Encrypt and Lock Your Phone - Go to Jail

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
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Messages
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The Miami Herald is reporting that a man suspected of child abuse has been sentenced to 180 days in jail because he did not give the police a working security code to access his iPhone. No matter your thoughts on this, there is absolutely no doubt that we are going to be seeing more and more of this and it brings up some rights that are spelled out in our US Constitution and Bill of Rights. I would expect that we will be seeing a high profile US Supreme Court case soon that will spell out exactly how the law will be applied in the future.

A Hollywood man must serve 180 days in jail for refusing to give up his iPhone password to police, a Broward judge ruled Tuesday — the latest salvo in intensifying legal battles over law-enforcement access to smart phones.

Christopher Wheeler, 41, was taken into custody in a Broward Circuit Court, insisting he had already provided the pass code to police investigating him for child abuse, although the number did not work.
 
I dont care what they would say to me, I would not give them anything. Even if 100% innocent I would never comply with something like this. I would refuse out of principal.

And yes - prove that I dont remember the passcode.
 
Uh, if I was accused of child porn or molestation I would provide them every possible proof against it.
 
B00nie said:
Uh, if I was accused of child porn or molestation I would provide them every possible proof against it.
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This is not a good idea. The burden of proof does not exist on you to provide it to the cops. The burden of proof exists on the state to prove you did it. You should provide proof only to your lawyer. Anything else is unwise at best and at worst will land you in jail or give them something to use against you.
 
kju1 said:
This is not a good idea. The burden of proof does not exist on you to provide it to the cops. The burden of proof exists on the state to prove you did it. You should provide proof only to your lawyer. Anything else is unwise at best and at worst will land you in jail or give them something to use against you.
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When innocent you don't need to hide anything. Simple as that. How can they land me in jail when I haven't committed any crime?

Refusing to show your phone when accused of a serious crime is 99,9% proof of guilt.
 
How twisted are you to take the side of a child molester, anyway?
 
B00nie said:
When innocent you don't need to hide anything. Simple as that. How can they land me in jail when I haven't committed any crime?

Refusing to show your phone when accused of a serious crime is 99,9% proof of guilt.
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You have a lot to learn in life bud. Actually, a SHITLOAD. If you think presenting potential evidence as if it will HELP your case of innocence, you're dead wrong.

There are plenty of people like you - they consent to things like a search of their car - and then they find something you never even realized was there. Before you know it you're pleading and begging and saying that it wasn't you ..... all because you consented under the stupid guise of "I'll look more suspicious if I don't consent".

Not to mention, consenting to searching an electronic device is about 50x worse than searching a physical car. Everything from the files you possess, to the websites you have visited, to the searches you have done - what other people have done on your computer - etc... are all ready to be combed through to try to prove whatever narrative they are after. You are never going to have a case of "Oh, he handed it over to us so we just did a quick glance and handed it back".

Before you know it, they find some CP on your computer in your temporary internet files because you browsed 4chan occasionally and someone posted a CP image that was (obviously) downloaded to your temporary internet files. Or you were curious and did a search for "how to make a bomb".


B00nie said:
When innocent you don't need to hide anything. Simple as that. How can they land me in jail when I haven't committed any crime?

Refusing to show your phone when accused of a serious crime is 99,9% proof of guilt.
Click to expand...

Maybe - if you're a mentally retarded person with that sort of twisted logic.
 
B00nie said:
When innocent you don't need to hide anything. Simple as that. How can they land me in jail when I haven't committed any crime?

Refusing to show your phone when accused of a serious crime is 99,9% proof of guilt.
Click to expand...

Thats just utter bullshit. You aren't hiding anything because you have nothing to hide. But that doesn't mean you share everything with the cops.

You havent committed any crime that you are aware of. Can you 100% guarantee you know every law and havent broken one that your phone can be used to incriminate you on? Because if not and the cops see it...guess what they can prosecute you for it. Even if you did it by accident.

Also its not just crimes you may have committed. You could end up providing them evidence to use against you in that case that is misconstrued. For example maybe you have pictures of your kids on your phone and the officers think those are very close to breaking the law...that can now be used against you in court to say "see look what he was doing to his OWN kids!" At the very least it gives them evidence (even if no crime occurred) that they wouldn't have otherwise had.

Check this out:

EDIT: Also not helping the cops is in NO WAY an admission of guilt. It only means you are being uncooperative and forcing them to follow THE LAW.
 
