Encryption Showdown? FBI Can’t Get into Texas Church Shooter’s Phone

[Jagger100]

The content on the phone could change his sentence from death penalty to life inprisonment. This is important business.

Because he's dead he technically has no rights. What's at issue is the government requiring lock makers to make a pass-key for all the locks in your house. It wouldn't be long before those keys get out and locks became useless. Does this make us more secure since Law Enforcement mostly does not do interdiction.

Imagine the damage of Bad Actors being able to penetrate anyone's database. Easily learning things like people's secure routes, codes to alarms, information to force blackmail, etc.

 

[fadedlogic]

I don't get it either but motive of these people are important for some reason. He was more then likely mentally unstable and had his reason to do what he did. Finding out the motive really wont change anything or help prevent future incidents.

Motive - Colossal, self-loathing loser with clear mental health issues decided to take out self-loathing frustrations on a group of people who he knew were going to be helpless at the time of the incident in order to gain notoriety because the press won't stop plastering his face and name all over the place. It is documented that publishing these asshats names and photos is a big motivator in their despicable acts.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/10/media-inspires-mass-shooters-copycats/

https://qz.com/515977/its-time-to-change-the-way-the-media-cover-mass-shootings/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...e-next-copycat-killer/?utm_term=.c56414f6e9a0

http://concealednation.org/2015/06/...publish-the-names-or-photos-of-mass-shooters/

http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/02/media/media-decisions-naming-showing-killers/index.html

I attended a briefing last month about mass shooters/killers presented by the Texas Rangers that included chilling 911 recordings during multiple active scenes superimposed on re-recreation videos. A point the Major kept hammering away over the course of the entire 2 hour briefing was refusing to name the cowardly and twisted individuals who conduct these acts. DO NOT NAME THEM!

Back to the point, there is nothing of merit to be gained from cellphone that they already haven't developed or can develop via other means.

 

[lcpiper]

Once you create a backdoor, the software is not secure. Once you create that back door, our government (as well as our enemies) will gain access and use it against us (U.S. Citizens) and our government, as well as others. There's simply too much information in a phone to give the government access whenever they want it. And for what? Nothing. Did they get anything when a company cracked the San Bernadino shooter's iPhone? AFAIK, they did not and they're unlikely to get anything new form this guys phone that will change a thing or lead to any other prosecutions.

I refuse to accept that it's impossible to engineer a secure means to access encrypted data. I just don't believe it and I won't ever accept it. It's like saying we are all too fucking stupid to figure it out. Furthermore, I think those that stand on this claim just don't want it. That alone is fine with me, but ffs have the balls to stand behind your decision instead of pawning it off as impossible.

 

[Meeho]

I refuse to accept that it's impossible to engineer a secure means to access encrypted data. I just don't believe it and I won't ever accept it. It's like saying we are all too fucking stupid to figure it out. Furthermore, I think those that stand on this claim just don't want it. That alone is fine with me, but ffs have the balls to stand behind your decision instead of pawning it off as impossible.

You refuse to accept that an oxymoron is an oxymoron?

 

[Deleted member 245375]

I refuse to accept that it's impossible to engineer a secure means to access encrypted data.

It's not really possible to create something for an end user that is secure if it allows for access by someone (or some entity) else simultaneously. If anyone other than the end user can access the data/device/whatever using any means available that by definition means it's never really secure in the first place.

 

[Todd Walter]

I refuse to accept that it's impossible to engineer a secure means to access encrypted data. I just don't believe it and I won't ever accept it. It's like saying we are all too fucking stupid to figure it out. Furthermore, I think those that stand on this claim just don't want it. That alone is fine with me, but ffs have the balls to stand behind your decision instead of pawning it off as impossible.

That only highlights your ignorance of how encryption works. Educate yourself, starting with one-time pads.

 

[lcpiper]

That only highlights your ignorance of how encryption works. Educate yourself, starting with one-time pads.

Educate yourself with who you are talking to.

