eBay luck ran out - fraudulent return

Discussion in 'eBay Auctions' started by EnderW, May 8, 2019.

  1. isp

    isp 2[H]4U

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    Yep. No returns is just a good way to possibly weed out potential buyers who aren't even sure if they really want the product and may already be thinking about the return scenario. If they're already thinking a return is possible I'd prefer that they just move on and buy the next guy's item.
     
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  2. MyNameIsAlex

    MyNameIsAlex Limp Gawd

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    Smart- I have my ebay set up with no retruns. The only problem is that that means no returns if the item is working properly- sometimes the guy will take your i9, want to return it, realize he can't, then manually apply 2 volts to it with no HS or fan installed and THEN return it for real.
     
  3. EnderW

    EnderW [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Small update. I uploaded the pictures of the matrix code and sent another message tell him to make sure his BIOS was up to date and that any returns would need to match the serial number. Still 0 response since first message.

    I’m expecting him to wait until the escalate to eBay option is available and do that.
     
  4. EnderW

    EnderW [H]ardForum Junkie

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  5. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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  6. EnderW

    EnderW [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I should have known better and at least googled his address before shipping it. Would have found that post then and could have avoided this.

    I think I was just in a hurry to get my stuff shipped out as I had several items and I was doing it at the end of the day so wasn’t thinking the clearest. Combine that with the fact that I’ve had a decade of little trouble including shipping to suspicious looking address before and that’s how I slipped up.

    You gotta stay diligent. I’m hopeful I can win the oncoming fight but I’ve already learned a lesson. Hopefully it’s not too hard of a lesson.
     
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  7. blackbeasst

    blackbeasst 2[H]4U

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  8. EnderW

    EnderW [H]ardForum Junkie

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    eBay decided in his favor gave him a refund before I even got a tracking number for the return.

    I tweeted the @askeBay account on Twitter and sent them DMs. And I filed an appeal on the website including links to that Bad Buy post.

    Woke up this morning to Victory. eBay reversed their decision and money is back in my account. #feelsgoodman
     
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  9. AaronGant

    AaronGant Limp Gawd

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    Wow, I'm surprised that it ended up in your favor! I'm glad it worked out. You mind giving more details on what you said to their twitter account and on the appeal?
     
  10. NIZMOZ

    NIZMOZ [H]ard|Gawd

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    Doing due diligence always works! Never give up! :)
     
  11. EnderW

    EnderW [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Basically I just told them I was being targeted by a known scammer and linked to that bad buyer site. After they refunded the guy and made a “final decision” I filed an appeal and told them I had not received the item back or even a tracking number. I was very surprised to see the message this morning. I was expecting a harder fight. But I’m very thankful to have my money back. $500 would be a big hit.

    One thing I think I’ll do going forward is avoid selling ultra high end parts on eBay. I figure if someone is looking to scam a seller, no reason to go for second tier parts, just go for the top. For example, 9900K is the top end chip. Probably less of a chance selling a i5 or older gen i7. Just a theory.
     
  12. NIZMOZ

    NIZMOZ [H]ard|Gawd

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    Agreed. I stopped selling large ticket items on Ebay. Anything $250 and over Ebay doesn't get it. I will sell local, here, and even on Reddit HardwareSwap. Scammers don't go to the trouble to build accounts and get access to the FS area like here as Ebay gives them instant access. I just sold a $5k laptop on here to a great user, and I didn't even hesitate dealing with him. That says a lot.
     
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  13. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders 2[H]4U

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    Same here. I sold a loaded Macbook Pro a few years ago here. The transaction was smooth as silk and because I can see user history here (and you can generally assume someone with years of posting and trading isn't going to flake) I can actually feel confident when shipping something out - as opposed to Ebay where I would have a panic attack every time I dropped the item off for shipping...
     
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  14. EnderW

    EnderW [H]ardForum Junkie

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    One rule to live by is “don’t sell on eBay if you can’t afford to lose your money”

    Chances are you will be fine, but if your financial situation is such that you can’t afford to take a chance, then don’t.

    I still plan to sell on eBay but anything hardware related and over $100 will be listed here first. And I’ll be researching addresses extensively before shipping and checking the bad buyer site. And I might just outright cancel any purchases from new accounts with 0 feedback.
     
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  15. NIZMOZ

    NIZMOZ [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yep, that is what I sold. Was my 2018.5 MBP 15", loaded to the hill. hehe. :)
     
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  16. dexvx

    dexvx [H]ard|Gawd

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    Have to remember a lot of these scammers are not used to people fighting back the "correct" way. They try and use your anger of being scammed against you.

    But yea, I avoid selling expensive or "hot" items. For the more niche products (like I collect vintage hardware), you really have no choice. I sold a vintage motherboard/CPU combo for like $150 (and it was overpriced) to some guy with 0 feedback. Was worried, but 6 months later, no issues.
     
