EKWB Lays Off 25% of Workforce, Blames Lower Watercooling Sales

[NamelessPFG]

I remember that about a decade ago, I could hop on eBay and snag a brand new XSPC dual D5 bay res/240mm rad + fans/Raystorm Copper block/compression fitting/tubing kit for all of $175, most of which is actually pretty decent kit (except the compression fittings, they're horrible to try and thread the ring onto the barb with, just buy Bitspower and save yourself the pain and hours of frustration). Those days have long passed.

I thought EK was kinda pricey back then, and the nickel plating issues were in full swing then, so I knew to steer well clear. Even now, I'm a bit hesitant to buy their stuff, even if everyone else making an O11D XL front distro plate is charging about as much or moreso.

That said, while water-cooling costs a lot up front, you can generally carry most of your components forward with new builds. Radiators, pumps, fittings, tubing - it's not like those change on a regular basis, and even CPU blocks can often be adapted to newer sockets with some new mounting hardware. The only reason I'm buying extra stuff now is that I want to get a dual 360mm rad setup in my O11D XL (while keeping my old HW Labs Black Ice GTX 360 in my 800D that's about to house a Threadripper 1950X build) and also need a new res/pump combo that doesn't rely on now-nonexistent 5.25" bay mounting.

The one exception: GPU blocks. Their pricing in particular is especially insane when those don't carry over to new purchases like CPU blocks do. I was looking at waterblocking my RX 7900 XTX to get around the vapor chamber issue, but at $230+, I could've just returned it, got an RTX 4080 for the extra price, and enjoyed far better VR performance. (I actually wound up doing a direct trade for someone who was willing to waterblock it, and it's apparently running like a champ, over 3 GHz easy.)

The other exception: I generally favored 5.25" bay reservoir/pump units in the past, but modern cases give me nowhere to mount them. Now I can look at spending ridiculous sums on what are essentially thin reservoirs that mount where a radiator would, especially if they've got enough inlet/outlet ports to be billed as distro plates, double especially if they're meant to replace the O11D XL's front glass panel.

 

[lopoetve]

I've also never seriously considered Corsairs reasonably new line of custom loop products, but I guess I could be persuaded to try them at some point.

I have a full loop from them - its just rebranded HWLabs and someone elses block. It works just fine. I got it off someone here who (mid-2020) needed to sell it ASAP as he'd lost his job, and I was planning a custom loop anyway. No complaints - works fine.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

The only product I would try of theirs is the radiators because they're just rebranded HWlabs L series which are extremely solid. Then again, why would I pay the Corsair tax when I can just get an L series directly for less...

The only reason I would consider Corsair is for their over the top excellent customer service.

I remember several years ago when AIO's where new and one of them (an H80 if I recall) failed on a forum member in here.

They took care of him, and cut him a check to replace all of his soaked components. I was impressed. There was no deflection or finger pointing. They just did the right thing and did it fast.

For this reason I have bought from Corsair for years, but I haven't tried their custom loop parts yet. If their customer service is still as excellent as it was, it is a good reason to pay a little bit of a premium to buy their stuff.

 

[lopoetve]

I remember that about a decade ago, I could hop on eBay and snag a brand new XSPC dual D5 bay res/240mm rad + fans/Raystorm Copper block/compression fitting/tubing kit for all of $175, most of which is actually pretty decent kit (except the compression fittings, they're horrible to try and thread the ring onto the barb with, just buy Bitspower and save yourself the pain and hours of frustration). Those days have long passed.

I thought EK was kinda pricey back then, and the nickel plating issues were in full swing then, so I knew to steer well clear. Even now, I'm a bit hesitant to buy their stuff, even if everyone else making an O11D XL front distro plate is charging about as much or moreso.

That said, while water-cooling costs a lot up front, you can generally carry most of your components forward with new builds. Radiators, pumps, fittings, tubing - it's not like those change on a regular basis, and even CPU blocks can often be adapted to newer sockets with some new mounting hardware. The only reason I'm buying extra stuff now is that I want to get a dual 360mm rad setup in my O11D XL (while keeping my old HW Labs Black Ice GTX 360 in my 800D that's about to house a Threadripper 1950X build) and also need a new res/pump combo that doesn't rely on now-nonexistent 5.25" bay mounting.

The one exception: GPU blocks. Their pricing in particular is especially insane when those don't carry over to new purchases like CPU blocks do. I was looking at waterblocking my RX 7900 XTX to get around the vapor chamber issue, but at $230+, I could've just returned it, got an RTX 4080 for the extra price, and enjoyed far better VR performance. (I actually wound up doing a direct trade for someone who was willing to waterblock it, and it's apparently running like a champ, over 3 GHz easy.)

