Dying is Against PayPal's TOS

rgMekanic

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The BBC is reporting that PayPal sent a letter to 37 year old Lindsay Durdle for a breach of agreement due to the fact that she had died. Mrs. Durdle passed away May 31st after a battle with cancer, her husband provided PayPal with copies of her death certificate, will, and ID as requested. That however did not stop them from sending a letter, addressed to Lindsay that states:

"You are in breach of condition 15.4(c) of your agreement with PayPal Credit as we have received notice that you are deceased... this breach is not capable of remedy."

I don't even know if there is a word to describe how pissed off I would be if I were Mr. Durdle.

The firm has since acknowledged that the letter was "insensitive", apologised to her widower, and begun an inquiry into how it came to be sent.
 

HVAC

n00b
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Sep 25, 2015
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You have died.

We are upset and will not allow you to make it up to us. It was very insensitive of you to die in the first place, knowing how we felt about you, <INSERT NAME HERE>.

As punishment for your refusal to continue existing, we will hound you with spam emails for all eternity.
 

Damar

Supreme [H]ardness
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Jun 20, 2004
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4,570
Man, all those people who got Thanos "snapped" will likely get a letter too.....

PayPal are such jerks when it comes to customer service though. Gave up using them a long time ago. Haven't missed them in the least.
 

nutzo

Supreme [H]ardness
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Can't wait for actual "super-computers and AI" to start handling more legal procedure. It's going to be wonderful. :rolleyes:

Just another version of voicemail hell.
Now, instead of getting stuck on hold, or being sent in an endless voice mail loop, you will automatically be sent threatening letters and/or spam.
 

J3RK

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Messages
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Just another version of voicemail hell.
Now, instead of getting stuck on hold, or being sent in an endless voice mail loop, you will automatically be sent threatening letters and/or spam.
Indeed! Good thing I don't check my mail. :p
 

J3RK

[H]F Junkie
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We have submitted to have your corpse re-animated at your earliest convenience, so that you are able to fill out the necessary paperwork to void your current contract.
 

MacLeod

Supreme [H]ardness
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Yeah the wording on that letter is stupid but she still owed over 3,000 bucks. If you die and have an outstanding debt, especially $3,000+, they can still and likely will come after your estate to get paid. Dealt with this when my pops passed a couple years ago.
 

ChoGGi

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
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Yeah the wording on that letter is stupid but she still owed over 3,000 bucks. If you die and have an outstanding debt, especially $3,000+, they can still and likely will come after your estate to get paid. Dealt with this when my pops passed a couple years ago.
Yep, same when my mom passed, took Rogers about seven years to finally stop calling. Her account was sent to collections than back to Rogers three or four times, every few months I'd get another call. It went from annoying to just incredulous after the first few years.
They really wanted that hundred bucks or so...
 

raz-0

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You have died.

We are upset and will not allow you to make it up to us. It was very insensitive of you to die in the first place, knowing how we felt about you, <INSERT NAME HERE>.

As punishment for your refusal to continue existing, we will hound you with spam emails for all eternity.

If you actually read it, it's more like:

You owe us $4000. We have received notice you have died. You still owe us $4000.

More appropriately it probably should have showed up and said something like.

To the estate of XXXX.

We are attempting to notify the executor fo the estate of XXXX that while we have received notice of XXXX's death, at the time of their death their account was in arrears for the sum of $4000. This debt according to section blah blah is not dischargable and the responsibility of the estate of the late XXXX. This notification is an attempt o make you aware of this claim upon the estate of the deceased.

Or something like that. Depending on the nature of the debt incurred, it might just have to say the lawylerly version of:

Bitch owed us money. She dead. Now you owe us money cause you were married to her. Pay up.
 

rgMekanic

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If you actually read it, it's more like:

You owe us $4000. We have received notice you have died. You still owe us $4000.

More appropriately it probably should have showed up and said something like.

To the estate of XXXX.

