Easy to go from 32bit vista business to 64bit?

oplin

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Just wondering what the upgrade path here is? I'm guessing i have to wipe out the os partition and do a clean install, and reinstall all programs? Usually wouldn't be a problem but it's my work computer and it'd take a day or 2 to reconfigure everything, not sure if that'd fly.
 

Joe Average

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Yep. You can't "upgrade" from a 32 bit OS to a 64 bit one, it requires a clean installation of the OS as you can't just dump the 64 bit one on top of what's already on the drive. Too many differences, even if you're using the same OS (Vista Business) just in 32 bit form.
 

oplin

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Anyone know if a 32bit oem key from dell will work on a 64bit oem install? I saw this asked all over the place but with no clear answer. I heard the keys were hardware locked and so they should work on both versions. It worked on xp i guess but others thought they fixed that loophole in vista. Anybody no for sure?
 

RedLancerOz

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i have successfully used a OEM key from 32bit home an installed 64bit home , didnt even have to call
 

Zero82z

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Anyone know if a 32bit oem key from dell will work on a 64bit oem install? I saw this asked all over the place but with no clear answer. I heard the keys were hardware locked and so they should work on both versions. It worked on xp i guess but others thought they fixed that loophole in vista. Anybody no for sure?

It will work fine. Vista serial numbers are cross-compatible between 32 and 64-bit.
 

l3ender

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To straighten up what others are saying:

A key will work on either 32 or 64-bit. The architecture doesn't matter.

But since the key is an OEM (OEM is tied to one install) on a Dell, you cannot (well, are not supposed to) reinstall on another computer using the same key. The key in this case is tied only to the Dell computer.
 

Catweazle

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No. OEM keys only work for the specific architecture.

As others are saying, that claim is not technically correct.

OEM keys entitle you to a license for only the one architecture, and entitle you to the installation media for only the one architecture. But the practical reality is that if you use the key with the alternate architecture installation media, it'll work just fine. You'll end up with an installation which, although 'working' in every practical respect, will not be a legally valid licensed installation.

It'll activate, validate, update, whatever-ate. But it still won't be legally defensible in a court case, if you ever suffered the unlikely outcome of being taken to court about it.
 

BinarySynapse

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As others are saying, that claim is not technically correct.

OEM keys entitle you to a license for only the one architecture, and entitle you to the installation media for only the one architecture. But the practical reality is that if you use the key with the alternate architecture installation media, it'll work just fine. You'll end up with an installation which, although 'working' in every practical respect, will not be a legally valid licensed installation.

It'll activate, validate, update, whatever-ate. But it still won't be legally defensible in a court case, if you ever suffered the unlikely outcome of being taken to court about it.

I seriously doubt MS will risk losing a suit over a 64-bit vs 32bit license issue, EULA legitimacy issues aside. Most judges will see that he legally installed Windows Vista whatever and not get the difference between 64bit and 32bit. If asked to show the difference, they won't be able to spot it. When asked to show what features the 64bit version offers that the 32bit doesn't, there won't be any differences. For all intents and purposes, Windows Vista whatever is Windows Vista whatever to them. 32 and 64 are just confusing computer terms.
 

Joe Average

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The way I read that second post with this question:

Anyone know if a 32bit oem key from dell will work on a 64bit oem install?

is that he'd like to use an OEM key from a Dell box towards the installation of the same OS but in a 64 bit version. What I don't get is the Dell reference, because if this is done on a Dell - meaning it's got Vista Business 32 bit on it now, and he wants to install Vista Business 64 bit - he shouldn't need to input the key at all as long as he has the Dell Vista Business x64 media to do it.

If he's using some ordinary OEM copy or media for Vista Business x64 (all Vista DVDs are the same, this is well established, apart from 1 32 bit installation DVD and 1 64 bit installation DVD) and thinks he can use the Dell OEM key on the COA sticker, he'll more than likely be dead in the water when the attempt is made to activate. Those keys aren't meant to be activated; they're on the sticker primarily just to have one on the sticker which is what actually determines the legal ownership.