The other exception: I generally favored 5.25" bay reservoir/pump units in the past, but modern cases give me nowhere to mount them. Now I can look at spending ridiculous sums on what are essentially thin reservoirs that mount where a radiator would, especially if they've got enough inlet/outlet ports to be billed as distro plates, double especially if they're meant to replace the O11D XL's front glass panel.

Or get a tube res and have to figure out where/how to mount it - that's the one thing corsair makes easy, as it's designed to mount directly to their fans. Not sure on the others tbh.

 

[NightReaver]

Just install a D5/DDC remotely from literally any reservoir. Cheaper and better performance than any distro plate. Unless you're going for the "bling" look. Can't help you there, that stuff disgusts me nowadays.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Just install a D5/DDC remotely from literally any reservoir. Cheaper and better performance than any distro plate. Unless you're going for the "bling" look. Can't help you there, that stuff disgusts me nowadays.

Yeah, distribution plates are for looks only.

They actually slow down the flow rate over the components since there are parallel routes, and when flow is lower over a block, temps are higher.

I can understand that some are in the hobby for looks, and a distribution plates is probably fine for them, but I am an all go no show water cooling builder, and because of that I'll never use one.

 

[xDiVolatilX]

Yea I did/would always choose to install a radiator in place of a distro plate. Heck if I didn't need the jet plates I would remove them for better flow but I don't want to even experiment with them off because I'm certain the CPU and GPU temps are more even with the jet plates.

 

[NamelessPFG]

Or get a tube res and have to figure out where/how to mount it - that's the one thing corsair makes easy, as it's designed to mount directly to their fans. Not sure on the others tbh.

My main concern with those is that they'd be on the rather large side, and fitment will be tricky unless I take out those block-off/2.5" drive mounting plates on the O11D XL's side that divide the two compartments (and also mark the mounting location for side intake fans/another 360mm rad). When the tube's about the diameter of the D5 pump it's sitting on, it's pretty huge.

If I keep the pump/res sitting upright entirely in the main compartment, it'll require quite the tuck up front to minimize losses in expansion card length clearance. Zotac slapped a stupid huge heatsink on this RTX 4080, just like every other AIB 4080/4090 offering that's trying to set records on overall card size. (That's arguably a reason to waterblock it right there, since you already know my stance on PCIe slots and wanting to use them, but the only block I recall for Zotac cards off the top of my head would be the pricey EK ones.)

A thinner reservoir with the pump mounted on the side would make more efficient use of case space, but I can't bring myself to spend $200+ for a few pieces of sandwiched, machined acrylic with some O-rings in between. EK must have some ludicrous profit margins on those things, even budgeting for the included pump.

Right now, my stopgap approach is to actually just have the same old dual 5.25" bay res/pump unit sitting right at the bottom, which doesn't impede any cards I have installed, but does impede my plans to put another 360mm radiator and fans at the bottom.

Yeah, distribution plates are for looks only.

They actually slow down the flow rate over the components since there are parallel routes, and when flow is lower over a block, temps are higher.

I can understand that some are in the hobby for looks, and a distribution plates is probably fine for them, but I am an all go no show water cooling builder, and because of that I'll never use one.

I was under the impression that a properly designed distro plate runs in series, not parallel, but any significant restrictions in flow rate are a bad sign regardless.

Sure, it looks cool, but I'm not spending all this money on water-cooling just to show off.

I'm doing it because it performs far better than any heatsink I've ever had when I'm overclocking my stuff to the limit, without the need to ramp up fan speeds nearly as much to keep those temps low, and it makes everything around the CPU socket so much easier to access (especially RAM). Once it's all set up, it's hard to go back.

 

[NightReaver]

My main concern with those is that they'd be on the rather large side, and fitment will be tricky unless I take out those block-off/2.5" drive mounting plates on the O11D XL's side that divide the two compartments (and also mark the mounting location for side intake fans/another 360mm rad). When the tube's about the diameter of the D5 pump it's sitting on, it's pretty huge.

If I keep the pump/res sitting upright entirely in the main compartment, it'll require quite the tuck up front to minimize losses in expansion card length clearance. Zotac slapped a stupid huge heatsink on this RTX 4080, just like every other AIB 4080/4090 offering that's trying to set records on overall card size. (That's arguably a reason to waterblock it right there, since you already know my stance on PCIe slots and wanting to use them, but the only block I recall for Zotac cards off the top of my head would be the pricey EK ones.)

A thinner reservoir with the pump mounted on the side would make more efficient use of case space, but I can't bring myself to spend $200+ for a few pieces of sandwiched, machined acrylic with some O-rings in between. EK must have some ludicrous profit margins on those things, even budgeting for the included pump.

