Elon Musk’s defamation trial over ‘pedo guy’ tweet kicks off in Los Angeles

Meeho

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“I f***ing hope he sues me.”
Elon Musk, in an email to Buzzfeed

Famous "last" words?

And that was a publicity stunt.
 

Jim Kim

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Did they even use his tube for the rescue?
Elon should lay off that sticky icky jazz cabbage.
 

Sycraft

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Yeah Im sure he’s really worried ;)
He probably should be a bit worried. The problem is that in California, he committed defamation per se. So with normal defamation, you have to prove actual harm. Just because someone said something defamatory that they knew or should have known was untrue doesn't win you the case unless they can prove harm, and then damages are going to be based off that harm. So no big payout likely, whatever it would be would be pennies to Musk since it didn't hurt this guy's career at all..

Not the case with defamation per se though. Those are statements that the law considers so innately harmful that damages don't have to be proven, they are legally presumed. Accusing someone of being a pedophile falls in to that category. So this means that the guy doesn't have to prove any harm, just that Musk said it, which is easy to do. Musk's only defense is then to prove what he said was true. If he can't the jury can slap him with a bigass judgement.

So this may add up to an amount that would be real money, even to a guy like Musk. Doesn't mean it will, of course, but if I were him, I'd be worrying a bit.
 

IndyColtsFan

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Anyone remember pedo guy?

“British diver Vernon Unsworth sued Musk for defamation in a spat over efforts to rescue a Thai soccer team from a cave in 2018”

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/elon-musks-defamation-trial-over-pedo-guy-tweet-kicks-off-in-la-2019-12-03
What I do remember is an unfortunate number of Musk defenders, including a few who insisted Musk "had something" on this guy and that's why he tweeted that. I won't do a search and remind these people who they were (I'm sure they know), but I will point out that Musk stated this:

Musk contends that Unsworth criticized him first, and he was responding with similarly heated rhetoric and was not making a literal accusation of pedophilia.
And here's more twisting in the wind:

Elon Musk on the Stand: ‘Pedo Guy’ Doesn't Mean ‘Pedophile’
So in other words, Musk was shooting his mouth off and had zip, zero, NADA on this guy.


Wasn't the guy an actual pedo?
Sure he was - I mean, this happened like 18 months ago and the guy is still walking around free without being arrested and no proof I've seen posted. Please post proof, as I'd be interested. He had better call Perry Mason to defend himself! :facepalm: Of course, with the money Musk is going to be shelling out, he can afford an entire team of crack celebrity lawyers.
 
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aokman

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I don't see the issue really, Elon did what he could at the time with what he knows throwing engineering and resources at the problem and that is what his team came up with. Pedo guy shot his mouth off which was a bit of a spit in the face to Elon and he reacted like we all would having put the effort in.

Everyone should just let shit go and move on, he dives, Elon is taking us to Mars.

at the end of the day Elon wont even feel it / give a f.......
 

Master_shake_

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What I do remember is an unfortunate number of Musk defenders, including a few who insisted Musk "had something" on this guy and that's why he tweeted that. I won't do a search and remind these people who they were (I'm sure they know), but I will point out that Musk stated this:



And here's more twisting in the wind:



So in other words, Musk was shooting his mouth off and had zip, zero, NADA on this guy.




Sure he was - I mean, this happened like 18 months ago and the guy is still walking around free without being arrested and no proof I've seen posted. Please post proof, as I'd be interested. He had better call Perry Mason to defend himself! :facepalm: Of course, with the money Musk is going to be shelling out, he can afford an entire team of crack celebrity lawyers.
did you try to short tesla stock or something?

this guy is out for a pay day.

people have ben called far worse on twitter but this guy was called something by a billionaire.

he felt dirtied lol no he felt broke.

and some ambulance chaser is trying to get him rich.
 

MaZa

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Why is this lawsuit a thing anyway? IIRC both of them were running their mouths insulting each other. The jury should have just fined both of them, said grow the hell up and kick both of them out of the court with icepick shoes.
 

IndyColtsFan

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did you try to short tesla stock or something?

this guy is out for a pay day.

people have ben called far worse on twitter but this guy was called something by a billionaire.

he felt dirtied lol no he felt broke.

and some ambulance chaser is trying to get him rich.
So to answer the question I posed to you - no, you have no proof he is a pedo. Got it - exactly as I suspected.

As to why this is a thing - it's disturbing how many Musk cheerleaders here actually thought Musk "knew something" about this guy when the rest of us said he was just shooting his mouth off, and you can likely extrapolate this to his fan base worldwide who took Elon's idiocy as gospel. Elon needs to be taken down a notch and he is making a complete fool of himself at this lawsuit, which is probably payment enough for Unsworth. And believe me, Musk doesn't care about the money either - losing this suit and the ego blow accompanying it IS what Musk cares about.