I started using encrypted communications in 1982, I have used all types of encryption equipment and I still manage them.

You start with the Key Book which has pages that list of settings for each of these key pins. You open this "Sandwich" and set the pins, then carefully close the "sandwich".

Then you "Zero" the Nestor, see the switch labeled ZEROIZE ? and you open the panel as shown, and push the "Sandwich" into it which sets the baffles inside. Carefully close the lid and hope the baffles stay set.

Test your coms and see if you can get anyone to hear you, the phrase you don't want to hear is;

"all I hear is a beep and a rush over"

If you can talk OK cool, now remove the page for this key set and burn it. The smokers all have lighters, talk to them.

Then hope everything stays in place while you drive around cause if those baffles pop loose and it changes the setting then your fucked and have to go find another team that has a sandwich set to today's key set. But to find another team, you have to call and ask them for a grid location, which you can't do over Red coms so ...... Maybe just wait until the guys bring chow, maybe they'll be smart and bring you a sandwich.

You don't want a full history of all my experiences with encryption do you ?

Oh, and I hope this shit loads slow as hell for you wise ass.

 

[Meeho]

Educate yourself with who you are talking to.

I started using encrypted communications in 1982, I have used all types of encryption equipment and I still manage them.

I hope you'll never manage mine.

 

[Extra-Titanian]

So if there was a hotel with 100 vegas style shooters holed up firing from all directions you dont think the military would deploy whatever assets necessary to neutralize the situation?

But you didnt answer my question and you attributed a quote i never made. Can I have a turret mounted .50 cal machine gun on my truck? Why or why not?

Yes. Will need either the stamp or a manufacturers license for the machine gun, but it's perfectly legal to mount a firearm to a vehicle. Get's kind of sketchy once you get into actually firing it though, but as to the rest of your garbage, you can own and mount a "5 barrel gatling gun" provided it's manually operated for the same reason as other vehicle mounted guns. Want a Javelin, go for it. Grenade launchers and rocket launchers are perfectly legal to own, just need the right paperwork and someone to sell you one, which they wont. Nuclear weapons fall under additional agencies and further discussion, when taken with your little made up "scenario" only serves to reinforce the fact that you're an idiot whose questions could be largely answered using this wonderful invention called Google. But of course, this is all off topic, if you'd like to learn about all the ways you're wrong, make a post in soapbox and someone will be along shortly.

On topic, the only way I could imagine a workable backdoor solution to work would be to implement a keying system where any device password is stored with an additional public key unique to each device. The courts would have to physically hand the device to the manufacturer who would bring it into their special unlocking room to their airgapped private key server. And it still wouldn't be effective because it'd only work for the encryption on the device itself and not any installed messaging/storage programs. Asking for "backdoors" is essentially moot, on every level.

 

[lcpiper]

So if there was a hotel with 100 vegas style shooters holed up firing from all directions you dont think the military would deploy whatever assets necessary to neutralize the situation?..............................

I sure don't .... posse comitatus act dude
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

 

[azuza001]

So all the courts need to do is claim Azuza001 is mental and a court will order it unlocked? I'm pretty sure that can be arranged. There's absolutely no doubt that if Apple makes a specific build of the OS the allow it to decrypt a random iPHone, they will get requests on a daily basis to decrypt phones. AFAIK, that's literally why they made it impossible for them to decrypt the phones.

If I have shot up a school or church or bus or something like that, your damn right they should be able to get into my phone. My argument is once something like this has happened, not before. Before it's a suspision of possible issue and they need a Court order and proof just like anything else. After? With me on video doing it? Or caught by police in the act? Then the company should be willing to help and not go "we don't want to set a president, if I do it for you I will have to do it for all criminals caught in the act beyond a reasonable doubt" at which point I say "uh, yeah, you should...."

 

[Whach]

Back door/breakable access defeats the purpose of encryption. If anyone can defeat it, fair enough. If they ask for backdoor access and are denied (for whatever reason....impossible to break etc), they are essentially asking them to not use encryption on the devices...it might as well be for that opposing purpose of encryption.

