Double Height DDR4!

dvsman

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I didn't see anything about this yet. Thought it was a cool, random thing while web surfing the news.

2019-01-25-image-24.jpg


https://www.techspot.com/news/78447-double-height-ddr4-offers-twice-capacity-but-fraction.html
 

ZodaEX

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That looks terrible and it would get in the way of my cpu heatsink.
 

ZodaEX

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Than double height DDR4 DIMMs aren't going to work in your machine anyway.

Read my earlier post. It's not so much a problem of being compadible with my system as it is being a problem being compadible with my CPU heatsink, which I plan on carrying over to my next system when I upgrade this old system. You assume way too much about my current situation for no good reason.
 

thebufenator

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Appears to have use cases.

Would make a great way to upgrade a ryzen as a cheap hypervisor......maybe.
 

Dan_D

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Read my earlier post. It's not so much a problem of being compadible with my system as it is being a problem being compadible with my CPU heatsink, which I plan on carrying over to my next system when I upgrade this old system. You assume way too much about my current situation for no good reason.

Negative. It doesn't work that way. You can't install 32GB DIMMs in pairs on a chipset that doesn't support RAM with that kind of density. The largest modules your system likely supports is 16.
 

ZodaEX

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Negative. It doesn't work that way. You can't install 32GB DIMMs in pairs on a chipset that doesn't support RAM with that kind of density. The largest modules your system likely supports is 16.

Try re-reading what I said slow and carefully because you clearly didn't read it properly. I never claimed that my system supports 32GB dimms. You inferred that, and you're wrong. It's okay man, it happens to the best of us, but today it was your turn to be wrong.
 

Dan_D

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Try re-reading what I said slow and carefully because you clearly didn't read it properly. I never claimed that my system supports 32GB dimms. You inferred that, and you're wrong. It's okay man, it happens to the best of us, but today it was your turn to be wrong.

No, you didn't. You highlighted the heat sink compatibility as the real problem. However, I disagree in that the larger issue is your motherboard and CPU memory controller. I understand perfectly what you meant.

My Ryzen 5 2400G does very nicely on air :D

Well, you need a CPU fast enough to hurt itself to need water. :) J/K
 

KazeoHin

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So, wait, what is the point of double-height? Don't server DIMMs cram just as many chips on to single-height sticks? what necessitates the double height PCB?
 

Dan_D

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So, wait, what is the point of double-height? Don't server DIMMs cram just as many chips on to single-height sticks? what necessitates the double height PCB?

It's probably a way to offer greater capacity without using higher density memory chips. From the article, it seems that you are effectively putting two DIMMs in each slot. Of course there are very few motherboards which are compatible with them.
 

KazeoHin

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It's probably a way to offer greater capacity without using higher density memory chips. From the article, it seems that you are effectively putting two DIMMs in each slot. Of course there are very few motherboards which are compatible with them.

I understand the idea of High-cap ECC chips, but some unbuffered RAM has the same number of chips but packed WAY tighter on the PCB, negating the need for these 'double height' DIMMs, I'm wondering why the manufacturers just couldn't do that instead.

I mean look at these bad boys.

micron-8-gb-ddr3-l-1333-server-ecc-ram-special-offer-minicomp-1512-27-Minicomp@1.jpg
 

Dan_D

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These are non-registered and non-ECC. Secondly, the higher density chips cost a lot more. PCB's are essentially cheap so there may be a cost advantage here. There are also some issues with higher density IC's, so there could also be technical reasons for it. Its a cool product, but obviously not for everyone.
 

ZodaEX

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No, you didn't. You highlighted the heat sink compatibility as the real problem. However, I disagree in that the larger issue is your motherboard and CPU memory controller. I understand perfectly what you meant.



Well, you need a CPU fast enough to hurt itself to need water. :) J/K

That sure sounds like back-tracking to me. I see people do it here every day who are shown to be wrong. But regardless of that, if that's what you meant then you should have said that in the first place instead of trying so hard to pick apart my simple opinion.
 

Dan_D

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That sure sounds like back-tracking to me. I see people do it here every day who are shown to be wrong. But regardless of that, if that's what you meant then you should have said that in the first place instead of trying so hard to pick apart my simple opinion.

Really....you want to go there? I'm not back tracking on shit. I said what I said and I stand by the statements I made.

First you said this:

That looks terrible and it would get in the way of my cpu heatsink.

