Dual G5 for video Editing, need advice

JethroXP

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My sister works for a small video production company. Even though I'm a PC guy, all she has ever used are Macs. She has asked my advice on putting together a dual G5 system for the primary purpose of video editing with Final Cut Pro. The system she is looking at has:

• Dual 2.5GHz PowerPC G5
• 1GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x512
• 250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
• ATI Radeon 9800 XT w/256MB DDR SDRAM
• Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel)
• AirPort Extreme Card
• 56k V.92 modem
• 8x SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
• PCI-X Gigabit Ethernet Card
• Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
• Mac OS X - U.S. English

Price: $4,727.00

I'm wondering if she should bump up to 2GB RAM, and possible to the GF6800 Ultra from the Radeon 9800 XT. She does not play games, this is purely for professional video production work.

Anyone here have any thoughts?

Thanks,
 

vinividivici

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if she can afford it, i would say to definitely bump the Ram and the vid card.

just don't get RAM from apple, go to www.crutial.com or something, you'll save some serious coin going there.

and with the upped vid card, she could always upgrade to the 30" display if she gets the urge.
 

Zepher

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I suggest using dual displays, one 23" cinema, and another 23" or 20" screen.
2gigs of ram wouldn't hurt either. The 9800XT should be fine.
My friends main setup is a Dual 2ghz G5, 2gigs of ram, 23" and 20" LCD's 9800Pro, some external Firewire drives, Final Cut Pro.
the other is a dual G5 1.8ghz, with almost the same parts, but I think the video card is different.
 

iownyou14

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Id remove the following:

- AirPort Extreme Card (Unless shes going wireless, no point needing this)
- 56k V.92 modem (I hope she doesnt have dial up... if she does, keep it)
- PCI-X Gigabit Ethernet Card (NIC already included on the Mobo)

I think a Dual 2.0GHz would be fine. 2.5 is more for Video editing. Id also get 2GB or ram, to reduce encoding time or w/e. The video card is fine, but if she decides to increase the monitor size, u might want to upgrade that. Since there is no video editing involved, id just get a 9600xt.
 

Xarthan

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I would get more ram, aka 2GB she'll get faster Render times.

You also don't need such a high end video card unless she plans on doing Maya work.
 

Zepher

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iownyou14 said:
I think a Dual 2.0GHz would be fine. 2.5 is more for Video editing. Id also get 2GB or ram, to reduce encoding time or w/e. The video card is fine, but if she decides to increase the monitor size, u might want to upgrade that. Since there is no video editing involved, id just get a 9600xt.
Dual G5 for video Editing, need advice

Did you miss the title of the post?
 

ProphetSix

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Another vote for 2Gb RAM. Yeah, get it at Crucial. Apple rapes you on RAM pricing.

Also, get another internal SATA drive, or some external FireWire drives. I don't know what you're editing, but 250Gb seems small for video. I do numerous side projects with video, and I have 830Gb to handle multiple projects at once. (There's nothing like uploading 20+ tapes and having it all on hand at once for whatever...)
 

JethroXP

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Thanks for the replies everyone. I think I'm going to recommend at least 2GB RAM, at least two 250GB SATA drives, and that she drop the PCI-X Gigabit card and the Airport Extreme Card.
 

iownyou14

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WS6 said:
Dual G5 for video Editing, need advice

Did you miss the title of the post?

Wow im sorry. I thought it was for sound. I need to read more carefully.
 

Black Morty Rackham

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I would like to second buying RAM elsewhere, skipping the modem, etc. Since it's very much possible that Final Cut Pro et al will have GPU-acceleration sometime this year, a beefy video card would be a plus.
 

wankrtron

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i do this every day. so i recommend the extra ram, not from apple of course., the max hdd that you can get it there even if you need multiple hdds. and im not so sure that the beefed up vid card will help. as of yet at least. thats one place that could save you money. also, i heard that there was some kind of a kink with the dual 2.5s and the dual 2.0s were faster in the long run. something you might check around for.

im using a 20 cinema display and find it fine. anything else i wanna see, i put on a 17 inch lcd to the side. definately ditch the mouse for a logitech mx500, mx510 or mx100. the extra buttons com in handy. plus all the mousing around you do, it is easier on your wrist/arm.

you didnt have it listed, but of course pick up final cut pro and dvd studio pro, and maybe even motion. (i think they still have a bundle) :D

oh oh, and one more thing. ask her if they are gonna need anyone else, i would love to ditch the job ive got now.
 

