I personally hope vampires and werewolves make it to Skyrim. I could personally care less about weapon degradation and stat simplification since I think they will make the game-play better. I will definitely add many mods to Skyrim over the course of time, I just hope it's much better then Oblivion's System which got very complicated over time.
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Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Announced for release on 11/11/11.
- Thread starter TheNuker
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I personally hope vampires and werewolves make it to Skyrim. I could personally care less about weapon degradation and stat simplification since I think they will make the game-play better. I will definitely add many mods to Skyrim over the course of time, I just hope it's much better then Oblivion's System which got very complicated over time.
Stereophile
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That seems a little short. You must not have to grind or anything. (probably some scaling still going on)
No, it isn't the same logic at all. Weapon degradation in games when related to firearms is fucking retarded for a single player game. Now if you're looking at something like modern warfare where you blow through tens of thousands of rounds.. that is way different.
It's the same with weapon degradation in Skyrim, sure you'd need to re-edge swords and sharpen them and axes and what not. Very minor things would actually have to be done for upkeep, and the system is flawed. Carrying around 80 hammers to repair all your shit is stupid.
You're just trying to be a sensationalist. I agree wholeheartedly on health potions and spells being necessary vs regenerative health (I find that totally fucking dumb) it removes all the strategy and purpose behind being careful not to die. Dying should be a big deal.
But having this unrealistic burden of having to constantly repair shit is dumb. It has little place as a skill. Now if you want to say.. carry around a whetstone and you have to sharpen the weapon or its effectiveness drops by 10-15% every say.. 100-200 swings... sure.. I kinda like that.. It adds realism and it's not overly intrusive.
karlmalone
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Thank you,it helps me.
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Weenus you kind of forget how accererated game time is so accelerated weapon degradation feels natural. Anyway the idea is that it´s a good mechanic and it´s as good skill as any since you do really benefit from a good repair skill. It saves a lot of money having to pay someone to do it. Remove all that and you have a dumber and simpler game with less options.
Fading Phoenix
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I like the weapon degradation, but then I'm kind of a masochist in my Oblivion. It added an extra level of strategy/planning, and gave purpose to stop killing once in a while or at times a reason to actually give money to a merchant. I will say it wasn't necessarily implemented the best in the game, and could have had more dynamics to it, but I'd rather have it than not.
dude, a game doesn't get dumber because you remove the "repair" skill / weapon degradation. it just takes an annoying mechanic out of the way so you can spend your gaming time doing something actually enjoyable. GOODBYE WEAPON DEGRADATION AND GOOD RIDDANCE.
seriously, you think it takes brainpower to see your weapon "health" drop, and then press the repair button?
Wizardhawk
Limp Gawd
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People actually paid the merchants to repair stuff in Oblivion? It was the easiest thing in the world to do. Start game, buy a bunch of hammers, loot every single weapon/armor that drops, repair it to full, drop that garbage on the ground. Boom, 75 repair in no time (pretty sure 75 was how much it took to repair magic stuff, been a little while). Then all it turned into was a 30 second repair sessions every 10 minutes and having to use up a decent chunk of your weight limit on stupid hammers.
Oh look how real this is, my guy is so clumsy that I break a hammer every time I swing it!
I admit that it was a little more annoying then anything else. Without the need to repair weapons, train athletics or acrobatics there literally will be no need to do stupid crap anymore in the game. I think perks will compensate for those skills anyways if done right.
Hopefully this time they just don't have any overpowered weapons, realistic weapons are much better in video games in my opinion.
Skykrim as an RPG should implement something more realistic for degredation and repair, for example a repair skill that allows you to run a forge, which in turn allows you to repair your gear. Until you reach that level of cash (to buy tools) and skill (build and run a forge), you pay someone else. Better, a combo of skills; Repair + high sword skill allows you to forge and repair swords but (as an example) not high quality armor, unless your armor skill was also high.
It makes total sense for your gear to degrade and it's easily done without becoming tedious. Using Fallout NV as an example, I had to be very conscious of weapon quality early in the game. As you progress and your wealth and fame increases, it becomes less and less of a factor and added to the feeling of progression.