Right now, my stopgap approach is to actually just have the same old dual 5.25" bay res/pump unit sitting right at the bottom, which doesn't impede any cards I have installed, but does impede my plans to put another 360mm radiator and fans at the bottom.


I was under the impression that a properly designed distro plate runs in series, not parallel, but any significant restrictions in flow rate are a bad sign regardless.

Sure, it looks cool, but I'm not spending all this money on water-cooling just to show off.

I'm doing it because it performs far better than any heatsink I've ever had when I'm overclocking my stuff to the limit, without the need to ramp up fan speeds nearly as much to keep those temps low, and it makes everything around the CPU socket so much easier to access (especially RAM). Once it's all set up, it's hard to go back.

If you want, could make a thread over in the WC subforum and post some pics of what you're working with for better reference. I was just in the same situation as you: replacing a dual bay/res/pump unit. Might be easier to see how much space you're working with.

 

[D-EJ915]

EK innovates the market for O11 dynamic hotbox aesthetic computers that have horrible loop performance lol. They're like gold plated shit as far as water cooling brands go. Maybe their sales are going down because people are finally catching on. Reading about peoples constant problems with their loops with EK parts and cryofuel makes you really question them.

I figured I'd give them another chance since only they and phanteks had a 3090 aorus xtreme block out, EK one the backplate doesn't fit properly lol so yeah nice failure there on their part so I think I'll pass on them again now lol.

In addition to Zarathustra's list it's a shame XSPC isn't a bigger player these days their stuff is always solid.

The only reason I would consider Corsair is for their over the top excellent customer service.

I remember several years ago when AIO's where new and one of them (an H80 if I recall) failed on a forum member in here.

They took care of him, and cut him a check to replace all of his soaked components. I was impressed. There was no deflection or finger pointing. They just did the right thing and did it fast.

For this reason I have bought from Corsair for years, but I haven't tried their custom loop parts yet. If their customer service is still as excellent as it was, it is a good reason to pay a little bit of a premium to buy their stuff.

Always nicer to buy from a place like PPCS that will support you no matter what you get though IMO. I'm not super into supporting places that rebrand and double the price even if their support is decent.

 

[xDiVolatilX]

EK innovates the market for O11 dynamic hotbox aesthetic computers that have horrible loop performance lol. They're like gold plated shit as far as water cooling brands go. Maybe their sales are going down because people are finally catching on. Reading about peoples constant problems with their loops with EK parts and cryofuel makes you really question them.

I figured I'd give them another chance since only they and phanteks had a 3090 aorus xtreme block out, EK one the backplate doesn't fit properly lol so yeah nice failure there on their part so I think I'll pass on them again now lol.

In addition to Zarathustra's list it's a shame XSPC isn't a bigger player these days their stuff is always solid.


Always nicer to buy from a place like PPCS that will support you no matter what you get though IMO. I'm not super into supporting places that rebrand and double the price even if their support is decent.

Interesting. I've had 6 blocks from EK and 2 reservoirs and a few pumps and I all of them have been perfect. Especially the blocks look perfect after years of use with the Cryofuel. Can't complain at all.

 

[D-EJ915]

Interesting. I've had 6 blocks from EK and 2 reservoirs and a few pumps and I all of them have been perfect. Especially the blocks look perfect after years of use with the Cryofuel. Can't complain at all.

A lot of us have been water cooling for 15+ years so we've seen a lot from all of these brands.

 

[NightReaver]

A lot of us have been water cooling for 15+ years so we've seen a lot from all of these brands.

Yup. I own parts from so many different brands. Probably have at least 1 of something form just about everyone. EK, Bitspower, XSPC, Bykski, Barrow, Koolance, etc. Even one of those swiftech open loop AIO things. I'm open to literally any company. Just make the thing I need for a reasonable price.

As far as customer service goes, I think the only time I ever needed it was getting some spare o-rings for my 1080ti waterblock. Think it was an EK. The best customer service is the customer service I never need to use as far as fixing faults goes. Maybe I'm just super lucky lol.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

EK innovates the market for O11 dynamic hotbox aesthetic computers that have horrible loop performance lol. They're like gold plated shit as far as water cooling brands go. Maybe their sales are going down because people are finally catching on. Reading about peoples constant problems with their loops with EK parts and cryofuel makes you really question them.

I figured I'd give them another chance since only they and phanteks had a 3090 aorus xtreme block out, EK one the backplate doesn't fit properly lol so yeah nice failure there on their part so I think I'll pass on them again now lol.

