Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Announced for release on 11/11/11.

Viper87227 said:
This was always one of the biggest annoyances for me. I didn't like that in Oblivion, all wildlife except for deer are always hostile. I really wish they would overhaul that. Perhaps giving animals like wolves and mountain lions hunting cycles or something. It would be neat if it were dangerous to travel at night with a relevantly low chance of being attacked in daylight when these animals would normally be sleeping. Skyrim obviously does have some animals that only attack when provoked (such as the mammoths), but I really hope that the more viscous wildlife isn't codded to just attack on sight.

As you suggested, the same would be great for bandits. The logical thought process for a bandit should be to size up their foe before jumping in. It would be neat if you had encounters with them where their decision to attack or not was determined based on the conversation you have with them. Like with a high enough persuasion you could talk yourself out of a fight.
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Wolves should not be hostile, and they should be mostly pack animals taht hunt other animals, only attacking you if you attack them/put them into a corner. Hostile wolves should be ones diseased with rabies, etc.
 
You can mod that :p

One thing to keep in mind is that at release Oblivion had technology limitations that affected game design. If you recall Oblivion has trouble handling multiple AI actors at the same time, this was improved in future improvements of the engine (FO3, NV). Now most people have PCs with much stronger CPUs and memory bandwidth to power through these limitations, back then not so much.
 
limitedaccess said:
You can mod that :p

One thing to keep in mind is that at release Oblivion had technology limitations that affected game design. If you recall Oblivion has trouble handling multiple AI actors at the same time, this was improved in future improvements of the engine (FO3, NV). Now most people have PCs with much stronger CPUs and memory bandwidth to power through these limitations, back then not so much.
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It wasn't technology holding us back, but programming in the engine.
 
When I say technology, I don't mean just hardware on the end user side but on the game development side as well. Game development techniques are ever improving and advance. I did mention that the engine itself had trouble handling multiple AI actors, and this technology was improved in future games that used it. The AI implementation in Oblivion at the time was actually quite new in terms of scope combined with the type of game.

In terms of bringing up hardware, most people now probably don't realize that Oblivion had trouble with this, since current end user hardware is strong enough to compensate to a large extent.
 
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While I agree that enemies should make a decision whether to attack you or not, it would not be very realistic if enemies automatically knew who you are from a distance and how powerful you are. (insert power level >9000 joke here)

I think it would be an interesting if how intimidating you are to enemies was related to the fame/infamy system, which existed in Oblivion but was hardly used. It would be neat if disguises or the quality of your clothes/armor had an influence on it too...

Of course this sort of thing is not nearly fun enough or "accessible" enough for Bethesda to consider putting money into. If the game exposes enough control over actors via the scripting engine, I might make a mod of it.
 
Kaldskryke said:
While I agree that enemies should make a decision whether to attack you or not, it would not be very realistic if enemies automatically knew who you are from a distance and how powerful you are. (insert power level >9000 joke here)

I think it would be an interesting if how intimidating you are to enemies was related to the fame/infamy system, which existed in Oblivion but was hardly used. It would be neat if disguises or the quality of your clothes/armor had an influence on it too...

Of course this sort of thing is not nearly fun enough or "accessible" enough for Bethesda to consider putting money into. If the game exposes enough control over actors via the scripting engine, I might make a mod of it.
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If i just had a dagger and saw that this dude coming towards me is in full plate and has a fuckin bastard sword, i think i'd know to run. They really should combine all the ideas on this page to make a sick AI :drool:
 
chockomonkey said:
If i just had a dagger and saw that this dude coming towards me is in full plate and has a fuckin bastard sword, i think i'd know to run. They really should combine all the ideas on this page to make a sick AI :drool:
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That'll be the day :)

My problem stems from the engine as well, it renders everything well, even going back and playing oblivion on PS3 has been enjoyable, but the combat interaction is dismal. I didn't see an improvement in fallout3/NV either, melee fighting is straight up rush in, smack attack key over and over. The projectile weapons did ok, and were even somewhat satisfying, but the VATs implementation was almost completely unneeded, and overpowered for harder fights that just made everything too easy. It would be nice to see a melee system where you can attack at different angles, sidestep, hit weak points in armor etc.
 
that would be the holy grail of combat... tactical use of sword to sword collision, angles, various points of contact on the swing arch (i.e. tip of the swords hurt more, beginning of the swing hurts less), sheesh a decent hitbox system should be mandatory, momentum and inertia, slipping to the side of the opponent, bobbing and weaving, throwing opponent off balance/to the ground ....