I just started playing Fallout NV and it's such a damned good game that my expectations for Skykrim went through the roof... Then I noticed that Obsidian made the game. Dammit!
I hope to god Bethesda looked long and hard at the differences between FO3 and NV and implemented some of the more subtle (or less dumbed down) parts of the game into Skykrim.
It makes total sense for your gear to degrade and it's easily done without becoming tedious. Using Fallout NV as an example, I had to be very conscious of weapon quality early in the game. As you progress and your wealth and fame increases, it becomes less and less of a factor and added to the feeling of progression.
I just started playing Fallout NV and it's such a damned good game that my expectations for Skykrim went through the roof... Then I noticed that Obsidian made the game. Dammit!
I hope to god Bethesda looked long and hard at the differences between FO3 and NV and implemented some of the more subtle (or less dumbed down) parts of the game into Skykrim.
Krenum
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They shouldn't be looking at Fallout at all. I hope there looking at the previous Elderscrolls games and going from there.
I like Weenis' idea of carrying a whetstone to resharpen weapons. Better than carrying 50 million hammers around with you at all times. You talk about accelerated time making it feel natural... but at the same time how natural is it to walk around with a bag of hammers and just randomly hit your items with a hammer, have the hammer break and magically your armour and weapons are repaired
There are tedious tasks I like in RPGs and other ones I just tolerate, weapon repairing is on the "tolerate" list, its just tedious for the sake of being tedious and an annoyance rather than a challenge.
Maybe a weapon repair mini game?
*thinks about the mining in Mass Effect 2... I guess not all things should be turned into an activity...*
But how cool would that be to see the blemishes/damage to your actual weapon during the repair screen and you can use a tool to bang 'em out and make the weapon more efficient again?
I'd take that further and say they should look at the most popular mods from previous games. I'm not a guy that's normally big on mods, but I thought Morrowind and Oblivion were much better with mods that changed non-graphical stuff.
I'd rather they would, there are some FO elements that are superior to TES games, specifically:
Lose the uber mage/fighter/thief bullshit. Specialization should lead to more specialization and high competency in a few areas (or the opposite, jack-of-all-trades, master of none). NV example: Perks & skills
Choice & consequences. You can be a member--and possibly the leader--of the mage, fighter and thieves guild?
The ability to do nearly everything in a single playthrough is the wrong focus. NV=choice & consequence.Skills. I used to think the TES method was the bees knees, but really all it is is tedium. The idea of increasing in skill as you use it is a good one but the implementation sucks, particularly with infrequently used skills like lockpicking and combat magic. Your choices all suck: 1) The skill stays low, 2) You buy skill increases (uber lame) or 3) you do some repetitive and useless task over and over, like picking the same lock a hundred times or sneak/Q/run at a corner. NV: Goes back to the first point. skills & perks.
[edit] Forgot to mention, it sounds like they're moving that way already (at least with skills/perks/leveling), but we'll see.
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Fuck I need this game... can't come soon enough.
BUT, I'm not that happy about the interface/inventory, class tree shit, looks a bit console-ish to me, I'd prefer less spacing, more information on screen at once. Also, inventory/items, I prefer to see my character and drag equipment to slots and all that. I even like seeing real bags in the interface for all my gear.
BUT, I'm not that happy about the interface/inventory, class tree shit, looks a bit console-ish to me, I'd prefer less spacing, more information on screen at once. Also, inventory/items, I prefer to see my character and drag equipment to slots and all that. I even like seeing real bags in the interface for all my gear.
you didn't like the graphical mods?
The ones that added night/day lighting to windows, opened up cities, added more weather/seasonal weather and skies, complete with stars that'd rotate over the year.
The QARL high res textures, the clothing/armor mods and better faces, etc.
Game looked 10x better with those things.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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Did people actually have their weapons and armor so degraded that they broke? Never happened to me. I carried ~10 hammers with me, quickly clicked them when needed. Takes maybe 4 seconds.