B00nie said:
Uh, if I was accused of child porn or molestation I would provide them every possible proof against it.
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Wouldn't want to be in that situation, but the worst thing you could do is just willingly give to the people who are accusing you. Get a lawyer. They already convicted you by accusation. Just a thought.
 
Zinn said:
It's better to have 100 scumbags walk free than to falsely imprison 1 person.
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I understand the emotional aspect behind this. Logically speaking though, letting 100 molesters free will cause infinitely more harm to innocents than falsely imprisoning one person.
 
alxnet7227 said:
I understand the emotional aspect behind this. Logically speaking though, letting 100 molesters free will cause infinitely more harm to innocents than falsely imprisoning one person.
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Its this kind of thinking that lands people in jail for things like protesting for civil rights...that is why the burden of proof is on the state to PROVE you are guilty and not you to prove innocence.
 
Nukester said:
Wouldn't want to be in that situation, but the worst thing you could do is just willingly give to the people who are accusing you. Get a lawyer. They already convicted you by accusation. Just a thought.
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Agreed. No matter what the police try to charge you with, always exercise your right to silence and an attorney first and foremost. From the moments leading to an arrest, the police have already been building a case against you because the burden of proof rests on them. The police are not your friends in this situation.
 
B00nie said:
When innocent you don't need to hide anything. Simple as that. How can they land me in jail when I haven't committed any crime?

Refusing to show your phone when accused of a serious crime is 99,9% proof of guilt.
Click to expand...

Ahh sweet innocence. Don't worry, you'll learn the legal system the hard way. Just remember, in the US it pays to put as many people in jail as possible.
 
alxnet7227 said:
I understand the emotional aspect behind this. Logically speaking though, letting 100 molesters free will cause infinitely more harm to innocents than falsely imprisoning one person.
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It's not emotional, it's logical. If we have to give up civil rights in order to incarcerate people, then we've realized a short term benefit (criminals behind bars) for a severe long-term cost (loss of civil rights).

If you trust our current government and all future governments to never abuse their power, then this is not a problem. But the founding fathers of our country set the Constitution up to protect against this.
 
kju1 said:
Thats just utter bullshit. You aren't hiding anything because you have nothing to hide. But that doesn't mean you share everything with the cops.

You havent committed any crime that you are aware of. Can you 100% guarantee you know every law and havent broken one that your phone can be used to incriminate you on? Because if not and the cops see it...guess what they can prosecute you for it. Even if you did it by accident.

Also its not just crimes you may have committed. You could end up providing them evidence to use against you in that case that is misconstrued. For example maybe you have pictures of your kids on your phone and the officers think those are very close to breaking the law...that can now be used against you in court to say "see look what he was doing to his OWN kids!" At the very least it gives them evidence (even if no crime occurred) that they wouldn't have otherwise had.

Check this out:

EDIT: Also not helping the cops is in NO WAY an admission of guilt. It only means you are being uncooperative and forcing them to follow THE LAW.
Click to expand...


I was just going to post that Youtube. From a former officer!
 
NickJames said:
My mom will second that, she's a retired officer and even she will tell you never talk to the cops without a lawyer. Anything you say or do CAN be used against you in the court of law.
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I have plenty of friends who have parents that are cops or relatives etc. All will echo the same thing. Never talk to the cops without your lawyer present.
 
Yep ANYTHING CAN BE USED AGAINST YOU IN THE COURT OF LAW!

Just look at my case, they are using everything against me that was typed. Even stuff that was not even related. Everything will be used against you, they are not your friends.
 
TheBuzzer said:
Yep ANYTHING CAN BE USED AGAINST YOU IN THE COURT OF LAW!

Just look at my case, they are using everything against me that was typed. Even stuff that was not even related. Everything will be used against you, they are not your friends.
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It's not the "Anything can be used against you" part so much so that it doesn't have "can be used for you". The fact that that part isn't included is what indicates they are seeking only to find a guilty party - not an innocent party.
 
I'm confused.

People here are saying don't give the cops your information, but the headline here is a guy who didn't give them information is now in jail for 180 days.

Why are you so sure that had he given up his passcode that he would be even worse off?


I know what's on my phone and I have absolutely nothing to hide. I guess I am a completely boring and straight edged citizen but so what?


If you say the burden of proof is on them to prove you did the crime then why do people provide alibis?
 
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B00nie said:
How twisted are you to take the side of a child molester, anyway?
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Kind of like how Michael Flynn or Donald Trump said if you are innocent, why do you have to take the 5th amendment? Why all of a sudden is Trump claiming executive priv or Flynn closed up and plans on taking the 5th amendment if they are innocent?