It all comes down to whether you believe and have trust/faith in your authorities/govt organizations to not abuse such ability. I would doubt it and not give them the ability. In use cases such as this, sure, give them all the info you can...but that is fantasy for specific events. Its all or nothing with encryption.

 

[Cantroy]

I am definitely more pro-privacy than a few of you on here, but then I used to be MI, and I have a few ideas and thoughts on the matter formed over years of distrusting those people I was in the government armed forces with me. I have spoken before on the quality of people I was in the MI with, and suffice it to say there was even a TV show on the murder that took place in my army company that my ex called to tell me about after she watched it...

and SHE is still IN the military. /afraid...

In the idea of absolute power corrupting people, go back and watch the debates on youtube between privacy advocates and the ex-general who was in charge of the NSA for yourself. HIGHLY worth it. Now, consider all of the reports you might have seen about cops using their helicopters or other people using satellites to view nude civilians and record them. KNOW that that is just the very tip of the iceberg. Heck, even the courts are in it for the money and such, and you can go to the small towns around Texas and go 2 miles over the speed limit but if you have out of state plates, KNOW you will be pulled over... but then just ask to pay double the fine and there will be no record of it anywhere.

No, I DON'T trust the courts, and I REALLY don't trust our law-enforcement people until I talk to them and am able to form a solid opinion of them over time, or am able to view their record. Note, this is why I can somewhat rely on Mueller in his current investigation as he has the record to back it up, no matter what side anyone is on. Integrity matters. I just feel integrity is a bit more rare than others think it is it seems. <that was the point of my mentioning this, please don't go anywhere on this topic in this thread. If you have to reply, do it in pm pls.

So, in light of this, I still firmly say no. No one should have a back door. Everyone has the right to keep their thoughts private, even if they put them down onto a phone or anything. Even if they take them to the grave or such. And I still say that they will likely get into it down the road anyway. All it takes is time. it IS a small computer, right? Computers can crack such very fast, as us humans tend to use short ones for most things, especially a phone we use often. (again, unless you are almost as paranoid as I am, and have one that might take billions of years to decrypt and uses names of imaginary places and people in it, just to make sure they are words NOT found in any dictionary, but even I don't use that on my phone.)
edits:
/agree Whach
/add NOT

 

[Kelby]

I like how Texas has the laziest gun laws in the nation and instead of putting regulations on AR-15s, the Texas Legislature would rather have a backdoor for cell phones.

 

[Hagrid]

I like how Texas has the laziest gun laws in the nation and instead of putting regulations on AR-15s, the Texas Legislature would rather have a backdoor for cell phones.

Why do you need to put a regulation on an AR-15?

 

[lcpiper]

I hope you'll never manage mine.

Well, on the off chance it comes to pass, know that I will do it according to company security policy and the law. I have no interest in poking around in your data or stealing and selling someone's IP. I will be diligent and caring of my customer because I want my company to have happy customers.

That being said, if the FBI drops by with a court order, I will deal with it according to company policy and direction. If policy says to notify my supervisor and follow his direction then that is what I will do.

If policy is illegal then I'll be having discussions with my company leadership on that one. And if a warrant looks valid and policy says turn it over, all your bases belongs to them.

So that is what you'll get.

 

[Gigus Fire]

Well, on the off chance it comes to pass, know that I will do it according to company security policy and the law. I have no interest in poking around in your data or stealing and selling someone's IP. I will be diligent and caring of my customer because I want my company to have happy customers.

That being said, if the FBI drops by with a court order, I will deal with it according to company policy and direction. If policy says to notify my supervisor and follow his direction then that is what I will do.

If policy is illegal then I'll be having discussions with my company leadership on that one. And if a warrant looks valid and policy says turn it over, all your bases belongs to them.

So that is what you'll get.

What company do you work for? I really don't want to do business with them in the future if they have ways to defeat their own encryption that they utilize for their customer's data.