This indicates that you were only considering the CPU's heat sink as the main problem or only point of concern. At this time, I had no idea what you had for your system so I'm just looking at what you said here. It is for this reason I said the following:

With today's modern CPU's, you should be water cooling so this isn't a problem. :)

Again, I had no idea what you were using but I firmly believe that with most modern CPU's, you should use an AIO or custom loop. While there are some heat sinks that do reach entry level AIO territory, there isn't much of a cost benefit to going with traditional heat sinks in most cases and the AIO has the benefit of eliminating clearance issues. That's why I said what I said. It was really a statement based on your statement and the processor wasn't really something I considered at that point. Then you brought up your 7 year old CPU.

Irrelevant. My cpu is 7 years old and I don't use water cooling.

At this point, it became obvious to me that your cooler of choice isn't actually the biggest problem with using the double-height DIMMs. That's why I made my next comment.

Than double height DDR4 DIMMs aren't going to work in your machine anyway.

Then you said the following:

Read my earlier post. It's not so much a problem of being compadible with my system as it is being a problem being compadible with my CPU heatsink, which I plan on carrying over to my next system when I upgrade this old system. You assume way too much about my current situation for no good reason.

I didn't need to reread jack shit. With your existing system, your heat sink isn't the main problem. In an upgrade scenario, the heat sink is a minor thing to change out cost wise. The fact that these modules work only on a handful of motherboards and your motherboard has never been QVL tested with 32GB DIMMs of any kind is a larger problem than simple heat sink clearance issues which you can overcome in your existing system. The motherboard compatibility can't be as it isn't up to you. You then bring up carrying over your heat sink, which may or may not be possible or ill-advised depending on what you have. That's fine, if its possible that's your choice. . Again, if you went to a more modern platform I'd still advocate going for an AIO over a traditional heat sink and fan for clearance reasons. I literally bring this up in EVERY review and have for about 13 years. I'm not assuming anything about your situation. I took your initial statement for what it is and commented on cooling alone. You brought up your current configuration and then mentioned moving the heat sink to another build.

As a result, I commented on the existing configuration. You bring up moving the cooling to another build and that's something you wouldn't do if you really wanted to run 32GB modules. Furthermore, clearance issues are bad enough using many heat sinks that only low profile DIMMs work in the first slot anyway. So 4x DIMM configurations can get problematic with traditional heat sinks. Another reason I don't recommend them.

Try re-reading what I said slow and carefully because you clearly didn't read it properly. I never claimed that my system supports 32GB dimms. You inferred that, and you're wrong. It's okay man, it happens to the best of us, but today it was your turn to be wrong.

You didn't read my comments properly and clearly didn't understand them. Along with learning to spell "compatible" you need to learn what "back tracking" actually means (as I am not back tracking on anything) and what the definition of wrong is. I never said you claimed anything about what your system supports. I simply stated that motherboard compatibility is a bigger problem than heat sink clearance because its impossible to solve and the latter limitation isn't. I wouldn't have even brought up motherboard compatibility until you made a statement concerning the age of your existing hardware.

When you make a statement such as this: "That looks terrible and it would get in the way of my cpu heatsink.", I can only address that statement by itself. I chose to make a statement about how AIO or custom water cooling is better for modern systems. This is simply my opinion but I think its correct when price isn't a consideration. You added additional context by telling me about your actual hardware which led to me further commenting on you using that RAM with your system.

If I am guilty of anything, its in assuming you had a more modern system to begin with which is why I commented on using an AIO or water cooling with a modern CPU. Of course, you actually brought up moving the heat sink to a newer build which still doesn't rule out my statements about motherboard compatibility or change my opinion on heat sinks in general.

I suppose I am guilty of over analyzing what was said, but I don't simply make comments like those above simply to address one post but to talk about the product as it seemed no one really read the article on the RAM itself.
 
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ZodaEX

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Really....you want to go there? I'm not back tracking on shit. I said what I said and I stand by the statements I made.

First you said this:



This indicates that you were only considering the CPU's heat sink as the main problem or only point of concern. At this time, I had no idea what you had for your system so I'm just looking at what you said here. It is for this reason I said the following:



Again, I had no idea what you were using but I firmly believe that with most modern CPU's, you should use an AIO or custom loop. While there are some heat sinks that do reach entry level AIO territory, there isn't much of a cost benefit to going with traditional heat sinks in most cases and the AIO has the benefit of eliminating clearance issues. That's why I said what I said. It was really a statement based on your statement and the processor wasn't really something I considered at that point. Then you brought up your 7 year old CPU.