In addition to Zarathustra's list it's a shame XSPC isn't a bigger player these days their stuff is always solid.


Always nicer to buy from a place like PPCS that will support you no matter what you get though IMO. I'm not super into supporting places that rebrand and double the price even if their support is decent.

I didn't realize PPCS had such a good reputation. I've bought from them several times but never had to contact custo.er support.

 

[Sir Beregond]

I didn't realize PPCS had such a good reputation. I've bought from them several times but never had to contact custo.er support.

PPCs really got bigger after FrozenCPU went down the crapper around the beginning of 2015.

 

[mkppo]

Man I wish heatkiller launched their blocks a bit sooner. Their build quality is so far above EK that it's strange how they don't sell more than they do (I guess regional availability plays a part). Also maybe cos they don't make stuff filled to the brim with RGB lights.

Their rads are also better looking and performing than EK, and for my fan speed it's the best on the market regardless of thickness.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Man I wish heatkiller launched their blocks a bit sooner. Their build quality is so far above EK that it's strange how they don't sell more than they do (I guess regional availability plays a part). Also maybe cos they don't make stuff filled to the brim with RGB lights.

Their rads are also better looking and performing than EK, and for my fan speed it's the best on the market regardless of thickness.

I couldn't agree more.

Watercools Heatkiller series has MUCH better build quality than EK, and sells for less money. (An EK CPU block is up to like $300 now, whereas Watercool still sells theirs for under 100 Euro)

I think what holds them back is the time to market. Those of us who build water loops tend to want the latest and greatest stuff like yesterday. We don't want to be waiting around for a compatible block.

That and EK has Fullcover GPU blocks for most AIB's, which Watercool just can't match. You are pretty much dealing with one - three different blocks. One for the FE/OE board, and if you are lucky ones for one or two of the biggest brands custom boards, and that's it.

If I could always find a Watercool Heatkiller block for the parts I buy when I buy them, I'd buy nothing else.

 

[AlexisRO]

Agree on Watercools quality. What really let's them down in capturing more market share is that they are later to most hardware launches and as said not enough variety for GPUs especially.

Heck once i got my 3080TI FTW was waiting on them to launch their block. At some point i contacted support and they gave me a vague date on the availability. Basically i was forced to go to EK for the block. The heatkiller block came in ~6 months later after i got my card and around 10-11 months. If i'm tacking into acount that the PCB desing was the same as the normal 3080 it's even more time....

 

[vegeta535]

PPCS is a great company that took care of me when I had issues. They just need a entire over haul of their website.

 

[hititnquitit]

Heatkiller is the only company I'll go with for CPU blocks.

There used to be a rep, Watercool-Jakob at ocforum that would answer questions and make product announcements etc about their Heatkiller gear. The slow to market questions were always one of the most frequently asked. His response was always along the lines of, they didn't have the resources to complete their blocks as quickly as the competition but if you were patient, they would have something incredible for you soon!

He hasn't posted anything there since November 2020. They updated their cnc capabilities with 2 new machines. Then shortly thereafter they redesigned their website. Then he disappeared.

Another forum community contact gone. Probably moved over to the more popular forms of social media, who knows.

 

[hititnquitit]

PPCS is a great company that took care of me when I had issues. They just need a entire over haul of their website.

Yes indeed, they have excellent CS.
Ugh the website...it's slooowly gotten a tiny bit better since they redesigned it but I still wont/cant go there on my phone. Slideshow doesn't do it justice haha.

 

[kamikazi]

Yes indeed, they have excellent CS.
Ugh the website...it's slooowly gotten a tiny bit better since they redesigned it but I still wont/cant go there on my phone. Slideshow doesn't do it justice haha.

Yep, I always look there for stuff first and they almost always have it, but yeah, the site is S-L-O-W. I'll still give them my money though.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

That said, while water-cooling costs a lot up front, you can generally carry most of your components forward with new builds. Radiators, pumps, fittings, tubing - it's not like those change on a regular basis, and even CPU blocks can often be adapted to newer sockets with some new mounting hardware. The only reason I'm buying extra stuff now is that I want to get a dual 360mm rad setup in my O11D XL (while keeping my old HW Labs Black Ice GTX 360 in my 800D that's about to house a Threadripper 1950X build) and also need a new res/pump combo that doesn't rely on now-nonexistent 5.25" bay mounting.

Yeah, Alphacool had a system there for a while with a reusable block that you bought modular mounting kits for for different GPU's and could reuse the block itself. These weren't just core blocks, but the mounting kit came with a full solution that screwed into the block to cover the RAM and other parts, so it turned it into a semi-fullcover block. So when you upgraded your GPU you could keep the block, and just replace the mounting kit for one that covers the RAM and VRM of the new GPU.