 

[tazeat]

Isn't that the point of encryption? I don't want my data to be accessible, ESPECIALLY, if' I'm dead.

I will and do pay good money to Google (or Apple/Microsoft/etc) to offer a secure solution that guarantees this. So far they've done a pretty mediocre job of making that guarantee, but it mostly works... They should be strengthening those guarantees, not weakening them! THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I'M PAYING FOR WHEN I SELECT YOUR OS.

 

[FrgMstr]

What about a hummer with a .50 cal belt fed machine gun? The gov't has those. Can I have one?

Yep, if you can afford it.

Or how about a Javelin rocket launcher, those are pretty cool, I could see that being handy during an oppressive gov't take over.

Yep, if you can afford it.

I'm obtaining my pilots license right now, can I attach a 5 barrel gatling gun to it though?

Yep, if you can afford it.

What about nukes. The gov't as nukes. Can I have a nuke?

Not sure on that but I am guessing, no.

I like how Texas has the laziest gun laws in the nation and instead of putting regulations on AR-15s, the Texas Legislature would rather have a backdoor for cell phones.

Far from the most lax gun laws in the nation. You do realize the shooter was taken down with an AR-15, right?

 

[lcpiper]

I like how Texas has the laziest gun laws in the nation and instead of putting regulations on AR-15s, the Texas Legislature would rather have a backdoor for cell phones.

Dude, check reality;

Seven states and the District of Columbia have enacted laws banning assault weapons. The others are California, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts and New Jersey, according to the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. In addition, Minnesota and Virginia regulate assault weapons, the center said.

Google "States with assault weapons laws"

There remain 40 States that are all just like Texas, or even more lenient with gun laws.

In Arizona, anyone who is legally allowed to purchase a handgun can put one in their pocket, holster it, carry it concealed or holstered in their car, go anywhere they want with it subject to specific restrictions. You will see people with guns on them standing in line at the bank teller, eating in restaurants, walking around shopping at Walmart or the grocery store, pumping gas, and they do not require a permit, a license, registration, or training. It's been like this for at least 4 or 5 years now and it's amazing. Violent crime with firearms hasn't increased at all and in fact, has dropped from the information I have seen.

But aside from this, why would you assume that a young man who would do what this man did, who had a history like he did, why would he obey the law and not buy a gun illegally to do what he did? No law can prevent what this man did. Laws can't prevent such things but some wishful and self deluded people won't crawl out of their fantasy world and deal with that reality.

We need to take better care of people who are not mentally sound. A man that hurts his wife and child like he did isn't mentally sound and giving him some meds and telling him have a nice life is not an answer. A man that does what this man did can not be a man of sound mind and I don't think he just recently flipped his wig, he's been a bit whacked in the head for awhile now. A lot of people failed him and they failed the rest of us. People in that church and their families payed for it.

 

[Meeho]

Well, on the off chance it comes to pass, know that I will do it according to company security policy and the law. I have no interest in poking around in your data or stealing and selling someone's IP. I will be diligent and caring of my customer because I want my company to have happy customers.

That being said, if the FBI drops by with a court order, I will deal with it according to company policy and direction. If policy says to notify my supervisor and follow his direction then that is what I will do.

If policy is illegal then I'll be having discussions with my company leadership on that one. And if a warrant looks valid and policy says turn it over, all your bases belongs to them.

So that is what you'll get.

I'll get another privacy hating, overreaching government loving minion.

 

[lcpiper]

What company do you work for? I really don't want to do business with them in the future if they have ways to defeat their own encryption that they utilize for their customer's data.

My company doesn't really define such policies, our government customer does, the US Army. Our customer's data isn't private data, it's business data for software development. I am the storage admin, all the data resides on my systems. Their data is on a Military Installation, inside a SCIF (Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility), on a network that is not connected to any communications lines and has no lines running out of the building. And still, although the network is completely physically isolated my systems are patched, STIGed, and meet RMF accreditation just like the ones that are not isolated.