Why is this lawsuit a thing anyway? IIRC both of them were running their mouths insulting each other. The jury should have just fined both of them, said grow the hell up and kick both of them out of the court with icepick shoes.
Yeah, that isn't how any of this works.
 
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NickJames

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You seem just as excited to see him suffer as those who praise his childish antics. This is such a stupid case between 2 social idiots.
 

Master_shake_

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So to answer the question I posed to you - no, you have no proof he is a pedo. Got it - exactly as I suspected.

As to why this is a thing - it's disturbing how many Musk cheerleaders here actually thought Musk "knew something" about this guy when the rest of us said he was just shooting his mouth off, and you can likely extrapolate this to his fan base worldwide who took Elon's idiocy as gospel. Elon needs to be taken down a notch and he is making a complete fool of himself at this lawsuit, which is probably payment enough for Unsworth. And believe me, Musk doesn't care about the money either - losing this suit and the ego blow accompanying it IS what Musk cares about.



Yeah, that isn't how any of this works.
hey i asked a question.

you took my question as a statement of fact.

reach much?
 

MaZa

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So to answer the question I posed to you - no, you have no proof he is a pedo. Got it - exactly as I suspected.

As to why this is a thing - it's disturbing how many Musk cheerleaders here actually thought Musk "knew something" about this guy when the rest of us said he was just shooting his mouth off, and you can likely extrapolate this to his fan base worldwide who took Elon's idiocy as gospel. Elon needs to be taken down a notch and he is making a complete fool of himself at this lawsuit, which is probably payment enough for Unsworth. And believe me, Musk doesn't care about the money either - losing this suit and the ego blow accompanying it IS what Musk cares about.



Yeah, that isn't how any of this works.
I know. I was speaking more figuratively because of how ridiculous this situation is. The point still stands, when both are speaking shit at each other how do you determine who gets fined or not? Courtrooms should be filled by these cases after every friday night when things heat up in bar, verbal arguments happen on both sides and one manages to hurt the others feelz just a tiny little bit more than intended.
 

IndyColtsFan

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hey i asked a question.

you took my question as a statement of fact.

reach much?
Your "question" was: "Wasn't the guy an actual pedo?"

That sounds an awful lot like a loaded question and I'm sure you know that. The tone suggests you're pretty sure there is evidence Unsworth is a pedo or at least, you heard it from a reliable source. Where is the evidence?

EDIT: kirbyrj pointed out the truth. Musk was so desperate to save his ego that he hired a PI. L O L.
 

Master_shake_

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I read all the time, thank you very much. Your "question" was: "Wasn't the guy an actual pedo?"

That is a loaded question - you know it, I know it, and everyone else knows it. The tone suggests you're pretty sure there is evidence Unsworth is a pedo or at least, you heard it from a reliable source. Where is the evidence?
Loaded lol

No a loaded question is when did that guy stop being a pedo.

Look at the post above you my question was answered.

Stop trying to put words in my mouth
 

Revdarian

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Musk will pay up a settlement and that will be it.

Yes, Musk screwed up big time, anybody who thinks otherwise is either fanboying or have no recollection about what actually happened, there was no "both sides talked shit" going on at all.
 

kirbyrj

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Musk will pay up a settlement and that will be it.

Yes, Musk screwed up big time, anybody who thinks otherwise is either fanboying or have no recollection about what actually happened, there was no "both sides talked shit" going on at all.
I don't care for Musk at all, but I think the guy criticized the sub and Musk's lack of knowledge about the situation. As per usual, the "boots on the ground" know more about what's actually going on. Musk interpreted this as a personal shot and lashed out with the pedo guy comment. Pretty childish and costly in hindsight for Musk.
 

Revdarian

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It wasn't shit talking when they said that the proposed equipment wouldn't work, they had hands on experience and a problem in process is never the place to test new experimental ideas, Musk may have thought that it was a personal attack but the jump to pedo because he lived over there was huge and uncalled, the doubling and triple down just made it a easy pay day for the offended.
 

kirbyrj

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The true "cost" is in his reputation. There will always be people who follow blindly, but those on the fence are going to think twice about spending money with someone who can go off half-cocked any time he feels slighted.

Also, time away from his other interests (making money) can't help either. The last thing he wants is having to take two days and spend it in an L.A. courtroom.
 

Gorankar

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Musk does not have a good personal reputation to harm. It is not some unknown thing to anyone that has listened to him in the press. This does nothing really to alter his professional reputation, which is separate. "I don't care if you are a jerk as long as you are making me money" is a fairly common sentiment among investors.
The accusation of being pedo, is something that is difficult to wash off a person. When that accusation is put out there by someone that famous, millions of people are going to hear that accusation. Western culture treats that as one of it's highest crimes, and many ordinarily sane reasonable people tend to toss reason out the window when it comes to accusations of being a pedo. So, yeah, I can buy that the diver was legitimately harmed by Elon's statements.

