Very.
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Eizo Foris FG2421: 120hz VA Panel
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Very.
Michaelius
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Probably not really - IGZO are slow so I fully expect it will be massacred again 120Hz strobing display.
Yeah, they excel in completely different areas.
4k igzo will be better for editing stills in a bright room or keeping lots of small text like code on screen, the FG2421 will outclass it for any other usage scenario.
Not really, the Asus 4K monitor is considerably worse (750:1 contrast ratio, 1 frame+ delay, less accurate+smaller color gamut, slower pixel response times) than most of the 300$ 1440p Korean models and has an insultingly low LED PWM Dimming Frequency.
Yeah, but those things are quantitative. They don't really matter after you use one and realize it's a qualitatively different experience from anything else out there.
For gaming or media watching I don't really see the point(at least, for first person action games and such, the way gaming is generally referred to on these forums. For strategy/tactical/rpg games it's actually really awesome because most of them are not aspect ratio-based and the super high resolution lets you see a lot more). The Eizo here is obviously far superior for THAT. Resolution doesn't matter as much for these types of usages as contrast ratio and motion clarity do. For those of us for whom the above uses are maybe 5-10% of our computer usage, and the other 90% is desktop work: Web browsing, email, coding, IRC, SSH terminal, reading and typing things based on what we're reading the sheer real estate and crispness of text and static images is amazing.
I wish I could figure out some way to mount an Eizo for gaming and a PQ321 for normal usage so that I could swap their positions really easily and not have to face different directions or anything crazy like that
Oh wow, prad said the PWM on the IGZO is 120 Hz lol. That's like the lowest I've seen. $3,500 monitor paired with a $60 monitors PWM system. I swear people that run these companies are brain dead. Well, at least I bought it from Amazon....
It seems that the Asus panel supports display port for 4k tiling on Nvidia. It also has dual hdmi ports in the US. The website is slightly unclear if the Asus only has dual hdmi in the US though.
My understanding is that on Nvidia a 4k tiled screen is treated like one display. Can anyone confirm this?
https://developer.nvidia.com/4k-ultra-high-resolution-development
http://www.asus.com/News/L9xTPmmMwTlPMq5l
I am done fine-tuning my settings now, here are a couple of pictures with a better quality camera, these really show the great contrast and quality of the panels.
Brightness 53, contrast 50, black level 50, red 100, green 88, blue 87, turbo: on, contrast enhancer: enhanced, gamma 2.2, temperature off. (using eizo's ICC for 2.2 gamma).
Pictures aren't perfect, but it looks really, really good like this. Taken in a pitch black room. Made the bottom one clicky for full resolution.
Original: http://dev.wallpaperfusion.com:25108/Image/final-moon/967/
Brightness 53, contrast 50, black level 50, red 100, green 88, blue 87, turbo: on, contrast enhancer: enhanced, gamma 2.2, temperature off. (using eizo's ICC for 2.2 gamma).
Pictures aren't perfect, but it looks really, really good like this. Taken in a pitch black room. Made the bottom one clicky for full resolution.
Original: http://dev.wallpaperfusion.com:25108/Image/final-moon/967/
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Current Nvidia drivers automatically configure this as a 2x1 surround setup "under the hood". You don't have to do anything. It does introduce some quirks(POST at boot only shows up on one half of the screen, when you get into a game if the resolution isn't set correctly it might show up on one half of the screen, you can't run at 1080p in MST mode without fiddling around with custom resolutions a bunch, etc) but nothing that affects normal operation at 3840x2160. Some people did have issues with the system freezing if the monitor is on and in MST mode during boot up, and I don't know if they've fixed these in current drivers or anything either.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/539645/nvidia-surround/2-monitor-gaming-/ This thread contains pretty much all the action from when we were trying to figure out how to get this thing working properly
lockdown571
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Finally did a more thorough evaluation of the 240 hz turbo mode. I put all the settings in Battlefield 4 at low and went to the test range. FPS was 100-120. The differences were most obvious when spinning around in the helicopter and watching the trees. Obviously the following is rather subjective.
60 Hz with turbo off: Choppy
120 Hz with turbo off: Smooth, but the trees look blurry as you're spinning
120 Hz with turbo on: Smooth, and the trees stay crystal clear while spinning
It's really quite impressive, and I really need to upgrade my graphics card! I have all the settings in BF4 set to low right now until I get a new card. Right now I'm using an Nvidia 570 GTX. I will likely upgrade to an AMD Radeon 290.
