Driverless Cars Can't Change Lanes

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Kyle_Bennett, May 23, 2018.

  1. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    Did you know that driverless cars have issues changing lanes? It seems to come down to the fact that everyone else is driving like an asshole, but the driverless cars are not. Solution? Make driverless cars drive more like assholes. Problem solved. MIT News discusses how driverless cars need to do more with as little information as possible...just like most humans drivers do.


    The problem is that if traffic is fast enough and dense enough, precomputed buffer zones may be too restrictive. An autonomous vehicle will fail to change lanes at all, whereas a human driver would cheerfully zip around the roadway.

    With the MIT researchers’ system, if the default buffer zones are leading to performance that’s far worse than a human driver’s, the system will compute new buffer zones on the fly — complete with proof of collision avoidance.
     
  2. mord

    mord Limp Gawd

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    If they program them to follow the four or five car length (whatever it is) following distance as a requirement before they merge behind someone, good luck in most cities. I drive a rental in DC somewhat often and typically you merge over when there is a gap big enough to fit the ethical justification of GPP between two cars.
     
  3. Sonicks

    Sonicks [H]ard|Gawd

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    Assholes indeed.

    If you put your blinker on to change lanes, just watch how quickly the car in the lane you want to get into begins to speed up to prevent that. Heaven forbid you get in front of them.
     
  4. raz-0

    raz-0 [H]ardness Supreme

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    This is one of the things I said is a true barrier to driverless cars and why their track record is not yet realistic enough to judge vs human performance. In so many places, the places people will want driverless cars and have the cash for them, the roads are past 100% capacity.
     
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  5. katanaD

    katanaD [H]ard|Gawd

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    i like those who follow so close to the car in front they can tell what they had for dinner before the person is done farting...


    but the ones that really make me chuckle are the ones who whip around from behind to cut in front of you because your obviously going too slow.. because you dared to leave a couple car lengths between you and the person in front
     
  6. PaulP

    PaulP Limp Gawd

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    So, the solution is to make the self-driving cars as bad as human drivers? What's the fricken point then?
     
  7. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ Little Bitch

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    changing lanes is for the weak

    if you don't know how to make a left hand turn in to oncoming traffic from 6 lanes over i don't know what to tell you.
     
  8. Meeho

    Meeho 2[H]4U

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    Can the driverless cars see through rear windows and windshiels from a couple of cars in front of them?
     
  9. Armenius

    Armenius [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'll gladly open a gap if the person is using their blinker. If they try and move over without one, though, that is when I speed up to close it.
     
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  10. Jaymzkerten

    Jaymzkerten Limp Gawd

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    It's one thing to leave room in front of you, it's something completely different to watch all the cars in front of you disappear while you putter along doing 55 in a 65 in the far left lane.
     
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  11. Jaymzkerten

    Jaymzkerten Limp Gawd

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    Come to California, you'll see the exact opposite behavior 99% of the time.
     
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  12. katanaD

    katanaD [H]ard|Gawd

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    LOL yep.. if you have to look to hard to see the car in front.. pull the hell over and let people pass.. but alas no
     
  13. lenardo2

    lenardo2 n00bie

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    i've noticed on my new car that has adaptive cruise control that the "buffer" is too large on cars changing lanes... i tested the cruise control and every single time a car came into my lane,,,my car...slowed down due to the other car being "too close" via the buffer it wants to maintain from car to car...gotta look up if i can reduce the buffer by ~30% or so...
     
  14. Sonicks

    Sonicks [H]ard|Gawd

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    I knew it!

    My theory about Texas drivers getting progressively worse due to the migration of Californians is true. GTFO!
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
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  15. Armenius

    Armenius [H]ardForum Junkie

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  16. Retronym

    Retronym Something big is coming.

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    But then you figure out you can control people with puppet strings by using the signal when you need them to pass.
     
  17. Cyraxx

    Cyraxx [H]ardness Supreme

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    I wouldn't say it's a barrier per say. The issue here is that the driverless companies have to be extra cautious at all times - because everyone and every thing wants to sue them for no real reason. So they tune their software to be excessively safe. There will come a time in life where they will finally be able to turn that cautiousness down to a reasonable level... ssomeday...
     
  18. BSmith

    BSmith Gawd

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    In Texas, turn signals are the sign for starting the race!

    Other irritations;

    I'll be driving along, fairly close to the person in front of me, while there is 100 yards of space behind me and have people charge up, from the other lane and cut me off, whcn they had plenty of time and space to get in behind me.