Also, yes, there was a benefit to the Armorer skill. After a certain point, you could repair items over the 100 limit to increase their usefulness.
There is quite a bit being taken out of TES, but not a whole lot being put in.
Also, yes, there was a benefit to the Armorer skill. After a certain point, you could repair items over the 100 limit to increase their usefulness.
There is quite a bit being taken out of TES, but not a whole lot being put in.
limitedaccess
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In theory (since we have no idea how it works in practice yet) the "Radiant Story" system they are adding is an important addition to game play and will have a much more significant impact than all these extraneous things they are removing.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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Color me jaded, but they also promised the same gameplay elements Radiant Story is *now* changing all the way up until almost release day of Oblivion. I really hope they can pull it off correctly, but they have been removing elements from TES since after they released Daggerfall. Every time I hear about another removed element, I wonder a bit.
I'll wait and see, but it is a bit discouraging.
I was just thinking the same thing - they talked up the "new" AI stuff a whole bunch leading up to Oblivion, and we see how that turned out. Also, I'm not sure I'm thrilled by the "populate dungeons with enemies appropriate to your skill level" angle - sounds a lot like the level system from Oblivion.
TheOneKnownAsMe
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I wonder how much the technical limitations of the Xbox 360 came into play with Oblivion. They were rather ambitious, they had all sorts of cool lighting stuff going on, in addition to the radiant AI implementations they had planned. Surely they were forced to remove a lot of those elements due to how limited the Xbox 360 was.
I'm sure something like Radiant AI would stress the CPU a fair bit, and It doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to me that they were unable to optimize it in time for the release of Oblivion, so it was stripped out.
I dunno, I didn't really care about Oblivion that much, and it wasn't because it lacked Radiant AI or anything, it just all felt... wrong. Between the level scaling, piss-poor storyline (once again, you're nothing more than an errand boy, there is absolutely nothing compelling about the story) and cookie-cutter dungeons it just felt inferior to the previous entries in the series. There weren't even very many easter eggs or cool, unique pieces of equipment to find in obscure parts of the dungeons. And then there was the extremely bland world.
The only thing Oblivion did right in my book was the Dark Brotherhood.
Morrowind is still my favorite in the series. While many skills were stripped from Daggerfall, they did it in a way that made Morrowind feel gimped. And the storyline was just great. You're the reincarnation of a warrior saint who goes around killing gods, far better than "Wut, I'm the emperor now? Okay, take me to my castle, errand boy!" and "Oh, I need you to go wander into this old ruin, face off an extremely powerful undead Lich, and obtain this crystal. What, why can't I do it? I'm too fucking important, and besides, I'm too much of a pussy anyways."
In Morrowind, you were the story, whereas in Oblivion you're just some escaped convict who happened to be there when the emperor died, so therefore you're obligated to at the very least follow his instructions, uttered mere moments before his death. But beyond that, I couldn't care less. There was nothing keeping me going, other than the fact that I wanted the achievements (yes, I played through Oblivion on Xbox 360 my first time through. The game utterly raped my computer at the time.)
At least with Skyrim, they're taking a few cues from Morrowind. For instance, you are once again the center of the storyline. And they're making some effort to make the world feel different, which is absolutely great. If I'm to spend several hundred hours backpacking around this country, they need to at least make it interesting.
I am a bit conflicted about the removal of weapon/equipment degradation. No, in it's current form, it offered absolutely nothing in terms of additional enjoyment. However, I think they approached it a bit like Bioware did with removing the Inventory in ME2.
"What? You guys didn't like the Inventory? Well then, let's just get rid of it completely!"
They should have looked at weapon degradation/repair and asked themselves how they could rework it to make it more interesting. Perhaps introduce 2 different variables? Maybe one which represents sharpness or something, which acted as a weapon efficiency modifier, and then a second variable that represented overall weapon condition, and which determined the weapons base damage. That would allow for an implementation of a whetstone, like Weenis recommended. The weapon dulls over time, it's only natural, but it's something that can be mended fairly quickly. A whetstone is small and relatively light, so it doesn't take up a huge percentage of your encumberance like a bunch of repair hammers would. It gives the player a means of keeping their weapon in fairly good working condition while out exploring in the wilderness, but you also retain a sense of realism, and it doesn't get in the way nearly as much.