Last I checked I don't think they were selling it anymore. (though maybe I am wrong, their website is a little difficult to navigate) It's a shame, but then again, I never bought one, so I might be part of the problem. They were a little clunky. In our modern era of sleek and RGB the everything, they were never going to be a pretty solution. That, and I remember thinking they might not hold up compared to a custom fullcover block. I figured the core itself would be fine, but maybe the cooling for the RAM and other treatments wouldn't be as effective.

So, yeah, you are going to wind up buying a new fullcover block for everything else. Almost everything else will be reusable, at least for a couple of generations (unless you go off the reservation and buy something like a Threadripper which is too big for a traditional block)

Due to the ever increasing difficulty of finding my ideal platform that excels at everything, I have recently been thinking about keeping my workstation on my Threadripper platform, and getting a dedicated cheaper gaming platform I upgrade more often. I wanted to have the best of both worlds, all in one, but that just doesn't seem to be possible anymore like it was back when I built my i7-3930k in 2011. These days I have to choose. Either a system with more PCIe lanes on an aging architecture (and way more cores than I need) or a system with just barely enough PCIe lanes for a GPU and a couple of NVMe drives but the fastest per core speeds.

I've always been a fan of the "one system to rule them all" principle, but that just doesn't seem to work anymore.

So, as part of this, I've been casually looking at latest gen Intel and AMD consumer platforms for my dedicated game machine, and I ahve found that sadly my old EK Supremacy EVO CPU block I used on my i7-3930k no longer works on modern sockets (at least without some customization, which is risky.)

While it launched during the AM2 era, it was fine up through AM4, but when AM% made the CPU backplate non-removable, that was the end of the line for it on AMD. The end of the line seems to have come sooner on the Intel side, but I have fewer details, because I have lost track of the many cooler solutions for Intel since we just had Socket 1155 and Socket 2011 to worry about. I just haven't kept up.

It's a shame, because despite EK getting a bad name back then because of the nickel issues, this was a really good block, and it worked well for me.

Here it is after I disassembled the loop which was running for 3 years, still in perfect shape and really clean:

Most of what you see there is just surface tension holding some of the DI water I used to flush it out with between the fins, not gunk.

I wasn't religious about replacing the coolant either. First two years was the same coolant, old EK "Ekoolant". Then when I decided it was time to flush and replace it, they had switched over to their new "Cryofuel", so the last year was with that.

Not sure what the difference was, but it did smell different, and the new one claims to be biodegradable, where the old one didn't, so I presume the formulation changed.

I looked at EK's website and their new CPU blocks are all like $300, which is ridiculous. Luckily Watercool still sells quality Heatkiller blocks for new CPU's for less than €100. I tend to prefer Watercool these days anyway. Better build quality AND a better price is my favorite combination

But yeah, in general, a lot of the stuff in a water loop is completely reusable. Bends, fittings, tubing, radiators, pumps, reservoirs, etc.

The GPU block will need to be replaced every time you replace the GPU though, and the CPU block maybe every 2-3 generations when the manufacturer EOL's it and stops selling new mounting kits for new sockets.

Once you start adding it up, you'd be surprised how large a percentage of the cost of parts is reusable though. When building a loop most people factor in the big items in their budget. The blocks, the radiators, even the reservoirs and pumps. The budget killer is usually all the other stuff you hadn't through about. How many fittings and bends you need, etc.


The blocks may be the highest individual ticket items, but they don't make up the majority of the cost of the loop. ( At least they didn't before EK doubled down on crazy block pricing. )

 

[kamikazi]

Yeah, Alphacool had a system there for a while with a reusable block that you bought modular mounting kits for for different GPU's and could reuse the block itself. These weren't just core blocks, but the mounting kit came with a full solution that screwed into the block to cover the RAM and other parts, so it turned it into a semi-fullcover block. So when you upgraded your GPU you could keep the block, and just replace the mounting kit for one that covers the RAM and VRM of the new GPU.

Last I checked I don't think they were selling it anymore. (though maybe I am wrong, their website is a little difficult to navigate) It's a shame, but then again, I never bought one, so I might be part of the problem. They were a little clunky. In our modern era of sleek and RGB the everything, they were never going to be a pretty solution. That, and I remember thinking they might not hold up compared to a custom fullcover block. I figured the core itself would be fine, but maybe the cooling for the RAM and other treatments wouldn't be as effective.