We are attempting to notify the executor fo the estate of XXXX that while we have received notice of XXXX's death, at the time of their death their account was in arrears for the sum of $4000. This debt according to section blah blah is not dischargable and the responsibility of the estate of the late XXXX. This notification is an attempt o make you aware of this claim upon the estate of the deceased.

Or something like that. Depending on the nature of the debt incurred, it might just have to say the lawylerly version of:

Bitch owed us money. She dead. Now you owe us money cause you were married to her. Pay up.
^ this.
 

Nobu

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It's just a legal notice that their lawyers are required (possibly by law) to send, in order to convey that whatever contract they had once held is no longer in effect due to breach of contract. What that means in this case, is she can no longer use the services PayPal provides. It may also mean that PayPal must return any money they owe to her, or it may be forfeit to PayPal, depending on what the specific wording of the agreement is and the laws governing the contract.
 

PantherBlitz

Limp Gawd
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Apr 14, 2011
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421
Allow me to translate. They are required by law to send this notice to inform the estate that 1. She had an outstanding balance which is due in full immediately (called an "acceleration clause") 2. There will be no further credit given to this account, and 3. There is no way they will change their mind regarding points 1 and 2.

The wording they used is so confusing and poorly written it appears to have been written by a robot, or a psycho, but it was probably lawyers. :)
 
D

Deleted member 133315

Guest
Dieing is only against their terms if you take paypal credit.

I applaude the lady for ripping paypal off.

Before I die, I will take as much credit as I can get my hands on.

They fuck us so why not fuck them.
 

PhaseNoise

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Dieing is only against their terms if you take paypal credit.

I applaude the lady for ripping paypal off.

Before I die, I will take as much credit as I can get my hands on.

They fuck us so why not fuck them.
Group A doing something wrong doesn't give carte blanche to everyone else to also do wrong, nor does it somehow cancel out the wrong. Now everyone is just being corrupt. Yay, and thanks?
 

haste.

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When did hard become such a partisan forum? There can be no discussion anymore. Paypal is evil, or wait maybe someone has to pay for the debt that she took (which looks to be on her deathbed). For basically as long as credit as existed it's passed on to your next of kin aka the husband. So wtf why is this a big deal? Or even a conversation? She took credit someone has to pay it off. Are we gonna go extreme [H] and denounce every financial institution that has ever existed? This is becoming the American politics of forums, fuck everyone that isn't your exact understanding of the world. RG is helping with his very "professional" commentary.
 

OregonLAN

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My wife's father passed away a couple of years ago and left us with a huge eBay/PayPal mess. The death was completely unexpected; he had hundreds of orders from eBay that we could not fulfill. Instead of dealing with eBay and PayPal on their terms, we were lucky enough to find all his login information on a piece of paper. As such, we canceled and refunded all the "pending" transactions and requested a check from PayPal without them ever knowing of his passing. We secured his estate through our lawyers and deposited the check into the estate account after it arrived. We then proceeded to close down his eBay and PayPal accounts. eBay actually had the nerve to try and bill us for an ETF on some of his market subscriptions. To add insult to injury, a couple eBay buyers left him negative reviews despite having refunded their money and apologizing for his passing.
 

bigdogchris

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I have a suspicion her husband starting spending with that account right before she died.
 

Nobu

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My wife's father passed away a couple of years ago and left us with a huge eBay/PayPal mess. The death was completely unexpected; he had hundreds of orders from eBay that we could not fulfill. Instead of dealing with eBay and PayPal on their terms, we were lucky enough to find all his login information on a piece of paper. As such, we canceled and refunded all the "pending" transactions and requested a check from PayPal without them ever knowing of his passing. We secured his estate through our lawyers and deposited the check into the estate account after it arrived. We then proceeded to close down his eBay and PayPal accounts. eBay actually had the nerve to try and bill us for an ETF on some of his market subscriptions. To add insult to injury, a couple eBay buyers left him negative reviews despite having refunded their money and apologizing for his passing.
Well, to be fair, it's not like the ebay account will be reused. If someone were trying to scam people (or if it were a possibility) by saying they had died, then the negative review served it's purpose. Otherwise, the guy is dead. I doubt he cares what they think now, although I'm sorry you had to read it after going through all that entails.
 
