EDGE: New Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, new Kinect, specs are accurate

LeviathanZERO

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Sources with first-hand experience of Microsoft’s next generation console have told us...

Microsoft’s next console will require an Internet connection in order to function, ruling out a second-hand game market for the platform. A new iteration of Xbox Live will be an integral part of Microsoft’s next console, while improved Kinect hardware will also ship alongside the unit.

Sources with first-hand experience of Microsoft’s next generation console have told us that although the next Xbox will be absolutely committed to online functionality, games will still be made available to purchase in physical form. Next Xbox games will be manufactured on 50GB-capacity Blu-ray discs, Microsoft having conceded defeat to Sony following its ill-fated backing of the HD-DVD format. It is believed that games purchased on disc will ship with activation codes, and will have no value beyond the initial user.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/the...hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/

Is it possible to keep this thread civil? it begins...
Oh boy...
 
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EPOQ

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Haha, wow. If this is true GameStop should probably just throw in the towel now rather than later.
 

SeymourGore

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I guess this would be the final nail in the coffin for video game rentals.

Hopefully the next iteration of Xbox Live will offer feature parity between Silver and PSN (free apps, free multiplayer, etc).

As for the 'always on' Internet connection - yikes. Depending how strict it is, it could be a deal breaker for me. I'm out in the country and there are days when my internet is nowhere near stable, so if this results in my not being able to play my console (or constantly having to wait for my connection to reconnect) - well, yeah... crappy.
 

Demon10000

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Microsoft’s next console will require an Internet connection in order to function, ruling out a second-hand game market for the platform

I can't read the article because I'm blocked... but how does requiring an internet rule out the second hand game market?
 

Ididar

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Always connected would certainly be an issue at times. If your area suffers from internet disruptions and nobody can play their Xbox games? Not exactly going to go over well I think.
 

SeymourGore

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I can't read the article because I'm blocked... but how does requiring an internet rule out the second hand game market?

There's rumoured to be 'Activation codes' that would ship with the physical media, tying the game to the console in question. Not sure if this means that the console would need to verify the activation code online each time you want to play it. :confused:
 

Nimisys

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I would be highly surprised if it was truly online always required. a significant loss of capability without an active connection is likely, but a complete loss of usage seems doubtful. the market place will not tolerate it. even if it a connection is available 99% of the time, telling someone their console can't play game (its core function) without net access will be too much for most people.

i'll even call out the killing of the second hand market, a significant figure in the xbox sales reports is the average number of games each owner has, which last I heard was more than 8, compared to the 3 of PS3 and single of Wii. the more games, the more invested in the platform, and more likely to purchase high profit items such as DLC and media rentals. eliminating secondhand market will make a negative impact in this market. more likely you will see more of a games extra functions tied to new media purchase activations codes, ala ME3 Multiplayer or Forza 3/4 car/track collections. such a move will give incentive to new purchases, but still allow second hand markets and allow for the high profit sale of activation codes to restore functionality.
 

kbrickley

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I also am highly skeptical of a 100% online requirement ... might certain games try it (along the lines of D3), sure ... might the system require periodic internet connections to phone home, possibly ... 100% online for the console itself is just one big barrel of trouble, unless they figure out a way for software to reside in the cloud only and not on the console ... only in that circumstance could they make 100% fly (and I don't think the logistics are there yet ... maybe for the next generation) ;)
 

bigdogchris

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Haha, wow. If this is true GameStop should probably just throw in the towel now rather than later.
Microsoft is going the "Apple Model" for it's OSes and software, so this doesn't suprise me. Kinda funny though that MSFT is giving a big middle finger to the company that is probably the #1 distributor of their legal, new sales.

In an economy where people don't have a lot of cash to blow on high priced toys, this move kinda boggles me. I don't think piracy on consoles is as big of a cost to MSFT as shipping consoles for 4 years that RRoD.

I sell my new games when I'm done playing (on PS3), so if this ends up being true I'm definitely not buying a new XBOX. Hopefully the PS4 will embrace used sales and want that segment of the market.
 

Plague_Injected

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Fuck. That. Shit. All of the downsides to PC gaming with absolutely none of the benefits...not even one.

I'm hoping this is bogus.
 