However, there are some things that a whetstone simply cannot fix. Large dents in the blade being one example. Such damage to the weapon would be represented in the 2nd variable, which represents overall weapon... stability? (can't think of the word I wanted to use here) Anyway, restoring the 2nd variable would require one to take the blade to a blacksmith or, provided you have a high enough combined score in perhaps both your Blade skill and your Blacksmith crafting skill, you could repair it yourself at your own forge/anvil. (in theory, repairing your own blade should not be the only incentive for increasing your smithing skill, giving the player the ability to forge their own, unique weapons should also be an incentive as well.)
Anyway, the idea is simple: You give the player a means of quickly and efficiently repairing their weapons/equipment while on the go, but you also give them an incentive to either invest in increasing their smithing skill or to visit the blacksmith the next time they're in town. The solution is not nearly as invasive as repair hammers, in that you do not have to carry the equivalent of an entire forge's worth of tools on your back just to keep your weapon in usable condition, but neither does it negatively impact the amount of stuff that you can effectively carry (also, I also feel their implementation of encumberance is fundamentally flawed. Give the player the ability to carry an infinite amount of stuff, but decrease their speed and increase the rate at which they tire once their weight carried passes a certain limit, which would be determined through some sort of equation involving the player's endurance and strength skills). However, it also acts as a means of balancing repair. The whetstone is a "quick and dirty" solution to a larger problem. It's not overpowered in the sense that you cannot use the whetstone (a small, light object) to completely repair an item. Returning a weapon to 100% condition requires a combination of repairing the blade at a blacksmith, and using the whetstone to sharpen it. At the same time, you never have to completely deny the player access to their weapon simply because it is damaged. (Perhaps a weapons should shatter or something if the player exposes the damaged weapon to prolonged combat? I don't know, just random ideas popping into my head).
That's how I would approach the situation. I wouldn't view removing repair outright as the only viable solution. I would see how I could re-imagine the concept in a way that provides the player with incentive to invest time/money into developing a non-combat skill, while also retaining the sense of realism that weapon degradation provides, without making the solution extremely unrealistic, overpowered, or fatiguing, which is what I think I conceived of above. Although, the concept outlined above is extremely rough, and could definitely stand to be improved, but at least it's a start.
Sorry for the wall o' text, but once I get going I can't stop.
I'm sure something like Radiant AI would stress the CPU a fair bit, and It doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to me that they were unable to optimize it in time for the release of Oblivion, so it was stripped out.
I dunno, I didn't really care about Oblivion that much, and it wasn't because it lacked Radiant AI or anything, it just all felt... wrong. Between the level scaling, piss-poor storyline (once again, you're nothing more than an errand boy, there is absolutely nothing compelling about the story) and cookie-cutter dungeons it just felt inferior to the previous entries in the series. There weren't even very many easter eggs or cool, unique pieces of equipment to find in obscure parts of the dungeons. And then there was the extremely bland world.
The only thing Oblivion did right in my book was the Dark Brotherhood.
Morrowind is still my favorite in the series. While many skills were stripped from Daggerfall, they did it in a way that made Morrowind feel gimped. And the storyline was just great. You're the reincarnation of a warrior saint who goes around killing gods, far better than "Wut, I'm the emperor now? Okay, take me to my castle, errand boy!" and "Oh, I need you to go wander into this old ruin, face off an extremely powerful undead Lich, and obtain this crystal. What, why can't I do it? I'm too fucking important, and besides, I'm too much of a pussy anyways."
In Morrowind, you were the story, whereas in Oblivion you're just some escaped convict who happened to be there when the emperor died, so therefore you're obligated to at the very least follow his instructions, uttered mere moments before his death. But beyond that, I couldn't care less. There was nothing keeping me going, other than the fact that I wanted the achievements (yes, I played through Oblivion on Xbox 360 my first time through. The game utterly raped my computer at the time.)