And don't worry about my company's name, we don't do business with anyone else' Army

 

[nysmo]

To add to this.
You can make your own guns and not even have to register them (as long as you don't try and sell them) and it's perfectly legal.

Hmm, I wonder why the vegas shooter didnt make his own guns.... couldnt possibly be due to convenience. I wonder if he would have armed himself with .50 cals if it was convenient. I wonder what the body count would have been knowing each round fired would eviscerate anything it hits. Oh well, I suppose it could have been worse, just like the next one will be.

 

[FrgMstr]

Ok now we're making progress, so you DO believe in gun control, we're just drawing the line at nukes.

How does answering your question frame my beliefs? You have no idea what I believe. And I drew no lines. Are you high or something?

 

[Hagrid]

Dude, check reality;


Google "States with assault weapons laws"

There remain 40 States that are all just like Texas, or even more lenient with gun laws.

In Arizona, anyone who is legally allowed to purchase a handgun can put one in their pocket, holster it, carry it concealed or holstered in their car, go anywhere they want with it subject to specific restrictions. You will see people with guns on them standing in line at the bank teller, eating in restaurants, walking around shopping at Walmart or the grocery store, pumping gas, and they do not require a permit, a license, registration, or training. It's been like this for at least 4 or 5 years now and it's amazing. Violent crime with firearms hasn't increased at all and in fact, has dropped from the information I have seen.

But aside from this, why would you assume that a young man who would do what this man did, who had a history like he did, why would he obey the law and not buy a gun illegally to do what he did? No law can prevent what this man did. Laws can't prevent such things but some wishful and self deluded people won't crawl out of their fantasy world and deal with that reality.

We need to take better care of people who are not mentally sound. A man that hurts his wife and child like he did isn't mentally sound and giving him some meds and telling him have a nice life is not an answer. A man that does what this man did can not be a man of sound mind and I don't think he just recently flipped his wig, he's been a bit whacked in the head for awhile now. A lot of people failed him and they failed the rest of us. People in that church and their families payed for it.

We had a guy walk around my work at a apartment complex with an AR-15. He was a pretty nice guy, but a huge player. I think he had 4 girls there that he got pregnant.... His wife was pissed.
I like the gun laws here in AZ. I don't know any stats but not sure where we rank on gun deaths. Most of those are probably in downtown Phoenix.....I do not go there....

 

[doz]

There's been more info about this guy and his phone than about the 4 phones from the MB32 shooter in the last 5 weeks.

 

[lcpiper]

I'll get another privacy hating, overreaching government loving minion.

I don't hate privacy brother, and I am not into government over reach.

I do on the other hand recognize that sometimes the government actually is working in my favor and sometimes I need their help. So I need them to be able to help should I need them.

There are many things I am not happy with when it comes to the government. It's too big and into too damned much. But I am not one that wants to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Our government is the way it is today because it is the product of over 200 years of evolution. Evolution that happens as a process of being made up of the people. It's going to take people to correct it and I'm not thinking that you'll fix the problems we have now in any single lifetime. Besides, not everything that the government has become is bad or wrong. I don't believe it is perfect, I don't expect that it will ever be perfect. I accept that individuals in the government will do things that are wrong, and I expect that they will pay for it even though I know this doesn't always happen, ergo, were back to people again, fallible and corruptible humans.

And to bring this to a close, I don't work for the government and am not their minion. I work for a civilian company that has a contract to perform specific services in support of a software development life cycle support project.

 

[lcpiper]

Isn't that the point of encryption? I don't want my data to be accessible, ESPECIALLY, if' I'm dead.

I will and do pay good money to Google (or Apple/Microsoft/etc) to offer a secure solution that guarantees this. So far they've done a pretty mediocre job of making that guarantee, but it mostly works... They should be strengthening those guarantees, not weakening them! THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I'M PAYING FOR WHEN I SELECT YOUR OS.

