Elon Musk’s Kid-Submarine Was “A PR Stunt,” Thailand Cave Rescue Diver Says

SnowBeast

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
1,312
Yeah because the guy who is making us getting back into space exploration and alternative energy vehicles needs "PR"? Anybody who thinks that after seeing interview after interview with Elon Mush is a fool period. It's like the fools living in U.S.A that constantly bash Microsoft and specially Apple every time they get chance. Two of he oldest tech companies that made a lot of what we have possible get bashed on by these type of people, yet they are the most copied companies in history, specially Apple who won a 4 Billion dollar patent lawsuit against Samsung.
 

auntjemima

[H]ard DCOTM x2
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Messages
11,146
He slept at his factory because he was wrong, like usual, about the model 3 production schedule that he touted to the world, and more importantly his investors.

Musk needs as much good PR as he can get given how (not) well Tesla is doing.

Can you prove where he was asked to make a shitty sub that in reality would not of worked.

This mentality blows my mind. He's a random guy that has created an automotive company. One that has the most desirable electric vehicles on the market.

Making inroads into the auto market takes fucking balls, even more so to do it in a new field.

That said, I feel he was a bit late to this party. They were already getting kids out, slowly, but it was coming around. Too late to try a bunch of shit at that point.
 

auntjemima

[H]ard DCOTM x2
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Messages
11,146
Someone offers to help & you spit in his fucking face? This guy is a first class douche!

Two ways to look at it..

1) guy is a douche

2) Guy is down there trying to save children while also trying to stay alive. In the mean time he has some billionaire down there with an idea that can't possibly work and getting in the way of real work.

Take your pick.
 

IndyColtsFan

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
496
Wait, didn’t Musk claim that they “worked closely” with the Thai rescue team in determining sizing for the sub? So if that’s the case, why is one of the lead divers saying the thing wouldn’t have even made it 50 meters in?
 

Rob94hawk

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 20, 2002
Messages
2,222
Two ways to look at it..

1) guy is a douche

2) Guy is down there trying to save children while also trying to stay alive. In the mean time he has some billionaire down there with an idea that can't possibly work and getting in the way of real work.

Take your pick.

It may not work in that particular situation but at least someone gave a shit enough to build something that maybe can be designed to work for another situation. People are so fucking miserable & ungrateful nowadays that no one will step up to help. Fucktards like this will discourage Good Samaritans. And that will be a real tragedy.
 

auntjemima

[H]ard DCOTM x2
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Messages
11,146
Wait, didn’t Musk claim that they “worked closely” with the Thai rescue team in determining sizing for the sub? So if that’s the case, why is one of the lead divers saying the thing wouldn’t have even made it 50 meters in?

British diver is quoted, so maybe he did work with the Thai team.
 

StoleMyOwnCar

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 30, 2013
Messages
2,380
It may not work in that particular situation but at least someone gave a shit enough to build something that maybe can be designed to work for another situation. People are so fucking miserable & ungrateful nowadays that no one will step up to help. Fucktards like this will discourage Good Samaritans. And that will be a real tragedy.

But the fact of the matter is, we don't necessarily know what went on down there. For all we know there could have been some silly situation where the sub (or the idea of using it) kept getting in the way of a capable rescuer, who just desperately wanted to provide the aid that he knew he could provide. He sounded very frustrated and tired.

Anyway, wanting to help is one thing, executing it poorly and assuming it's the best, while getting in the way of more optimal ideas... that's just hubris. Sometimes you have to realize that your help is simply in the way. And inability to accept that is, again, hubris. Well not saying this is what happened. The diver could just be a jerk, but I want to give him the benefit of a doubt. No one that goes out of their way to save people can be that bad on the inside.
 

Rob94hawk

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 20, 2002
Messages
2,222
Yeah, what a douche. It's not like he risked his own life for a bunch of strangers or anything.

You're missing the point. Elon didn't have to do anything to help but he did and he gets bashed for it? It's disrespectful IMO. Just fucking say thank you for your effort and move on. Those kids were gonna suffocate.
 
