Ekoolant Cloudy after 3 Weeks of Use?

[Zarathustra[H]]

Hey all,

Based on recommendations in my build thread, I decided to start a new thread of this.

This is what my coolant looked like when I just filled it:

And this is now, only three weeks later.

Before starting my build, I thoroughly cleaned out the radiators with boiling distilled water, rinsing and shaking the inside of each radiator 10 times.

Once I completed my build, I used the Sysprep solution included with the tubing to flush out the system, and perform my leak test as recommended by Primochill.

After this I drained my loop, filled it with plain distilled water and flushed it for a few hours to get the Sysprep out.

After draining again, I then mixed the concentrated EKoolant (one UV blue bottle, two clear bottles) to make 3L total of coolant, and filled my loop. Everything appears to be working great, but I am a little concerned that it already looks this cloudy after only 3 weeks of use.

Is this normal, or should I be concerned?

I have read that cloudiness is common due to plasticizer leeching from tubing, but I didn't expect it to happen so fast, and I was also under the impression that PrimoChills PrimoFlex Advanced LRT didn't suffer from this problem, at least not as much... it seems awfully soon for this type of issue...

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Quoted from my build thread:

Yeah, that's weird. I have primochill adv lrt black tubing in my build and I hadn't noticed any clouding, though I didn't add a reservoir until recently, so maybe there just wasn't enough water for me to notice. Also less than 3ft of tubing, and used liquid utopia + distilled water instead of ekoolant, if that matters.

Hmm.. I'd start a new thread and give the topic it's own space. I'm curious as well. I'd guess plasticizer leech too, but that's an awful short amount of time for it to be that pronounced. I also just switched my two year old EK tubing that was exhibiting some signs of deteriorating to Primoflex, based on the reviews. I love the flexibility and look, but never used the stuff before.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. I never expected this much this fast.

I wonder if maybe I didn't get all the sysprep out? They say it is harmless even if you leave some in, but I wanted to be extra careful and decided to flush it to remove it all...

 

[thesmokingman]

The sysprep is not harmful.

Notes: During the “flush” the water may become cloudy and foaming may occur. Do not worry! This means the SysPrep is doing its job! If after “flushing” the loop debris is still present, please repeat “flush” again.

** Residual treated water left in your loop is not harmful. If you prefer to remove it, do a simple rinse of the loop with fresh DI or Distilled Water. This rinse will not affect the results of the Sys Prep just performed.

Flush it again, a few times maybe.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Quoted from my build thread:

Your loop was probably not as clean as you thought. Flush it and use fresh water and see how it goes? You might have to go thru a couple flushes. If your rads were new, they typically come with with tons of contaminants leftover from the production.

Yeah, that was a thought too, but I really thought I went above and beyond in cleaning them. I boiled distilled water, and filled and shook the radiators 10 times each.

Even when doing so, I only had a very minute amount of particulate come out.

My flushing method was as follows:

1.) Boil distilled water and fill into radiator.

2.) Let soak for a little bit.

3.) Dump a little bit out through coffee filter.

4.) Shake

5.) Dump a little more out through coffee filter.

6.) Shake again.

7.) Dump a little bit more out through coffee filter.

8.) Shake last time, and dump rest out through coffee filter.

9.) Re-boil water filtered through coffee filter and repeat these steps 9 more times for a total of 10 times.

10.) Examine coffee filter looking for particulate.

I did this rather time consuming washing of both of the radiators.


My working theory right now is that I maybe didn't get all the sysprep out like I thought I did, despite draining, flushing with fresh distilled water, and draining again. Maybe some water got stuck in there somewhere.

The thing is though, if the Sysprep is to blame, I would have expected it to be a problem from the get go, not getting cloudy over time.

