Dutch Regulators Say T-Mobile Zero Rating Violates Neutrality

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by HardOCP News, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. HardOCP News

    HardOCP News [H] News

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    It looks as though the Netherlands Authority for Consumers and Markets isn't too happy with T-Mobile's zero rating. The company will have to pay a fine of $52,000 a day until it is in compliance with the law.

    Dutch regulators have declared that T-Mobile's implementation of zero rating violates that country's net neutrality rules. The Netherlands Authority for Consumers and Markets (ACM) has declared that zero-rating offers like T-Mobile's “data-free music” may negatively impact competition between online services. Zero rating has long been opposed by net neutrality regulators, because it gives select services an unfair advantage by incentivizing consumers to use specific content or services.
     
  2. azuza001

    azuza001 Gawd

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    Which is exactly what net neutrality is supposed to stop. Good for them.
     
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  3. mavrocket

    mavrocket [H]ard|Gawd

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    God forbid companies compete for customers!
     
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  4. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire 2[H]4U

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    does t-mobile operate in netherlands?
     
  5. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Ummm... no.

    Remember when certain ISPs were throttling certain services and extorting them for money to not slow down said services?

    THAT is what "NET NEUTRALITY" should stop.

    Providing specific services that don't count against your "data limit" with your paid subscription should be perfectly fine.

    Do texts count against your data? No... then that violates net neutrality since there are other services such as twitter, Facebook messenger, and other messaging apps that do count against your data.

    This whole thing is a huge joke and all it is going to turn out to be is another cash cow for sleazy lawyers.
     
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  6. Wierdo

    Wierdo [H]ard|Gawd

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    Indeed, the Dutch are not short term thinkers, they see where this was going in the longterm. Good on them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
  7. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    Competing and colluding. No difference...
     
  8. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    The solution is easy no bandwidth caps on mobile traffic , problem solved ;)
     
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  9. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    But that wouldn't stop ISPs from throttling specific sites/services.. which is what "Net Neutrality" should fix.

    Bandwidth caps are a big problem.. but so was ISPs throttling Youtube, Netflix, etc.
     
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  10. kac77

    kac77 2[H]4U

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    Text Messaging was built into the mobile communication networks before they even supported Internet access. They are not the same. As a result they are not subject to Net Neutrality.
     
  11. TechLarry

    TechLarry Can't find the G Spot

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    Soo... provide service that is TOO cheap to the customer, and get fined for it. WTF is going on in this world?

    This is pure abuse of a law intended to protect consumers, not benefit corporations.

    Whats that jingle I hear in outstretched hands.... ?
     
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  12. maverikv

    maverikv [H]ard|Gawd

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    You honestly can't see how this is the same thing?
     
  13. BlueFireIce

    BlueFireIce [H]ardness Supreme

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    I said this back when people were rallying for it to pass, I said just wait, it will not be long until it is turned on its head to help head off others from trying to add extra value to their service, everyone said never going to happen or "impossible"....Yeah, well here we are.

    Dont want to be throttled on given content? pay for a connection that doesn't, all consumer ones are, you can tell this in any congested network area or even not so congested areas at peek times. This is another reason I have always opted for business class connections at home.

    Throttling a connection hurts both the consumer and the end business, in this case, it helps both, as it is adding EXTRA value to the service and not removing it. tmoble also gives this to ANY streaming service, the only reason they don't would be because the stream is not detected as video/music stream or because the provider has opted out, non have so far.
     
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  14. maverikv

    maverikv [H]ard|Gawd

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    It creates two tiers of service. It's semantics whether one tier is faster or one tier is slower.
     
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  15. BlueFireIce

    BlueFireIce [H]ardness Supreme

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    You have no idea what you are even taking about, as this statement makes no sense in relation to the feature they are being fined over.
     
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  16. maverikv

    maverikv [H]ard|Gawd

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    Faster/cheaper. Still two tiers. Are we being that lazy here?
     
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  17. BlueFireIce

    BlueFireIce [H]ardness Supreme

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    What is faster/cheaper? What are you even talking about? So offering better deals to customers is evil now? Wow, drink more koolaid please.
     
  18. westrock2000

    westrock2000 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That was "text". Now you got pictures and videos and sound and links. My wife's "text messages" use up like 1GB a month.
     
  19. maverikv

    maverikv [H]ard|Gawd

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    If you don't count certain services towards a user's data cap, that service is effectively cheaper than it's competition, which does count towards the data cap. How is that any different from charging more for the other service?
     