Last edited:

Rob94hawk

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 20, 2002
Messages
2,222
But the fact of the matter is, we don't necessarily know what went on down there. For all we know there could have been some silly situation where the sub (or the idea of using it) kept getting in the way of a capable rescuer, who just desperately wanted to provide the aid that he knew he could provide. He sounded very frustrated and tired.

Anyway, wanting to help is one thing, executing it poorly and assuming it's the best, while getting in the way of more optimal ideas... that's just hubris. Sometimes you have to realize that your help is simply in the way. And inability to accept that is, again, hubris. Well not saying this is what happened. The diver could just be a jerk, but I want to give him the benefit of a doubt. No one that goes out of their way to save people can be that bad on the inside.

Read my above quote.
 

emphy

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 31, 2016
Messages
358
It may not work in that particular situation but at least someone gave a shit enough to build something that maybe can be designed to work for another situation. People are so fucking miserable & ungrateful nowadays that no one will step up to help. Fucktards like this will discourage Good Samaritans. And that will be a real tragedy.

In normal situations it's already quite annoying when other people butt in, I can only imagine how much worse it could be in a rescue situation.

However well-meaning, sometimes (well, almost always) it is better to just get out of the way of the experts and let them handle the emergency.
 

StoleMyOwnCar

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 30, 2013
Messages
2,380
In normal situations it's already quite annoying when other people butt in, I can only imagine how much worse it could be in a rescue situation.

However well-meaning, sometimes (well, almost always) it is better to just get out of the way of the experts and let them handle the emergency.

What I meant to say in so many fewer words.
 

Teenk9

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 22, 2011
Messages
1,032
You're missing the point. Elon didn't have to do anything to help but he did and he gets bashed for it? It's disrespectful IMO. Just fucking say thank you for your effort and move on. Those kids were gonna suffocate.

No, you need perspective. The guy literally was in the most stressful situation you could only imagine being in and he had been there from hour one for people he doesn't know. You keep saying Elon didn't have to help, well guess what, this guy didn't either but there he was. Yet to you he's the douche.
 

Rob94hawk

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 20, 2002
Messages
2,222
No, you need perspective. The guy literally was in the most stressful situation you could only imagine being in and he had been there from hour one for people he doesn't know. You keep saying Elon didn't have to help, well guess what, this guy didn't either but there he was. Yet to you he's the douche.

I have perspective. And I'm also an licensed medical professional & emergency responder. If a Good Samaritan arrives at an accident before I do and comforts a victim or puts pressure on a open wound, do I insult them because they are not 'experts?' I've been asked by 'non experts' in emergency situations if they could be of any further assistants and my response would always be polite & thankful! And I've been in many emergency situations. So yeah, the diver is a fucking disrespectful douche.
 

Teenk9

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 22, 2011
Messages
1,032
I have perspective. And I'm also an licensed medical professional & emergency responder. If a Good Samaritan arrives at an accident before I do and comforts a victim or puts pressure on a open wound, do I insult them because they are not 'experts?' I've been asked by 'non experts' in emergency situations if they could be of any further assistants and my response would always be polite & thankful! And I've been in many emergency situations. So yeah, the diver is a fucking disrespectful douche.

LOL, here we go. Well guess what, I'm Batman!
 
D

Deleted member 204526

Guest
I have perspective. And I'm also an licensed medical professional & emergency responder. If a Good Samaritan arrives at an accident before I do and comforts a victim or puts pressure on a open wound, do I insult them because they are not 'experts?' I've been asked by 'non experts' in emergency situations if they could be of any further assistants and my response would always be polite & thankful! And I've been in many emergency situations. So yeah, the diver is a fucking disrespectful douche.
You're comparing Musk arriving with a frickin' submarine at a controlled emergency situation with a road accident? Why did Musk need to be there in person anyway?
 

Derangel

Fully [H]
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
20,092
I can understand musk musk wanting to offer a solution to this especially after the 4 month estimate.

i was quite puzzled on why they were projecting so long .

then they lost a thai navy seal and i thought maybe it is really complicated after all.

look forward to more details on what made it so difficult and im sure the crash course in cave diving for the kids and the coach will be highly interesting as well .

from what i have gathered thus far that team was extremely fortunate that every thing worked out . as they were dangerously close to being lost forever.