 

[thesmokingman]

Hot water doesn't break down the flux, it will only loosen any loose bits. The chemicals will still leech out slowly. What I do is fill the rads up with vinegar for an hour, shake well, flush with hot tap water (90psi) forces all the gunk that the vinegar broke down out. Then the rad is finished off with distilled. I do this to the rads every time I put a rad that's been stored back into use. With QDC's you can do all sorts of tricky shit, like a live flush. I re-direct the reservoir inlet into a giant water jug, connect a funnel to the res inlet and feed fresh distilled straight from the store jugs. After a gallon you have fresh distilled in there. Pump some out, mix in your coolant, and off ya go.

Connecting the tap to the rad is easy with one of those aquarium gravel cleaner kits.

Btw, since you used such a big ass res, their impossible to clean. The milky fog stuff will stick to your res. No way to clean it but pull it and wipe it off. That's why I stopped using big ass res' a while ago, their a pita.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Hot water doesn't break down the flux, it will only loosen any loose bits. The chemicals will still leech out slowly.

Huh,

I wish I had come across this before I built it... I googled th ehell out of it before building, and everyone seemed to suggest just shaking with hot water...

Btw, since you used such a big ass res, their impossible to clean. The milky fog stuff will stick to your res. No way to clean it but pull it and wipe it off. That's why I stopped using big ass res' a while ago, their a pita.

Manual says not to take it apart too. They ship it as a sealed unit. If its gunky in there, hopefully can be remedied by just partially filling and shaking.

 

[thesmokingman]

Vinegar! It's liek the number one cleaning agent for loops.

I'd guess that you can shove a small towel in the res and twist, squish it around to get the cloudy out.

 

[drklu]

also could try Mayhem's cleaning kits, kinda expensive for what it is but it works
Mayhems Blitz Cleaning System by Mayhems

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Vinegar! It's liek the number one cleaning agent for loops.

Isn't there a concern that it's acidity leads to tarnishing of blocks?

I'd guess that you can shove a small towel in the res and twist, squish it around to get the cloudy out.

Can't take it apart. It is sealed. Can't really get anything into the fill port either s it doesn't open wide. There are things in the way - presumably - to prevent stuff getting into the reservoir. Looks a little bit like that plastic obstruction in the opening of a handle sized liquor bottle.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

also could try Mayhem's cleaning kits, kinda expensive for what it is but it works
Mayhems Blitz Cleaning System by Mayhems

I'll look into that.

I had expected maybe needing something like this 2 years down the road, but not 3 weeks...

 

[mizer357]

Isn't there a concern that it's acidity leads to tarnishing of blocks?

There is with nickel-plated stuff, but it's safe on copper and rads. In the past, I exposed a nickel plated GPU block to a mid vinegar solution and saw a small breakdown of the plating around the corners relatively quickly. Since then, I pulled an old, cheap DDC pump out of the woodwork and installed the mesh filter that came with it, and use it to create a mini loop with any individual component I'm cleaning. That way I'm not exposing nickel plated stuff to solutions that could damage the finish. I let it run for 30 min to break down and catch any particles and contaminants, and repeat the procedure once or twice. I typically do this first with any new component before adding it to my main loop, and with blocks I've taken apart and re-assembled for cleaning, since the procedure works as a leak test as well. With nickel, I just follow what EK recommends and use warm water. But, as thesmokingman suggested, a vinegar solution (or lemon juice, or anything with mild acid properties) works great on just about everything else.

Can't take it apart. It is sealed. Can't really get anything into the fill port either s it doesn't open wide. There are things in the way - presumably - to prevent stuff getting into the reservoir. Looks a little bit like that plastic obstruction in the opening of a handle sized liquor bottle.

I'm not familiar with the XPSC Photon line, but if you google Disassembling-a-XSPC-Photon-Reservoir, there seem to be a few postings on the subject that could help you out?

As an aside, I don't use sysprep or premade coolants (just distilled water with a drop of biocide and a kill coil thrown in), so I'm not aware of any potential issues there. As mentioned, maybe just flush your system once or twice and see if that helps?

Best of luck...

 

[drklu]

I'll look into that.

I had expected maybe needing something like this 2 years down the road, but not 3 weeks...