So, yeah, you are going to wind up buying a new fullcover block for everything else. Almost everything else will be reusable, at least for a couple of generations (unless you go off the reservation and buy something like a Threadripper which is too big for a traditional block)

Due to the ever increasing difficulty of finding my ideal platform that excels at everything, I have recently been thinking about keeping my workstation on my Threadripper platform, and getting a dedicated cheaper gaming platform I upgrade more often. I wanted to have the best of both worlds, all in one, but that just doesn't seem to be possible anymore like it was back when I built my i7-3930k in 2011. These days I have to choose. Either a system with more PCIe lanes on an aging architecture (and way more cores than I need) or a system with just barely enough PCIe lanes for a GPU and a couple of NVMe drives but the fastest per core speeds.

I've always been a fan of the "one system to rule them all" principle, but that just doesn't seem to work anymore.

So, as part of this, I've been casually looking at latest gen Intel and AMD consumer platforms for my dedicated game machine, and I ahve found that sadly my old EK Supremacy EVO CPU block I used on my i7-3930k no longer works on modern sockets (at least without some customization, which is risky.)

While it launched during the AM2 era, it was fine up through AM4, but when AM% made the CPU backplate non-removable, that was the end of the line for it on AMD. The end of the line seems to have come sooner on the Intel side, but I have fewer details, because I have lost track of the many cooler solutions for Intel since we just had Socket 1155 and Socket 2011 to worry about. I just haven't kept up.

It's a shame, because despite EK getting a bad name back then because of the nickel issues, this was a really good block, and it worked well for me.

Here it is after I disassembled the loop which was running for 3 years, still in perfect shape and really clean:

Most of what you see there is just surface tension holding some of the DI water I used to flush it out with between the fins, not gunk.

I wasn't religious about replacing the coolant either. First two years was the same coolant, old EK "Ekoolant". Then when I decided it was time to flush and replace it, they had switched over to their new "Cryofuel", so the last year was with that.

Not sure what the difference was, but it did smell different, and the new one claims to be biodegradable, where the old one didn't, so I presume the formulation changed.

I looked at EK's website and their new CPU blocks are all like $300, which is ridiculous. Luckily Watercool still sells quality Heatkiller blocks for new CPU's for less than €100. I tend to prefer Watercool these days anyway. Better build quality AND a better price is my favorite combination

But yeah, in general, a lot of the stuff in a water loop is completely reusable. Bends, fittings, tubing, radiators, pumps, reservoirs, etc.

The GPU block will need to be replaced every time you replace the GPU though, and the CPU block maybe every 2-3 generations when the manufacturer EOL's it and stops selling new mounting kits for new sockets.

Once you start adding it up, you'd be surprised how large a percentage of the cost of parts is reusable though. When building a loop most people factor in the big items in their budget. The blocks, the radiators, even the reservoirs and pumps. The budget killer is usually all the other stuff you hadn't through about. How many fittings and bends you need, etc.


The blocks may be the highest individual ticket items, but they don't make up the majority of the cost of the loop. ( At least they didn't before EK doubled down on crazy block pricing. )

I'm no EK bootlicker, but I was browsing just to see if you can convert AM4 blocks to work on AM5. You can, they sell the conversion studs for $3.99. I actually just ordered some since I have a Velocity AM4 block and who knows, I may get the urge in the next year or so. Who knows if they will still be available.

They also have Velocity2 blocks for AM5 for $136.99. Now, shipping costs are high though and you'd be better served to buy them from Performance PC for the same price and not pay crazy shipping.

 

[xDiVolatilX]

I'm not sure there has been much in the way of innovation in water blocks in over a decade.

All EK has done is to add sprinkling of clear plastic and RGB LEDs and slap a second block on the back of the board.

Not sure I'd call that innovation as much as it is grasping at straws.

All the real innovation in water blocks, optimizing flow patterns etc. happened more than a decade ago at this point.

In fact, EK really messed up here, because they tried to use a much too small fin design on their first gen Threadrippers blocks, trying to copy and paste their small CPU designs to Threadrippers without scaling them up like others (Watercool Heakiller) did.

I prefer Watercool because EK has shown us how they will behave when they have a failure in the field, with their bad nickel coats years ago, and the response was not good, blaming others, deflecting and not taking care of their customers.

I'd probably rank the block makers on the market like this:

Watercool > Alphacool > EK.

I would love to buy Koolance and Swiftech blocks. They were huge in the early days of water-cooling, but they seem to have mostly fallen by the wayside in recent years.

That's the order I go shopping in when I need a block.

My Threadripper block is a Watercool Heakiller. I've never actually bought an Alphacool block, but I have considered it on several occasions. EK winds up being the last resort when I can't find a compatible block. As I have mentioned before, I am unwilling to go with Chinese brands for many reasons.

