Elon Musk's Hyperloop Alpha Design

nutzo

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 15, 2004
Messages
7,380
Will never be built (at least not in the US) unless the unions and politicians can find away to pocket alot of cash form the project. By the time the environmentalist and NIMBY's finish suing for thier cut, the cost will go up by 10x.
 

AdmiralTiger

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 20, 2004
Messages
75
Will never be built (at least not in the US) unless the unions and politicians can find away to pocket alot of cash form the project. By the time the environmentalist and NIMBY's finish suing for thier cut, the cost will go up by 10x.

Not sure about the environmentalists? Wouldn't they be all about saving energy resources and reducing pollution? Doesn't THIS do pretty much the job while saving time on travel? Sure, we would have to make a path for this, but it's pretty miniscule compared to how many roads there are in America. I don't blame the NIMBY's, it's not going to win any beauty awards, that's for sure. However, the innovation is there.
 

sfsuphysics

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
15,520
Having read through the technical aspects of it, I skipped over the route planning bit. I've come to the following conclusions

1a: It starts reading like he's trying to bash the living shit out of the California High Speed Rail project (which admittedly so deserves it)... but almost seems like he (or got his engineers he's paying) to come up with this plan as a technical reason as to how to bash said CHSR project.
1b: Another part of me believes he might think he could have a chance to divert all that funding to his company to build this thing.

2: The whole part hinges on a motor (compressor) that can suck air out of the front of it faster than it accumulates so that it can push it behind it/around it and use it as a cushion. I would be like to see if it's physically feasible to do (not just mathematics on a piece of paper) without it sounding like you're 10 feet from the engine on an airplane.

3: Nutzo's comment above on cost is fairly spot on, the high speed rail project wasn't supposed to cost nearly $70B either, however....

4: While I didn't see it written out, he did show something that I liked, which is passenger + vehicle hyperloop. All of the "costs of travel" he mentions are inaccurate for everything except the car transport. Simply because the cost of said tickets get you to a station. Unless you're planning on staying at that station for the sequel of The Terminal movie there's also a cost associated with getting you to your destination, which if you take local mass transit can be cheap, or if you have to rent a car to then drive around could more than double the cost of all other forms of transportation. The cost is not so dirt cheap that many people will use this as a form of commuting, and unless it stops near one of your destinations you're going to stay for a while on vacation (i.e. your hotel, Disneyland, whatever) you'll have substantial other costs associated with your transport. Now if you could bring your car with you that would be all levels of awesome... however I can't imagine it's as energy efficient as he makes it out to be.

5: I'd like to see an actual cost run down, and have him take care of all costs associated with it. Then he can keep all profits, but most importantly he assumes all risks and cost overruns when all of a sudden China withholds rare-earth metals needed for the linear accelerators of 700+ miles of tube and the price per mile skyrockets.
 

qbert95

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 3, 2004
Messages
278
Projects like this have zero chance of actually happening because every foot will be hit with eminent domain lawsuits filed by ambulance chasers who will knock on every single home owners doors along the way with promises of jackpots.
 

Jagger100

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
7,710
. The linear electric motor is needed for as little as ~1% of the tube length, so is not particularly costly
So a 100 mile stretch would have one solid mile of magnets large enough around to push a car.

Yeah... cheap...
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
6,871
So...this guy who is pretty much someone no one knows is publishing a thing that no one will be able to build in order to make his name more public so he can then be famous when he announces something that can be made. I'm thinking he already knows what that more realistic thing is and is just not talking about it yet so that he's more like a household name (which is still dumb since his name is probably the stupidest name a parent could give to their child...I think of skunks and nasty man armpits when I read it).
 

Jagger100

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
7,710
2: The whole part hinges on a motor (compressor) that can suck air out of the front of it faster than it accumulates so that it can push it behind it/around it and use it as a cushion. I would be like to see if it's physically feasible to do (not just mathematics on a piece of paper) without it sounding like you're 10 feet from the engine on an airplane.
I have a few questions on that too. The cars wouldn't look anything like the artist depiction. They would be almost hollow tubes themselves with an intake nozzle covering all of the front end and a fan right there. Not even sure if the air would be that well behaved since it would be a shockfront. You have air piling up in the front faster than the speed of sound and you're trying to vacuum pump it behind you. I'm not sure you can vacuum pump air faster than the speed of sound.
 