Typically this is what you would do before even installing the rads to get any flux or lubricant out of the rads.
See below for what came out a rad, keep in mind this is after rinsing it out with water. Defiantly not something you want going through the blocks.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Typically this is what you would do before even installing the rads to get any flux or lubricant out of the rads.
See below for what came out a rad, keep in mind this is after rinsing it out with water. Defiantly not something you want going through the blocks.

Agreed, and as I mentioned above, I vigorously cleaned mine by filling them with boiling hot distilled water, and shaking vigorously, 10 times each. I had some small particulate come out but not much. Apparently that is not enough...

 

[magoo]

Did you include an algaecide in your loop?
I am not familiar with the EK coolants, but do they contain a cidal agent?

I've been doing loops for over 10 years now.
I've got new rads, old rads, new blocks, new res, you name it......always done the same thing......
rinse with warm distilled a couple times, flush with room temp fresh distilled, fill the loop, put in a sliver kill coil somewhere.

 

[thesmokingman]

Isn't there a concern that it's acidity leads to tarnishing of blocks?

Can't take it apart. It is sealed. Can't really get anything into the fill port either s it doesn't open wide. There are things in the way - presumably - to prevent stuff getting into the reservoir. Looks a little bit like that plastic obstruction in the opening of a handle sized liquor bottle.

It's what cleans the block of tarnish. Blocks tarnish all on their own. Ya clean it by removing the top layer of tarnish with a light acid, in this case vinegar. Could it damage the block? Yes, if you try real hard to damage it like anything else. Don't let a block sit in vinegar for days and then be surprised, you know what I mean?

As far the res. That's BS of course you can take it apart. You just unscrew the end cap man. In the future, don't get such a large res. They are more annoyance and epeen than useful. And if you have a leak, that's just that much more water you will have splashed all over your case.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Did you include an algaecide in your loop?
I am not familiar with the EK coolants, but do they contain a cidal agent?

I've been doing loops for over 10 years now.
I've got new rads, old rads, new blocks, new res, you name it......always done the same thing......
rinse with warm distilled a couple times, flush with room temp fresh distilled, fill the loop, put in a sliver kill coil somewhere.

Yep, the Ekoolant is supposed to come premixed with everything you need and then some. Algicide/Antibacterial compound, anti-corrosives (which is why I bought it instead of going with my original plan of distilled plus Kill Coil or PT Nuke, as I became paranoid about the Nickel plating), surfactants, etc. etc.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

It's what cleans the block of tarnish. Blocks tarnish all on their own. Ya clean it by removing the top layer of tarnish with a light acid, in this case vinegar. Could it damage the block? Yes, if you try real hard to damage it like anything else. Don't let a block sit in vinegar for days and then be surprised, you know what I mean?

Fair enough. I ask because I am a little paranoid due to my EK Nickel plated blocks. I bought them before I encountered all the articles about the history of corrosion and flaking problems, and now I'm trying to make the best of it.

As far the res. That's BS of course you can take it apart. You just unscrew the end cap man. In the future, don't get such a large res. They are more annoyance and epeen than useful. And if you have a leak, that's just that much more water you will have splashed all over your case.

Well, I was just following what was stated in the manual. XSPC states that the reservoir is pressure tested as assembled and they strongly recommend against disassembling the unit.

 

[Arcygenical]

Ive always used tons of vinegar in my loops. Even dilute acetic acid.

But ketchup does the best job cleaning tarnish off copper

Also, +1 for a small res. I don't even use reservoirs anymore. Just a nice T-Line and bleed valve on one of my radiators.

I also just use straight distilled water, with no additives. I *never* break down my loops and clean them. I run them their entire service life, typically until pump death (which with a DDC running at 65% via PWM) is a very, very long time. I've had this loop unserviced since the release of Sandybridge. It still cools as good as day 1, within a 5% margin of error. Coloured tubing makes it pretty.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

In the future, don't get such a large res. They are more annoyance and epeen than useful. And if you have a leak, that's just that much more water you will have splashed all over your case.

