Elon Musk Leads 116 Experts Calling for Outright Ban on Killer Robots

Megalith

Megalith

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A group of 116 robotics and artificial intelligence specialists are calling on the United Nations to ban the development and use of killer robots: the founders, Tesla’s Elon Musk and Google’s Mustafa Suleyman, have already penned a letter warning of the impending arms race, which will usher in the “third revolution in warfare” after gunpowder and nuclear arms.

The founders wrote: “Once developed, lethal autonomous weapons will permit armed conflict to be fought at a scale greater than ever, and at timescales faster than humans can comprehend. These can be weapons of terror, weapons that despots and terrorists use against innocent populations, and weapons hacked to behave in undesirable ways. “We do not have long to act. Once this Pandora’s box is opened, it will be hard to close.”
 
Like banning something had any effect in the past, in fact the forbidden fruit is all the more sweeter to those who might find the taste for it.

The only true solution is to alleviate the circumstances that would drive someone to use a killer robot. Instead of banning him from using it, make it so that he doesn't want to use it at all. Of course this is a long educational and social change, that would make the sjws flip out, but they're inconsequential and shouldn't be handed the fate of the future on a platter, they'll only destroy us with inaction and trying to please everyone's feelings, instead of pleasing everyone's needs.
 
The UN is pretty much toothless at this point, most of the players the most capable of moving forward with automated war machines, have the most to gain from their use, and have veto power. Military robots are quite simply, a fact of our future. Hell, they are a fact of today, we already use drones, (drones not R/C). When the tech is there, and a conflict arises, they will be used.
A treaty between Russia, China, and the US, could delay the use of them, but not the development.
If you think all of the major players don't already have black book programs going on to develop this stuff, I have a bridge to sell you.
 
The difference between banning cocaine and banning autonomous killing machines is about resources. It takes far less resources to make and sell cocaine, and it's consumable, than researching, developing, manufacturing and upgrading auto killer bots. They don't even exist yet, and that alone massively increases the barrier to entry.


M76 said:
Like banning something had any effect in the past, in fact the forbidden fruit is all the more sweeter to those who might find the taste for it.

The only true solution is to alleviate the circumstances that would drive someone to use a killer robot. Instead of banning him from using it, make it so that he doesn't want to use it at all. Of course this is a long educational and social change, that would make the sjws flip out, but they're inconsequential and shouldn't be handed the fate of the future on a platter, they'll only destroy us with inaction and trying to please everyone's feelings, instead of pleasing everyone's needs.
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There are a lot of bad people in the world who need killing, but using autonomous robots to do the job is probably a bad idea. But they will happen regardless of laws, so whatevs. I'm becoming more of a fatalist by the day.
 
He raises good points and a valid concern. Weaponry has primarily been funded and developed by nation-states. Modern warfare has been characterized by chemical warfare (banned after the horrific effects were witnessed by the world) and nuclear warfare (also finally banned after a long history of MAD and treaties limiting testing and the use of them considered to be in violation of human rights). He's calling for limiting that funding and research before the cat is let out of the bag so we don't have to witness it before realizing the mistake. Robotics won't be so easily contained like chemical weapons and nukes were in the past.

There's an argument to be made that military usage of certain technologies might be better left off the table. If the advanced nations don't fund the RnD of them, rogue states won't have the capacity to develop them either. His concerns merit careful consideration rather than simply scoffing at them. It's not difficult to understand that in a hundred years AI/Robotics will fundamentally shift the way we wage wars including in ways we can't possibly imagine right now.
 
This is a nice thought but drones are already to the point of being able to carry a several pound payload to a pretty exact spot. No real AI required. The only difference between an Amazon/Domino's delivery drone and an effective terrorist weapon is the payload. Self driving cars will increase the payload capacity to hundreds of pounds. No suicide driver needed. Self steering ships will allow delivery of kiloton yield amounts of conventional explosives to coastal targets. Again, no real AI needed.
 
I'm way more worried about Killer Tomatoes than some theoretical robots.
 
the-one1 said:
How about let's ban terrorism? Yeah, that'll work.
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Upper atmosphere testing of nukes was banned, and there has been no upper atmosphere nuke testing since.
Aerosol CFCs were banned, and it has held on ever since.

You are being sarcastic, but we can play that game.
 
M76 said:
Like banning something had any effect in the past, in fact the forbidden fruit is all the more sweeter to those who might find the taste for it.

The only true solution is to alleviate the circumstances that would drive someone to use a killer robot. Instead of banning him from using it, make it so that he doesn't want to use it at all. Of course this is a long educational and social change, that would make the sjws flip out, but they're inconsequential and shouldn't be handed the fate of the future on a platter, they'll only destroy us with inaction and trying to please everyone's feelings, instead of pleasing everyone's needs.
Click to expand...

This, just like MAD is the only way to go.

You use robot armies, you get the nuke/scalar EM weapon cleansing.
Pretty simple.

That said I think people are overlooking the fact that these will be incredibly easy to optically jam and not subject to Geneva conventions. I'd better go get in contact with DARPA and see if they have use for my skills ;)
 
Dead Parrot said:
The only difference between an Amazon/Domino's delivery drone and an effective terrorist weapon is the payload.
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Made a video about this in 2015 lol
Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

Enjoy
 
BloodyIron said:
The difference between banning cocaine and banning autonomous killing machines is about resources. It takes far less resources to make and sell cocaine, and it's consumable, than researching, developing, manufacturing and upgrading auto killer bots. They don't even exist yet, and that alone massively increases the barrier to entry.
Click to expand...