Again, very pleased with the FG2421 now. I haven't seen the dead pixel once with general use. The light bleeding on the edges is rarely noticeable with general use. Ghosting is more noticeable on the blur busters UFO test compared to my Acer HN274H, however I haven't noticed any ghosting with general use. I also haven't noticed any input lag either.
So my basic conclusion about this monitor is that motion and black levels are amazing, and the performance deficiencies I've read about and encountered with testing aren't really noticeable with general use. Also glad it was actually VESA mountable (albeit with only two screws). Overall the monitor is excellent, although still very expensive!
60 Hz with turbo off: Choppy
120 Hz with turbo off: Smooth, but the trees look blurry as you're spinning
120 Hz with turbo on: Smooth, and the trees stay crystal clear while spinning
It's really quite impressive, and I really need to upgrade my graphics card! I have all the settings in BF4 set to low right now until I get a new card. Right now I'm using an Nvidia 570 GTX. I will likely upgrade to an AMD Radeon 290.
Again, very pleased with the FG2421 now. I haven't seen the dead pixel once with general use. The light bleeding on the edges is rarely noticeable with general use. Ghosting is more noticeable on the blur busters UFO test compared to my Acer HN274H, however I haven't noticed any ghosting with general use. I also haven't noticed any input lag either.
So my basic conclusion about this monitor is that motion and black levels are amazing, and the performance deficiencies I've read about and encountered with testing aren't really noticeable with general use. Also glad it was actually VESA mountable (albeit with only two screws). Overall the monitor is excellent, although still very expensive!
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Got the pic. Set at TFTCentral settings. Turned out better than I expected. Obviously with a camera it will pick up some of the gamma viewing angle issues (why center is darker) and exaggerate brightness differences:
The center and right monitors are fairly perfect, the left one is a little worse at the top (right side in landscape), but overall in real life just barely perceptible lighter grey on the top edge on dark greys. Completely excellent in normal viewing and games. Plus I don't even use this high of brightness in a completely dark room anyways with three monitors. So bright I would go blind.
Overall super happy with my samples.
EDIT:
I had to laugh at this screenshot of an IPS on the French forum:
Look at the difference!
The center and right monitors are fairly perfect, the left one is a little worse at the top (right side in landscape), but overall in real life just barely perceptible lighter grey on the top edge on dark greys. Completely excellent in normal viewing and games. Plus I don't even use this high of brightness in a completely dark room anyways with three monitors. So bright I would go blind.
Overall super happy with my samples.
EDIT:
I had to laugh at this screenshot of an IPS on the French forum:
Look at the difference!
Just by these pictures, the IPS display doesn't look too good (the glow/BLB is definitely killing it), but at least you can see the gray stripes everywhere on the screen. On your photo, I can see those stripes clearly only at the edge of the screens. They are barely visible in the centre. It seems like crushed blacks. I know you've said that in person and normal viewing conditions, things are different, but I guess that would be the case with the above mentioned IPS screen, too.
PS: Your samples look pretty good compared to some of the other members'.
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Michaelius
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http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/testberichte.html
prad review is out - only average score - rest is behind paywall
prad review is out - only average score - rest is behind paywall
Can't say anything with your picture vega, it's way too dim. All pictures posted by other users clearly show the stripes so you have to try to make a similar picture if we want to be able to compare.
Here are 2 exemples of pictures taken by other fg2421 owners:
It is obvious we cannot compare your picture where stripes are only barely visible with those where stripes are clearly visible. Also on your picture the stripes are pointing the wrong direction due to the fact you displayed the pattern on triplescreen instead on screen by screen. The stripes have to be vertical as we want to look at gamma shift that is happening horizontaly.
Here is what happens when I adjust the levels of your picture so the stripes visibility becomes closer to the pictures we want to compare with:
Complete different story now. From this I would only see your 2 best ones (center and right) being only on par with the average I've already seen from other users, and the left one being below average, as some unlucky users have had. So nothing different with your set of 3 than what I've seen from other users. Take a picture where we see the stripes as we see them in the 2 first pictures of my post (by using longer exposure time) and then we can do a better comparison.
About the IPS comparison now. I can only say IPS succeeds way better in this test. Talking about a picture alone without further explanations from the person who took it is irrelevant (the same is true for the fg2421 gamma shift pictures of course). I have done the test with my own IPS panel and I can tell you the light at the edges (IPS glow) on the picture is waaay exagerrated by the camera (I have the same when I take a picture of mine displaying this patern). With naked eyes you only barely see it if you look straight at the panel. You only see it a lot more if you move your head off the center (lot of glow at the opposite side angle vs your head position).