At least with Skyrim, they're taking a few cues from Morrowind. For instance, you are once again the center of the storyline. And they're making some effort to make the world feel different, which is absolutely great. If I'm to spend several hundred hours backpacking around this country, they need to at least make it interesting.
I am a bit conflicted about the removal of weapon/equipment degradation. No, in it's current form, it offered absolutely nothing in terms of additional enjoyment. However, I think they approached it a bit like Bioware did with removing the Inventory in ME2.
"What? You guys didn't like the Inventory? Well then, let's just get rid of it completely!"
They should have looked at weapon degradation/repair and asked themselves how they could rework it to make it more interesting. Perhaps introduce 2 different variables? Maybe one which represents sharpness or something, which acted as a weapon efficiency modifier, and then a second variable that represented overall weapon condition, and which determined the weapons base damage. That would allow for an implementation of a whetstone, like Weenis recommended. The weapon dulls over time, it's only natural, but it's something that can be mended fairly quickly. A whetstone is small and relatively light, so it doesn't take up a huge percentage of your encumberance like a bunch of repair hammers would. It gives the player a means of keeping their weapon in fairly good working condition while out exploring in the wilderness, but you also retain a sense of realism, and it doesn't get in the way nearly as much.
However, there are some things that a whetstone simply cannot fix. Large dents in the blade being one example. Such damage to the weapon would be represented in the 2nd variable, which represents overall weapon... stability? (can't think of the word I wanted to use here) Anyway, restoring the 2nd variable would require one to take the blade to a blacksmith or, provided you have a high enough combined score in perhaps both your Blade skill and your Blacksmith crafting skill, you could repair it yourself at your own forge/anvil. (in theory, repairing your own blade should not be the only incentive for increasing your smithing skill, giving the player the ability to forge their own, unique weapons should also be an incentive as well.)
Anyway, the idea is simple: You give the player a means of quickly and efficiently repairing their weapons/equipment while on the go, but you also give them an incentive to either invest in increasing their smithing skill or to visit the blacksmith the next time they're in town. The solution is not nearly as invasive as repair hammers, in that you do not have to carry the equivalent of an entire forge's worth of tools on your back just to keep your weapon in usable condition, but neither does it negatively impact the amount of stuff that you can effectively carry (also, I also feel their implementation of encumberance is fundamentally flawed. Give the player the ability to carry an infinite amount of stuff, but decrease their speed and increase the rate at which they tire once their weight carried passes a certain limit, which would be determined through some sort of equation involving the player's endurance and strength skills). However, it also acts as a means of balancing repair. The whetstone is a "quick and dirty" solution to a larger problem. It's not overpowered in the sense that you cannot use the whetstone (a small, light object) to completely repair an item. Returning a weapon to 100% condition requires a combination of repairing the blade at a blacksmith, and using the whetstone to sharpen it. At the same time, you never have to completely deny the player access to their weapon simply because it is damaged. (Perhaps a weapons should shatter or something if the player exposes the damaged weapon to prolonged combat? I don't know, just random ideas popping into my head).
That's how I would approach the situation. I wouldn't view removing repair outright as the only viable solution. I would see how I could re-imagine the concept in a way that provides the player with incentive to invest time/money into developing a non-combat skill, while also retaining the sense of realism that weapon degradation provides, without making the solution extremely unrealistic, overpowered, or fatiguing, which is what I think I conceived of above. Although, the concept outlined above is extremely rough, and could definitely stand to be improved, but at least it's a start.
Sorry for the wall o' text, but once I get going I can't stop.
D
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I'd rather they would, there are some FO elements that are superior to TES games, specifically:
Lose the uber mage/fighter/thief bullshit. Specialization should lead to more specialization and high competency in a few areas (or the opposite, jack-of-all-trades, master of none). NV example: Perks & skills
Choice & consequences. You can be a member--and possibly the leader--of the mage, fighter and thieves guild?