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  20. westrock2000

    westrock2000 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Sadly most people thought this was only to be used for good. I don't know where that precedence was ever set.

    There is some bad with a "free and open" Internet, but that's what also allows a lot of good.
     
  21. BlueFireIce

    BlueFireIce [H]ardness Supreme

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    So you have no idea what you are talking about as this covers all video/music streaming unless the service opts out, meaning NO ONE has any "advantage" as all the services are treated the same, only the end user sees value added to their service. So again, wtf are you talking about?
     
  22. maverikv

    maverikv [H]ard|Gawd

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    Unbunch your panties, guy. Go look at the list of included providers in Europe and tell me it's "all video/music streaming" services. It also reduces the quality of those services to below dvd quality, and so the consumer has a choice they might not even be aware of: higher quality or not counting the data towards their cap.

    It's essentially a clever way to skirt net neutrality rules.
     
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  23. BlueFireIce

    BlueFireIce [H]ardness Supreme

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    Not all are listed, if the network detects it as a streaming service it does not count, also, no one pays for this, it is offered through tmoble as a value added feature. Also when the USER choose to use this feature it reduces the quality, if the user does not know about this, they are stupid, its advertised everywhere, and if they don't, well it costs them nothing. It can only be a benefit to the user, how do people not get this? Such blind hate for companies they are willing to hurt themselves to prove it. Talking about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
     
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  24. maverikv

    maverikv [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm a T-Mobile customer. Will you get your bosses to give me a bill credit if I stop criticizing this "service"?
     
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  25. BlueFireIce

    BlueFireIce [H]ardness Supreme

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    I was also a tmobile customer until a month or so ago....Does that now act like a trump card for me as well?

    Nice try at the personal jab that I am on tmobiles payroll. :rolleyes:
     
  26. maverikv

    maverikv [H]ard|Gawd

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    Maybe you don't work for them. Maybe you've just been F'd so hard so many times by big companies you can no longer see the dick coming.

    Or maybe you're just one of those corporate apologists. Won't someone please think of the poor defenseless $70 Billion companies? Maybe you're one of those people that will ardently defend a company like this for throttling "unlimited" data, for example?

    T-Mobile isn't here to help you. They won't be your friend. If they really wanted to "add value" or really cared about the consumer, they would do away with the industry standard pricing model that they have tacitly admitted with this "binge on" program is the sham we all know it is anyway: data usage pricing.
     
  27. Jon855

    Jon855 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Are you postivie?

    I'll go out on a limb here and if I'm wrong then I'm wrong.

    I'm guessing your wife has an iPhone and probably is using iMessage as a primary way of sending "texts" to supposedly other phones which happens to be iPhones as well and sorry to be the bearer of the bad news but iMessage isn't SMS in the purest sense. It's an entirely different service which uses data and I can see that easily hitting 1GB with pics, etc, etc... at its highest quality or whatever. MMS and SMA are entirely different beast in this category... Err - perhaps not beasts but you get the gist I hope.

    Now if she doesn't have iPhone or other smartphone perhaps with other "texting" apps which alternatively would use data instead of the actual SMS infrastructure and thus could explain the data consumption.

    My take on this is quite simply - either one offer a prescribed up to max speed w/ no cap subject to fair network management throttling to ensure connectivity of others.
     
  28. westrock2000

    westrock2000 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You are completely right. And I agree with you. The text messages 15 years ago are not the same as text messages today, they contain a lot of "data". That was in response to someone saying text messages were around before smart phones and so shouldn't be part of data bandwidth.
     
  29. scan13

    scan13 [H]Lite

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    This. If they want "add value" they should up data caps or remove them altogether. Selecting which services don't count against your cap IS bending the law. I don't stream movies to my phone, but I use a lot of other services (maps etc.), why the hell are those not "free" for me? I'm paying the same for my data access as anyone who watches movies on their phone. Think of it like this: Your electric company lets you use a hair dryer for free (but only on low setting lol) and they happen to make hairdryers. "But I'm bald..." you say, "well then you should grow some hair and use one, its fun and doesn't count against your bill! Btw, you can only have your coffee every second morning or we charge you for overusage. One more thing, don't use any kind of three-ways or extension cords (tethering) or we switch your service off ".
    What I'm trying to say is it's not up to them to tell me what I should do with something I payed for. They took my money, should I be able to tell them what they can spend it on?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
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