Beside this, the stripes brightness uniformity from left to right is excellent on IPS, and this is precisely what we are looking at with this test pattern (lack of contrast is irrelevant, we already know it will be a lot worse with an IPS).
Here are 2 exemples of pictures taken by other fg2421 owners:
It is obvious we cannot compare your picture where stripes are only barely visible with those where stripes are clearly visible. Also on your picture the stripes are pointing the wrong direction due to the fact you displayed the pattern on triplescreen instead on screen by screen. The stripes have to be vertical as we want to look at gamma shift that is happening horizontaly.
Here is what happens when I adjust the levels of your picture so the stripes visibility becomes closer to the pictures we want to compare with:
Complete different story now. From this I would only see your 2 best ones (center and right) being only on par with the average I've already seen from other users, and the left one being below average, as some unlucky users have had. So nothing different with your set of 3 than what I've seen from other users. Take a picture where we see the stripes as we see them in the 2 first pictures of my post (by using longer exposure time) and then we can do a better comparison.
About the IPS comparison now. I can only say IPS succeeds way better in this test. Talking about a picture alone without further explanations from the person who took it is irrelevant (the same is true for the fg2421 gamma shift pictures of course). I have done the test with my own IPS panel and I can tell you the light at the edges (IPS glow) on the picture is waaay exagerrated by the camera (I have the same when I take a picture of mine displaying this patern). With naked eyes you only barely see it if you look straight at the panel. You only see it a lot more if you move your head off the center (lot of glow at the opposite side angle vs your head position).
Beside this, the stripes brightness uniformity from left to right is excellent on IPS, and this is precisely what we are looking at with this test pattern (lack of contrast is irrelevant, we already know it will be a lot worse with an IPS).
Looks like the FG2421 got dinged big time in the color accuracy / calibration section in the prad.de review which brought its overall score down (I have a three-month subscription that hasn't lapsed yet). Their comment on the last page was that it would be rated "very good" if only counted as a gaming monitor
Input lag at 60 Hz = 21.2 ms total (16.8 ms processing / 4.4 ms pixel transitions).
Input lag at 120 Hz = 12.8 ms total (8.5 ms processing / 4.4 ms pixel transitions).
So one frame essentially.
Input lag at 60 Hz = 21.2 ms total (16.8 ms processing / 4.4 ms pixel transitions).
Input lag at 120 Hz = 12.8 ms total (8.5 ms processing / 4.4 ms pixel transitions).
So one frame essentially.
Michaelius
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Question to owners : are there visible overdrive artifacts in 120Hz turbo on mode ?
Just by these pictures, the IPS display doesn't look too good (the glow/BLB is definitely killing it), but at least you can see the gray stripes everywhere on the screen. On your photo, I can see those stripes clearly only at the edge of the screens. They are barely visible in the centre. It seems like crushed blacks. I know you've said that in person and normal viewing conditions, things are different, but I guess that would be the case with the above mentioned IPS screen, too.
PS: Your samples look pretty good compared to some of the other members'.
Yes there is some black crush/gamma shift like all VA panels. The bars on the IPS are clearly visible because the blacks and contrast ratio (never mind the IPS glow) are pretty poor compared. The bars are suppose to be dark/contrasting.
You are just getting completely silly. I have to wonder what your point is in this thread now and what your agenda is.
The picture I took is of the screens at 50 brightness. That is the brightness TFTCentral used for a dim room. It's already way too bright for a pitch black room, and you want me to dump tons more brightness into it to compare some unscientific comparison with other peoples random screenshots at brightness settings you would never use (over 100% brightness / eye scorching setting would be required) on an image/color type/combination you would rarely come across in normal use? Man, stand back and get some perspective.
Heres is a clue for you; the bars being dark and not bright is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. The black bars are obviously supposed to be black, and the grey bars are very dark grey. I just compared that image with two other monitors, IGZO IPS and TN and my two VA panel models destroy them.
Artificially slamming gamma into a photo with photoshop to try and make any sort of "comparison" is laughable. You may as well turn it neon green as that is about how useful doing that is and has absolutely no correlation to how the panels look in real life, which is very close to my original photo.
Sorry, if you think an IPS panel succeeds better in this "test", I recommend some new glasses. IPS does incredibly bad in dark/contrasting scenes. So you say IPS glow is "waaay exaggerated" in that photo, because taking a photo of what is very comparable to what I am seeing in real life and dumping massive gamma into it with photoshop isn't exaggerating anything right?