Jagger100

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
7,710
I stand corrected a bit. it is a giant nozzle up front with a fan for the most part. But it won't be that stylish. And not sure they could pump it down if they ever did get a build up.
 

Kendrak

[H]ard|DCer of the Year 2009
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
21,142
So...this guy who is pretty much someone no one knows is publishing a thing that no one will be able to build in order to make his name more public so he can then be famous when he announces something that can be made.

The guy is famous. He is the CEO of Tesla Motors and the CEO and Chief Designer of Space X. He is also the Chairman of SolarCity. The guy knows his stuff.

Maybe you should Google him :rolleyes:
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
6,871
The guy is famous. He is the CEO of Tesla Motors and the CEO and Chief Designer of Space X. He is also the Chairman of SolarCity. The guy knows his stuff.

Maybe you should Google him :rolleyes:

I've never heard of any of that stuff aside from the Tesla thing which are those electric cars that can't go as far as a normal car and cost a lot of money for no reason. Anyhow, if he's trying to build a tube like this, he's pretty much out of touch with reality like that guy that made the huge airplane that barely flew and then became famous for failing Howard the Duck or something...or that guy who keeps making lame 3D shooters like Doom who's wasting his time with awful Bethesda games.
 

braamer

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 28, 2004
Messages
1,649
The guy is famous. He is the CEO of Tesla Motors and the CEO and Chief Designer of Space X. He is also the Chairman of SolarCity. The guy knows his stuff.

Maybe you should Google him :rolleyes:

Don't forget co-founding Paypal.
 

metril

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
414
It's not that the hyperloop is amazing on its own. It's the fact that Elon Musk is touting it as an open source project. He is famous and he knows it. And, when he talks, a lot of people listen. And he knows it. So, what better way to get a ton of brainiacs (all around the world) involved? Make it OPEN SOURCE!
 

Tiporaro

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
1,151
I've never heard of any of that stuff aside from the Tesla thing which are those electric cars that can't go as far as a normal car and cost a lot of money for no reason. Anyhow, if he's trying to build a tube like this, he's pretty much out of touch with reality like that guy that made the huge airplane that barely flew and then became famous for failing Howard the Duck or something...or that guy who keeps making lame 3D shooters like Doom who's wasting his time with awful Bethesda games.

Can't tell if serious...
 

iakona

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
445
Lol, Elon musk in the next 20 years will be more important than Steve Jobs and possibly Bill gates in terms of an innovator with some balls.
 

8du8

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
298
I've never heard of any of that stuff aside from the Tesla thing which are those electric cars that can't go as far as a normal car and cost a lot of money for no reason. Anyhow, if he's trying to build a tube like this, he's pretty much out of touch with reality like that guy that made the huge airplane that barely flew and then became famous for failing Howard the Duck or something...or that guy who keeps making lame 3D shooters like Doom who's wasting his time with awful Bethesda games.

You must be new to the internet or something. Elon Musk has made a pretty big name for himself and is quite the innovator as well as serving inspiration for Robert Downy Jr's character in the Iron Man movies.

Yeah, this is totally like some game making lame 3d shooters, I'm sure he couldn't build rockets that cost a fraction of traditional rockets and send them into space either :rolleyes:
 

8du8

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
298
Oh and as far as his "electric cars that cant go as far as normal car and cost a lot of money for no reason" go take a look at Tesla Motors stock and see how its been doing the last six months or so.
 

MRAB54

Gawd
Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Messages
853
So they want to launch humans one after the next at 300 mph in a tube? No thanks.

I can't imagine there could be many stops on a system like that, not as many as a train.. Think about how many people there are in CA, if you dump them all off a a few stations, they still have to be able to get a cab or other transportation to where they need to go.
 

Tweak42

Gawd
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
609
Granted the idea hasn't been even tested before in a short working model, at the least Elon Musk is trying to solve a problem using a different approach. I would like to see some sort of working scale experimental around his concept before even envisioning a full scale deployment.
 

JoeUser

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
3,919
Can't tell if serious...

You must be new to the internet or something. Elon Musk has made a pretty big name for himself and is quite the innovator as well as serving inspiration for Robert Downy Jr's character in the Iron Man movies.