    Then there are those idiots who stop in the left lane of the freeway and wait for an opening so they can dart across three lanes of traffic to get to thier exit. Minutes before that, they were in the right lane, but had to get around those last three cars and ended up in the left lane.

    People on onramps who wait until they are on the freeway before they accelerate to match speed. No fraking idea what merge means. Same people who also expect you to move out of the way when they are getting on the freeway.

    None of the above problems will exist once all cars are driverless. That is not an endorsement for the technology. I hope to be long dead and buried before that day comes.
     
  19. Twisted Kidney

    Twisted Kidney 2[H]4U

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    Last time I was near the city showed me that cars with drivers can't change lanes either.
     
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  20. trparky

    trparky Gawd

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    Just where the f**k did that car come from? God damn.
     
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  21. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    Strange... many times I think that people have issues changing lanes too. But I've been saying this from the beginning, driverless cars only work if no drivered(?) cars are driving in the same area, want to make freeways a tool of the commute? Then restrict people from driving on them, take highways and other city streets if you feel like you must drive.

    And the opposite of that, people who either a) put their blinker on right as their moving over (I'll admit I've been guilty of this), and b) people who put their blinker on who think that's a public right of way for them to change lanes, even if they're going 10mph slower than cars in the lane they are trying to get over to (this is often seen when someone gets onto the freeway, and they immediately want to merge over for no reason other than being in a faster lane).
     
  22. Nobu

    Nobu [H]ard|Gawd

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    In utah on the interstate between ogden and salt lake it often slowed to a crawl. 5 lanes of stopped cars, switching lanes every 500 feet so they can get where they're going a couple minutes faster. Meanwhile people who are trying to take the off ramp or enter the hwy can't because almost nobody leaves a gap.

    In that situation, I'll leave about an 18-wheeler's length between me and the car ahead, so anyone can merge over with room to spare. I'm still traveling at the same speed, so as long as five people don't jump in front of me we'll still get there in the same amount of time.
     
  23. Smashing Young Man

    Smashing Young Man [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'll bitch about traffic as well.

    I hate it when people in groceries stores stop to congregate with friends and family in the middle of the aisle, paying no attention to their fellow shoppers whom they're blocking.

    I get even more angry at people in convenience stores who take their slow sweet time at the register paying for their items or flirting with the cute cashier, while the line of waiting customers grows behind them. Extra teeth-gnashing occurs when it is some asshole buying lottery tickets and scratching them off at the register then buying more.
     
  24. T_A

    T_A Limp Gawd

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    I saw on the news not long ago a demo from Mobileye self driving car , they showed how the AI recognizes situations when people are being assholes and it responds accordingly
    (wasn't perfect , driver had to brake to prevent car to run a red light)

    anyway , everyone can agree that if all cars are autonomous then it would not only be easier to design a system like that , but there would also be much less traffic.
     
  25. mtrupi

    mtrupi Gawd

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    Speaking of lane changing, I actually had someone let me merge into traffic yesterday. I almost didn't know what to do for a moment. Must have been a native of the PNW. Used to be known as the "you go, no you go" state.
     
  26. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    Only the weak use blinkers..The strong look for a car sized opening with a couple inches to spare and yanks their car in place leaving no time for the weak to be an asshole.

    /s
     
  27. viper1152012

    viper1152012 Gawd

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    Here in salem Oregon, you get 2 types, courteous and the assholes newb.

    The courteous drivers include me and like 12 other people.

    I signal when I want into a lane (dont faint) EVEN WHEN I AM ALONE ON THE ROAD.

    I go the limit and maybe a bit faster if pushed by an aggressive jerk. Thereis a constant rush like everyone is an exception to the rules. Not doing 10mph over, you must be a super villian

    Heaven forbid you try to merge with a blinker. People treat their spot in line like there waiting for a new console release.

    I want to know where in the usa people follow the traffic laws... Like for real.
     
  28. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    portals
     
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  29. mord

    mord Limp Gawd

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    I agree compleatly. These are the chicken before the egg roads I think. They could get a huge benefit from automated cars, but untill a large percentage are automated, it will be the hardest for automated cars to do well there.

    To many idiots to deal with that don't drive by the rules.
     
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  30. Wolf_Tech

    Wolf_Tech Limp Gawd

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    Tech companies master plan get ppl hooked on cell phones make them bad drivers then invent driverless cars so in time be forced to use them. Brilliant planning.
     