JethroXP

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She already has a copy of Final Cut Pro, she got it as part of the "Production Suite" which I guess normally retails for $1299 but she got it for $499 on a student discount. The company she works for mostly does corporate training videos for Hewlett Packard, but they also do the occasional music video, and they also worked with ABC on the this year's Rose Bowl and some other sporting events. They are based out of Corvalis, OR. I think it's about a 20-30 person shop.
 
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I know this is the mac section, but I'm seriously thinking dual Opteron 252's and an x850xt (pe?) will be much better for this. I gaurantee they would, in fact. I'm just not sure your sister would be able to handle to the move. Plus, the pc would be cheaper I think......
 

ramuman

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bountyhunter said:
I know this is the mac section, but I'm seriously thinking dual Opteron 252's and an x850xt (pe?) will be much better for this. I gaurantee they would, in fact. I'm just not sure your sister would be able to handle to the move. Plus, the pc would be cheaper I think......

Final Cut Pro is an excellent program - she would have to learn (or maybe she already knows) Premiere if she goes to a PC setup.
 

muzzle79

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bountyhunter said:
Plus, the pc would be cheaper I think......


Not really If you tie in a good quality system thats equivalent it's about the same.
Software and all. Not to mention she's using Final Cut Pro. So i'd think pc is out of the question anyhow.


I'll probably get flamed for this but, Why not two dell 2005fpw instead of just the one 20" It's about the same price ( maybe a few more bucks). If she calls the business line she can get the monitors for 550 shipped each.

I'd also say if money is an issue. Drop To the 2.0 and put 2-4gb ram from crucial in there. Performance from more ram would likely out weigh the processor bump. Based on what I've read and my own experience with my dual 2.0 vs what i've experienced with a friends 2.5.
 

gigglebyte

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muzzle79 said:
I'll probably get flamed for this but, Why not two dell 2005fpw instead of just the one 20" It's about the same price ( maybe a few more bucks). If she calls the business line she can get the monitors for 550 shipped each.

I wouldn't say you would get flamed for that...the Dell 20's are nice but is that model wide screen or regular? (too lazy to go check :p) but bountyhunter...they are doing work on a Mac...leave it at that as there are some things that a PC just can't do (like run Final Cut) so no matter how much better/cheaper you think the Opteron is that isn't an option [/RANT]

keep the RAM at the base and get an additional 2 gig from Crucial (apx $300) and that will give 2.5 gig total :D I second the idea of getting the second internal 250gig drive especially if you are going to do video editing...I don't think the video card will be that big of an issue as it won't effect rendering at all
 

muzzle79

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the widescreen 20's

I have one on each of my power macs now and love them. Some people seem to think it's blasphemy to have an dell monitor on a mac.

Me, Personaly I want what works : )
 

Methodical

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if she's not using after effects or any other program like that, you can keep the ram at 1 or 1.5gb and and drop the processor to 2.0 safely. do they have a SAN for video storage? if not buy the biggest SATA drive you can.
 

JethroXP

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If I were doing video editing, I'd lean toward a PC too, but my sister has only ever used Macs, the studio where she works use Macs, she knows how to use the Mac video software, so anything other than a Mac simply isn't an option at this point. Cost is an issue, but not the primary one, since this will be written off as a business expense. It's more important that she get something she is familiar with, and is compatible with what the studio uses.

She is going for 2GB of RAM (from crucial) and dual 250GB SATA drives. Apparently she has a fairly large portable firewire drive provided by the studio for transfering stuff, so the dual 250s should be fine.

Thanks for all the replies!
 

Methodical

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im telling you all this stuff is way overkill if she wants to save money.
the 9800 XT? why not go for the 9600 and save 300?
2.5's instead of 2.0? why not save 500 bucks?
cinema display? why not grab a dell lcd and save another few hundred bucks + get higher resolution?
get the 1GB of apple ram option so you have two 512MB sticks in there. THEN check the memory and see if she is using it up. I doubt final cut pro needs more than a gig. I have 1.5 GB and only some serious multitasking and certain programs tax it.
 

ramuman

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The Dell 2005 frankly sucks compared to the Apple despite using the same panel. I say this having had the 2005 and the Apple at the same time (guess which one I kept :p). If you're gonna save money on a video rig, the monitor is not the place to start. However, my main computer which has the ACD is a PC, my notebook is a 12" Powerbook.