The projection was made due to weather and the condition of the kids. When the group was first found there was no way to get the kids out. Both due to the danger of the swim and their weakened condition. If rain had started to come down heavily during the rescue attempt they would have likely had to call it off and wait either for a backup plan to be viable or for the rainy season to end. They were lucky enough to have weather conditions and equipment that allowed them to get everyone out safely when they did.
 

Rob94hawk

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 20, 2002
Messages
2,222
You're comparing Musk arriving with a frickin' submarine at a controlled emergency situation with a road accident? Why did Musk need to be there in person anyway?

You just explained the situation with your own quote: 'emergency situation' & 'road accident.' Ever trache a person with an impaled jaw from an airbag struggling to breath? That's what we can an 'emergency' or 'pretty much can fucking die if you don't create an airway.' She didn't have two weeks like the kids in the cave had.

And I don't know why he was there. Maybe people that just want to help & have potentially life saving ideas should just stay the fuck home & watch the postmortem report on TV the next day.
 
Last edited:

ChosenUno

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
1,315
Well, there's always going to be another trapped football team somewhere in the world that's more accessible for Musk's submarine.

Seriously, designing and prototyping an absolute piece of junk that wouldn't have helped is not far from a PR stunt. He should've known better than prototyping a solution without knowing what the problems are.

It's either stupidity or hubris, take your pick.
 

nysmo

Gawd
Joined
Jan 7, 2016
Messages
948
if it's so obvious that this sub is totally incompatible with the cave then how could this be a publicity stunt? What kind of publicity would one hope to achieve by making a fool of themselves? I think the most logical answer is that they didnt know the sub would be such a failure and were trying to help
 

IndyColtsFan

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
496
British diver is quoted, so maybe he did work with the Thai team.

When I say “Thai rescue team,” I am using it to represent the entire rescue team, of which the British were members. I am assuming any info relayed to Musk would’ve come from information gathered from all divers, including the Brits.

Nevertheless, the Elon worship in this thread is almost as bad as the last thread. This British guy might be an ass, but I believe him when he says the sub wouldn’t have worked - many of us said this the last time and were eviscerated by Musk zealots. Him arriving onsite in the midst of the rescue efforts was nothing more than a distraction and yes, a PR stunt. The real experts were working hard to rescue these kids and Musk would’ve been better served offering money, supplies, etc.
 

Teenk9

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 22, 2011
Messages
1,032
What a salty old prick. I'm no Musk fan, but at least he tried. Fuck this guy.

So you're saying a person that risked his life since the very beginning, and was an actual hero that got some of those trapped kids out, you're saying he didn't try? That he should just shut his mouth because, you know, Musk showed up at the scene two weeks later?

Seriously, the lack of perspective of some posters here baffles the mind.
 

Dayaks

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 22, 2012
Messages
9,160
if it's so obvious that this sub is totally incompatible with the cave then how could this be a publicity stunt? What kind of publicity would one hope to achieve by making a fool of themselves? I think the most logical answer is that they didnt know the sub would be such a failure and were trying to help

Doesn’t take a genius if you’ve been following the rescue. Strong currents + solid objects (sub) + tight spaces = blocked passed = everyone dead on the other side. Ever been in a strong current? You don’t win... I’ve seen boats wrapped around rocks like paper.
 

Kalabalana

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
1,313
Thailand did not want any outside help in managing their country, it would be an embarrassment for any Westerner to offer anything, and this is what happened.

Does this diver have any clue about Elon Musk and the rescue submarine? Probably not at all (not at all), but him and his friends can talk poorly about it, especially now that the operation is over and nobody (other than the initial diver) died.
If the operation was a failure, or couldn't move forward, they would need the outside help, and would hate to receive it.

Why is he going out of his way to say it was a PR stunt? Because he's Thai, he is prideful, and being able to speak on the topic is likely the most public attention he will ever receive. Good that he shits on the outsider, and reflects the pride and respect he feels for his home country.That is likely the culture he is surrounded in - remember, this is Thailand, and he is a diver.
 

MrTryfe

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 3, 2012
Messages
435
Wonder if massive water pumps could have put a dent in that water

This was unfeasible. It was one of the first options on the table, and was quickly shuttered due to the monsoon. They just weren't going to be able to pump the water out in a timely manner.
 