At this point, it became obvious to me that your cooler of choice isn't actually the biggest problem with using the double-height DIMMs. That's why I made my next comment.



Then you said the following:



I didn't need to reread jack shit. With your existing system, your heat sink isn't the main problem. In an upgrade scenario, the heat sink is a minor thing to change out cost wise. The fact that these modules work only on a handful of motherboards and your motherboard has never been QVL tested with 32GB DIMMs of any kind is a larger problem than simple heat sink clearance issues which you can overcome in your existing system. The motherboard compatibility can't be as it isn't up to you. You then bring up carrying over your heat sink, which may or may not be possible or ill-advised depending on what you have. That's fine, if its possible that's your choice. . Again, if you went to a more modern platform I'd still advocate going for an AIO over a traditional heat sink and fan for clearance reasons. I literally bring this up in EVERY review and have for about 13 years. I'm not assuming anything about your situation. I took your initial statement for what it is and commented on cooling alone. You brought up your current configuration and then mentioned moving the heat sink to another build.

As a result, I commented on the existing configuration. You bring up moving the cooling to another build and that's something you wouldn't do if you really wanted to run 32GB modules. Furthermore, clearance issues are bad enough using many heat sinks that only low profile DIMMs work in the first slot anyway. So 4x DIMM configurations can get problematic with traditional heat sinks. Another reason I don't recommend them.



You didn't read my comments properly and clearly didn't understand them. Along with learning to spell "compatible" you need to learn what "back tracking" actually means (as I am not back tracking on anything) and what the definition of wrong is. I never said you claimed anything about what your system supports. I simply stated that motherboard compatibility is a bigger problem than heat sink clearance because its impossible to solve and the latter limitation isn't. I wouldn't have even brought up motherboard compatibility until you made a statement concerning the age of your existing hardware.

When you make a statement such as this: "That looks terrible and it would get in the way of my cpu heatsink.", I can only address that statement by itself. I chose to make a statement about how AIO or custom water cooling is better for modern systems. This is simply my opinion but I think its correct when price isn't a consideration. You added additional context by telling me about your actual hardware which led to me further commenting on you using that RAM with your system.

If I am guilty of anything, its in assuming you had a more modern system to begin with which is why I commented on using an AIO or water cooling with a modern CPU. Of course, you actually brought up moving the heat sink to a newer build which still doesn't rule out my statements about motherboard compatibility or change my opinion on heat sinks in general.

I suppose I am guilty of over analyzing what was said, but I don't simply make comments like those above simply to address one post but to talk about the product as it seemed no one really read the article on the RAM itself.

Oh okay, so this mostly boils down to your opinion that you think that I should be using an AIO cooler. Well I do not share that opinion with you, and you know what? That's fine. I'm entitled to have my own personal opinions and so are you. I'm very satisfied with my CPU cooler personally and it's become an almost sentimental component in my system because not only how long I've used it, but also because of how well it works for me. Different strokes for different folks as they say.
 

Dan_D

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Oh okay, so this mostly boils down to your opinion that you think that I should be using an AIO cooler. Well I do not share that opinion with you, and you know what? That's fine. I'm entitled to have my own personal opinions and so are you. I'm very satisfied with my CPU cooler personally and it's become an almost sentimental component in my system because not only how long I've used it, but also because of how well it works for me. Different strokes for different folks as they say.

Exactly. And that's perfectly fine.
 

Rifter0876

Weaksauce
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Nov 1, 2017
Messages
109
Bad idea, will get in the way of many CPU coolers, every ram stick in my last 3 builds has been 1-5mm away from CPU heatsink, one of them i even had to move ram over into farther slots to fit CPU heatsink.
 

dvsman

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If I was using a slot constrained setup, I'd try these out. An AIO cooler would be easy to setup using these. Or alternatively if I was using a full size AT/ATX board (like my old x99 2011-3 setup) AKA super roomy setup. The only downside would likely be $$$$, according to the news the DDR4 2666 for $799 isn't a great deal.
 

mda

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How far out are actual consumer products with DDR5, that companies are investing into doing these things?

If the spec is finalized sometime this year, we'll see it by 2020 or 2021?
 

darrpara

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I wonder how this will change the mini itx boards in the future. I could easily see someone making a true workstation in a SFF. I'd totally have gone to 64 GB if I wasn't limited on my setup.
 
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