Here is the IPS panel with a little neel "touch":
So I would have to go back to saying what your agenda is in this thread. Are you truly interested in purchasing this monitor or is this some sort of "I just got an IPS so I am validating my questionable purchase decision" ramble?
Looks like the FG2421 got dinged big time in the color accuracy / calibration section in the prad.de review which brought its overall score down (I have a three-month subscription that hasn't lapsed yet). Their comment on the last page was that it would be rated "very good" if only counted as a gaming monitor
Input lag at 60 Hz = 21.2 ms total (16.8 ms processing / 4.4 ms pixel transitions).
Input lag at 120 Hz = 12.8 ms total (8.5 ms processing / 4.4 ms pixel transitions).
So one frame essentially.
Because color accuracy is incredibly important for a gaming monitor.
I think sometimes people lose perspective on things, how they are designed and what they are designed to do.Many review sites opinions are totally irrelevant for overall use that includes gaming.
They place far, far too much weight on exact non-black color accuracy in a brightly lit room (only for stills, of course, accuracy in any kind of motion is never measured).
If color accuracy was tested for moving pictures, and/or including black as part of the color accuracy test, this eizo would probably count as the #1 most accurate LCD ever.
They place far, far too much weight on exact non-black color accuracy in a brightly lit room (only for stills, of course, accuracy in any kind of motion is never measured).
If color accuracy was tested for moving pictures, and/or including black as part of the color accuracy test, this eizo would probably count as the #1 most accurate LCD ever.
Don't you realize how what you say here is completely silly...
You are being told to take a picture but you are too ***** to set your camera to take it properly.
The uploaded result is a picture that is so dark you can't even see anything.
On top of that you "laugh at" the IPS result, not even realizing that such a bright picture is the result of the camera setting.
You don't even understand exaggerating the result with the camera settings (you are the only one who talks about using the screen at full brightness. Learn to read) is to make the flaw more apparent (like prad could do in their review to make ips glow apparent), hence why I said picture alone isn't enough to share something with others and further details are required to tell how it looks like with naked eyes.
And you don't understand neither the goal of this test, as we are wondering about gamma shift, is to check uniformity of the bars from one side to another, which IPS achieve perfectly contrary to VA (which is what the pictures show).
You are that clueless about it you haven't even put the patern in the right direction for your picture...
And you want to give me advice after that ? Lol. Pot calling the kettle black...
Take a proper picture and I bet we'll see your screens have the same issue other owners have encountered, instead of uploading crappy ones where we can't see anything and that can make some people think you are the super lucky guy who got 3 unaffected panels while everyone else talk about the issue on his screen...
Though I'm not sure taking a proper picture is something you are capable of given the incompetence you already have shown here and there. Shall I mention:
- your silly answer to my post
- the fact you were not able to spot clearly apparent cross hatching on a picture
- the fact you asked if cross hatching could be seen with naked eyes or just on a picture (yeah, we are wondering about a flaw we can't see with naked eyes...
)- the fact you learn 4k monitor is ran as 2 separated screens the day you receive it (I knew this without looking for infos on 4k screens)
- your laughable comparison picture with the rose in your fg2421 "review" ("Vega's review of the worlds first 120 Hz strobing backlight VA panel monitor" as you humbly called it
)And I could continue....
Get back on earth mate. Spending tons of money into hardware is not enough to set your feedback as reference. If you have no clue about what you are doing it will just be irrelevant feedback.I find sad some seem considering you as a guru just because tons of monitors you have had in your hands. It didn't took me long to realize how irrelevant your feedback was, and how the guru status some granted you have gone to your head as demonstrates the condescending behavior you have had with other users already...
Sorry everyone for this post but this was getting on my nerves. The goal of sharing feedback is to help others to take their decisions, not to lose them with irrelevant/biased feedback.
My mini review. I Haven't used 50+ monitors like Vega but I have been gaming on the pc for 17 years.
My previous monitor was an acer gd235 120hz and this eizo is far superior. TF2 is now incredibly smooth. Zero motion blur. 120hz is smooth but 240hz turbo is even smoother no ghosting and easier to track players.
Bf4 everything is very fluid. If you play fast paced action games this monitor was built for you.
Grid 2 racing silky smooth. Difference for this game not as big as fps games compared to 120hz but still a noticeable improvement.
The contrast on this monitor is incredible. Gaming is much more immersive and colors stand out more compared to my old monitor. Bf4 and grid 2 I see colors and details I did not see before. Lifelike quality sometimes get distracted by the beauty and end up dying =/.