Well, better read that TOS agreement because that is about the only thing that will govern what happens to your phone and your data when you do die.

That being said, the way things are going right now, a cell phone at a homicide scene is evidence and the cops can take it and access it if they are able. If they are unable then they have every legal right to as businesses who are able to help them to do so. If a company feels that providing that help is too much a burden, they can ask the Judge for relief. This is exactly the process that we all just say play out in San Bernadino.

And this is the process at work.

 

[panhead]

I refuse to accept that it's impossible to engineer a secure means to access encrypted data. I just don't believe it and I won't ever accept it. It's like saying we are all too fucking stupid to figure it out. Furthermore, I think those that stand on this claim just don't want it. That alone is fine with me, but ffs have the balls to stand behind your decision instead of pawning it off as impossible.

You cannot un-burn a note written on a piece of paper. Deal with the fact that there are things in this world that cannot be undone.

 

[Cr4ckm0nk3y]

Hmm, I wonder why the vegas shooter didnt make his own guns.... couldnt possibly be due to convenience. I wonder if he would have armed himself with .50 cals if it was convenient. I wonder what the body count would have been knowing each round fired would eviscerate anything it hits. Oh well, I suppose it could have been worse, just like the next one will be.

He could have easily selected a semi-auto rifle with a larger round, like 7.62, and caused way more damage. The AK family would have been devastating due to the larger round. He most likely selected the AR platform due to its popularity and from what I read he had AR's in the past. Only 33 out of 47 were purchased in the last 12 months. Which brings the question why the ATF didn't visit him.

Ok now we're making progress, so you DO believe in gun control, we're just drawing the line at nukes.

Not owning nukes has nothing to do with gun control or 2A.

If one was properly licensed and had enough money you could get the explosives needed for the primary. You can even design and build the delivery vehicle or package.

Problem comes when you need fissile material. The US Govt controls all the fissile material, without it no nuke. It could be argued the current laws on making and possessing fissile material are against 2A, but you would need a ton of money and lawyers willing to sue the Govt. So in theory you could own a nuke...again if you had enough time/money.


Back to the topic, no reason for any manufacturer to help the Govt to break the encryption or provide a backdoor. Just like Garmin with certain GPS devices. They will not make encrypted data available to the US Govt even with an order to do so.

 

[Gasaraki_]

He wasn't a terrorist, he just had mental health issues, no need to get into his phone...

I'm sure any person going around killing other people is a terrorist. They don't have to be brown.

 

[tazeat]

Well, better read that TOS agreement because that is about the only thing that will govern what happens to your phone and your data when you do die.

That being said, the way things are going right now, a cell phone at a homicide scene is evidence and the cops can take it and access it if they are able. If they are unable then they have every legal right to as businesses who are able to help them to do so. If a company feels that providing that help is too much a burden, they can ask the Judge for relief. This is exactly the process that we all just say play out in San Bernadino.

And this is the process at work.

TOS has nothing to do with how offline data is stored? If designed right, there isn't anything the company CAN do even with a million dollars through at it. That's the point of a well designed system.

I don't care who TRIES to decrypt the data, the point is if it were properly protected in the first place, NO ONE would be able to decrypt it. Proper secure design that ensures this. This is what I'm talking about when I say I want to buy these security guarantees.

 

[lcpiper]

You cannot un-burn a note written on a piece of paper. Deal with the fact that there are things in this world that cannot be undone.

I'll distill it all down to a very simple statement.

The US Government will not allow a situation to stand where encryption is a golden bullet that prevents data access when warranted by law and the constitution. Now they will allow an individual to encrypt shit at home for personal use. But when you start transmitting it and other parties are storing it, they are going to demand access to it, and they'll get it. Particularly in a case where the data does not belong to a US person.

I have said it before, sooner or later, if industry will not take part in developing the best solutions possible, then one will be defined for them and they will use it or they will not operate. This is just what I see as an inevitability. If you think another outcome is possible you're welcome to it. Time will tell and I'm not the only one that has to deal with things as they are, or as they will become.