ElGuapo242

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Microsoft is going the "Apple Model" for it's OSes and software, so this doesn't suprise me. Kinda funny though that MSFT is giving a big middle finger to the company that is probably the #1 distributor of their legal, new sales.

In an economy where people don't have a lot of cash to blow on high priced toys, this move kinda boggles me. I don't think piracy on consoles is as big of a cost to MSFT as shipping consoles for 4 years that RRoD.

I sell my new games when I'm done playing (on PS3), so if this ends up being true I'm definitely not buying a new XBOX. Hopefully the PS4 will embrace used sales and want that segment of the market.

You can bet your ass Sony is going to implement something similar to stop the secondary game market. Sony and MS do not like used games sales.
 

Tytalus

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If activation codes are what the industry wants then Microsoft and Sony would be wise to implement such functionality. Unlike a PC software developer who can "roll their own" DRM (or use an off-the-shelf product) developers on the console are somewhat limited regarding options and availability of lockdown mechanisms to prevent what they feel is inappropriate resale of their digital medium. Whether or not you believe this is a first sale doctrine issue or some other legal issue is irrelevant--for now game developers are allowed to lock down their content and require authentication at their sole discretion.

I assume Microsoft and/or Sony would simply be extending and centralizing this process to bring consistency to the model, not unlike a Steam developer being allowed to use the SteamWorks API if they so choose. I'm guessing that there'd be no requirement to use such a feature (just like there's no requirement that states a game must use the XBOX achievement API, or that every available feature of the XBOX Live API must be used) and that it'd be just one more tool available to those developers who wish to use it.
 

bazylik

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If true this might be the biggest fail in gaming console history ever...

but I don't really buy it, it's way too restrictive
 

rudy

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You can bet your ass Sony is going to implement something similar to stop the secondary game market. Sony and MS do not like used games sales.

You cant know this yet, while eventually all consoles will do this, as we move in that direction it is obvious that some players will try to use the availability of used games as a selling point. The big draw to the PS3 was not games or anything, it was the blu ray, now that MS has that what does SONY have? So they are going to need some sort of selling points. Well used games could be one, not saying it is, but last gen SONY made a bunch of empty promises for backwards compatibility and open nature to sell consoles, of course eventually they retracted many of those stances but they may play similar tactics next time around, especially if their consoles is more expensive or later to market.
 

djoye

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It will also require an app to validate your game ownership. This app will require a Live Gold subscription to function and the game won't function until it is validated/activated.

/rumor
 

rudy

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Fuck. That. Shit. All of the downsides to PC gaming with absolutely none of the benefits...not even one.

I'm hoping this is bogus.

Actually they still have all the important benifits that consoles have always relied on for the majority of their sales. 1 loss leader low intro price. 2 static platform for many years even if it sucks some people view this as a selling point. 3 locked down nature of software to block some cheating, 4 and probably the most important the backing of a multibillion dollar company that will advertise the living shit out of it to move units something completely missing for PC gaming.
 

demingo

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I sell my new games when I'm done playing (on PS3), so if this ends up being true I'm definitely not buying a new XBOX. Hopefully the PS4 will embrace used sales and want that segment of the market.

Used games sales aren't a "market" when it comes to Sony/Microsoft. They do not benefit at all. It's a no brainer they will do this.
 

MaZa

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Oh my God... Everyone one has been hinting that Sony will pull this stunt and now this.

Looks like WiiU may be the winner of next generation afterall. For I do not intent to buy either console if they limit used game market. Now, I rarely buy used games but its my right to do so if I so wish and I refuse to support any wide scale attempts to prevent that.

Please let this be just a rumor, pretty please...
 

Occidio

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This has been talked about in the past and I have already seen some of the beginnings of it. Look at something like Saints Row 3. You had to have a code to play online.
I personally do not buy used games so this is no big deal to me. A company like Gamefly will be the hardest hit. Game rentals will essentially disappear but places like gamestop can still survive since they sell new games and systems. I still have all the games I have bought in the past. Call me old school but I always keep every game I have bought.
 

Kinsaras

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This has been talked about in the past and I have already seen some of the beginnings of it. Look at something like Saints Row 3. You had to have a code to play online.
I personally do not buy used games so this is no big deal to me. A company like Gamefly will be the hardest hit. Game rentals will essentially disappear but places like gamestop can still survive since they sell new games and systems. I still have all the games I have bought in the past. Call me old school but I always keep every game I have bought.