There are a few cons. The edges are brighter on some colors like the panel is not uniform like many have said . I noticed this mostly while browsing on websites with a solid color background. Price could be a con it is pretty pricey but worth it for me. No cross hatching or dead pixels.
This is the first lcd I've used that reminds me of the crt days in terms of motion clarity and smoothness. That and the amazing colors and contrast make this monitor a big winner especially if you like fps, action and racing games.
My previous monitor was an acer gd235 120hz and this eizo is far superior. TF2 is now incredibly smooth. Zero motion blur. 120hz is smooth but 240hz turbo is even smoother no ghosting and easier to track players.
Bf4 everything is very fluid. If you play fast paced action games this monitor was built for you.
Grid 2 racing silky smooth. Difference for this game not as big as fps games compared to 120hz but still a noticeable improvement.
The contrast on this monitor is incredible. Gaming is much more immersive and colors stand out more compared to my old monitor. Bf4 and grid 2 I see colors and details I did not see before. Lifelike quality sometimes get distracted by the beauty and end up dying =/.
There are a few cons. The edges are brighter on some colors like the panel is not uniform like many have said . I noticed this mostly while browsing on websites with a solid color background. Price could be a con it is pretty pricey but worth it for me. No cross hatching or dead pixels.
This is the first lcd I've used that reminds me of the crt days in terms of motion clarity and smoothness. That and the amazing colors and contrast make this monitor a big winner especially if you like fps, action and racing games.
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Yes - it's worse on dark greys and browns.
Don't you realize how what you say here is completely silly...
You are being told to take a picture but you are too ***** to set your camera to take it properly.
The uploaded result is a picture that is so dark you can't even see anything.
On top of that you "laugh at" the IPS result, not even realizing that such a bright picture is the result of the camera setting.
You don't even understand exaggerating the result with the camera settings (you are the only one who talks about using the screen at full brightness. Learn to read) is to make the flaw more apparent (like prad could do in their review to make ips glow apparent), hence why I said picture alone isn't enough to share something with others and further details are required to tell how it looks like with naked eyes.
And you don't understand neither the goal of this test, as we are wondering about gamma shift, is to check uniformity of the bars from one side to another, which IPS achieve perfectly contrary to VA (which is what the pictures show).
You are that clueless about it you haven't even put the patern in the right direction for your picture...
And you want to give me advice after that ? Lol. Pot calling the kettle black...
Take a proper picture and I bet we'll see your screens have the same issue other owners have encountered, instead of uploading crappy ones where we can't see anything and that can make some people think you are the super lucky guy who got 3 unaffected panels while everyone else talk about the issue on his screen...
Though I'm not sure taking a proper picture is something you are capable of given the incompetence you already have shown here and there. Shall I mention:
- your silly answer to my post
- the fact you were not able to spot clearly apparent cross hatching on a picture
- the fact you asked if cross hatching could be seen with naked eyes or just on a picture (yeah, we are wondering about a flaw we can't see with naked eyes...
- the fact you learn 4k monitor is ran as 2 separated screens the day you receive it (I knew this without looking for infos on 4k screens)
- your laughable comparison picture with the rose in your fg2421 "review" ("Vega's review of the world’s first 120 Hz strobing backlight VA panel monitor" as you humbly called it
And I could continue....
Get back on earth mate. Spending tons of money into hardware is not enough to set your feedback as reference. If you have no clue about what you are doing it will just be irrelevant feedback.I find sad some seem considering you as a guru just because tons of monitors you have had in your hands. It didn't took me long to realize how irrelevant your feedback was, and how the guru status some granted you have gone to your head as demonstrates the condescending behavior you have had with other users already...
Sorry everyone for this post but this was getting on my nerves. The goal of sharing feedback is to help others to take their decisions, not to lose them with irrelevant/biased feedback.
It never ceases to amaze me the "experts" on displays and other hardware are always no-names that come out of nowhere with 2 week old accounts. You and Stargazer must be friends eh?
Let's pick apart your silly post shall we. The picture was taken at a night ISO setting and is a very accurate representation of the real world image. Have you ever thought that the picture appears darker because the panels display the image better/more appropriate and/or the other sources are over-exposed rubbish? Get a clue man. The point of taking a picture is to show as accurate of a representation of real world viewing as technically possible. Not to match some arbitrary random image taken from some guys Nokia flip phone in France.
As for image orientation, Ya, I am going to disassemble my entire Surround setup and put everything in landscape to upload some arbitrary photo for one new user to look at. Sure thing there guy..