As for the "specific architecture" reference, I don't think that poster was talking about architecture in terms of 32 bit or 64 bit, I think he was referring to the OEM branding, like Dell copies for Dell, HP for HP, etc. I could be wrong, but that's how I interpret his statement about "specific architecture" - it's the OEM branding tie-in.
 

BinarySynapse

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The way I read that second post with this question:



is that he'd like to use an OEM key from a Dell box towards the installation of the same OS but in a 64 bit version. What I don't get is the Dell reference, because if this is done on a Dell - meaning it's got Vista Business 32 bit on it now, and he wants to install Vista Business 64 bit - he shouldn't need to input the key at all as long as he has the Dell Vista Business x64 media to do it.

If he's using some ordinary OEM copy or media for Vista Business x64 (all Vista DVDs are the same, this is well established, apart from 1 32 bit installation DVD and 1 64 bit installation DVD) and thinks he can use the Dell OEM key on the COA sticker, he'll more than likely be dead in the water when the attempt is made to activate. Those keys aren't meant to be activated; they're on the sticker primarily just to have one on the sticker which is what actually determines the legal ownership.

As for the "specific architecture" reference, I don't think that poster was talking about architecture in terms of 32 bit or 64 bit, I think he was referring to the OEM branding, like Dell copies for Dell, HP for HP, etc. I could be wrong, but that's how I interpret his statement about "specific architecture" - it's the OEM branding tie-in.

Never had a problem activating a key off the manufactures COA. I had to call in, answer a couple extra questions pertaining to the manufacturer and model, but they still activated.
 

Catweazle

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Yep. Microsoft have no legally valid grounds upon which to try prohibit you from using a clean install disk rather than a pre-installation image to put a clean, proprietary software free install in place!


Edit: The discussion is about using the valid license key on the computer it was supplied with!

Edit 2: My point was that your claim was incorrect!
 

Catweazle

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I seriously doubt MS will risk losing a suit over a 64-bit vs 32bit license issue, EULA legitimacy issues aside. Most judges will see that he legally installed Windows Vista whatever and not get the difference between 64bit and 32bit. If asked to show the difference, they won't be able to spot it. When asked to show what features the 64bit version offers that the 32bit doesn't, there won't be any differences. For all intents and purposes, Windows Vista whatever is Windows Vista whatever to them. 32 and 64 are just confusing computer terms.


This bit of the discussion, however, I definitely DO disagree with.

If it ever did come to legal action I think it'd be quite clear that an unlicensed installation was in place. OEM is licensed for one or the other, and if the other is in use then it's unlicensed. BUT....

  1. They can't detect it and...
  2. Even if they could, it'd be expensive legal proceedings with no benefit to Microsoft other than forcing the user to revert to the licensed install rather than the alternate.

Won't happen!
 

BinarySynapse

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This bit of the discussion, however, I definitely DO disagree with.

If it ever did come to legal action I think it'd be quite clear that an unlicensed installation was in place. OEM is licensed for one or the other, and if the other is in use then it's unlicensed. BUT....

  1. They can't detect it and...
  2. Even if they could, it'd be expensive legal proceedings with no benefit to Microsoft other than forcing the user to revert to the licensed install rather than the alternate.

Won't happen!

The thing is though, the COA doesn't indicate which it's supposed to be used with.
 

Joe Average

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The COA has DELL or whatever OEM it's branded to on it sooo...

If it's a System Builder edition, it won't have an OEM name on it, just the letters "OEM" but branded copies... oh yeah, the name they're tied to is on the COA, every time.

Using a Dell OEM branded OS on a Dell machine - perfect. Using the Product Key on a Dell OEM branded OS COA with some other hardware to have another working copy - asking for trouble, regardless.
 

BinarySynapse

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The COA has DELL or whatever OEM it's branded to on it sooo...