Not just Saints Row 3. Tons of games have Online Passes now. Almost Sony's whole library and Ubisoft games (like Assassin's Creed 3), even crappy online multiplayer games like Metal of Honor, Dead Space 2 and FEAR3 has them.
 

demingo

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As gamers we need to step away and take a realistic look at how our entertainment is priced.

Back in the 16bit days new games went for $39.99 - $49.99 with a very up to $79.99 (usually to cover the cost of extra storage on the cart). The budget for a game back then ranged from $300k to $500k with massive games coming up to $1m. In today's age the average game sells for $59.99. The average cost to develop a game is around $10-20 million and up for $100m for large AAA titles (GTA4 as an example).

While the market has grown and more copies per game are sold, the reality is that we've seen about a 20% increase in price and a 1000% increase in cost (on the lower end of budgets). Simply put, developers and publishers don't work for free. If we expect huge AAA titles with great visuals, sound, voice acting, etc, the money has to come from somewhere. Budgets for games are exploding and sales aren't keeping up with the cost to make these.
 

exlink

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I only buy used games for consoles due to the sheer cost of new games. Very, VERY rarely do I ever pay the full $60 retail for a game (last one was Battlefield 3 in 2011). If this is true then I'll just stick to PC gaming and Steam sales. Sure console games are sometimes on sale for $30-$40, but Steam has them on sale for $5-$15...that's much more appealing.

Since Sony recently just patented software that eliminates the ability to play used games for presumably their next console and now this with Microsoft...it looks like both the big dogs are getting greedy. If they're going to require all games to be purchased new then their revenue from game sales should skyrocket; in return I believe that they should at least lower MSRPs for new games back to at the very least $50. Sure, it costs a lot to develop games, but factoring in that used game market will be non-existant (thus eliminating the lost revenue from resales), they could easily survive with marginal profits with the lower new game prices that people would be forced to pay to play.
 

BladeVenom

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Gamestop shouldn't even carry it, and hope it fails. Like others have said, this is bad news for game stores that depend on the used game market.
 

Marcdaddy

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This would suck big time, I have 2 kids and multiple systems, most games we have one copy and share it unless it something we all play online, so if this was to happen I would buy only one system ( if any at all ) and less games. Oh well back to full time PC gaming, it looks better anyway.
 

MrCrispy

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So MS and Sony are competing to see who can screw users the hardest? Maybe they'll try to 1up each other on how many restrictions they can place and how much DRM is present.

If any of this is true, next gen is looking like a complete fail.
 

Maplehamwich

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The more I hear about the new Xbox, the more it confirms my decision to stay away.

Also, I am glad to see the consoles starting to get the ridiculous DRM the PC receives. Maybe the masses can start complaining about how stupid it is and we could see a change finally.
 

lilbabycat

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While the market has grown and more copies per game are sold, the reality is that we've seen about a 20% increase in price and a 1000% increase in cost (on the lower end of budgets). Simply put, developers and publishers don't work for free.

Where do you get this 1000% increase in price number? Especially on the lower end? We all know the ridiculous upper end (where games like MW3 have a higher marketing budget than development budget), but a smaller dev, has a 1000% increase in cost from what?
 

jbonez21

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The more I hear about the new Xbox, the more it confirms my decision to stay away.

Also, I am glad to see the consoles starting to get the ridiculous DRM the PC receives. Maybe the masses can start complaining about how stupid it is and we could see a change finally.

The key difference is that the PC has demos available for most games and cheaper prices. Buying a PS4 or Nextbox game for a steep $59.99 and having ridiculous DRM would be terrible.

I don't mind paying the $10-40 that most PC games cost.
 

MrCrispy

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As gamers we need to step away and take a realistic look at how our entertainment is priced.

Back in the 16bit days new games went for $39.99 - $49.99 with a very up to $79.99 (usually to cover the cost of extra storage on the cart). The budget for a game back then ranged from $300k to $500k with massive games coming up to $1m. In today's age the average game sells for $59.99. The average cost to develop a game is around $10-20 million and up for $100m for large AAA titles (GTA4 as an example).

