Eizo monitor advice

wyqtor

Limp Gawd
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I would like a new PWM-free monitor for games, reading, and movies that I will use to replace my Dell U2312HM and its uniformity, contrast and bleed+glow issues. Since I can't afford to waste time and money with monitor exchanges, I've been reading [H]Forum regularly and so I figured Eizo is my best bet, as I don't seem to read as many complaints as I read about Dells, Asus, and so on. I saw an Asus PA238Q recently and it was just horrible in terms of bleed and grain, with a much worse image quality than the cheapo AOC TN I have at work; so simply want to get away from those kinds of problems. Eizo seem to have a good reputation and I'd rather pay double upfront and get a quality product than gamble. I was previously itching for a 120 hz Korean but decided I am not rich enough to gamble that it will arrive at my place in one piece.

I already have another good U2311H with excellent contrast (quite a lot higher than any other IPS monitor I have seen with my own eyes) with very little bleed, and ligher AG coating than of the newer U2312HM. So basically I would like a monitor at least as good as that, preferably quite a lot better (esp. as I will be paying double the price if not more).

So here are my options:

1. EV2336W

My local Eizo distributor has just got some in stock for 380 € with tax included . It has a handy height adjustment.
Haven't seen any reviews yet, so I don't really know much about it, in terms of contrast level, coating, ghosting/overdrive. There is a thread here and so far they say the coating is bearable. Not terribly encouraging as I would prefer as close to glossy as possible without the monitor turning into a mirror, similar to FS2333 (which is not listed with my local Eizo distributor and also has PWM).

2. FS2331

This one is available at 495 € (yeah, that's double the price people can obtain it in Germany; one of the "joys" of living in a poor 2nd rate country from the former Soviet block). It caught my attention as it is VA with high contrast and CCFL (thus no PWM), I would like quality blacks for my games if possible but I also dislike ghosting. I'm not going to play competitive games and many shooters though. I really don't know how to make the trade-off: more ghosting but quality blacks vs. potentially better motion, no gamma shift, height-adjustable stand and in my case substantially cheaper price. Since I'm already happy with my U2311H IPS monitor I was kind of hoping to have a PWM-free)VA so I could experience the best of both worlds, even if not at the same time, keeping one monitor mostly for movies and light gaming. But in this case I'm not sure it's worth it, to pay that much of a premium over the ev2336w with better ergonomics.

3. S2433W

This one is substantially more expensive at 830 € and I'm not sure I'm willing to throw my savings on it. It caught my eye because SvetHardware.cz mentioned it as one of the ultimate gaming monitors. It is a S-PVA panel without the issues of IPSwith just as good angles apparently and 1200:1 contrast (maybe with a small amount of gamma shift). It is also wide gamut and I really don't need that, but since they say it is so good for gaming than it probably has a good sRGB mode. It would seem almost the perfect monitor.

4. EV2436W

This one I probably can't obtain since the official Eizo distributor in my country doesn't list it in their offer (unlike the rest). Seems pretty good though with excellent contrast, though I don't know about the AG coating.

So I would like to ask for recommendations. What would you guys pick in my position? I'm open to any suggestions.
 
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young boy

Limp Gawd
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Jan 26, 2007
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419
Bump!

I'm in pretty much the same boat as you. I'm looking for a flicker-free sRGB monitor (or at least partially flicker-free) and the Eizo's flexiscan EV series seem to fit the bill. Problem is, I don't know which of the 6 monitors has the least aggressive AG coating. Size nor price isn't really a consideration for me. I'll be fine with 27" or even 23" monitor.

One more thing; do the Eizo monitors have FRC flicker?
 

wyqtor

Limp Gawd
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I didn't get around to buying a new monitor, but from my research the FS2333 does have PWM flicker, while the EV2x36 series is flicker-free until about 20% brightness, anything lower and it will flicker. In terms of coating the EV2436W has a rather grainy coating so it would probably be better to avoid it.

The EV2336W and EV2736W are both good choices, I don't know if there's any difference between them except for the size. I'd choose the size that's most comfortable for my usage. If you game, you will probably need a beefy video card like the GeForce 780 or Titan to push the native resolution of the 27" model, or maybe 2 less expensive video cards in SLI.
 

Namelessme

[H]ard|Gawd
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From what I have read, the 2336 and 2736 have the same light coating. Eizo also directly stated this on their facebook page. The 2436 has a heavy coating, similar to the Dell 2412.

If it was me, I wouldn't spend that much for the 2331 (C-PVA) or 2433. If you want older tech like that, I suggest looking on eBay for a used model, as sometimes they can be found a lot cheaper used. And assuming they were made recently, they may still be under Eizo warranty (3 years display, 5 years electronics). I also wouldn't really classify any S-PVAs as ultimate gaming monitors really, at least nowadays ... there will be some ghosting.

If you are considering spending 500-800€, I'd recommend the 2736. But I am not sure what it costs in your part of the world, nor if your PC can support 1440p so well. One user here commented that it handles interpolation very well though.
 

young boy

Limp Gawd
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Thank you to both of you for your quick replies!

Please allow me to ascertain a few things.