Last edited:

MrTryfe

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 3, 2012
Messages
435
The number one thing that makes this reek of a PR stunt is the social media aspect of it all. There really was no need for Elon Musk to go on Twitter and make it known to the world that he was aware of the situation, and was getting a team to work on a solution. He even set up a timeline as to how the process would take place.

All of this could've been done in the background, without all the Twitter handwringing. In fact, that might have been the better PR move, if we want to be even more cynical.

I'm a fan of some things that Musk does, but it's abundantly clear that he's managed to build up a cult of personality. Some of the responses I've seen in this thread and on the internet in general are bordering on absurd.
 

IndyColtsFan

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Messages
496
Thailand did not want any outside help in managing their country, it would be an embarrassment for any Westerner to offer anything, and this is what happened.

Does this diver have any clue about Elon Musk and the rescue submarine? Probably not at all (not at all), but him and his friends can talk poorly about it, especially now that the operation is over and nobody (other than the initial diver) died.
If the operation was a failure, or couldn't move forward, they would need the outside help, and would hate to receive it.

Why is he going out of his way to say it was a PR stunt? Because he's Thai, he is prideful, and being able to speak on the topic is likely the most public attention he will ever receive. Good that he shits on the outsider, and reflects the pride and respect he feels for his home country.That is likely the culture he is surrounded in - remember, this is Thailand, and he is a diver.

I think the diver in question was British, not Thai.
 

Gorankar

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 19, 2000
Messages
11,017
He is a dick, a heroic dick, but a dick all the same. I doubt his nation of origin really changes that.
 
Joined
May 5, 2016
Messages
682
So you're saying a person that risked his life since the very beginning, and was an actual hero that got some of those trapped kids out, you're saying he didn't try? That he should just shut his mouth because, you know, Musk showed up at the scene two weeks later?

Seriously, the lack of perspective of some posters here baffles the mind.

Yeah, that's what I said. Exactly. Remain baffled.
 

ShadowXT

n00b
Joined
May 23, 2017
Messages
12
Elon is the attention whore in HS who wants to always be in front of the camera. People already told him not to send that death trap to Thailand, but he didn't listen. He would have been better off sending the money he used for shipment and his airplane ticket to support the efforts.

Every problem has an optimal solution and that submarine death trap was not the right tool for the job. Most people would have claustrophobia in a tube that small and panic. Imagine having to stay inside for four hours during any rescue? The navy SEALs had sedate the kids in order to keep them from panicking in the conditions they were in. For an experienced diver, doing cave dives with zero visibility is bad enough. If the person panicked, it would cause death if they dislodged their masks. Some of the areas were insanely tight even without the scuba gears. That tube would have never worked in these conditions.

I'm glad the diver called out Elon for his publicity stunt. Now that Elon posted this crap, it shows what type of person he is inside. The guy is like a slimy salesman. He makes a pitch and the real engineers have to put up with his crappy ideas. The pointy hair boss and the salesman in Dilbert cartoon is a caricature of Elon Musk.
 

EODetroit

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
1,485
I recognize this guy's name, he mapped out the cave the kids got stuck in years ago and happens to live nearby, was one of the first on the scene to evaluate the situation and the Thailand junta listened to him when he told them to ask for outside help.

The thing is, this billionaire Musk responded to the ask for help. So it wouldn't work, Musk didn't know if it would help or not, but instead of assuming he couldn't help, he tried anyways. Its not like Musk is sending anyone an invoice. He even went to see why it wouldn't work so perhaps he could improve the design. Musk is an inventor, not a diving expert. All diving gear was at some point invented by someone like Elon Musk. This guy in the interview is both a hero and an ungrateful jerk, simultaneously. Musk never tried to take charge, never got in the way or made anything harder. What he should have said was "I'm glad he tried, its unfortunate that it could never work, but he did more than all the other billionaires on the planet combined, so we thank him for trying".

Someone basically re-phrased what I wrote above, because they're a journalist and I'm just some guy on the internet: https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-ful...-involvement-with-the-Thai-cave-rescue-effort
 
Top