Super lucky? Eh, all of those review sites that had none of these so-called "problems" are also "super lucky"? Or the people here and elsewhere that also have perfectly fine panels? We get it dude, you don't like Eizo, or who knows what else is going on there. I really don't care. Don't buy the monitor, it's that simple. No need to go rambling on about grey lines all over the internet like it's the end of the world. I will call you "grey line man" from now on. That incredibly edited photo you put up has nothing to do with reality and shows how desperate you are.
Not even sure what you are rambling incoherently on about cross-hatching. I clearly stated all three of my displays have light cross-hatching. I guess that is too complicated of an explanation for you to understand.
As for 4K monitors and multi-displays, your reading comprehension is abysmal. My question was in regard to if NVIDIA graphic cards could simultaneously run my 3x1 Portrait setup AND a 4K monitor which is treated as 2-display. That technically would be five outputs, something NVIDIA cannot do and are limited to 3+1 video signals. Obviously such technicalities are way above your head, or you wouldn't have made a fool of yourself not even understanding the question.
I've been doing this for a while "grey line man". Down through the years guys like you emerge from nowhere, think you know everything, make a few silly posts/comments, and then dissapear. Until you actually provide any meaningful info for the community outside of requesting photo's of grey lines on monitors, I suggest you let your account expire as quickly as it was made.
Good info vandit! Although there will be some slight brightness variation on the far right edge on certain colors, some people around here would have you believe it's the end of the world. It's interesting, even on white screens you see zero cross-hatching? I have just a little bit.
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Gotta agree with neel there, my cheap IPS actually does wonders on the bars test (mine has almost no glow but some visible clouding on the bottom right corner). Having good contrast matters, but to me so does having good uniformity. This Eizo loses (well it loses because it is also expensive by my standards, so input lag + crushed blacks + so-so uniformity add up).
And I don't see why people say colour accuracy is not important for gaming. If you don't just play competitive online games of course it matters, even if all games are probably not produced with calibrated screens, having your monitor calibrated is still the best way of enjoying the game in conditions as close as possible to the ones intended by the artists. Same debate as in the hi-fi world with coloured vs neutral gear. Feel free to prefer "coloured" gear but that does not make neutral/accurate gear useless or bad under any circumstances.
And I don't see why people say colour accuracy is not important for gaming. If you don't just play competitive online games of course it matters, even if all games are probably not produced with calibrated screens, having your monitor calibrated is still the best way of enjoying the game in conditions as close as possible to the ones intended by the artists. Same debate as in the hi-fi world with coloured vs neutral gear. Feel free to prefer "coloured" gear but that does not make neutral/accurate gear useless or bad under any circumstances.
Just really depends on what your priorities are. Deep/incredible blacks and contrast with some black crush of VA versus mediocre black/contrast of IPS with glowing corners but no black crush. If you put IPS glow into the panel uniformity realm, VA wins all categories in dark/contrasting scenes besides contrast shift/black crush. You see, most people will always defend/prefer whatever choice/current monitor type theirs is. It's a natural human reaction to validate that they made the right decision. I fortunately have the means to basically buy and keep whatever I want, so I may be in a more unique position than most for unbiased input. Same things happens with me and GPU's. I have four Titan's, two 290X's inbound and 2-4 780Ti Classifieds when they release to go over. I keep whoever wins.
Add on top of the list motion clarity of the Eizo versus the horrid blurring of all IPS panels, I don't even see them on the same planet for gaming. As for colors, I've used colorimeters on plenty of very accurate monitors and calibrated them. Wasn't impressed. A lot of games are already "pre-washed out" like the BF series to try and give it that realistic look. They already take into account vibrant monitors. Playing on a color calibrated display if you get the .icc profile to stick in game is very ho-hum and completely over-rated.
Add on top of the list motion clarity of the Eizo versus the horrid blurring of all IPS panels, I don't even see them on the same planet for gaming. As for colors, I've used colorimeters on plenty of very accurate monitors and calibrated them. Wasn't impressed. A lot of games are already "pre-washed out" like the BF series to try and give it that realistic look. They already take into account vibrant monitors. Playing on a color calibrated display if you get the .icc profile to stick in game is very ho-hum and completely over-rated.
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Michaelius
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For gaming I feel that uniformity of gradients is more important that exact color accuracy as you can accept bit more than typical dE <3
Well man, kalstoon
If the colour accuracy is dominant factor to gamers...then why the hell so man y of them use TN panels in 2d Lightboost hacked mode, when colours are not only inaccurate, but washed out, with low contrast, low brightness...