  • Among all Eizo monitors, only the monitors in the EV series utilise hybird dimming.
  • The 3 EV2x16W monitors use TN technology and claim to produce 16.77million colours, so they definitely use FRC, making them a no-go.
  • The EV2436W has very grainy coating according to both of you, as well as many other users. I've seen how grainy the Dell U2412H and U2312HM monitors are, and I know for certain that I don't want such an aggressive AG coating. It really affects the clarity of texts IMO.
  • Ergo, among all Eizo monitors, I should only consider the EV2336W and EV2736W

According to this and this websites, there is actually one other monitor that I ought to consider, the Dell U2713HM because of the light AG coating, and lack of PWM and FRC. What do you think of it?

I really only have one requirement, that is for the monitor to be easy on the eye. But finding a monitor that satisfies this requirement is proving far more challenging that I initially thought. :(
 

NCX

Supreme [H]ardness
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The U2713HM has lots of quality control issues such as light bleeding+yellow tinting, image retention (potential for burn in) and the matte coating suffers from cross-hatching issues (diagonal interweaving lines).

The EV2763W is nice but overpriced in some countries. For example, in North America the Eizo costs 1,000$ but has worse gaming performance vs. the ViewSonic VP2770 (700-800$) while in some European countries the Eizo is cheaper.

The best 27" 1440p monitor right now is the ViewSonic VP2770 since it does not use LED PWM dimming, have cross-hatching issues and is the least amount of ghosting+lag.

My post here compares PRAD's pixel response time measurements and I have tested most of the 1440p monitors

Image retention and cross-hatching are AH-IPS panel exclusives.
 

Namelessme

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  • The 3 EV2x16W monitors use TN technology and claim to produce 16.77million colours, so they definitely use FRC, making them a no-go.

It's possible the 2336 uses FRC too. Has anyone ever found any confirmation that the 2336 is 8 bit? I had a hard time getting Eizo to admit to anything... they wouldn't even admit to using PLS in some models.
 

young boy

Limp Gawd
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Thank you for your replies!

If Dell's QC is indeed so poor, then I certainly won't buy the U2713HM. Truth be told, I have some reservations about buying Dell monitors because of the Dell panel lottery incident many years ago. On the other hand, such unethical business practices are committed by Samsung and other brands too. In addition, I do understand that bad units are unfortunately inevitable, and only people with issues with the monitor would complaint thereby inflating the severity of the problem. So it would be unfair to condemn Dell altogether. The question I therefore have is, is Dell's QC worse than Eizo's?

Thank you NCX for pointing out the other issues with the Dell monitor. From the little research I've done, it seems these issues are really quite annoying. Ah well, the U2713HM isn't as good as it thought it would be...

Namelessme, you have a point. The 2336 may very well be a e-IPS which supports 6-bits natively. Shame on Eizo for being so secretive, especially since it's suppose to be the industry leader for monitors together with NEC. Haven't Eizo heard that it's also a sin to omit?

So is the conclusion really that there is no monitor which can satisfy my only requirement, that is for the monitor to be eye-friendly? :(

Edit - what about the ViewSonic VP2770 that is so well received here?
 
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Namelessme

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The Viewsonic is supposed to be nice -- NCX would definitely know more about that than I would. It's also PWM free.

Just make sure your computer has the horsepower to run games at 1440p.

And I would also recommend basing your decision on what the Viewsonic vs Eizo costs in your part of the World. If prices are equal, I'd personally lean towards the Eizo for the longer warranty. But if the Eizo is several hundred more, then the Viewsonic is probably a better deal.

And the 6 bit thing probably isn't such a big deal as you may think it is. If 6-bit, it'll be 6-bit + 2 bit FRC, and most people can't tell any difference between that and an 8-bit panel. But I do agree that ideally the panel would be 8-bit, especially on a monitor that is $300-$400.
 

young boy

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One thing that worries me though is the use of FRC in the VP2770. I know that few people are affected by FRC flicker, but I don't want to take any chances. Are there any complaints about FRC flicker? Google search yielded nothing. And does 8+2 FRC cause less flicker than 6+2 FRC, since the colour difference between each cycle is lesser?

Don't worry about gaming performance. This monitor is used solely for reading and trading. While this means image quality isn't that important, I certainly wouldn't mind good colour accuracy, good black levels etc because that would make using the monitor a much more enjoyable experience. I'll buy an Eizo colour edge for my photography "needs".

The Eizo 2736 is only USD640, making it even cheaper than the Dell. (hmm.. a bit too good to be true. I'll have to check with the shop again). There's hardly any reviews about the Eizo 2736 though, so I'm essentially taking a leap of faith when I order the Eizo.

As stated above, I'm more worried about the flicker issue than the fact that it's not an 8-bit panel. I'm not one of those pedantic/festidious people who fret over numbers and specifications. ;)
 

Namelessme

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An Eizo 2736 at $640 is a good deal ... I think it's around $900+ here in the US. If I was in the market for a 27"er, I'd probably get the Eizo at that price.