Skills. I used to think the TES method was the bees knees, but really all it is is tedium. The idea of increasing in skill as you use it is a good one but the implementation sucks, particularly with infrequently used skills like lockpicking and combat magic. Your choices all suck: 1) The skill stays low, 2) You buy skill increases (uber lame) or 3) you do some repetitive and useless task over and over, like picking the same lock a hundred times or sneak/Q/run at a corner. NV: Goes back to the first point. skills & perks.
[edit] Forgot to mention, it sounds like they're moving that way already (at least with skills/perks/leveling), but we'll see.
I honestly think anyone would be highly disappointed if they go into Skyrim expecting in-depth choice & consequence. Bethesda just makes sandbox games with a few stats and they have more in common with GTA than an actual RPG. Like you mentioned, the difference in quality between Fallout 3 and New Vegas is pretty staggering and just goes to show how much better Obsidian understands the genre over Bethesda. And the fact that every preview event is just about raiding dungeons, the combat or the (totally not) random dragons (they're actually scripted 8) ) further reinforces the point.
This won't stop it from earning RPG of the Year All Years from every major gaming publication though.
Wizardhawk
Limp Gawd
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I've never understood the point in lockpicking even having a skill with points. My roommates a few years back all were absolutely awful at the lockpicking mini games in FO3 and Oblivion, but I could pick the locks and break a lockpick on maybe 1 out of 1000 attempts. It got so bad that every single time they got to a locked chest/door they just handed me the controller.
The only thing the skill actually does anything for though is if you just mash the autopick button, which is absolutely a waste of lockpicks IMO.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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Lockpicking doesn't have to be a broken mini-game.
It is more then them just removing features though, they are adding in a bunch of other ones as well so while we don't have as many skills or attributes as Oblivion had they kept the ones that made sense and added perks as pretty much a replacement, no grief from me there as it sounds much better. As for combat it also looks like a huge step up from stock Oblivion.
This game is still my most anticipated game of this year, so hopefully it doesn't disappoint.
This game is still my most anticipated game of this year, so hopefully it doesn't disappoint.
What looks like a step up? From all reports the melee combat still seems extremely one dimensional wishy washy swinging your weapon aroun dhittingi them til they die, with no regard for dodging, using moves, etc, aside from a simple block counter.
They also again have NO LOCATIONAL damage, which in this day and age, when a game is an ACTION[/B} rpg, is astoundingly stupid.
I mean what's the joy of using a bow, aiming it for headshots, etc if it counts the same as hitting someone in the toe???? IT's stupid, takes away fromt he entire POINT of player controlled combat.
They also again have NO LOCATIONAL damage, which in this day and age, when a game is an ACTION[/B} rpg, is astoundingly stupid.
I mean what's the joy of using a bow, aiming it for headshots, etc if it counts the same as hitting someone in the toe???? IT's stupid, takes away fromt he entire POINT of player controlled combat.
Where is the information that hitting them in the head doesn't make a difference?
I'd agree that's stupid, and they do need more inclusive combat systems. The combat does still look a little bland I'll agree.
As for the skill stuff.. again, smithing ruined some things in oblivion because it was a huge waste of space, and it jacked up that skill which skewed the leveling system.
I do think there should be consequences to your actions.. having unlimited strength to carry crap makes the game useless when you can guzzle potions or jam stimpacks in your arm....
Having to live with your choices makes things more fun, and more fun if you want to play the game a second or third time.. because then it truly is a different approach.
I still reallly like the whetstone + sharpening weapons idea I had. You could combine that with a forge for reforging weapons that are dented/chunked etc. But it poses the issue of things like hammers/maces that don't really lose effectiveness becuase they aren't sharp. they eventually just break, so it would kind of be neat in a way that those weapons had smaller drawbacks.. which some would argue imbalanced, but.. they are a ton heavier...
I like the things that make you think....... I'm playing DXHR right now and it pisses me off that I have limited inventory but at the same time it makes me appreciate the different weapons that way.