How poorly Musk was treated when he offered assistance was pretty silly and dismissive, but I don't think it justifies calling someone a pedo. Then again 33 year old Thai women can sometimes look like they are 13, so maybe Musk saw a pic and made a stupid off the cuff statement. I don't know, it doesn't really matter. Elon prolly needs to just pay up, walk away, and learn a lesson or don't.
 

aokman

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He will pay up and move on, in the grand scheme Elon will change the world and should be supported, all the haters out there are just that pathetic insects.
 
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Krazy925

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Musk fans can’t ever admit he’s a dipshit.

If he hadn’t doubled and tripled down it would be shit talking. Elon tried to will into existence proof this man was a pedo.

Which half you guys seem to erroneously believe. Not surprising in the least around here though.
 

N4CR

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Lol everyone knows seedy old western men working with kids in thailand are pedos a vast majority of the time. Proving it 100% in this case is just a little more difficult.
 

IcePickFreak

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Lol everyone knows seedy old western men working with kids in thailand are pedos a vast majority of the time. Proving it 100% in this case is just a little more difficult.
By "working with kids" you mean aiding their rescue from a cave system he explored for years prior? Yeah, I bet he just went in there to cop a feel.:rolleyes:
 

Sycraft

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It wasn't shit talking when they said that the proposed equipment wouldn't work, they had hands on experience and a problem in process is never the place to test new experimental ideas, Musk may have thought that it was a personal attack but the jump to pedo because he lived over there was huge and uncalled, the doubling and triple down just made it a easy pay day for the offended.
No kidding. Everyone needs to watch what they say in public but when you are a CEO and extremely wealthy, that goes extra. What you say can hurt your reputation, but it can also be something that is legally actionable. Now for most people, no someone will probably not sue you for calling them a pedophile, unless it is done in such a way that causes actual harm to them. However if you are rich, well you just gave them a shot at some pretty easy money. As I said earlier: It is defamation per se, it is legally actionable so is it a surprise he's going for it, knowing that Musk has the money to pay out?

Lol everyone knows seedy old western men working with kids in thailand are pedos a vast majority of the time. Proving it 100% in this case is just a little more difficult.
Ya well regardless of truth of that statement that all westerners in Thailand are just there for sex (hint: it's not true) that doesn't matter to a court. "Everyone knows" is not an admissible statement. So since calling someone a pedophile is defamation per se in California, and since this was done in a public forum where it can't be claimed it wasn't said there are only two possible defenses:

1) Prove that indeed the guy is a pedophile. Even that might not work as really what Musk would have to prove is that he had knowledge at the time of making the statement that it was true. Regardless you'd need some real evidence not "everyone knows".

2) Prove that the statement was made in jest or hyperbole and is something that no reasonable person could take as serious and true. Things like the hilarious stuff John Oliver did in his song about Bob Murray. Here you "everyone knows" actually works against that, because if people are likely to believe such a thing can be true, then the defense that it was hyperbole isn't going to hold.
 

kirbyrj

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I've called people worse, shouldn't sue over it. Grow a sack and get over it.
You're also not the 23rd richest person in the world with 22 million twitter followers insulting people where 22 million people can see. That's 20 times more than the NY Times circulation. If you print that kind of unsubstantiated nonsense, you could be charged with libel. It actually makes perfect sense why he would have sued.
 
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You're also not the 23rd richest person in the world with 22 million twitter followers insulting people where 22 million people can see. That's 20 times more than the NY Times circulation. If you print that kind of unsubstantiated nonsense, you could be charged with libel. It actually makes perfect sense why he would have sued.
If Elon Musk was the NY Times then the guy should sue but Musk was tweeting as a private citizen douche. Speaking of the NY Times, they and other MSM outlets have gotten away with libel too.
 

Arcygenical

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You're also not the 23rd richest person in the world with 22 million twitter followers insulting people where 22 million people can see. That's 20 times more than the NY Times circulation. If you print that kind of unsubstantiated nonsense, you could be charged with libel. It actually makes perfect sense why he would have sued.
Yeah but, Unsworth was literally crying during the closing remarks. Pedo guy needs to sack up and realize that, boo hoo, people say mean things. Even rich people. Bet he wouldn't have sued if Elon made 30k a year.

Clearly crocodile tear bullshit. Looking for an easy payday. That may not make Unsworth a pedophile, but it it makes him an asshole. I hope he sues me too.

Musk acts like a child sometimes. So do all humans. Literally. Every last one, from time to time. People just don't bother paying attention to all but the smallest (read - richest/most famous) minority of us on this planet. Must isn't charged with upholding laws or maintaining balance and order in society, why should he be held to a higher standard than the rest of us?

I'd have some choice words as well, if someone publicly stated, on TV, out of the blue, that I get fucked in the ass by a submarine.

And a person, even a public figure, isn't - by definition - categorized as a news or media outlet. That's an illogical, fallacious and categorically false argument.
 
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