Check Prad for reviews (not sure if they reviewed that model or not) and check this forum for user reviews. Like any monitor, some people will have some problems, but overall I think it's considered a good model. I know someone who posted here went from an NEC 2690 to the Eizo 2736, and he seems to like it a lot.
 

young boy

Limp Gawd
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All things considered, I decided to go with the U2713HM. Here are some of my thoughts regarding the monitor after a week of use. Hopefully they will help wyqtor decide if it suitable for him.

The monitor is currently hooked up to my Macbook Air via a minidisplay port to display port cable. FYI, the first cable was, for some unfathomable reason, incompatible. No signal was received by the monitor. I had the cable replaced but the replacement also did not work. So I had to purchased a different one, which mercifully worked. The irrefutable conclusion is that there are cables and there are cables, so research before you buy. Unfortunately, I still don't know what the differences between these 2 cables are. And in case you're wondering why I didn't buy an Apple version; well, that's because Apple doesn't sell one... :rolleyes:. I'm running windows bootcamp, not Mac OS, so the output signal from the laptop is indeed RGB, not YCrCb (apparently Mac OS sees the monitor as a TV and therefore outputs YCrCb; read up this issue yourself). You may alternatively purchase a displayport to DVI dual link converter and use the supplied DVD dual link cable, but this is a much more expensive option.

Pros:
  • The AG coating is indeed light. Light enough not to cause graininess or sparkle on a white screen. Texts are also sharp as a result. Though I do wish the AG could be decreased even more.
  • I have not noticed any ghosting yet, mainly because I'm not gaming on this monitor.
  • PWM flicker is indeed non-existent, even at 0% brightness. Verified using a camera. But I still experience eye fatigue, perhaps because the screen is now much larger (i was formerly using a 23" Samsung 226BW). Or perhaps it's EM radiation? Maybe I should try out one of these. :D
  • Aesthetically beautiful IMO. The bezel is neither too thick nor thin; it's proportionate. I also love the fact that that the borders are straight, not curved. On the whole, the monitor just looks professional, poised and dignified.
  • The stand is functional and feels sturdy.
  • The monitor mounts onto the stand very easily. (It's tool-free installation)
  • Securely packaged.
  • Very user-friendly OSD. Buttons are well placed and have a nice tactile feel.
  • Kudos to Dell for designing the exterior so well. But much has to be said of the image quality.

The mediocre (areas which could be improved upon). Note: I'm talking about out-of-the-box, uncalibration/unprofiled performance:
  • Black levels are decent. Still a far cry from "inky black" though...
  • Colour temperature is warmer than 6500k, though I don't know by how much because I have not measured it using any equipment. But it's definitely too yellow.
  • Adjusting the colours using the RGB channels is almost impossible because the increments are too large. For instance, reducing the red channel by just one unit changes the colour dramatically. This is also true for the sharpness setting; it's only in steps of 10 units.
  • Black crush exists. Using the Lagom test, the first 3 boxes are indistinguishable.
  • The yellow backlightbleed (BLB) on the lower left and blueish BLB on the lower right do exist, but because they are only evident in a completely dark room, they does not bother me.
  • There is very noticeable input lag even in normal desktop environment. I can't believe this. It's only what? 20ms of lag according to TFTcentral and prad. I swear it's not because I'm trying to look for minor imperfections in the monitor. I noticed this lag the first instant hooked up the monitor and moved my mouse. I also hooked up the monitor to my desktop using the supplied DVD dual link cable, but the lag is still present, so it's not an issue with the macbook or displayport cable. As I said earlier, I'm coming from a Samsung 226BW. While the 226BW has lag too, I felt it's acceptable. The Dell, on the other hand, is almost unacceptable. I guess I'm just very sensitive to this, especially after years of FPS gaming.
  • A very slight buzzing sound can be heard from the top when I put my ear next to it, but not enough to be heard at normal distances even in an absolutely silent room, so not an issue to be concerned about.

Bad:
This Lagon test shows that pixel-walking exists.

One more annoyance. The texts are way way too small. I miss the pixel pitch of a 1680x1050 on a 23" monitor, or better yet, a 1280x1024 on a 19" monitor! I've tried using 1280x720 (exactly half the linear resolution of the native resolution, which is 2560x1440, to avoid interpolation) on the Dell 2713, but it's still very blur. I've also tried increasing the DPI in windows but also caused blurriness. Perhaps I should just have gone with a 1920x1080 27" monitor...

All in all, I just got a bigger monitor with better colours and viewing angles, but smaller text than my 226BW. Still experiencing eye fatigue. Perhaps it may even be aggravated because the screen is bigger and the text is smaller. Irony. I worsened the very problem I set out to solve.
 
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Namelessme

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I like large text and find increasing system DPI and increasing browser page settings work decently. I don't really see any extra blurriness by doing so. Although I use a 24"er, so perhaps you are setting 'zoom' a bit higher than me.

All I can suggest is returning it if you are unhappy with it. An owner of the Eizo 2736 in this forum commented that it handled interpolation very well. And when he ran it at half res, he stated it was very clear.

If it's the size of the monitor causing an issue, try lowering brightness. Although I expect you tried that already.
 

NCX

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Increase windows dpi setting...should have bought the ViewSonic since it has half the signal delay of the Dell...
 
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