You never.....EEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRR give the police your access codes to your devices if you're innocent or guilty. Make them do the leg work.
 
We still don't have a standard to where this falls eh. Passcodes originally are suppose to be under self incrimination. Keys on the other hands are not because they exist physically in the world outside of your brain. Still we flip flop between courts on it when it comes to computers, funny enough because it used to be safes that we could break into if need be. Now that we can't break into it courts want to take it out of self incrimination. Although providing a false passcode will land you in contempt every time.
 
B00nie said:
When innocent you don't need to hide anything. Simple as that. How can they land me in jail when I haven't committed any crime?

Refusing to show your phone when accused of a serious crime is 99,9% proof of guilt.
Click to expand...
This is bad reasoning. How do you know you committed a crime to begin with? Do you know all the laws? What's to say that they won't find something else that's chargeable if you give them full access to everything? Then even if the first charge doesn't go through, you'll have other charges and they'll get you to plea bargain. It's a typical tactic used all the time.

I'm just saying this for your own good. If you choose to be stupid and play along with the "I'm innocent, here have everything" routine, you can only blame yourself for getting steamrolled.
 
So on this one, they DID have a warrant to access his phone. It is locked though and they needed the pass code. The suspect said that he can't remember the pass code, so the judge ordered 180 days jail time, or, if he gave them the correct pass code, they'll let him out. Sounds fair, and, if he really did forget his pass code, as he swore under oath, they should of kept his device, had him give them a LONG list of potential codes, and then let him out.

So the cops have followed the proper procedures, the suspect is just failing to give a key to his device.

Also, read the article, he isn't charged as a molestor, this is his charge:
"Wheeler was arrested in March on accusations that he hit and scratched his young daughter. He was charged with child abuse."

Which is still unacceptable.
 
SirMaster said:
I'm confused.

People here are saying don't give the cops your information, but the headline here is a guy who didn't give them information is now in jail for 180 days.

Why are you so sure that had he given up his passcode that he would be even worse off?


I know what's on my phone and I have absolutely nothing to hide. I guess I am a completely boring and straight edged citizen but so what?
Click to expand...

Nothing to hide doesnt equate to not guilty of a crime you didnt know you committed. Or that something innocent can be used against you in a way you didnt anticipate...
 
kju1 said:
Nothing to hide doesnt equate to not guilty of a crime you didnt know you committed. Or that something innocent can be used against you in a way you didnt anticipate...
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So I'm just supposed to go to jail for 180 days then? Rather than show them I don't actually have child porn on my phone?

Sorry, but I would rather take the chance that they find something on my phone especially when I know there is nothing worse than child porn on there than guaranteed 180 days of jail for withholding my phone passcode.

I can guarantee you there are no crimes on my phone. All I do on my phone is call friends and family, play games, and browse general websites such as hardforum.
 
SirMaster said:
So I'm just supposed to go to jail for 180 days then? Rather than show them I don't actually have child porn on my phone?

Sorry, but I would rather take the chance that they find something on my phone especially when I know there is nothing worse than child porn on there than guaranteed 180 days of jail for withholding my phone passcode.
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Thats your right to give up your rights and let the state invade your privacy. Me, I will take the 180+ days and then sue for violation of my civil rights once I get out.


scojer said:
So on this one, they DID have a warrant to access his phone. It is locked though and they needed the pass code. The suspect said that he can't remember the pass code, so the judge ordered 180 days jail time, or, if he gave them the correct pass code, they'll let him out. Sounds fair, and, if he really did forget his pass code, as he swore under oath, they should of kept his device, had him give them a LONG list of potential codes, and then let him out.

So the cops have followed the proper procedures, the suspect is just failing to give a key to his device.

Also, read the article, he isn't charged as a molestor, this is his charge:
"Wheeler was arrested in March on accusations that he hit and scratched his young daughter. He was charged with child abuse."

Which is still unacceptable.
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I dont care if they did. You cant prove that I am intentionally giving you the wrong code. You cant force me to admit to something and the burden of proof is on the state to prove it. A contempt charge is the worst they can do to you for this. 180 days in jail is excessive for contempt of court and I bet this will be a bad move for the judge...180 days is the MAX they can give you for contempt of court I believe. Prove that I do remember...you cant. I swear under oath I forgot you have to come up with proof otherwise.
 
SirMaster said:
So I'm just supposed to go to jail for 180 days then? Rather than show them I don't actually have child porn on my phone?

Sorry, but I would rather take the chance that they find something on my phone especially when I know there is nothing worse than child porn on there than guaranteed 180 days of jail for withholding my phone passcode.