If it's a System Builder edition, it won't have an OEM name on it, just the letters "OEM" but branded copies... oh yeah, the name they're tied to is on the COA, every time.

Using a Dell OEM branded OS on a Dell machine - perfect. Using the Product Key on a Dell OEM branded OS COA with some other hardware to have another working copy - asking for trouble, regardless.

I was referring strictly to the 32bit vs 64bit licensing. I'm well aware that the manufacturer is on the COA (except for System Builder offerings).
 

Joe Average

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Cool. Your statement in that other post seemed a bit unclear sooo... the part about "which it's supposed to be used with" could be open for interpretation.
 

oplin

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Just to clarify the reference to the Dell is that the machine is a dell and i want to reinstall vista business as 64bit from 32bit. Same machine, just moving to 64bit. I want to try out 8 gigs of ram on my work machine is the reason for wanting to switch.

So i can legitimately use a clean install disk of vista 64bit business edition with my dell key on my dell machine to switch from 32bit to 64bit?

It's not legal to dual boot though between the 2 is it? I have a feeling i'm going to need to run the 32bit along side 64bit for a week or so to see if all the applications i use are 64bit compatible. .

Also on Sept 8th MS or someone is giving students out Vista Ultimate Upgrade disk for 65$, if it only came with 32bit edition i could use 64bit edition? I was thinking this might be a good way to dual boot into 32 and 64bit and not worry about breaking the license agreement.(http://www.microsoft.com/student/discounts/theultimatesteal-us/default.aspx)
 

Joe Average

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There's no way to say 100% with any certainty that trying to use that Dell OEM key on that sticker will allow you to install a straight non-branded OEM copy of Vista Business on that same Dell machine, sorry. Some people will chime in sure sure, but until you make the attempt and see what happens, there's just no way to know if it'll work.

And no, you can't legally use the same key for both at the same time - that much is pretty safe in terms of comprehension. They might be two versions of the same OS, but even so, that's two unique copies so, that's crossing a line. As for whether Dell will beat your door down to prosecute? Fat chance of that happening...

If you can locate - and I'm not saying who, what, when, or where here - an actual Dell Vista Business x64 installation DVD, that would install without the need for a key at all since it's branded. I got one sitting right here beside me, actually, but that belongs to a client. :)
 

Catweazle

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So i can legitimately use a clean install disk of vista 64bit business edition with my dell key on my dell machine to switch from 32bit to 64bit?


NO!!! Not legitimately!

That's what has been said. It will work in a practical sense, but it will not give you 'legitimate' status in the sense of being a legally licensed installation. Your OEM license conditions cover only the install you were provided with. If that install media was a 32-bit install then you are legally licensed for a 32-bit install, but not legally licensed for a 64-bit install.

You can, in a practical sense, get the alternate installed and working, but you cannot describe the installation as 'legitimate' even though Microsoft has activated the installation.
 

Zero82z

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So i can legitimately use a clean install disk of vista 64bit business edition with my dell key on my dell machine to switch from 32bit to 64bit?

Yes, indeed you can. The license included with your computer covers a single installation of Windows Vista OEM on that machine, and that machine alone (technically). However, nothing prevents you from using that license on a copy of 64-bit Vista so long as it's the only installation of Vista that the serial number is used for and it's used on the machine that the license was originally provided for.

Also, EULAs are not legally binding, so even if there is some random clause buried away somewhere that disallows what you plan on doing, you don't have to abide by it. Just install a copy of Vista x64 OEM using the serial number on your box, and be done with it.
Your OEM license conditions cover only the install you were provided with. If that install media was a 32-bit install then you are legally licensed for a 32-bit install, but not legally licensed for a 64-bit install.

Bullshit. An OEM license covers a single installation of the OS on the computer it was provided with; however, there are no restrictions as to how many times you can reinstall the OS on the PC in question.
 