*sigh*


then for the kiddies, old people, and dice stats people who just want to "just play a simple game" or "just want their stats to fight for them" throw in some dice rolling to randomly calculate the above mentioned features.
 
Parmenides said:
that would be the holy grail of combat... tactical use of sword to sword collision, angles, various points of contact on the swing arch (i.e. tip of the swords hurt more, beginning of the swing hurts less), sheesh a decent hitbox system should be mandatory, momentum and inertia, slipping to the side of the opponent, bobbing and weaving, throwing opponent off balance/to the ground ....

*sigh*


then for the kiddies, old people, and dice stats people who just want to "just play a simple game" or "just want their stats to fight for them" throw in some dice rolling to randomly calculate the above mentioned features.
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If people haven't they should really check out Duke Patricks Melee Combat mod found http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/files/download/914-duke-patricks-melee-combat-no-recoil/

It adds realistic combat features to Oblivion's combat system. I recommend to combine it with his Combat archery mod for more realism.
 
Parmenides said:
that would be the holy grail of combat... tactical use of sword to sword collision, angles, various points of contact on the swing arch (i.e. tip of the swords hurt more, beginning of the swing hurts less), sheesh a decent hitbox system should be mandatory, momentum and inertia, slipping to the side of the opponent, bobbing and weaving, throwing opponent off balance/to the ground ....

*sigh*


then for the kiddies, old people, and dice stats people who just want to "just play a simple game" or "just want their stats to fight for them" throw in some dice rolling to randomly calculate the above mentioned features.
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It'll happen.. someday. :D
 
Rhyick said:
It'll happen.. someday. :D
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Know something I don't?

sculelos said:
If people haven't they should really check out Duke Patricks Melee Combat mod found http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/files/download/914-duke-patricks-melee-combat-no-recoil/

It adds realistic combat features to Oblivion's combat system. I recommend to combine it with his Combat archery mod for more realism.
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I should try that. Played deadly reflexes and the first iteration of unnecessary violence. Those are pretty good. Sounds like the creator Spooky or whatever pays great attention to mechanics. Definitely will look at it when I play Oblivion next.... though not sure when that will ever happen when my current rig will probably run Morrowind and Skyrim better.
 
I need to finally complete Oblivion, but I need my mods. Is the easiest way to just "roll my own" and hope I don't fubar my install, or to use some pre-packaged massive mod setup? The part I hate about giant mod compilations is that you can't really customize them.
 
Riddleofsteel said:
I need to finally complete Oblivion, but I need my mods. Is the easiest way to just "roll my own" and hope I don't fubar my install, or to use some pre-packaged massive mod setup? The part I hate about giant mod compilations is that you can't really customize them.
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Oh, there is customization if you know what you're doing. I installed one Morrowind overhaul on top of another Morrowind Overhaul. Granted, the 1st probably only shows up in whatever textures and meshes the 2nd didn't cover. Graphic and sound overhauls just cover just that. Plenty of room for armor/weapons mods, skills, spells, quest mods and combat mods to put on top. The main thing to watch out for is what .esp files you have activated. Dumping a bunch of stuff into the Meshes and Textures folder doesn't need careful consideration. And with the .esp files get mlox for morrowind or BOSS for Oblivion. Those will give excellent suggestions and tell you where you go wrong.

I finally got a big stash of Morrowind mods to play on. Having much much more fun than my last Oblivion playthrough. Really awesome quest mods. Playing Rise of House Telvanni, Builing up Uvirinth's Legacy, Uvurinth's legacy to name a few right now.

Also, Oblivion's FCOM overhaul does have a lot of room for custom stuff.
 
For all you masochists who like pain and misery, it seems prison can reduce your skills to zero?