I can guarantee you there are no crimes on my phone. All I do on my phone is call friends and family, play games, and browse general websites such as hardforum.
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Here's an example:
So you have bank account apps on your phone?
Did you sell something on ebay worth over 1000$?
Did you forget to claim it on your tax forms?
Ohh noes, tax evasion. Welp, now you can plea bargain about the child porn case with them. They've railroaded another sucker and they put another notch on their career.
 
Cyraxx said:
Nah, I would be: "Ok officers - I'll tell you the password as best as I can recall. I think it's 123456. Oh, that didn't work? Try 123457. Oh, that didn't work? Try 123458. Oh, that didn't work? And it's wiping the phone? Oh I'm sorry :( "
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Which is part of why he was charged with contempt and sentenced to 180 days not withstanding whatever he may be sentenced to regarding the actual offenses. Those charges BTW are that he smacked on his kid, not child porn or any of that "throw away the key stuff".

Keep in mind this is the second contempt of court charge. they didn't say in this article what that contempt charge was about.

Had this guy simply said, I don't remember it would be a different story. See, if the judge says give it up and you say, "I don't remember", that's one thing and there is no way they can prove you didn't forget as long as you haven't done something to make your claim appear false, like maybe smirking at the judge as you say it, like your so fucking smart they'll never catch you. But if the Judge says give it up and you say "OK, it's ######" and that turns out wrong, it's an entirely different thing. Keep thinking like a smart ass and you can be in there with this guy.

And again, keep in mind, we don't know yet why the guy was charged with contempt the first time, it could have a significant bearing on the second charge.
 
Makes me glad that police are forbidden to force you to give them your phone password in Canada (though they can use other means top break into your phone) which falls under our right to remain silent (similar to the American counterpart).
Warrants are required to even try to search a phone here except under very specific and are closely monitored.
 
Hypergreatthing said:
Here's an example:
So you have bank account apps on your phone?
Did you sell something on ebay worth over 1000$?
Did you forget to claim it on your tax forms?
Ohh noes, tax evasion. Welp, now you can plea bargain about the child porn case with them. They've railroaded another sucker and they put another notch on their career.
Click to expand...

No, I don't trust electronic banking apps.

No, never used ebay. Never sold any piece of my own property before anywhere.

I get my taxes done by a professional.

I already listed above what I use my phone for. Calling/messaging friends and family, playing games, and browsing general websites. I guess I use my phone for a lot less than the average person but so what?
 
Cyraxx said:
It's not the "Anything can be used against you" part so much so that it doesn't have "can be used for you". The fact that that part isn't included is what indicates they are seeking only to find a guilty party - not an innocent party.
Click to expand...

That's because those words are from the Miranda Act and therefore have a specific purpose, to notify a person of their rights. It's not a statement of the Police Department's Mission or responsibility to the law. The statement is perfectly correct given it's legal context and there is nothing at all nefarious about it.
 
lcpiper said:
Which is part of why he was charged with contempt and sentenced to 180 days not withstanding whatever he may be sentenced to regarding the actual offenses. Those charges BTW are that he smacked on his kid, not child porn or any of that "throw away the key stuff".

Keep in mind this is the second contempt of court charge. they didn't say in this article what that contempt charge was about.

Had this guy simply said, I don't remember it would be a different story. See, if the judge says give it up and you say, "I don't remember", that's one thing and there is no way they can prove you didn't forget as long as you haven't done something to make your claim appear false, like maybe smirking at the judge as you say it, like your so fucking smart they'll never catch you. But if the Judge says give it up and you say "OK, it's ######" and that turns out wrong, it's an entirely different thing. Keep thinking like a smart ass and you can be in there with this guy.

And again, keep in mind, we don't know yet why the guy was charged with contempt the first time, it could have a significant bearing on the second charge.
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Yea there is a big difference between "i don't remember" and the find out he made 10 phonecalls and a 100 messages the day of the arrest. None of us were in the courtroom so we can only speculated based on what someone else speculated and reported.

Under pressure I probably wouldn't remember mine because I only input it at boot up which doesn't happen often. But I certainly wouldn't LOL at the judge when I forget .
 
SirMaster said:
No, I don't trust electronic banking apps.

No, never used ebay. Never sold any piece of my own property before anywhere.

I get my taxes done by a professional.

I already listed above what I use my phone for. Calling/messaging friends and family, playing games, and browsing general websites. I guess I use my phone for a lot less than the average person but so what?
Click to expand...
That was an example, not subject to fit your life.
 
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