BinarySynapse

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Yes, indeed you can. The license included with your computer covers a single installation of Windows Vista OEM on that machine, and that machine alone (technically). However, nothing prevents you from using that license on a copy of 64-bit Vista so long as it's the only installation of Vista that the serial number is used for and it's used on the machine that the license was originally provided for.

Also, EULAs are not legally binding, so even if there is some random clause buried away somewhere that disallows what you plan on doing, you don't have to abide by it. Just install a copy of Vista x64 OEM using the serial number on your box, and be done with it.

Click-through agreements are at this point legally binding. When you are installing Windows, you are presented with the EULA before you select which drive to install it ito. If you don't agree with the EULA, you have the opportunity to get a refund directly from MS. And MS's current position on OEM licenses is that you are licensed to use what you got in the box. If you didn't get a 64-bit media and your manufacturer doesn't offer it, then you don't have the right to install a 64-bit version using the COA key on your machine.
 

Joe Average

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Has a court ever ruled on EULAs being binding or even more important not being binding? No? Didn't think so, and as such should be treated as legal until such time as a court strikes that down. Wonder why people automagically assume they're not... that's pretty silly.
 

BinarySynapse

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Has a court ever ruled on EULAs being binding or even more important not being binding? No? Didn't think so, and as such should be treated as legal until such time as a court strikes that down. Wonder why people automagically assume they're not... that's pretty silly.

Actually yes, one of the district courts has ruled in favor of click-through EULAs. I forget which one. Even though the ruling doesn't apply nationwide, it sets precedent.
 

Sovereign

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I've used OEM Dell media to install on a completely different machine (the original machine now has Vista Business on it). Granted, this was Windows XP MCE2005 but I'm not sure how tightly Microsoft enforces the "OEM lock." Also it is necessary to note that my OEM OS hadn't been installed or used for over a year...
 

Catweazle

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Yes, indeed you can. The license included with your computer covers a single installation of Windows Vista OEM on that machine, and that machine alone (technically). However, nothing prevents you from using that license on a copy of 64-bit Vista so long as it's the only installation of Vista that the serial number is used for and it's used on the machine that the license was originally provided for.

Also, EULAs are not legally binding, so even if there is some random clause buried away somewhere that disallows what you plan on doing, you don't have to abide by it. Just install a copy of Vista x64 OEM using the serial number on your box, and be done with it.

Nothing 'prevents you' in a practical sense, and that I've already said. The fact that there are no impediment mechanisms in place doesn't alter the legitimacy issue though. Use the alternate install media, even though the manufacturer doesn't provide it or the home builder isn't legitimately entitled to it, and you don't end up with a legal install. It's a working install but not a legal install.

And click-through EULAs are most certainly 'binding', in every respect other than breaches of local laws they might contain. A Microsoft EULA, for example, cannot over-ride local laws in place for countries where they market their products.


Bullshit. An OEM license covers a single installation of the OS on the computer it was provided with; however, there are no restrictions as to how many times you can reinstall the OS on the PC in question.

I never suggested that the user can't reinstall, so WTF are you on about?
 

Zero82z

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I never suggested that the user can't reinstall, so WTF are you on about?

Sorry, I misread your original post. However, a single Vista license covers either version, and will also function with and activate on both versions of the install media. The OP is perfectly within his rights to install a copy of Vista x64 in place of his current installation using the same license.
 

BinarySynapse

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Sorry, I misread your original post. However, a single Vista license covers either version, and will also function with and activate on both versions of the install media. The OP is perfectly within his rights to install a copy of Vista x64 in place of his current installation using the same license.

Not with OEM, unfortunately.
 

BinarySynapse

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FINALLY SOMEONE FUCKING GETS IT. :)

I've gotten "it" for a while now. I personally intrepret the EULA differently than what MS says they meant. However, I'm not the one who wrote it, so my interpretation means jack-shit. WIth OEM, you're entitled to what's in the package and nothing more.
 

Zero82z

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Not with OEM, unfortunately.