Sure, I bought my dell for colours(although this isn't perfect color monitor) and...it seems...for movie watchin, web browsing. I have less and less "lust" to play games, any games, because of blurr.
Now I c hope. Eizo. And maybe new Benq 27xxZ, but it appears to be TN again...
I wait a little(money is main factor to me, can't afford on that Eizo atm), see more reviews of this screen, maybe something new will appear, maybe Eizo will drop price...Then i buy the best atm and finally I can go back to gaming.
If the colour accuracy is dominant factor to gamers...then why the hell so man y of them use TN panels in 2d Lightboost hacked mode, when colours are not only inaccurate, but washed out, with low contrast, low brightness...
Sure, I bought my dell for colours(although this isn't perfect color monitor) and...it seems...for movie watchin, web browsing. I have less and less "lust" to play games, any games, because of blurr.
Now I c hope. Eizo. And maybe new Benq 27xxZ, but it appears to be TN again...
I wait a little(money is main factor to me, can't afford on that Eizo atm), see more reviews of this screen, maybe something new will appear, maybe Eizo will drop price...Then i buy the best atm and finally I can go back to gaming.
AwesomeOwl
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2011
- Messages
- 88
Please don't downplay the issue too much.. If you've seen my video, I think you'd agree that some samples have more bleed/color shift/glow/whatever than is acceptable, especially for a monitor in this price range. The stuff on mine isn't viewing angle dependent like I've made clear before, so it isn't inherent to the technology. It has that too, but it's basically negligible compared to the bleed/glow (unless you sit very close to the screen).
I should note that the problem was visible on any brightness level.
I mostly agree with neel here. It is hard to judge how good your screens are by the pictures you have posted. Your left screen looks a bit worse than the others, and it looks like it has that same thin strip of glow/bleed as mine. I obviously can't tell whats going on at the bottom of the screens.
As far as I'm concerned there still isn't any proof that really good samples are out there.
That black central blob on that pattern only appears on images, not in reality. I've tried it too, no idea why that illusion happens on camera. (maybe it does exist, and the brain just removes it from the pattern, can't say).
It's an exaggerated worst-case scenario illusion-inducing image that really has very little real-world relevance. (the darkening effect is there, but it looks 10-20 times worse on camera than IRL).
Also, color accuracy measured a few percent off on still images by an instrument does not matter one bit for gaming, perceived quality and maintaining that color accuracy in motion does.
This monitor can both display blacks (which aren't included in standard tests outside of contrast values), and maintain its (actually really quite good) color accuracy in quite fast motion.
Lets say that if this monitor can maintain 85-95% color accuracy in fps-speed motion, the best and fastest IPS/PLS would land at a fraction of that due to smearing of colors, inability do display black, etc. Add low lightning to to motion and count black as a color, and the best IPS/PLS in the world will probably only be something like 20-40% accurate and in addition have lower effective resolution due to blur. (pulled those numbers out of my ass, yes - probably not far from reality, though).
It would be very interesting to have a colorimeter chase-cam
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I am NOT saying there are panels out there with no problems. I am saying there are panels out there that are just fine. Do you have a link to your video? If it's bad, have you tried replacing it?
That photo I posted is an accurate representation of my displays in a pitch black room, with the TFT Central settings. There is just a hint of a brighter edge on the top (right side in landscape). As for "proof", I don't know what you expect. My photo is very accurate of what the displays look like in real life, and TFTCentral, the polish review site and plenty of others have seen no issues.
That black central blob on that pattern only appears on images, not in reality. I've tried it too, no idea why that illusion happens on camera. (maybe it does exist, and the brain just removes it from the pattern, can't say).
It's an exaggerated worst-case scenario illusion-inducing image that really has very little real-world relevance.
Also, color accuracy measured a few percent off on still images by an instrument does not matter one bit for gaming, perceived quality and maintaining that color accuracy in motion does.
This monitor can both display blacks (which aren't included in standard tests outside of contrast values), and maintain its (actually really quite good) color accuracy in quite fast motion.
Lets say that if this monitor can maintain 85-95% color accuracy in fps-speed motion, the best and fastest IPS/PLS would land at a fraction of that due to smearing of colors, inability do display black, etc. Add low lightning to to motion and count black as a color, and the best IPS/PLS in the world will probably only be something like 20-40% accurate and in addition have lower effective resolution due to blur. (pulled those numbers out of my ass, yes - probably not far from reality, though).