While the market has grown and more copies per game are sold, the reality is that we've seen about a 20% increase in price and a 1000% increase in cost (on the lower end of budgets). Simply put, developers and publishers don't work for free. If we expect huge AAA titles with great visuals, sound, voice acting, etc, the money has to come from somewhere. Budgets for games are exploding and sales aren't keeping up with the cost to make these.

AAA titles that cost a lot of money and are really good make a lot of profit, usually in the 1st week.
Those that are crap and depend on hype/pre order DLC but turn out to be crap lose money. And they deserve to.

Used games help customers, and they help developers. No one is going to spend $60 if all they can afford is $15 or a $5 rental. But if they like the game, they are much more likely to buy the sequel and invest in the franchise.
 

mavrocket

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News from January 2014:

"Sales of the Xbox 720 and PS4 were dramatically lower than anticipated, prompting billion dollar losses for Microsoft and Sony in the fourth quarter of 2013. Those hesitant to purchase the gaming systems cite restrictive digital rights management , cost of the new systems, as well as restrictions on using rented or used games as reasons to pass on the systems this year. Executives from both Microsoft and Sony are disappointed in the reports, however both companies are expecting more widespread adoption as potential consumers learn to adapt to the differences between the prior generation systems and this year's newest arrivals.

"In other news, it was another record-breaking year for tablet and small-form factor PC's, which are becoming ever more prevalent as their prices continue to lower and take a larger chunk of the home gaming system market. Later tonight, don't miss our exclusive interview with Gave Newell, who's new small-form factor PC, nicknamed the 'Steam Box' is becoming the entertainment device of choice in more and more American households."

Long live the PC.
 

DeathPrincess

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So when they dump this Xbox like they dumped the Live support for the first one it will be completely useless and you'll have to upgrade to do anything with it? :p
 

cthulhuiscool

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I'll take this as more sales for steam, I wish valve were publicly traded, the valve box if handled right could tear the big 3 a new one
 

demingo

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Where do you get this 1000% increase in price number? Especially on the lower end? We all know the ridiculous upper end (where games like MW3 have a higher marketing budget than development budget), but a smaller dev, has a 1000% increase in cost from what?

Cost of game development through the years.

Crysis $22 Million

Halo 3 $60 Million

Call of Duty MW2 $40 Million

And so on. Most game budgets are around $10 million for a AAA console release.

MrCrispy said:
AAA titles that cost a lot of money and are really good make a lot of profit, usually in the 1st week.
Those that are crap and depend on hype/pre order DLC but turn out to be crap lose money. And they deserve to.

Horribly generic and invalid statement.

L.A. Noire didn't sell enough to make up its $50m+ budget

Bulletstorm doesn't sell enough to be viable

People constantly complain about not getting enough new IPs and too many sequels but when developers and publishers try something new, it just doesn't pan out. If a developer wants to make a new AAA IP game, they need a huge budget to attract attention. We see it on Hardocp all the time. People want DX11 features, longer than 6 hour games, games with no bugs. All of that costs a ton of money. And when developers take risks, it doesn't always work.

Gaming is not a right nor are developers and publishers charities. It costs a lot of money to make these games and the cost of development has far outpaced the cost at retail.
 

demingo

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News from January 2014:

"Sales of the Xbox 720 and PS4 were dramatically lower than anticipated, prompting billion dollar losses for Microsoft and Sony in the fourth quarter of 2013. Those hesitant to purchase the gaming systems cite restrictive digital rights management , cost of the new systems, as well as restrictions on using rented or used games as reasons to pass on the systems this year. Executives from both Microsoft and Sony are disappointed in the reports, however both companies are expecting more widespread adoption as potential consumers learn to adapt to the differences between the prior generation systems and this year's newest arrivals.

"In other news, it was another record-breaking year for tablet and small-form factor PC's, which are becoming ever more prevalent as their prices continue to lower and take a larger chunk of the home gaming system market. Later tonight, don't miss our exclusive interview with Gave Newell, who's new small-form factor PC, nicknamed the 'Steam Box' is becoming the entertainment device of choice in more and more American households."

Long live the PC.

Shit on consoles for DRM and no used games/rentals... Praise Gabe Newell for Steam.. which has no used games/rentals...

Double standard much? :rolleyes:
 
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