  17. Spartacus09

    Spartacus09 Gawd

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    I felt the same way I sold a drobo and macbook pro, both 400+ no feedback from either of them but they didnt complain or note any issues either. That was end of last year
     
  18. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris [H]ard as it Gets

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    In about 15 years I've been screwed twice. Once I sold a digital code for a DLC item. The guy claimed it didn't work so I had to refund him, there was no way to prove he just took the code and said it wouldn't work. It was only $10.

    The other time I sold a GPU. I had taken a bunch of pictures. Guy said the card didn't work and wanted a refund. I got the card back and there were plastic pieces and what looked to be glue coming out of the box after I removed it. The card was clearly tampered with, it looked like he removed the cooler and did something to it. eBay refunded him but I fought it with pictures showing the before and after. Eventually they also offered me my money back (that they removed from my account and gave him). We both got to keep the money, so eBay ate it.
     
  19. dexvx

    dexvx [H]ard|Gawd

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    Just FYI, there are ways to mitigate the damage of certain types of scams. This is all a function of how much time you want to spend.

    The send to same zip code scam
    Simply ask the delivery company (USPS/UPS/Fedex) for the destination address of the tracking number. Show them that you are getting this as part of an eBay return. They will look it up for you. If the destination address does NOT match the address of your eBay/Paypal account, then its very likely the decision will close in your favor.

    The switcharoo
    Assuming the tracking number is headed to your address and depending on on how much time you want to spend, you can ask USPS to hold your mail. Then, when the item comes, you can go to the USPS office to retrieve the item. Print out a sheet of paper that asks the desk clerk validate that the item you received matches the item in eBay auction #NNNNNN. On that sheet of paper, mention that your mail has been on hold and the package has never left the USPS facility. You can also take pics (with full exif data). Finally, have the desk clerk sign and date it. Now you have third party evidence, from a Federal Employee backing your claim up. Casually mention that unless this claim is dropped, you will go after the buyer for Federal mail fraud (regardless of eBay's final decision).

    Technically, you can still go after them for Federal mail fraud anyways, because an eBay settlement is not a legal settlement.
     
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  20. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles [H]ard|Gawd

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    Good advice for sure. Too bad ebay seems to keep letting these idiots set up new accounts. They have been running these graphics cards scams for over a year. You would think ebay would know exactly what to look for by now...
     
  21. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders 2[H]4U

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    I am 99% sure any USPS post office employee is going to tell you to take a hike if you ask them to verify specific Ebay auction details...
     
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  22. dexvx

    dexvx [H]ard|Gawd

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    Mine did not. You just show them a picture of the auction item and you open the package in front of them. I pre-printed a form that was very succinct. They literally just circled (yes/no), signed and dated it. You have to make it clear that USPS would NOT have any liability in this, that this is solely for a third party witness.

    What this does is two things:
    1. It never leaves the possession of USPS. For some reason, people think taking a video of them opening the box is good enough. It's not. Scammers will claim that you opened the box beforehand and put something different inside. By making sure it never left the possession of USPS (via mail hold), they cannot use the tampering argument.

    2. Third party impartial witness. USPS has absolutely zero stake in this.

    Above takes a LOT of time and effort. I wouldn't do this unless you're pretty damn sure its going to be a switcharoo. Not sure about UPS/Fedex returns.
     
  23. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders 2[H]4U

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    Sounds like you lucked out there. Like I said, I think most employees are just going to go "uhh, I want no part in this, it's not something we do" and leave you hanging. Obviously it's great that it worked out in your particular case though.
     
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  24. Spartacus09

    Spartacus09 Gawd

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    It likely depends on your PO, how busy it is, and how many agents are there/how well they know you.
    I ship enough stuff reselling things here and on ebay they recognize me, I know at least 2 of them that work in the morning I feel would likely do that for me.
     
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  25. D4hPr0

    D4hPr0 Gawd

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    I recently went through the same shit and never gave up. With a bit of luck and persistence, I got my money back. They are exploiting the loophole in USPS tracking that doesnt show the exact address. Ebay will refund them and there is nothing you can do about that, but you cant give up. Use the tracking number and get the postal inspector involved to get the complete tracking and that should be enough for eBay to reverse their decision. I was scammed by the same guy that scammed the guy in the link below. Last 3 comments are from me. If you have any questions, LMK.

    Moral of the story, never sell to 0 feedback buyers, just cancel the sale and face bad feedback.

    https://badbuyerlist.org/buyer/8fc90c6ce4cf50c044dbe21c
     
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  26. dexvx

    dexvx [H]ard|Gawd

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    That's a bit harsh. I would say combine with 0 feedback and a PO or rented mailbox.
     