I've also never seriously considered Corsairs reasonably new line of custom loop products, but I guess I could be persuaded to try them at some point.

I mean they are at the forefront of every new platform support for basically all the new hardware you would want or need. Yea they are pricey but quality, construction, availability, and support and top notch. Other brands are good too sure. But EK is the best overall in my opinion. A well rounded route to go down I know I'll have fantastic products, supply, and support. I haven't had any issue with EK for over 10 years. I'm sure I won't have any for another 10 they are rock solid.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I'm no EK bootlicker, but I was browsing just to see if you can convert AM4 blocks to work on AM5. You can, they sell the conversion studs for $3.99. I actually just ordered some since I have a Velocity AM4 block and who knows, I may get the urge in the next year or so. Who knows if they will still be available.
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Thanks for that reference. I didn't find anything like htis in my search, but maybe that was because I was specifically searching for parts that were for the old Supremacy EVO block. These look like they are designed for their Velocity range. It is unclear to me if they are significantly universal to try on the old Supremacy EVO block, but at $3.99 I'm willing to give them a try.

 

[kamikazi]

Thanks for that reference. I didn't find anything like htis in my search, but maybe that was because I was specifically searching for parts that were for the old Supremacy EVO block. These look like they are designed for their Velocity range. It is unclear to me if they are significantly universal to try on the old Supremacy EVO block, but at $3.99 I'm willing to give them a try.

Yeah, that may be a bridge block too far. However, if the Supremacy fit AM4, then wouldn't it just come down to Z height as being the limiting factor? Good luck! Then again, I guess the Velocity and Supremacy weren't exactly designed for the AM5 chip layout, so we would both be using basically a universal block by going with the older stuff. EK's actual designed for AM5 stuff is $240 though. I doubt the difference in temps would justify the cost.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Yeah, that may be a bridge block too far. However, if the Supremacy fit AM4, then wouldn't it just come down to Z height as being the limiting factor? Good luck! Then again, I guess the Velocity and Supremacy weren't exactly designed for the AM5 chip layout, so we would both be using basically a universal block by going with the older stuff. EK's actual designed for AM5 stuff is $240 though. I doubt the difference in temps would justify the cost.

The EK Supremacy EVO was kind of cool in that it came with three different jet plates that you could install in the block depending on which CPU it was going on. No idwa which (if any) would be the best for AM5, but considering overclocking is mostly dead, it doesn't really matter that much. Any of the configurations will be better than an air cooler.

 

[kamikazi]

The EK Supremacy EVO was kind of cool in that it came with three different jet plates that you could install in the block depending on which CPU it was going on. No idwa which (if any) would be the best for AM5, but considering overclocking is mostly dead, it doesn't really matter that much. Any of the configurations will be better than an air cooler.

According to this: https://www.ekwb.com/news/ek-shares-the-am5-compatibility-roadmap-for-all-cpu-cooling-products/, there should be a conversion kit for the supremacy available on ek's website. It's further down on the page. Maybe this: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/mounting-plate-supremacy-amd-black plus the studs I linked earlier?

This too? https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-supremacy-evo-backplate-lga-115x-am4

 

[Ripskin]

My upgrade cycle went to crap when parts prices went through the roof and were never available so I am snug with what I have for another 2 years likely. Maybe more. EK would have had some more referrals from me but they decided to downsize the aluminum line which had great performance at a good price. Unless there are more parts and things in that range I dont know if I will be able to justify full water again.

 

[NamelessPFG]

Yeah, Alphacool had a system there for a while with a reusable block that you bought modular mounting kits for for different GPU's and could reuse the block itself. These weren't just core blocks, but the mounting kit came with a full solution that screwed into the block to cover the RAM and other parts, so it turned it into a semi-fullcover block. So when you upgraded your GPU you could keep the block, and just replace the mounting kit for one that covers the RAM and VRM of the new GPU.

Last I checked I don't think they were selling it anymore. (though maybe I am wrong, their website is a little difficult to navigate) It's a shame, but then again, I never bought one, so I might be part of the problem. They were a little clunky. In our modern era of sleek and RGB the everything, they were never going to be a pretty solution. That, and I remember thinking they might not hold up compared to a custom fullcover block. I figured the core itself would be fine, but maybe the cooling for the RAM and other treatments wouldn't be as effective.

So, yeah, you are going to wind up buying a new fullcover block for everything else. Almost everything else will be reusable, at least for a couple of generations (unless you go off the reservation and buy something like a Threadripper which is too big for a traditional block)

Due to the ever increasing difficulty of finding my ideal platform that excels at everything, I have recently been thinking about keeping my workstation on my Threadripper platform, and getting a dedicated cheaper gaming platform I upgrade more often. I wanted to have the best of both worlds, all in one, but that just doesn't seem to be possible anymore like it was back when I built my i7-3930k in 2011. These days I have to choose. Either a system with more PCIe lanes on an aging architecture (and way more cores than I need) or a system with just barely enough PCIe lanes for a GPU and a couple of NVMe drives but the fastest per core speeds.