Also, +1 for a small res. I don't even use reservoirs anymore. Just a nice T-Line and bleed valve on one of my radiators.

Yeah, I thought there would be benefits, like a greater mass of coolant helping to smooth out loop temperature, making fan ramp up and slow down less peaky, and that it would make filling the loop much more easy, and make me less likely to have a problem with having to top off the reservoir frequently.

Hindsight being 20-20, I now realize this isn't necessarily the case.

I don't build my systems for looks (but if it winds up looking cool, I'm no stranger to posting pics). My case window is up against a wall anyway. I never even look inside.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I also just use straight distilled water, with no additives. I *never* break down my loops and clean them. I run them their entire service life, typically until pump death (which with a DDC running at 65% via PWM) is a very, very long time. I've had this loop unserviced since the release of Sandybridge. It still cools as good as day 1, within a 5% margin of error. Coloured tubing makes it pretty.

Huh. Based on some of the horror stories I've heard, I would have expected toy to have a loop thick and full of algae growth by now.

My CPU's tend to last a long time these days, so I don't expect to have to break down the loop for CPU upgrades very often, but GPU's don't generally last that long. I expect to have to break into the loop and replace the full cover GPU block roughly annually.

 

[magoo]

I understand. I didn't know the EK stuff was all inclusive.
You don't need to worry about the nickel. EK had some problems a few years back, exposed by my friends at the now defunked RealRedRaider (man I miss that site).
EK had some shitty plating methods, but they fixed it. They half-assed owned up to it, but did leave some pisssed off customers.

I currently run two solid copper EK blocks and I have found them to be as good as anything else I've ever used.

They also seemed to up their customer service a notch. I had a jacked up back plate and they replaced it over-night, no issues.

I'd buy their stuff again. Although I love me some Heatkiller.

 

[thesmokingman]

^^The nickel issue was and still is aesthetic. I think a lot of people took it way too seriously.

Two EK FC580 acetal/nickel [sold]

 

[Arcygenical]

Yeah, I thought there would be benefits, like a greater mass of coolant helping to smooth out loop temperature, making fan ramp up and slow down less peaky, and that it would make filling the loop much more easy, and make me less likely to have a problem with having to top off the reservoir frequently.

Hindsight being 20-20, I now realize this isn't necessarily the case.

I don't build my systems for looks (but if it winds up looking cool, I'm no stranger to posting pics). My case window is up against a wall anyway. I never even look inside.

Yeah, you can spend hours doing the math... Which I've done, designing all kinds of BS systems for all kinds of applications (LED cooling, Audio amps, computers, etc.) and you'll see that the volume of water provided by a standard internal reservoir has absolutely no effect on stabilized temperatures. By definition, no amount of reserve water will have any effect on loop temperatures with constant input energy and constant dissipation potential. Water, for our application, is such a good conductor and battery of heat that the loop differential between 1L and 100L in a constant heat-input scenario is almost non-existant. Sure, the large reservoir will delay saturation temperatures, but will provide no lasting effect on loop temps.

And no, when I do disassemble my loop, after YEARS of service, with ZERO adulterants other than R/O water - I have nothing but lightly green water. It's the patina from oxidized copper. A 2% acetic acid solution removes all tarnish from blocks and reservoirs... And even 6 years later, my 2500K runs at 5ghz, and stays below 75c. Invest in your pump, and a good controller (that monitors if/when the pump dies) and a single service W/C system will last you well beyond the life of your system.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Yeah, you can spend hours doing the math... Which I've done, designing all kinds of BS systems for all kinds of applications (LED cooling, Audio amps, computers, etc.) and you'll see that the volume of water provided by a standard internal reservoir has absolutely no effect on stabilized temperatures. By definition, no amount of reserve water will have any effect on loop temperatures with constant input energy and constant dissipation potential. Water, for our application, is such a good conductor and battery of heat that the loop differential between 1L and 100L in a constant heat-input scenario is almost non-existant. Sure, the large reservoir will delay saturation temperatures, but will provide no lasting effect on loop temps.

