyz

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Also, EK offers an AIO solution. You buy the CPU block and the rad/pump separately.It uses quick connects, but it states they come primed with EK's fluid. I was considering this option, but I don't care for the connectors... they just don't look clean. Everything else about the setup is awesome. I've considered buying one and swapping out the hose, possibly, and using one of their other blocks. I've considered just doing an open loop as well. However, after seeing this thread I might go with the Enermax unit. Especially if there's a better revision for the 20xx series CPU.
I think I would call that modular rather than AIO. I know EK makes some good, but costly products. Not sure if I would be in the same boat as I am now with my AIO when the coolant expires (and EK's will expire). At present I am simply waiting for my compression fittings & flow meter to arrive on the slow boat from China. Once they arrive I can get started on my custom loop (my idle temps are starting to creep up - used to be around 28c when new it is now sitting at 38c-41c idle). I'm a bit disappointed in the longevity of Enermax's coolant.
 

PolygonGTC

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I think I would call that modular rather than AIO. I know EK makes some good, but costly products. Not sure if I would be in the same boat as I am now with my AIO when the coolant expires (and EK's will expire). At present I am simply waiting for my compression fittings & flow meter to arrive on the slow boat from China. Once they arrive I can get started on my custom loop (my idle temps are starting to creep up - used to be around 28c when new it is now sitting at 38c-41c idle). I'm a bit disappointed in the longevity of Enermax's coolant.
Yeah, I suppose that is true. It's price also certainly doesn't put it in the same catergory as mainstream CLC's either. For the Enermax unit, at least you can change the fluid rather than toss it in the bin and start over. I'm still torn about the direction I'm going to go. I saw that Alphacool is doing a block/pump combo with a TR4 cold plate. Certainly not a CLC/AIO, but a cool middle ground between those and custom loop. Hopefully it comes out sooner than later. I might get the Enermax initially and move to that, provided the pump is decent.
 

Zinn

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I've been running the 360 version since January and it's still going strong - so I certainly haven't been affected by QC issues.

Gotta say tho, the 'twister bearing' fans that come bundled are kind of crap (way too loud). Just today I swapped them out with Corsair SP120's and it's cooler and quieter.
 

cyberguyz

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Yeah, I suppose that is true. It's price also certainly doesn't put it in the same catergory as mainstream CLC's either. For the Enermax unit, at least you can change the fluid rather than toss it in the bin and start over. I'm still torn about the direction I'm going to go. I saw that Alphacool is doing a block/pump combo with a TR4 cold plate. Certainly not a CLC/AIO, but a cool middle ground between those and custom loop. Hopefully it comes out sooner than later. I might get the Enermax initially and move to that, provided the pump is decent.
Yeah I will be doing the coolant change thing on my Enermax (along with disassembling & de-gunking the block, pump & rad - yuck!) after the custom loop is installed & running.

Zinn - haven't had any issues with the fans. I have them controlled by the motherboard so most of the time they are running on a slower speed. Though they will get louder as the PC continues to heat up.
 

Nathan_P

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I've been running the 360 version since January and it's still going strong - so I certainly haven't been affected by QC issues.

Gotta say tho, the 'twister bearing' fans that come bundled are kind of crap (way too loud). Just today I swapped them out with Corsair SP120's and it's cooler and quieter.
The corsair fans may be quieter but they do not have the same level of performance as the enermax fans.


Corsair 120mm Static Pressure 1.29 mmH20
Enermax 120mm Static Pressure 0.673 – 6.28mm-H2O
 

PolygonGTC

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Yeah I will be doing the coolant change thing on my Enermax (along with disassembling & de-gunking the block, pump & rad - yuck!) after the custom loop is installed & running.
If I do get the Enermax, I'm contemplating changing the fluid day one.
 

Shokolate

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We bought Enermax AIO coolers for our Ryzen workstations. 5/7 have been confirmed to have failed and I expect the others to be failing when they are inspected.

The way that these fail is really frustrating and sneaky. The cooling degrades over time. Sometimes, it's slowly and sometimes quickly. From other reviews, I am told that the inside of the cooling block (attached to the CPU) corrodes and clogs the pipes. That matches with our experience, as over time, the cooler becomes ineffective and running at 100% does nothing.

Several reviews have also stated that their coolers began leaking, which I would guess it also do to corrosion and blockage. However, I haven't experienced that, first-hand.

After wasting a lot of time and money on these, I no longer want these coolers at all and just want my money back.
 
Last edited:

FrgMstr

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We bought Enermax AIO coolers for our Ryzen workstations. 5/7 have been confirmed to have failed and I expect the others to be failing when they are inspected.

The way that these fails is really frustrating and sneaky. The cooling degrades over time. Sometimes, it's slowly and sometimes quickly. From other reviews, I am told that the inside of the cooling block (attached to the CPU) corrodes and clogs the pipes. That matches with our experience, as over time, the cooler becomes ineffective and running at 100% does nothing.

Several reviews have also stated that their coolers began leaking, which I would guess it also do to corrosion and blockage. However, I haven't experienced that, first-hand.

After wasting a lot of time and money on these, I no longer want these coolers at all and just want my money back.
So have you replaced the coolers and contacted Enermax?
 

Shokolate

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I've been running the 360 version since January and it's still going strong - so I certainly haven't been affected by QC issues.
Have you run any stress tests? You have to track the temperatures. The 360s we bought could easily cool the system at max. load, when they were first installed. Over time, they became less and less effective. We tried stress-testing one yesterday and the temperature immediately hit the roof; it would have started throttling the CPU if we let it continue. But you could easily do day-to-day things with the computer and never notice until the thing goes completely bad (which will happen).
 

Zinn

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Have you run any stress tests? You have to track the temperatures. The 360s we bought could easily cool the system at max. load, when they were first installed. Over time, they became less and less effective. We tried stress-testing one yesterday and the temperature immediately hit the roof; it would have started throttling the CPU if we let it continue. But you could easily do day-to-day things with the computer and never notice until the thing goes completely bad (which will happen).
Sure, I'm running Prime95 blend now -- ambient temps are unbearable as I'm in the second floor with AC off. CPU is currently not budging from 67C and I barely any fans (have a quiet curve set up). Will report back after awhile.

FWIW when I was switching the fans out for the Corsairs, I noticed a couple of screws on the water block had a quarter turn of play, so I retightened them. I wonder if repeated heating/cooling is loosening and messing with contact over time.
 

Zinn

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Forgot to turn it off and fell asleep. So Prime95 running overnight at stock in a high ambient temp room maxed out at 68C.

This seems good to me!
 

notarat

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ALCON,

I've been in contact with Enermax over the abysmal reviews found online regarding the LIQTECH TR4 cooler.

They told me Monday they are getting ready to introduce a new version of it which resolves the build quality issues and the issues with corrosion/evaporation
 

Shokolate

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Forgot to turn it off and fell asleep. So Prime95 running overnight at stock in a high ambient temp room maxed out at 68C.

This seems good to me!
If you're doing everything stock, the CPU will throttle at 68°C. For example, I saw the temperature on one computer hold at 68°C but the core speed dropped to 0.5GHz. It was very slow and almost unusable. When the cooler was new, it easily held the same computer below 60°C, running at 100% CPU usage on all cores.

What is your ambient temp, approximately?
 

Shokolate

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ALCON,

I've been in contact with Enermax over the abysmal reviews found online regarding the LIQTECH TR4 cooler.

They told me Monday they are getting ready to introduce a new version of it which resolves the build quality issues and the issues with corrosion/evaporation
That sounds interesting. Did they send an e-mail with that information? Any indication on when it might be available?
 
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