Found here:

  • Resisting arrest is actually a viable option in Skyrim because unlike in Oblivion if the player is successfully able to kill any bystanders to their crime then the bounty is removed. This allows players to commit assault or murder in front of a guard and if they can kill the guard then they may be able to wipe out their bounty.
  • If players choose to go to jail they are given a lockpick similarly to Oblivion. The lockpicking system is quite similar to that in Fallout 3/New Vegas. This mini-game requires players to angle the lockpick in a particular way and then spin the lock around until it unlocks. If the pin is in the wrong spot then it will wobble and eventually break. If the player breaks the lock they can walk out free.
  • If the player chooses to wait they now no longer lose several points from their skills. Instead their progress in some skills is set back to zero. Bethesda Softworks has not provided a reason for this.
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oh wait, it's probably skill gain as a % towards the next level ... sounded more hardcore than dark souls for a second.
 
Will this game be cross platform for online? I will probably only get it when it gets on sale for like $40.
 
Should I play Oblivion before I jump right into Skyrim? I never played any Elder Scrolls game before, but it looks exactly like my sort of game.
 
Yeah the only kind of continuation you'll get between TES games are recognizable races and little references to past events as story lore. But like CryingGod said, the actual stories between TES games are separate from one another.
 
There's a loose connection between the games, but you definitely won't feel lost having not played the previous ones.
 
You can pick up oblivion for cheap nowadays. give it a try. Chances are if you can't stand the slow pace or clunky controls, you won't like Skyrim. However, if you are enamored with the depth, universe and customizability, you probably will JIMP for Skyrim.

as for me: JIMP.
 
... and just as you finish up Skyrim, Kingdoms of Amalur - Reckoning (aka as just 'Reckoning') should be out \o/ :)
 
i got a feeling this game will end up as a dud on pc just like RAGE and RO2.

our only hope for a bug freeish/ no console port game is BF3. Bad year for pc gaming IMO.
 
Actually, When game developers are honest and say "hey, we're developing this primarily on console and retrocoding in PC features" the PC versions usually turn out all-right. Games are usually worse-off when companies say "Yeah, man! PC ALL THE WAY. We love the PC so much!" and then release a console port.

Oblivion. it was primarily a console game, but it had mod tools and appropriate drivers on release.

Rage: advertised as a PC game: made PC users want to commit suicide.

BF3 is being advertised as a PC savior... do the math.
 
KazeoHin said:
Rage: advertised as a PC game: made PC users want to commit suicide.
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Wha? Carmack admitted in June that he should have focused on developing the PC version, and that it was a console port. The problem here was that they tried to rush it out with the console versions instead of giving it the extra polish it needed.

I kind of agree with your point, but I think the major issue is the devs not taking the time to give the PC versions the polish they need. Shouldn't be the case here, though. Bethesda knows what they're doing when it comes to porting to PC.
 
Delaying the game on the PC would also solicit a vocal negative reaction.

As for Skyrim expectations, bug free at launch? I think anyone expecting this will be sorely disappointed. Even if they hypothetically had the same budget and did a PC only release, it wouldn't be bug free at launch.

jonneymendoza said:
i got a feeling this game will end up as a dud on pc just like RAGE and RO2.

our only hope for a bug freeish/ no console port game is BF3. Bad year for pc gaming IMO.
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The Witcher 2 and DXHR were also released this year, among other titles. People focus on the negatives too much.

KazeoHin said:
Oblivion. it was primarily a console game, but it had mod tools and appropriate drivers on release.
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Actually a funny thing about Oblivion is that on the PC it does not support HDR and AA "natively" compared to the console version.
 
KazeoHin said:
You can pick up oblivion for cheap nowadays. give it a try. Chances are if you can't stand the slow pace or clunky controls, you won't like Skyrim. However, if you are enamored with the depth, universe and customizability, you probably will JIMP for Skyrim.

as for me: JIMP.
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They had a special if you pick up the oblivion anniversary edition you get money off Skyrim. It includes all the dlc for oblivion as well. Pretty awesome deal. I would get it if I didn't already have the game.
 
limitedaccess said:
As for Skyrim expectations, bug free at launch? I think anyone expecting this will be sorely disappointed. Even if they hypothetically had the same budget and did a PC only release, it wouldn't be bug free at launch.
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Especially coming from Bethesda. That idea is absolutely laughable and I'm saying that as a big fan of their games.


The Witcher 2 and DXHR were also released this year, among other titles. People focus on the negatives too much.
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Agreed. Buy good games, don't buy bad games.
 