And no, when I do disassemble my loop, after YEARS of service, with ZERO adulterants other than R/O water - I have nothing but lightly green water. It's the patina from oxidized copper. A 2% acetic acid solution removes all tarnish from blocks and reservoirs... And even 6 years later, my 2500K runs at 5ghz, and stays below 75c. Invest in your pump, and a good controller (that monitors if/when the pump dies) and a single service W/C system will last you well beyond the life of your system.

Yeah, I know it wouldn't have much of an effect (other than delaying peak temp) in a constant in/ constant out scenario. But a PC is not a constant in scenario. My thoughts was with a larger amount of coolant it would smooth out the peaks and valleys, and allow for more constant fan speeds without impacting core temps, so that a short term spike in heat, doesn't necessarily need to result in either a spin-up of fans, or an increase in overall loop temp.

 

[thesmokingman]

Yeah, I know it wouldn't have much of an effect (other than delaying peak temp) in a constant in/ constant out scenario. But a PC is not a constant in scenario. My thoughts was with a larger amount of coolant it would smooth out the peaks and valleys, and allow for more constant fan speeds without impacting core temps, so that a short term spike in heat, doesn't necessarily need to result in either a spin-up of fans, or an increase in overall loop temp.

But you're incorrect. Res size doesn't matter. It just holds your water for easier access. Personally I prefer a smaller res and pump for that matter so I can put them on the floor of the case. That way in case of all hell breaking loose, you have that much less liquid creating a mess.

 

[magoo]

^^The nickel issue was and still is aesthetic. I think a lot of people took it way too seriously.

Two EK FC580 acetal/nickel [sold]

It actually wasn't aesthetic.
The plating was all wrong and the nickle separated from the copper. Some blocks in large chunks.
You can go back and look it up.

Personally, I've never used a plated block so it was a non-issue. I had rarely used EK blocks until the Watercool boys got behind in the GPU production.

As I said, my current GPU blocks are EK and they are fine.

I've always had a Heatkiller/Watercool for my CPU however.

 

[thesmokingman]

It actually wasn't aesthetic.
The plating was all wrong and the nickle separated from the copper. Some blocks in large chunks.
You can go back and look it up.

Personally, I've never used a plated block so it was a non-issue. I had rarely used EK blocks until the Watercool boys got behind in the GPU production.

As I said, my current GPU blocks are EK and they are fine.

I've always had a Heatkiller/Watercool for my CPU however.

The plating used in watercooling blocks is aesthetic. It's for the exterior look, not really for the internal loop plating. And plating issues happens to every maker. The plating wasn't all wrong, it was POROUS. And that allowed
galvanic corrosion to happen. The reason its aesthetic is because it is superficial, the corrosion doesn't change it from being a copper block that is plated. Once the plating is gone, its still a copper block. One could take a block and have the plating removed. That doesn't change anything.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

The plating used in watercooling blocks is aesthetic. It's for the exterior look, not really for the internal loop plating. And plating issues happens to every maker. The plating wasn't all wrong, it was POROUS. And that allowed
galvanic corrosion to happen. The reason its aesthetic is because it is superficial, the corrosion doesn't change it from being a copper block that is plated. Once the plating is gone, its still a copper block. One could take a block and have the plating removed. That doesn't change anything.

While that is all true, if your corrosion results in nickel chunks coming off and moving around your loop, I'd imagine they might cause problems, like potentially damaging your pump.

As far as the galvanic corrosion goes, nickel has LESS galvanic corrosion in a loop with a silver kill coil than copper does, as it is slightly less anodic than copper is. The fact that it was porous and thin - however - meant that it didn't take much in the way of corrosion for it to start coming off.

 

[thesmokingman]

While that is all true, if your corrosion results in nickel chunks coming off and moving around your loop, I'd imagine they might cause problems, like potentially damaging your pump.