I think you have to gauge how "fun" things will be overall to the general audience... if you HAVE to repair.. and often..and it takes up a lot of stuff to do it... it feels more encumbering to the masses... while select people will enjoy it. If it's solid and founded in reality like say sharpening a weapon to keep an edge on it... most people wouldn't flip out because they arent carrying 40lbs of hammers and magically using them on the ground to repair a weapon to perfection...............which isn't realistic at all.
It's all about happy mediums... you sure as hell aren't fixing a bow with a hammer... to make it real and not cumbersome you'd have to include elements to reasonably work on other weapons and armor... hammers fixing leather armor?
That poses the issue of damn.. they have to implement a LOT of different things to make equipment degradation work and be realistic............. then you run into the "I can do it all" syndrome.. which is unrealistic when pushed too far.You always could have just thought of hammers as being a representation of whatever tools were necessary for specific repairs and that they just went with that system to keep from complicating the game with the 10 different versions. I would think that if enough people wanted a complex repair system, there would have been a mod made for it. I'm not 100% sure that it would be possible but I think it would be. If one exists I've never heard of it.
I don't particularly think the old system is great, and I don't really mind too much about the changes for Skyrim.
I don't particularly think the old system is great, and I don't really mind too much about the changes for Skyrim.
Wizardhawk
Limp Gawd
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It's all about happy mediums... you sure as hell aren't fixing a bow with a hammer... to make it real and not cumbersome you'd have to include elements to reasonably work on other weapons and armor... hammers fixing leather armor?
Toting around a whetstone and still having to spamclick your items every 30 seconds is no different than having 10 hammers and doing the same. The point is it was annoying to have to open your inventory every 2 or 3 badguys and "repair" stuff because you lost 10 damage on your sword and some armor.
As for the "I can do it all" syndrome, not everyone wants to have to play through the same set of sidequests over and over just so that they can cast spells instead of use a sword, and then again when they want an assassin, and a 4th time to use a bow.
Saying it ruins the game for it to be possible to just have 1 char is like saying fast travel breaks the game... nothing forces you to use it or play that way if you don't want to...
Edit: Not saying that hammers or repairing stuff annoyed me in Oblivion. It was a minor inconvenience that just didn't happen to add anything to the game for me. My second playthrough was as an arch-mage type char anyways so I never even needed to repair.
I don't think you read my original post about it. I'm more or less saying it should be something like every 20-30 battles.. or maybe a little less. Something that doesn't get in the way of your gameplay but adds a bit of realism
Wizardhawk
Limp Gawd
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I just don't think it adds much realism unless they were willing to spend a good amount of time/thought/effort into making a solid system for people who want to repair their own equipment.
Although, if it was kept somewhat the same as oblivion or something but not required as frequently (sure, swords didnt' break after 2 or 3 fights, but they lost damage as their durability went down, so if you didn't repair constantly then your daedric longsword hit for less than a dwarven weapon, etc.) then it wouldn't be too bad.
I was indifferent to it though like I said, just viewed it as another little requirement (it wasn't hard to spam-repair items, took 2 seconds) like inventory management when you get near weight caps mid-dungeon.
Although, if it was kept somewhat the same as oblivion or something but not required as frequently (sure, swords didnt' break after 2 or 3 fights, but they lost damage as their durability went down, so if you didn't repair constantly then your daedric longsword hit for less than a dwarven weapon, etc.) then it wouldn't be too bad.
I was indifferent to it though like I said, just viewed it as another little requirement (it wasn't hard to spam-repair items, took 2 seconds) like inventory management when you get near weight caps mid-dungeon.
fattypants
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2010
- Messages
- 3,284
I got to play it for a few minutes at PAX (as well as observe it quite a bit during the two hours I waited in line).
Animations are as stiff and unnatural as ever. Snow and ugly dirt was used extensively to hide low res terrain textures and anemic plant detail on landscapes.