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  31. Wolf_Tech

    Wolf_Tech Limp Gawd

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    Yep paused it honda civic driver.
     
  32. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    No surprise here.

    If you follow the drivers manual in most states, it dictates a 2-3 second following distance to be safe (presumably 2 for smaller more nimble vehicles, and closer to 3 for trucks and SUV's), and almost no one maintains these safe following distances.


    To be clear, a two second following distance is as follows:

    Code:
    Speed (mph)     Distance (Feet)      ~ Car lengths
    35              102.7                  6.8
    40              117.3                  7.8
    45              132.0                  8.8
    50              146.7                  9.8
    55              161.3                  10.8
    60              176.0                  11.7
    65              190.7                  12.7
    70              205.3                  13.7
    75              220.0                  14.7
    80              234.7                  15.6
    85              249.3                  16.6
    90              264.0                  17.6
    
    So, if a self driving car is travelling down the road at 65mph and is programmed to follow state safety rules, it's going to be looking for a rather large space before switching lanes. 12.7 car lengths in front + 1 car length (itself) + 12.7 car lengths behind, fr a grand total of 26.4 car lengths. Since people drive like asshats and completely disregard all rules and typically follow the car infront of them so closely you cant even see their headlights, this self driving car is unlikely to find this very large gap it would be looking for.
     
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  33. Johnx64

    Johnx64 My poof SuX

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    Blame jackasses that like to speed up to get in front of people and then go slow\make a turn. I'll drive how it make sme happy if that includes speeding up so you can get behind me. Oh you missed your turn maybe you shouldn't have waited till your turn was 200ft away before you decided it was time to switch lanes.
     
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  34. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    I'd be tempted to follow someone like that into the parking lot and give them a tongue lashing.
     
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  35. cdabc123

    cdabc123 [H]ard|Gawd

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    simple solution. give these cars good breaks and have them ride the bumper of the car in the other lane when switching lanes. no need for a buffer zone if your car can stop quicker and has near instant reaction times.
     
  36. BSmith

    BSmith Gawd

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    I can feel the road rage building in those nitwits who think having a drivers license grants them the right to use public roads as race ways. I actually hearrd a numpty proclaim, "I cannot stand for anyone to be in front of me!".

    Yeah, that idiot needs to be forced into a driverless car. Hmmm,....road rage solution,....hmmmm.
     
  37. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    The buffer is there for a good reason. It's to make sure if the car in front of you suddenly stops, you can stop too.

    All these people who drive too close are the ones who are responsible for most accidents.

    Again, here is the appropriate following distance if you are in a car. (Add 50% if in a truck or SUV)

    Code:
    Speed (mph)     Distance (Feet)      ~ Car lengths
    35              102.7                  6.8
    40              117.3                  7.8
    45              132.0                  8.8
    50              146.7                  9.8
    55              161.3                  10.8
    60              176.0                  11.7
    65              190.7                  12.7
    70              205.3                  13.7
    75              220.0                  14.7
    80              234.7                  15.6
    85              249.3                  16.6
    90              264.0                  17.6
    
    Granted, an autonomous vehicle needs less space to compensate for human reaction time, and can probably get away with a shorter distance.
     
  38. zkostik

    zkostik Gawd

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    No kidding, in DC area you don't even have to be in the city for that kind of merging. You can't get a 4-5 car lengths gap even on a good slow day or weekend around here most of the time.
     
  39. Galvin

    Galvin 2[H]4U

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    Getting in a line of cars. Sometimes you just have to be super aggressive. Close to causing an accident. Otherwise you'll never get in.
    Last week was pulling out of a driveway. Was a wall of cars. I knew if I wasn't aggressive i'd be waiting there all day. Just slowly came out. Now i'm blocking half the road. I had to get in. So pulled in, guy beeped his horn at me. Just the way things are.

    A driverless car probably sit in the driveway for 30+ min waiting.
     
  40. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    So this is when they don't know how its going to work out? Obviously they can program the car to change the lanes, they aren't sure or something? How this is announced like a development of any importance, only indicates to me how profundly not ready this tech, I mean if this shit is this stupid right now, along with running into standing objects, shit.... But but but machine learning is logarithmic progress, and you just don't understand it.. yeah i was buying into that shit, i am also understanding human hubris is boundless sometimes.. the hubris in this case is engineer, software people telling each other they created intelligent learning machines with logarithmic learning curves.