Yeah, this is totally like some game making lame 3d shooters, I'm sure he couldn't build rockets that cost a fraction of traditional rockets and send them into space either :rolleyes:

Super troll. Signed up just to troll. Ignore him. Add to block list. Works for me so far.
 

Concillian

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 14, 2005
Messages
270
r, however....

4: While I didn't see it written out, he did show something that I liked, which is passenger + vehicle hyperloop. All of the "costs of travel" he mentions are inaccurate for everything except the car transport. Simply because the cost of said tickets get you to a station. Unless you're planning on staying at that station for the sequel of The Terminal movie there's also a cost associated with getting you to your destination, which if you take local mass transit can be cheap, or if you have to rent a car to then drive around could more than double the cost of all other forms of transportation. The cost is not so dirt cheap that many people will use this as a form of commuting, and unless it stops near one of your destinations you're going to stay for a while on vacation (i.e. your hotel, Disneyland, whatever) you'll have substantial other costs associated with your transport. Now if you could bring your car with you that would be all levels of awesome... however I can't imagine it's as energy efficient as he makes it out to be.

Pretty much this. If this could be done for vehicle transport, the gasoline cost for driving from SF to LA is close to $80 (depending on MPG). Around double that per vehicle should be an easy sell.

I like to visit my parents in San Diego so my kids can see their grandparents, but three plane tickets is expensive and very limiting in what you can bring, plus coordinating both ends and the extra time for public transportation still takes nearly the whole day even if it's a 1 hour flight. flying with kids is such a hassle (and expensive) and driving 8 hours is no picnic either. If I could cut a few hours off that and it's less than the cost of three airline tickets, I'd do it two or three times a year.
 
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,542
Shithead with money runs mouth, invents the invented and takes it to new heights of impracticality. News covers it, declares him a genius..... next thing, Elon Musk suggests using Gatorade to water crops, cause ELECTROLYTES!!! :eek::cool::rolleyes:
 

braamer

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 28, 2004
Messages
1,649
Shithead with money runs mouth, invents the invented and takes it to new heights of impracticality. News covers it, declares him a genius..... next thing, Elon Musk suggests using Gatorade to water crops, cause ELECTROLYTES!!! :eek::cool::rolleyes:

The Tesla Model S is a VERY impressive automobile, period. And that it is completely electric is just an added bonus. 200+ mile range for the base model, ~265 miles for the top level model. They've developed a method to drop out the battery in the car for a fully charged battery in less time than it takes to refuel a gasoline vehicle.

SpaceX is a brilliant idea.

Elon Musk is a great inventor and entrepreneur.
 

sfsuphysics

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
15,520
Pretty much this. If this could be done for vehicle transport, the gasoline cost for driving from SF to LA is close to $80 (depending on MPG). Around double that per vehicle should be an easy sell.
Funny thing, I'm not Elon Musk but I have for years imagined this is the way freeways should be in the future, instead of cars driving on them they should have cars transported on some railway type system that's controlled by humans, get you from point A to point B then depart the exit with your car and finish up your drive home. It'd be an interesting stop gap between making auto-driven cars as too many people got a wild hair up their ass about letting a computer drive for them.

Remove the human element and watch traffic issues all but disappear.
 

Zomoa

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
242
The Tesla Model S is a VERY impressive automobile, period. And that it is completely electric is just an added bonus. 200+ mile range for the base model, ~265 miles for the top level model. They've developed a method to drop out the battery in the car for a fully charged battery in less time than it takes to refuel a gasoline vehicle.

SpaceX is a brilliant idea.

Elon Musk is a great inventor and entrepreneur.

Seriously. The dude is making good use of his billions instead of just sitting on them like 99% of the other people with that kind of money.

Any hatred of the man i've seen is generally spouted from an ignorant crowd that has no idea the positive impact Elon is having on our times.
 

Aluisious

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
2,189
Seriously. The dude is making good use of his billions instead of just sitting on them like 99% of the other people with that kind of money.

Any hatred of the man i've seen is generally spouted from an ignorant crowd that has no idea the positive impact Elon is having on our times.

That's fine, but Hyperloop is still the biggest pile of bullshit I've heard in a while.

20 bucks to get in a 400 mile long metal tube that is kept at a partial vacuum...yeah, sure fucking thing. It costs almost that to take a train at 40mph from Millbrae to San Francisco and back.
 

sfsuphysics

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
15,520
That's fine, but Hyperloop is still the biggest pile of bullshit I've heard in a while.