 

[lcpiper]

TOS has nothing to do with how offline data is stored? If designed right, there isn't anything the company CAN do even with a million dollars through at it. That's the point of a well designed system.

I don't care who TRIES to decrypt the data, the point is if it were properly protected in the first place, NO ONE would be able to decrypt it. Proper secure design that ensures this. This is what I'm talking about when I say I want to buy these security guarantees.

It's your device and your contract. I don't give a rat's ass if you are too lazy or all knowing to be bothered with determining what your provider will do with your data after your death.

 

[nilepez]

I refuse to accept that it's impossible to engineer a secure means to access encrypted data. I just don't believe it and I won't ever accept it. It's like saying we are all too fucking stupid to figure it out. Furthermore, I think those that stand on this claim just don't want it. That alone is fine with me, but ffs have the balls to stand behind your decision instead of pawning it off as impossible.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. You want Apple to engineer a backdoor into the software. That is, at best, security through obscurity, because if Apple can unlock a random iPhone, then either anyone can unlock it or, if it requires some special key or S/w that only apple has, it's only a matter of time before the NSA gets someone inside of apple with access to said key and they steal it.

And if i"m wrong, fine, when you come up with a bullet proof way to do this that not only can't be stolen or ever be exploited by the government or criminals and we are certain that it's existence can't be abused by way of the courts (FISA or otherwise), then we can talk. But I don't believe you'll even be able to do the former, and I'm certain you can't ensure the against the latter, because FISA is just a machine with rubber stamp. Sure it didn't work a couple of times, but no machine has 100% up time.

 

[Deleted member 245375]

it's only a matter of time before the NSA gets someone inside of apple with access to said key and they steal it.

Devil's Advocate here for a moment: I see that argument made all the time, and while the NSA is fairly creative and has a literally unlimited resources to get such an action done, I have to go back to a point I made earlier in this very thread that some secrets do exist and have been kept that way for incredibly long periods of time: the cracking of ENIGMA and the specific people involved in it, the formula for Pepsi/Coca-Cola/KFC Original chicken (seriously), and many many others.

If corporate espionage writ large has never 'cracked' some of those secrets which would use dirty tricks, blackmail, potentially injuries/torture/murder, and of course incredible sums of cash paid to whoever for the info, I have to wonder if the NSA would really be able to make such a thing happen.

I mean, Snowden has been "free" for many years now - no he's not free here in the U.S. which is the country of his birth and he'll more than likely never be able to return for any reason without some serious distress to his ability to do most anything at all, but he's out there and nobody in the U.S. government infrastructure has made any serious attempt to go get him (and his being in Russia isn't really a detriment if he's really on someone's list). Of course, the fact that he's been "free" for several years now could be part of yet another conspiracy but I'll let that one go.

Anyway, stepping away from being a Devil's Advocate now: if Apple has been relatively successful on keeping secrets itself for so long - most of their hardware and smartphone leaks happen at third party contractor sites or plants in China and other countries but not directly in Cupertino itself - then I suspect they'd be able to keep something like cracking one of their own device's security would be kept on the down low pretty well. Besides, if such a thing were put into action a FISA judge would slap a gag order on the entire proceeding anyway.

 

[Hagrid]

I personally don't care since I have nothing to hide on my phone. Not the brightest to have stuff like that on your phone to begin with really.....

 

[Deleted member 245375]

I have nothing to hide on my phone.

I'll bet you your smartphone that you do:

 

[Hagrid]

I'll bet you your smartphone that you do:

Unless somebody wants some meme's, pics of my truck, pics of my cats. Some music and instructional videos.
Phone numbers, which 75% are from Florida.... They might be able to check stuff on Amazon.

 

[Deleted member 245375]

Unless somebody wants some meme's, pics of my truck, pics of my cats. Some music and instructional videos.
Phone numbers, which 75% are from Florida.... They might be able to check stuff on Amazon.

Thank you for your candor.