I've always been a fan of the "one system to rule them all" principle, but that just doesn't seem to work anymore.

So, as part of this, I've been casually looking at latest gen Intel and AMD consumer platforms for my dedicated game machine, and I ahve found that sadly my old EK Supremacy EVO CPU block I used on my i7-3930k no longer works on modern sockets (at least without some customization, which is risky.)

While it launched during the AM2 era, it was fine up through AM4, but when AM% made the CPU backplate non-removable, that was the end of the line for it on AMD. The end of the line seems to have come sooner on the Intel side, but I have fewer details, because I have lost track of the many cooler solutions for Intel since we just had Socket 1155 and Socket 2011 to worry about. I just haven't kept up.

It's a shame, because despite EK getting a bad name back then because of the nickel issues, this was a really good block, and it worked well for me.

Here it is after I disassembled the loop which was running for 3 years, still in perfect shape and really clean:

Most of what you see there is just surface tension holding some of the DI water I used to flush it out with between the fins, not gunk.

I wasn't religious about replacing the coolant either. First two years was the same coolant, old EK "Ekoolant". Then when I decided it was time to flush and replace it, they had switched over to their new "Cryofuel", so the last year was with that.

Not sure what the difference was, but it did smell different, and the new one claims to be biodegradable, where the old one didn't, so I presume the formulation changed.

I looked at EK's website and their new CPU blocks are all like $300, which is ridiculous. Luckily Watercool still sells quality Heatkiller blocks for new CPU's for less than €100. I tend to prefer Watercool these days anyway. Better build quality AND a better price is my favorite combination

But yeah, in general, a lot of the stuff in a water loop is completely reusable. Bends, fittings, tubing, radiators, pumps, reservoirs, etc.

The GPU block will need to be replaced every time you replace the GPU though, and the CPU block maybe every 2-3 generations when the manufacturer EOL's it and stops selling new mounting kits for new sockets.

Once you start adding it up, you'd be surprised how large a percentage of the cost of parts is reusable though. When building a loop most people factor in the big items in their budget. The blocks, the radiators, even the reservoirs and pumps. The budget killer is usually all the other stuff you hadn't through about. How many fittings and bends you need, etc.


The blocks may be the highest individual ticket items, but they don't make up the majority of the cost of the loop. ( At least they didn't before EK doubled down on crazy block pricing. )

I loosely recall said adaptable GPU blocks, but as the need for good cooling on the RAM (especially GDDR6X) and the VRMs arose, it became clear that full-cover was the only way to go, even as such blocks would have to be re-engineered not just for each GPU, but each different PCB layout of a given GPU generation - something that's made even more prominent when NVIDIA's Founder's Edition cards are not reference designs in the slightest and the AIBs are all going off and doing their own thing.

(Which might actually be a good thing, if the RX 7900 XTX was any indication! Can't believe I got tempted to put even more money into a waterblock just because they can't fill a vapor chamber properly, only for the temptation to quickly subside when it makes the total price exceed that of an RTX 4080.)

Hopefully, those replacement EK standoffs work well for you, as well as whatever replacement backplate you need for whichever platform you choose. Frankly, I'd be appalled if they dropped support for their older CPU blocks while my XSPC Raystorm Copper is roughly the same vintage, and XSPC will readily sell LGA1700 and AM5 mounting kits for it.

Also, I'll very likely need an SP3/TR4 block soon, for the reason you stated about Threadripper being way too big for a traditional block. Heatkiller IV Pro, I'm guessing?

I feel your pain on needing to choose between modern CPU architecture and PCIe lanes + ECC; this is the entire impetus behind doing a budget Threadripper build for server/VM/NAS purposes while my 12700K/RTX 4080 build tears through next-gen games. They've simply segregated those features too much in the current market, because core count is clearly no longer the distinguishing factor for workstations when the 13900K and 7950X exist. Anything more, and you're asking for a datacenter in a box.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Also, I'll very likely need an SP3/TR4 block soon, for the reason you stated about Threadripper being way too big for a traditional block. Heatkiller IV Pro, I'm guessing?

That's what I went with and I have been very happy with it.

Beware of used EK blocks for the Threadrippers. Their first design was really shitty. They sued the fin design of their smaller blocks and just copy and pasted it into a bigger TR block.

Their current ones are decent though.