As far as the galvanic corrosion goes, nickel has LESS galvanic corrosion in a loop with a silver kill coil than copper does, as it is slightly less anodic than copper is. The fact that it was porous and thin - however - meant that it didn't take much in the way of corrosion for it to start coming off.

Too much assuming. Show a case where a pump was proven to die from plating loss? There's no gearing to get caught, and really the plating is stupid micron thin. Remember it's not real thick protect from the elements plating.

 

[Bandalo]

Quoted from my build thread:


9.) Re-boil water filtered through coffee filter and repeat these steps 9 more times for a total of 10 times.

IMO, this may be your problem. Boiling and filtering water will not get rid of any chemical contaminate. Filtering will get rid of particles, and boiling will kill any bacteria, but anything else in your loop (leftover cleaners, dyes, flux removers, etc) will just keep being cycled.

Use fresh DI water from the jug for each flush.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

IMO, this may be your problem. Boiling and filtering water will not get rid of any chemical contaminate. Filtering will get rid of particles, and boiling will kill any bacteria, but anything else in your loop (leftover cleaners, dyes, flux removers, etc) will just keep being cycled.

Use fresh DI water from the jug for each flush.

Yeah, at the time I thought what I was looking for were chunks of flux.

There are definitely a host of things I would have done differently were I doing it again now.

Hopefully this can all be salvaged by filling flushing and draining with DI water a few times, without needing to take anything apart. I like a good project, but I'm about ready for my rig to just run for a while without needing maintenance.

 

[Bandalo]

In general you want to flush new rads to get rid of chunks that might clog up the small passages in your blocks. The problem is that rad manufacturers are aware of this, so they do chemical flushes of new radiators to remove as much as possible (with varying degrees of success). They don't always get the all the cleaning chemicals out before they package them up.

Hopefully a few flushes will help with your situation. I know it sucks, especially since that coolant isn't cheap!

 

[mizer357]

I like a good project, but I'm about ready for my rig to just run for a while without needing maintenance.

Haha... sometimes it really does feel this way.

 

[magoo]

Too much assuming. Show a case where a pump was proven to die from plating loss? There's no gearing to get caught, and really the plating is stupid micron thin. Remember it's not real thick protect from the elements plating.

The issue I agree isn't the pump. There aren't any pieces in a PC pump that could be bothered by a small piece of flaking-off nickel.

What I'm referring to is the micro-channels in the blocks themselves which will becomes coated, gummed up and pasty over time. Any particulate that gums up theses channels will be a nidus for algae.

EKs problem was that their copper was not prepared properly to accept the nickel plate.
The evidence was arrived at through science and good professional investigation paid for by RRR.
Too bad the site has been disbanded, it was all there. It wasn't galvanic, it was poor prep and cheap plate.

At any rate it's a dead horse.

Good luck getting your loop back in order. In this case, I think less would have been better.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Well, my weekend was spent doing the following:

- Drain Loop
- Fill loop with plain distilled water and run for a few hours
- Drain loop
- Fill loop with distilled water and a couple of drops of dish soap (added it as a surfactant but found it actually helped clean too) & run overnight
- Drain loop
- Fill with plain distilled water. Run for a few hours
- Drain loop
- Fill with plain distilled water. Run for a few hours
- Drain loop
- Fill with plain distilled water. Run for a few hours.
- Drain loop.
- Fill with plain distilled water. Run for a few hours.
- Drain loop.
- Fill with fresh coolant.

Looks like it's nice and clear now:

I just hope it stays that way...


I also forgot that I had some mixed coolant left over from my original fill, so now, between my two mixings of coolant, I have plenty to top it for for pretty much ever, and might even be able to fill the entire loop again with what I have left.

 

[DWolvin]

Nice! I had that same concentrate but only used a tablespoon or two per loop fill- just enough to see the water level. And the easiest way I have found to flush a rad is just to prop it in the sink so one port is higher than the other and flush a gallon or so of distilled through it...

 

[magoo]

Looks nice.
Whatever it was.......you fixed it.