If cost isn't much of an issue, get the 23" ACD and get the RAM upgrade from Crucial or a for sale thread. One advantage is seeing 1080 movies in native resolution.
 

KaosDG

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bountyhunter said:
I know this is the mac section, but I'm seriously thinking dual Opteron 252's and an x850xt (pe?) will be much better for this. I gaurantee they would, in fact. I'm just not sure your sister would be able to handle to the move. Plus, the pc would be cheaper I think......

In raw "material" cost, sure it may be cheaper to go Opteron. Then you add on any software that's needed, and that will bring up the costs.

But keep in mind you need to factor in the man-hours needed to re-learn an OS, software, plus other differences in the systems.

If it's a machine that is needed for an income, those man-hours add-up.
(Now if I can only use this "wasted man hour" argument on our CEO and have him LISTEN :( )


As for everything else, Methodical brings up some good points. What does she do in terms of video? straight timeline functions? Does she add external effects with shake, motion, or AE?

Extra RAM can't hurt, but if you are looking to save you need to know if you can skimp.
 

JethroXP

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I do appreciate the concern. However like I said earlier, price wasn't the highest priority, and she is the sort of person who treats computers like appliances. She wants to buy something that she knows will work, and then simply doesn't want to fuss with it again unless it breaks.

I suppose a better analogy would be that she treats he computers lile the average car owner treats their car. She will do the necessary things to keep it running, but she isn't going to add speed rated tires, or stiffen the suspension, because she isn't that interested in how it works. She wants to do what she needs it to do out-of-box, and she doesn't want to worry about it beyond that.

So some up-front overkill means that she will likely get 3 or more really good years out this without any though of upgrade. That's important to her.

As far as exactly what she will be doing with it, I'm not totally sure as I'm not personally all that knowledgeable about video editing, which is why I first posted this question here :)

I know she is using the Apple Production Suite, with heavy emphasis on Final Cut Pro. And yes, this is for income generating work, so that's why the option of moving to a PC platform was out of the question, she simply doesn't have the time to re-learn everything.
 

Xarthan

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JethroXP said:
She already has a copy of Final Cut Pro, she got it as part of the "Production Suite" which I guess normally retails for $1299 but she got it for $499 on a student discount. The company she works for mostly does corporate training videos for Hewlett Packard, but they also do the occasional music video, and they also worked with ABC on the this year's Rose Bowl and some other sporting events. They are based out of Corvalis, OR. I think it's about a 20-30 person shop.

Holy, what a small world. I live in Corvallis Oregon :) What company is this?
 

JethroXP

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I believe the company's name is Take Two, not to be confused with the game company :)
 

addragyn

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I would not max the internal drives, instead going external SATA or FW800.

She might need the FW ports for I/O.

Do get a bangin' video card. FCP 5 should be here in a few months and word is it will have extensinve Core Video support.


BUT doesn't the shop she works at take care of all this, maybe sh needs a FC card? Or is this a home machine?
 

Selecter

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For video, RAM and Hard Drives are where it's at. After Tiger comes out, the video card will be more important than it is now.

I would drop the 2.5 in favor of a 2.0 Ghz and increase the RAM to 4GB, yes, I said 4GB. A bare minimum of 2 GB. I'd do the 250 GB drives too. Video card......unless you are going to be using Motion in real time for your titles a 9600 XT would be enough. But aftermarket 9800 Pro Special Editions ( with 256 MB ) are the schiznarabble.
 

wankrtron

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bountyhunter said:
I know this is the mac section, but I'm seriously thinking dual Opteron 252's and an x850xt (pe?) will be much better for this. I gaurantee they would, in fact. I'm just not sure your sister would be able to handle to the move. Plus, the pc would be cheaper I think......
BWHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH !!!! are you serious? you think that your pc running premiere could hang with a mac running fcp? NOT A CHANCE. ive worked with both. PREMIERE BLOWS BIG ONES. fcp is so much more fluic, and logical to use. not to mention it doesnt shit its pants with file names over 8 characters. give me a friggin break. keep the pcs where they belong, with the toys, for playing games and stuff. you wanna do some serious work, especially video, stick with the mac an fcp. no contest.

addragyn said:
I would not max the internal drives, instead going external SATA or FW800.