It would be very interesting to have a colorimeter chase-cam
A lot of people don't realize that. The Eizo may not be the #1 performer in all areas a display can be rated in, but it does an amazing job across the board as a gaming monitor. A lot people just don't understand that. It ticks more boxes than any other LCD monitor by a large margin for gaming. Strobing motion clarity with VA picture quality is a first and truly dramatic improvement in display tech. Is it perfect? No. No display will ever be perfect.
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elvn
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
- Messages
- 5,310
I always try to remind color accuracy/color calibration purists that allowing variable lighting conditions in your "studio" will completely alter the way your eyes perceive contrast, brightness, and saturation on your panel. People often have varying daylight, evening, and night lighting conditions without aggressively using supplemental lighting in an attempt to maintain the same levels throughout. Hitting the panel with direct light sources (almost impossible to avoid in the typical "bookshelf against the wall"/"catcher's mitt for light" desk setup), also pollutes the color space so that what is seen is nothing like what is usually calibrated using hardware right up against the monitor in a dark room. For that matter, such lighting conditions also pollute even AG coated monitors with translucent blobs rather than actual reflections.
Until an ips is intentionally manufactured to be 120hz input + backlight strobing for blur elimination the choices are pretty narrow currently for a superior gaming monitor.
I know I'm not alone in using a separate monitor for desktop/apps and another different type for gaming. I have done it for a long time. People and reviews trying to fit square pegs in round holes for an all-in-one solution are fooling themselves. There are many monitor traits separating the primary usage scenario benefits, some which include:
-rez/ppi/desktop real estate (esp. desktop/apps. 1st/3rd person games use HOR+ = same scene lower ppi)
-color accuracy/range, color uniformity
-continual gaming FoV movement blur periods that aren't even a definable solid grid resolution, also blurring of high speed action elements on television and in movies
-black levels/detail-in-blacks
-rez vs gpu gaming power/budget (1080 currently the "sweet spot" for enthusiast budgets at very high fps)
-high motion definition/animation definition/control definition and aesthetics(120hz+)
-amount of game world action slice updates shown (more often and sooner -> 120hz+)
-blur elimination (backlight strobing)
-input lag
-ghosting
-monitor coatings
-backlight bleed, glow at normalized brightness levels
Until an ips is intentionally manufactured to be 120hz input + backlight strobing for blur elimination the choices are pretty narrow currently for a superior gaming monitor.
I know I'm not alone in using a separate monitor for desktop/apps and another different type for gaming. I have done it for a long time. People and reviews trying to fit square pegs in round holes for an all-in-one solution are fooling themselves. There are many monitor traits separating the primary usage scenario benefits, some which include:
-rez/ppi/desktop real estate (esp. desktop/apps. 1st/3rd person games use HOR+ = same scene lower ppi)
-color accuracy/range, color uniformity
-continual gaming FoV movement blur periods that aren't even a definable solid grid resolution, also blurring of high speed action elements on television and in movies
-black levels/detail-in-blacks
-rez vs gpu gaming power/budget (1080 currently the "sweet spot" for enthusiast budgets at very high fps)
-high motion definition/animation definition/control definition and aesthetics(120hz+)
-amount of game world action slice updates shown (more often and sooner -> 120hz+)
-blur elimination (backlight strobing)
-input lag
-ghosting
-monitor coatings
-backlight bleed, glow at normalized brightness levels
elvn
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
- Messages
- 5,310
It would also only be most noticeable on very high detail / realistic textures. Many games now are console ports which have lower detail textures unless modded.
Also, regarding color accuracy, see my previous post about calibration environment/method (usually done in a dark room with hardware directly against the panel) differing greatly from actual usage gaming "studio"/setup environments which change what is actually seen by the user vs the calibrated numbers. The room setups themselves are enough to change how your eyes see (brightness, contrast, saturation), then add dynamic room lighting conditions and perhaps even the shadow profile of the user themselves shading the panel partially.
Zero blur trumps superior color accuracy for 1st/3rd person cgi perspective games anyway. period. So does 120hz+ of increased motion definition.
Also, regarding color accuracy, see my previous post about calibration environment/method (usually done in a dark room with hardware directly against the panel) differing greatly from actual usage gaming "studio"/setup environments which change what is actually seen by the user vs the calibrated numbers. The room setups themselves are enough to change how your eyes see (brightness, contrast, saturation), then add dynamic room lighting conditions and perhaps even the shadow profile of the user themselves shading the panel partially.
Zero blur trumps superior color accuracy for 1st/3rd person cgi perspective games anyway. period. So does 120hz+ of increased motion definition.