As I approached a peak, a green-blue progress bar appeared on the screen and everything in my vision faded into a blue blur. Noticing my confusion, a booth worker informed me that it was how the game handled map streaming--it blurs out the screen while it loads the map so you don't see textures and geometry popping in.
The graphics are passable, but you'd think the professionals working in a high-budget game studio could produce something at least on par with what Oblivion modders produce from their man caves.
Shadows were terrible...very blocky and they jumped around wildly even when nothing was moving. Framerate took tremendous drops at times, too. I watched one girl's framerate drop to the single digits for about three minutes.
I like the streamlined inventory system and no weapon degradation. Voice acting, music, and sound design was also very good. And the characters finally don't look unrealistic and fugly.
Animations are as stiff and unnatural as ever. Snow and ugly dirt was used extensively to hide low res terrain textures and anemic plant detail on landscapes.
As I approached a peak, a green-blue progress bar appeared on the screen and everything in my vision faded into a blue blur. Noticing my confusion, a booth worker informed me that it was how the game handled map streaming--it blurs out the screen while it loads the map so you don't see textures and geometry popping in.
The graphics are passable, but you'd think the professionals working in a high-budget game studio could produce something at least on par with what Oblivion modders produce from their man caves.
Shadows were terrible...very blocky and they jumped around wildly even when nothing was moving. Framerate took tremendous drops at times, too. I watched one girl's framerate drop to the single digits for about three minutes.
I like the streamlined inventory system and no weapon degradation. Voice acting, music, and sound design was also very good. And the characters finally don't look unrealistic and fugly.
Fading Phoenix
Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2006
- Messages
- 602
Note I said "at times". The only time I recall needing to give money to merchants in vanilla oblivion was to buy spells. I want to spend the money I make though, else what the hell is the reason of having it?
I also said I was a bit of a masochist in my oblivion. Starting my game is hard as hell for a very long time. You can carry very little and repair hammers are heavy, more expensive than normal, and break insanely easy when you're a novice/apprentice. So you end up spending an assload of money trying to repair your equipment on your own and getting frustrated all the while. Paying someone else to do it on the other hand, is actually easily affordable (unless you need to repair magical equipment, in which case the cost becomes insane). If you put in the time to level up your repair skill though, the rewards in the end can be very worth it. As another note, I do believe weapons and armor deteriorate more slowly in my game compared to vanilla oblivion, so they do at least last longer before needing repaired.
I also role play a bit more than most in Oblivion probably. I don't grind or spend the time to force my characters to level a certain way. I have the leveling adjusted so that you level as you play to the way you play. I have a mage character who has on occasion worn some special armors or used a magical blade, yet has absolutely no armorer skill worth speaking of. So she pays.
Through all this though I do agree, the mechanics of the entire system could have easily been exanded on, and should have at the very least been adjusted/changed. But really it was a simple game to begin with, and it was just another simple mechanic added on. If I had never played anything other than vanilla oblivion I doubt I would care that it's gone. I'm not sure if I care as it is; but with my game set up the way it is, I simply prefer having it in there.
Viper87227
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,017
What did you plan it on? Hopefully a console...
Almost a guaranteed certainty I would think.
Wizardhawk
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2005
- Messages
- 257
I didn't play NV but from everything I read all they did was take the cussing from FO3 and take it to the extreme. Sorry, I don't consider a good rpg to be reading as much cursing as possible.
Viper87227
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,017
Part of me wants to be really optimistic and hope that the PC version will be far ahead of the console version... but I'm worried that we haven't seen it yet.
I'll buy it either way though. If Bethesda drops the ball, modders will take care of it quickly.
I'm not simply because this is the way it usually is: We see a bunch of console footage and pics pretty much right up closely to the time the game launches and then suddenly a few outlets will finally do some dedicated PC write up and show us something.
Nothing's going to stop me.
That's why I'm not worried about although to be fair in the past vanilla Oblivion and Morrowind came out and were... IMO...fairly ahead of their console bretheren right off the bat.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2009
- Messages
- 18,416
Not sure where you got this from, but that's just incorrect.