20 bucks to get in a 400 mile long metal tube that is kept at a partial vacuum...yeah, sure fucking thing. It costs almost that to take a train at 40mph from Millbrae to San Francisco and back.

10 bucks from Millbrae to SF and back.

Also note the cost to move people is also reflected in the machinery that moves them which weighs many times they do so much like cars much of the fuel required to move people is actually used to move the mass of the vehicle they are riding in.
 

Godmachine

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
10,472
Seriously. The dude is making good use of his billions instead of just sitting on them like 99% of the other people with that kind of money.

Any hatred of the man i've seen is generally spouted from an ignorant crowd that has no idea the positive impact Elon is having on our times.

I'm still skeptical of the Tesla car model but I do think he's made some impressive strides compared to when Tesla cars first came out , which were garbage.

Say what you want about the man but .. its guys like him who are willing to put their money where there mouth is that will lead to the future of technology.

There are tons of billionaires just siting on their vast fortunes who would rather buy useless junk that does little to even satisfy their own interests. The Hyperloop may never get built but its incredibly impressive and actually realistic. Its far more worth our effort than some horribly dragged down $60+ Billion dollar bullet train project that will never get built.
 

CreepyUncleGoogle

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
6,871
Seriously. The dude is making good use of his billions instead of just sitting on them like 99% of the other people with that kind of money.

Any hatred of the man i've seen is generally spouted from an ignorant crowd that has no idea the positive impact Elon is having on our times.

For every person that does something silly, there's a group of people willing to follow them. Looong before we were born (like 20 years or so before) there was this guy in Texas that told everyone he was a god or something and enough people believed in him that they went into a school and started shooting at other people. I think it ended in the school burning down and then a bunch of other people said it was a sign of the end of the world. Then, also before we were born there was a comet coming by and a bunch of people got duped into thinking there was a spaceship inside it and killed themselves so they could get on the spaceship.

The thing is that ignorance happens among both the worshipper and the skeptic. In fact, the worshipper kills him or herself a lot more often when their in-the-flesh deity gets them to do something kinda dumb.
 

Tawnos

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Messages
3,808
That's fine, but Hyperloop is still the biggest pile of bullshit I've heard in a while.

20 bucks to get in a 400 mile long metal tube that is kept at a partial vacuum...yeah, sure fucking thing. It costs almost that to take a train at 40mph from Millbrae to San Francisco and back.

20 bucks is the amount estimated to pay for construction plus interest over 20 years. It's not the estimated ticket cost. Can nobody read?

"Amortizing this capital cost over 20 years and adding daily operational costs gives a total of about $20 USD (in current year dollars) plus operating costs per one-way ticket on the passenger Hyperloop."
 

Aluisious

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
2,189
Yes, I can read. I didn't forget profit, that wasn't the point. There's no fucking way capital + operating would be 20 bucks.
 

Tawnos

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Messages
3,808
Yes, I can read. I didn't forget profit, that wasn't the point. There's no fucking way capital + operating would be 20 bucks.

Capital plus operating cost of the tube is laid out in the preliminary design document. That sentence makes no mention of profit. It talks about capital plus daily operating costs of the tube itself. With the proposed solar panels along the top, it isn't surprising to end up with the numbers around $20/ticket given the estimates they used (which you have mocked, but not actually worked to disprove).

And you obviously misread it, because you said "20 bucks to get in", ignoring that the per-ticket costs are stated to be more than 20 bucks. It would include things like staffing the stations, cleaning the capsules, and other such per-passenger costs.

Profit is added on top of this number. The "cost to get in" would probably be 2-4x the minimum operating expense (that is, tube sitting static and maintaining its vacuum, which is what they describe).
 

Aluisious

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
2,189
You obviously underestimate how much I don't give a shit about your cheerleading of a literal pipe dream.
 

Tawnos

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Messages
3,808
You obviously underestimate how much I don't give a shit about your cheerleading of a literal pipe dream.

Not cheerleading, just saying that your assumptions aren't matched by the claims. I think there are significant issues that will come up with NIMBYs or even MBIMBYs (must be in my back yard) people in CA who oppose or make demands. This seems engineering feasible, but not politically.

And for someone who doesn't care, why take the time to reply?
 
Top