She might need the FW ports for I/O.
dude, why WOULDNT you max out the internals drives? have you ever seen a video wrorkstation? there is shit strung everywhere. tapes, cables, notes, jog dials, vtrs, monitors, the list goes on and on. my station looks like a bomb went off. and all i need now is more shit laying around. i alredy have two fw drives hanging off the top of my box. i SO wish that i had my internal hdd space maxed out. that would be two less, noisy, clunky boxes sitting at my station.

oh, btw, that is anouther thing. she might want to invest in a usb jog dial. the one i use is made by shuttle i think. not the pc manufacturer. if she really wants to know, i can find out for sure, but this bad boy is a life saver. fully programmable buttons, two jog dials. wicked crazy deal. i love it. plus it supports nearly every ap you can think of, and then some.
 

ProphetSix

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wankrtron said:
have you ever seen a video wrorkstation? there is shit strung everywhere. tapes, cables, notes, jog dials, vtrs, monitors, the list goes on and on. my station looks like a bomb went off.

Truer words have not been spoken.

Aside from the USB jog wheel, (DAMN I gotta get me one of those!) I'd invest in either a FW/USB PCI card or a FW/USB external hub. We're serious when we say that A) you need more ports and B) you'll use 'em.
 

wankrtron

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ProphetSix said:
Truer words have not been spoken.

Aside from the USB jog wheel, (DAMN I gotta get me one of those!) I'd invest in either a FW/USB PCI card or a FW/USB external hub. We're serious when we say that A) you need more ports and B) you'll use 'em.
the jog wheel is great! i love it! but honestly, i dont have any extra firewire cards or ports. thats probably because most of my video goes onto an Xraid, so im running a fiber channel card directly to the Xraid. but i can definately see how youd need a fw pci card if you dont have a raid. and fw drives are "daisy chainable." so a fw and usb2.0 card would be a good option to pick up.
 

Zepher

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Can you fit two drives into the G5 towers? I was under the impression that you can only have one internal drive in that big tower..
 

Brett13

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my $0.02:
Keep the 9800
Get the ram from crucial
keep the 2.5
get rid of the gigE PCI-x card as the G5 already has GigE built in
max out the 2 SATA's
get a jog wheel-they rule and save sooooo much mousing time
lose the airport-you can get it for $79 later if you need it

and most importantly-keep in mind that right now Apple is delaying and canceling some G5 orders, lowering already ordered G5 prices, telling academic outlets that there are "G5 architecture advances coming", and eol ing the single G5. Which all point to new G5's in the Spring. But if you cant wait go ahead.
 

Black Morty Rackham

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Brett13 said:
and most importantly-keep in mind that right now Apple is delaying and canceling some G5 orders, lowering already ordered G5 prices, telling academic outlets that there are "G5 architecture advances coming", and eol ing the single G5. Which all point to new G5's in the Spring. But if you cant wait go ahead.
Link?
 

gigglebyte

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yeah...I find it hard to believe that some people are being told that there are changes on the way...I just checked the site and a standard single 1.8 is a same day ship and a custom one is only 2-4 which is a normal turn time
 

wankrtron

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WS6 said:
Can you fit two drives into the G5 towers? I was under the impression that you can only have one internal drive in that big tower..
yes, there are two slots loaded up with sata power and sata for your drives.

and airport isnt needed in this computer. youve already got gigabit built in. and if you plan on doing ANY type of file transfers over your network ( youd be suprised how often we did ths) airport is NOT the way to go.

on another note,
if there are updates coming, i hope they have done something about the file copying times. it seems they put too much bandwidth to the processor, taking away from disk usage so in the g5s, copying from disk to disk, or duplicating etc takes longer than the g4s did.

oh, and Phrophet. the jog dial i got is this the shuttle pro v.2. it is pretty pimp. i dont know what i would do without it.
 

Black Morty Rackham

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gigglebyte said:
yeah...I find it hard to believe that some people are being told that there are changes on the way...I just checked the site and a standard single 1.8 is a same day ship and a custom one is only 2-4 which is a normal turn time
Same here in Sweden. The iPod mini has been increased to 6 days, though... Does it mean they don't have enough of them, or than an upgrade is in the work? Who knows?
 

gigglebyte

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I would probably say they are running low...they are 5-7 days here in the states but you never know..maybe something is in the works for the iPod Minis
 
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