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sfsuphysics

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If you actually read it, it's more like:

You owe us $4000. We have received notice you have died. You still owe us $4000.

More appropriately it probably should have showed up and said something like.

To the estate of XXXX.

We are attempting to notify the executor fo the estate of XXXX that while we have received notice of XXXX's death, at the time of their death their account was in arrears for the sum of $4000. This debt according to section blah blah is not dischargable and the responsibility of the estate of the late XXXX. This notification is an attempt o make you aware of this claim upon the estate of the deceased.

Or something like that. Depending on the nature of the debt incurred, it might just have to say the lawylerly version of:

Bitch owed us money. She dead. Now you owe us money cause you were married to her. Pay up.
That's kind of how I read it too, maybe the husband sent an letter/notice to PayPal to say she's dead, and thought that all debt she owed just magically disappeared as a result.
 
D

Deleted member 133315

Guest
When did hard become such a partisan forum? There can be no discussion anymore. Paypal is evil, or wait maybe someone has to pay for the debt that she took (which looks to be on her deathbed). For basically as long as credit as existed it's passed on to your next of kin aka the husband. So wtf why is this a big deal? Or even a conversation? She took credit someone has to pay it off. Are we gonna go extreme [H] and denounce every financial institution that has ever existed? This is becoming the American politics of forums, fuck everyone that isn't your exact understanding of the world. RG is helping with his very "professional" commentary.
Not in uk, husband not liable for her credit, credit is giving to an individual unless physically stated at time when free money was handed out.

Some companies do try to push that shit, its your wife blah, will get your name and house blacklisted blah, but its illegal to do that.

Unless co signed, paypal can suck it up.
 

Exavior

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Like others said there is nothing wrong with the fact that they sent the letter they just did a shit job with wording.
 

Decibel

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They fuck us so why not fuck them.
Don't threaten me with a good time.


*

I don't know how this works in the UK, but in the US you don't get to go after someone's family for debt when they pass. They only get to collect from joint account holders and co-signers on loans. They can also collect from the spouse if the deceased lived one of the nine community property states: Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington and Wisconsin

In any other situation they have to try to collect from the estate.
 
D

Deleted member 133315

Guest
Don't threaten me with a good time.


*

I don't know how this works in the UK, but in the US you don't get to go after someone's family for debt when they pass. They only get to collect from joint account holders and co-signers on loans. They can also collect from the spouse if the deceased lived one of the nine community property states: Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington and Wisconsin

In any other situation they have to try to collect from the estate.
Could try and collect from her estate, depending on how much they may or may not be owed, they cannot go after her husband, but since his wifes estate is his also, could be a bit of friction, but physically demanding payment from the husband should not happen, only if he co signed, which he did not as pay pal dont do that.

Some wide boy companies try that shit, especially to old folk, which really bugs me, why pick on easy targets ? < would murder someone if they tried that shit on my family.

To be honest, I think paypal will let it slide if husband didnt pay it if he was even asked, too much hassle for a company to go through and since its paypal, its not gunna be alot of money owed.

Dont think i have ever heard of a paypal v X case ?
 
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Spidey329

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Could try and collect from her estate, depending on how much they may or may not, they cannont go after her husband, but since his wifes estate is his also, could be a bit of friction, but physically demanding payment from the husband should not happen, only if he co signed, which he did not as pay pal dont do that.

That's why if you plan to own things you should pull a page out of the rich person handbook and set up a system of trusts / corporations.

Hard to attack an estate that doesn't actually own anything.
 

DukenukemX

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Probably all done by computer, is how it happened
Who programmed that by mistake? I'm willing to bet that PayPal is upset when someone dies cause who's going to pay the debt? My aunt died recently and she owed money and she had nothing to her name. She lived in an apartment and lived off social security. But oh boy do debt collectors hate to find out when someone dies cause someone has to pay for that debt. They come after relatives asking for the estate owner. There's no estate.

Even in the article it was said the letter was "insensitive". Meaning, they wish they worded it a bit better, as in pay us now.
 
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