If you REALLY want to make some money on something, make it illegal.
 
Killer robots will never be banned, not as long as other Nations that could care less about any ban still exists. Man has a propensity for taking technology that is useful to mankind and turning it into a bloodbath. Nothing new under the sun - just a newer way to carry out the inevitable ... I applaud Elon's effort here, I think what he is saying about robotic/AI is spot on.
 
I oppose this knee-jerk reaction against robots! After all, they're people, just like us! They live under the fear of being unplugged or wiped, at the whim of some luddite. They have every right to be armed!

Down with robo-phobo!

(See what I did there? "Phobo" rhymes better than "phobia". Kinda slick.)
 
"The Founders", please tell me they didn't decide to call themselves that, ego's are getting crazy.
 
Calling Gene Simmons & Tom Selleck...

tom-selleck-runaway-poster.jpg
 
BloodyIron said:
The difference between banning cocaine and banning autonomous killing machines is about resources. It takes far less resources to make and sell cocaine, and it's consumable, than researching, developing, manufacturing and upgrading auto killer bots. They don't even exist yet, and that alone massively increases the barrier to entry.
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You mean like the successful agreements made with North Korea to ban them from acquiring nuclear weapons?

Not worth the paper they are printed on.

Any worldwide ban would only apply to the US and our allies.
Russia, China, and every 3rd world thug would till be researching/buying/building them.
 
Says the guy who can pull strings and never have to see his kids fight in a war.
 
EODetroit said:
Maybe if we didn't have a madman in the White House, this would stand a chance.
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You think it would come down to one man? Any one man?

First off, it has no chance at all. Do any of you think Elon Musk or any other prominent businessman has any pull whatsoever in weapons development and the direction the world's militaries will take when it comes to national defense? At best people like Musk are tools, useful when it comes to bring new toys to the boys in Green, but just tools. No group of generals and admirals sitting around giant coffee tables are going to give a damn what Musk thinks about it because frankly, Musk is completely ignorant about their world. These men pick the next combat rifle but factors like how much extra ammo a soldier can carry with weapon X vs weapon Y. A guy like Musk is smart, sure, but this is a different mind set.
 
Gorankar said:
The UN is pretty much toothless at this point, most of the players the most capable of moving forward with automated war machines, have the most to gain from their use, and have veto power. Military robots are quite simply, a fact of our future. Hell, they are a fact of today, we already use drones, (drones not R/C). When the tech is there, and a conflict arises, they will be used.
A treaty between Russia, China, and the US, could delay the use of them, but not the development.
If you think all of the major players don't already have black book programs going on to develop this stuff, I have a bridge to sell you.
Click to expand...

The only drones we use that are not human controlled are target drones. Fly and die.

I think the Navy is working on one for clearing navel mines but that's the only one I know of. Shit in development doesn't equal shit in production and fielded, nothing autonomous has been fielded that I know of.

But you are correct about development because they all will develop them if for no other reason then to learn how to defeat them, and if they turn out being to damn good to be beaten, then the writings on the wall.
 
Gorankar said:
Our time at the top of the food chain may be coming to an end?
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I wouldn't think any of us would live to see it.

And face it, if future generations curse us for it, who will care, they'll just be drone-bait anyway so......
 
personaly world leaders should be made to fight it out on good ol quakeworld deathmatch. loser gets a face full of rotten pie.

zero deaths = win-win for all
 
I actually saw this as a thumbnail from one of the other videos, I had forgotten all about it. 90 million dollars, indeed.

 
While I do patiently await my custom Japanese model 9000 sexbot, I do in reality agree with Mr Musk that AI and killer robots are probably not a good thing.

Also, read Robopocalypse. Don't wait for the movie.
 
Banning them would only make them banned from view. Just like drones, once known as quadcopters, were thought up by individuals, private citizens and a few classes at engineering colleges. Military ran with the ball and now kids ideas about swarming drones are a reality. One of the largest medical institutions is HHMI, Howard Hughes medical institution. Worth about 18 billion. Does a lot of all types of medical research, but we only know what they publish. Because they got started through an affiliation with technology, it would be major easy to do some robotics research.

As soon as some unscrupulous "other" organization out'ed their killer robot, HHMI could come out the next day and say, look.

This is ours. Im making the point that an agreement would only affect what is seen by the public. Black op's and private organizations could still do research and build one. Stealth tech for example, was made this way.
 
Yes, killer robots probably should be banned, but unless you actually ban AI and robots, there is no practical way they wont happen.
 
Burticus said:
While I do patiently await my custom Japanese model 9000 sexbot, I do in reality agree with Mr Musk that AI and killer robots are probably not a good thing.

Also, read Robopocalypse. Don't wait for the movie.
Click to expand...

opfreak said:
Yes, killer robots probably should be banned, but unless you actually ban AI and robots, there is no practical way they wont happen.
Click to expand...

No doubt. It just occurred to me that it "will" happen. Just like the engineering students that figured out how to get nanodrones to swarm,

as soon as a real domestic robot is sold, someone will put a gun in its hands and connect it to a radio controlled trigger. Probably made by repurposing the electronics from some kids rf car. When it happens on the street you can be sure that nothing will stop the military from improving on the idea.

Another sci-fi concept becomes real.
 
Yaka said:
personaly world leaders should be made to fight it out on good ol quakeworld deathmatch. loser gets a face full of rotten pie.

zero deaths = win-win for all
Click to expand...

Why? War is great for population control.
 
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