Given Skyrim's scope, I doubt any dev would come out with a bug free Skyrim (with its current budget). But yeah, Bethseda certainly does not have the track record.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Do u reckon this game will be bug ridden and a pile of console crap like RAGE?
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I expect I'll be able to launch it and play it. I also expect there to be anywhere north of 500+ minor content bugs, probably at least 10-20 larger content bugs, and at worst maybe 1-2 show-stoppers. That's fairly par for the course for an Elder Scrolls game. The very idea that any game with upwards of 100 hours of gameplay with as much freedom as TES games usually offer would be bug-free is literal insanity.

I still cannot play Rage. Even with the AMD/ATI perf patch, new Rage update and following all the various guides to disable Catalyst AI, etc. I basically get 1-3 frames per second after the intro vid.

So I will not play Rage at all probably, or ever buy another game from Id, sadly.
 
Q-BZ said:
Agreed. Buy good games, don't buy bad games.
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It seems there is always a stronger focus on not buying bad games, but not much on buying good games. I wonder if this seemingly more negative oriented attitude of PC gamers is self defeating. I have a feeling there is more interest in trashing and not buying the worst games of the year versus discussing and buying the best games of the year.

Q-BZ said:
Especially coming from Bethesda. That idea is absolutely laughable and I'm saying that as a big fan of their games.
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Parmenides said:
Given Skyrim's scope, I doubt any dev would come out with a bug free Skyrim (with its current budget). But yeah, Bethseda certainly does not have the track record.
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Denki said:
I expect I'll be able to launch it and play it. I also expect there to be anywhere north of 500+ minor content bugs, probably at least 10-20 larger content bugs, and at worst maybe 1-2 show-stoppers. That's fairly par for the course for an Elder Scrolls game. The very idea that any game with upwards of 100 hours of gameplay with as much freedom as TES games usually offer would be bug-free is literal insanity.
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I'd agree the type of and scope of the game is a huge consideration in this case. You also factor in how the game will accommodate modding, and the challenge of making everything function perfectly is quite evident.

I wouldn't say Bethesda is actually much worse in this respect. From what I understand other similar type games are also rather buggy. I don't feel you can achieve that kind of stability in this type of game, especially when you know a significant portion of the player base will actually be trying to "break" things.

My own personal experience with both Morrowind, Oblivion, and FO3 actually I'd say is quite stable given expectations. The only technical issue I've ever been frustrated by was the Tenpenny tower glitch in FO3, but never anything to the point of wanting to not play the games anymore. And I've played Morrowind and Oblivion on what was quite low end hardware at the time.
 
limitedaccess said:
I'd agree the type of and scope of the game is a huge consideration in this case. You also factor in how the game will accommodate modding, and the challenge of making everything function perfectly is quite evident.

I wouldn't say Bethesda is actually much worse in this respect. From what I understand other similar type games are also rather buggy. I don't feel you can achieve that kind of stability in this type of game, especially when you know a significant portion of the player base will actually be trying to "break" things.

My own personal experience with both Morrowind, Oblivion, and FO3 actually I'd say is quite stable given expectations. The only technical issue I've ever been frustrated by was the Tenpenny tower glitch in FO3, but never anything to the point of wanting to not play the games anymore. And I've played Morrowind and Oblivion on what was quite low end hardware at the time.
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I actually have played all the Bethesda games and even though I ran into my fair shares of technical issues and glitches within the games themselves they have also been incrudably large games with mods that are even more massive and literally add loads of features and functionality that even the game developers probably didn't even think would be made in reality.

Oblivion is one of the few games that I think someone could play around it with different sets of mods and have different game experiences for thousands of hours and I'm not just saying that because their is a truely staggering amount of community created content for the game.

Saying that pretty much all of my time spent playing Fallout 3 was unmodded and I had a great game experience, the fully modded game can really make you feel like your character is truely alive like no other game I've played except perhaps some of the Stalker games.

For Skyrim I have high hopes and I expect the vanilla version of the game will be great but the modders will take it's potential to new heights because of the improvements to the creation engine and the new possiblity's with the new features in the engine. I hear that the game WILL support Direct X 11 even though it won't use any of the features of it but I'm sure modders will...
 
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