  27. D4hPr0

    D4hPr0 Gawd

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    Honestly, they are even shipping to foreclosed homes so it's hard to say. Bigger sellers on eBay have insurance and can write this off as a loss. I'm better off just selling it here actually.
     
  28. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    i am glad i only buy on ebay.

    fuck selling. local or GTFO
     
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  29. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    An easy tell is if the buyer ID looks like a randomly generated name.

    Who that is a legit buyer or seller is going to make a username of G57%hjuw ?
     
  30. Sparky

    Sparky 2[H]4U

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    Seller scammed me years ago. He used a Pristine baseball card pic and sent me the same player card but in much worse condition. Baseball cards are all about condition. Ebay ruled in his favor.
     
  31. Verge

    Verge [H]ardness Supreme

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    wow. Must have been a long time ago, buyers can get away with murder these days. The percentage of times they side with buyers has to be 99.9
     
  32. MMitch

    MMitch Gawd

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    Ebay should require S/N pictures of stuff sold and provide their own service of shipping with tracking using 3rd parties.
    Maybe do a man in the middle of shipment and open box to confirm what is inside ?

    Yeah this would raise price but should lower scam attempts ?
     
  33. blackbeasst

    blackbeasst 2[H]4U

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    and if you initiate the cancel you'll get a mark on your account for it. which over time will catch up with you in the form of being a "below standard seller".
     
  34. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yea. I always put in my listing, "if you have 0 feeback I reserve the right to cancel and give full refund"

    Also one of the reasons I try to sell here first. I rather discount here then pay ebay fees. Ebay is usually my last resort for computer parts.

    Good luck though, ebay really will go out of their way to satisfy buyers.
     
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  35. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    buyee.jp does this for Yahoo! Japan auctions. They just recently started allowing you to not have them be the man-in-the-middle to check packages with the caveat that they can't guarantee that you will get what you bought.

    Thing is.. for a lot of stuff, even if you have a man-in-the-middle party checking stuff, scammers could still get away with stuff fairly easily IF they send something very similar looking such as remarked CPUs or other hardware such as those Chinese scammy reflashed GPUs.
     
  36. MMitch

    MMitch Gawd

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    Yeah well CPU should be different pin-out and flashed GPU should be easily disputed once you receive it and compare against real products (Given the man in the middle also take picture so they can confirm what you complain about is the item they saw).
    It wouldn't be perfect for sure but could be a start and they could set some algorithm to reduce the workload (like, always check 0 people, skip 2$ products, skip 10000+ accounts with no complaint in 1 month, etc).
     
  37. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    CPUs for the same socket could easily be remarked.

    Take the 2011 and 2011-v3 sockets for example. You could buy up a bunch of super low end server chips and then remark them as the high end chips and a man-in-the-middle would not know the difference unless they actually tested the CPUs or had somebody that knew that they could read the little square code on the substrate itself in order to verify it is what it says it is.

    Bringing in people that could actually do this would make prices skyrocket. They wouldn't hire anybody to do any anything other than a cursory verification that the product they received looks similar to what the buyer is expecting to receive.

    Even with just a cursory verification of stuff, it would add a good $10-$15 US minimum for each item not including the extra shipping cost and time. You have to take into account:
    1. Shipping to man-in-the-middle
    2. Time to open package
    3. Time to take pictures
    4. Time to generate documentation
    5. Time for second person to verify documentation
    6. Time to re-package
    7. Shipping to customer

    As for fraudulent returns, I would be all for a man-in-the-middle set up for expensive items and for new accounts. Guessing that them implementing something like that would reduce the amount of fraudulent returns to just about 0.
     
  38. MMitch

    MMitch Gawd

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    Yeah I agree it's complicated and would add cost but having an opt-in / opt-out with some cases it auto flag checks (scam returns, low history seller), I see ways to minimize how many times it happens and share cost along all items sold. Yeah some will complain that they pay a small fee and not even use it but the overall experience should be better. Think about it, wild guess is only ~10% items should be checked and cost could be shared across 100% of item sold thru the fees they collect. The PR and customer experience alone should offset the cost with more items sold after some time.

    Anyway, I live in fairy world I guess :)
     
  39. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    eBay fees are already too high, especially when you add in the Paypal fees. If the fees go yup much more, a lot of sellers are going to jump ship and go sell elsewhere.
     
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  40. MMitch

    MMitch Gawd

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    You're right, sorry I've never sold so don't know how much fees are. The service could be offered to sellers on possible fraudulent returns although there's no way to confirm you shipped the item in first place. (Although 10000 accounts should be safe per say).
    There's no perfect solution, wish ebay / paypal would eat up the cost of such system for the sake of the reputation of the system. We'll see how it pans out but me personally I haven't bought on ebay in ages.

    I think it was MUCH safer when I created my account, took a month to get it verified lol with all their checkups.