It's my understanding that an OEM license is merely tied to the machine it is included with. If you could direct me toward where it's pointed out that you aren't allowed to use that license with a 64-bit or 32-bit (depending on which version you start with) install of Vista, I'd be interested in seeing it.
 

BinarySynapse

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It's my understanding that an OEM license is merely tied to the machine it is included with. If you could direct me toward where it's pointed out that you aren't allowed to use that license with a 64-bit or 32-bit (depending on which version you start with) install of Vista, I'd be interested in seeing it.

System Builders license included on the OEM versions bought by Newegg, ZZF, etc.

1. Defnitions.
...
e. “Pack” means this package of Microsoft Software or Hardware.
f. “Software” means the Microsoft software inside the Pack. A unit of Software includes any software media,
documentation, certifcate of authenticity (“COA”) label, end user license terms and security devices.

In other words, whatever is in the box is all you are licensed to install and pass on to the end user. I'm sure top tier OEMs have a similar license.
 

Catweazle

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However, a single Vista license covers either version, and will also function with and activate on both versions of the install media. The OP is perfectly within his rights to install a copy of Vista x64 in place of his current installation using the same license.

Bullshit!


OEM Vista licensing conditions here:

http://oem.microsoft.com/public/sblicense/2008_sb_licenses/fy08_sb_license_english.pdf

Arguments related purely and solely to EULA are irrelevant. When you purchase and use, as an owner-builder, a Vista OEM System builder pack you become both the licensor and the end-user. You have obligations to fulfil, under law, as licensor in addition to your obligations as end user.

Technically you should be using an OPK to put the install in place or to produce a reinstallation image. In the case of owner-builders who are simply using the originally supplied media to clean install with then that requirement can be met simply by customising the 'System Properties' information so that it shows your name and contact details as the person or entity responsible for software support.

But point is that you cannot legitimately or legally distribute, even to yourself, anything other than the product purchased in the System Builder Pack and that is one install type or the other. You don't get rights to order or distribute the alternate install media, so you cannot possibly become an end-user who is entitled to use either install.


As owner-builder purchasing and using an OEM Vista System Builder pack you get a fair amount of flexibility. That results from Microsoft's company policy, and their policy changed for the circumstance of owner-builders with the release of Vista. You CAN, for example, change a motherboard to replace a defective one and still retain the licensed status. If the original make/model of motherboard is no longer available the you are the 'manufacturer' of the system and have the right to designate a suitable alternative product for use in it.

But you CANNOT legitimately put in place an install which relates to anything other than the product you were supplied with initially, when you purchased the system Builder pack.



Probably 90% or more of the confusion about this emanates from know-alls who spout the "I rang Microsoft and found out!" line.

Ignore that sort of rubbish. People who 'ring Microsoft' don't get to speak with policy experts or spokespeople. Instead, they get to speak with junior lackeys in call centers, and the quality of information they receives depends upon the quality of training those employees have been subjected to, and the quality of those employees ability to absorb and pass on the information contained in their training.

Check this out, following the story of 'Richard Sutton':

http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/68306/

But don't expect to find similar stories related to conflicts over the alternate install media for OEM licenses. You won't find them, because OEM licenses don't entitle you to the alternate install.




Edit: Bugger! Lots of posts made since I first started typing that out :)
 

Joe Average

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You started typing it more that 3 hours and 15 minutes ago? :) That's the time I see from when Zero82z made his last post and you just made yours, a little over 3 hours 15 minutes...

You Aussies... I tell ya. ;)

WE ALL GET IT, WE CAN UNDERSTAND IT, LET THIS THREAD DIE. <please>
 

Catweazle

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Yeah, did actually. Had the browser tab opened and quoting the mentioned post for ages before completing the post I was making. Do you somehow think that everybody sits there at keyboard hanging out for whatever comment might come next, as if it were an actual conversation? Hey hell, I'm not even anywhere near the MACHINE most of the time!

:p

Stop trying to be 'forum cop', eh?
 
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