Doomsday Torpedo Detailed in Pentagon Document

motomonkey

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Some facts and some information.

Waves propagate through a medium, they do not displace the medium.
Tsunamis need a "reflecting" source to focus their energy.
Energy in a wave dissipates at the square or cube (fractal effects, the geometry matters) as the wave expands.
Water is one of the best radiation shields (rivalling lead in efficacy) available.
Cobalt60 is 3 times heavier than water. It sinks.
Cobalt60 has a half-life of ~5 years and decays to a stable isotope of Nickel.
Tests at Bikini Atoll had the ships ridiculously close to one another in very shallow water.
alpha and beta radiation are very easily protected against.
gamma and xray radiation are stopped by dense metal...or water.
Half-lives: that which burns bright, burns fast. Granite has one of the longest half-lives known. Yet, we don't put our pots on top of granite counters and watch our food cook.

It would be more effective to place a nuclear mine in a harbor than to try to use this against a nation's waterfront. Heck, it'd be simpler for Iran to stick a nuke in a container and hide it on a container ship and sail it in.


All of which is mostly irrelevant.

The amount of energy liberated in a 100 megaton subsurface detonation would send an immense cloud of radioactive debris into the Stratosphere, The cobalt 60 would vaporize and go right along with it. while you are correct in that immediate detonation site effects would not be as severe as people probably imagine due to most of the energy liberated going into the creation of a new, self illuminated artificial harbor, the long term effects over the rest of the planet and downwind of the detonation would be catastrophic.
 
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BloodyIron

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I wish we could just get along with them and have fun playing video games together. Instead of having to waste all our time and efforts on this absurdity.

Like, what do the Russians even want?
 

Old_Way

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I wish we could just get along with them and have fun playing video games together. Instead of having to waste all our time and efforts on this absurdity.

Like, what do the Russians even want?

Russia is all about state security because Russia is one of the least defensible countries on the planet. It's huge in area and the population centers are easy to march into... like most all the rest of the European plain.

If you have some time (an hour), this is a really interesting look at the world... including Russia (starts about 3:30 into the presentation after the intro's):
 

Rahh

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I wish we could just get along with them and have fun playing video games together. Instead of having to waste all our time and efforts on this absurdity.

Like, what do the Russians even want?

You make it sound like we get along with ourselves and play video games. Have you been in an online video game recently? lol!
 

Khahhblaab

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Tests at Bikini Atoll had the ships ridiculously close to one another in very shallow water.

They were so close together because it 'was' a test to see if the navy could keep navy'n after a nuclear bomb blast. Ships sunk, some remained afloat. They were all contaminated. Its kinda why the Airforce were the first to disburse them. (DKS is correct), first nuclear disaster.
 

BloodyIron

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Yes, I run tournaments and gaming events...

People getting upset in video games is far better than people shooting each other in person.

You make it sound like we get along with ourselves and play video games. Have you been in an online video game recently? lol!
 

Uvaman2

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I wish we could just get along with them and have fun playing video games together. Instead of having to waste all our time and efforts on this absurdity.

Like, what do the Russians even want?
Probably to be left alone and make some money?
 

sfsuphysics

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Someone's ability to make a neat looking youtube video doesn't exactly give them credibility. Case in point around the 1:45 mark where he says the half-life of uranium is about 2000 years he kind of lost me.... then confirmed it later by mentioning 225 waves flooding San Francisco.
 
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lilbabycat

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Someone's ability to make a neat looking youtube video doesn't exactly give them credibility. Case in point around the 1:45 mark where he says the half-life of uranium is about 2000 years he kind of lost me.... then confirmed it later by mentioning 225 waves flooding San Francisco.
What about the "also the possibility of the whole planet fracturing apart into little pieces" at the end?
 

motomonkey

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Someone's ability to make a neat looking youtube video doesn't exactly give them credibility. Case in point around the 1:45 mark where he says the half-life of uranium is about 2000 years he kind of lost me.... then confirmed it later by mentioning 225 waves flooding San Francisco.

whoever came up with this video evidently works for the weekly world news as his day job.
 
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The saddest part about nuclear weapons is how permanent the damage is to the planet in comparison to how minor humanities day-to-day dispute are. For example, WWI started after Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated. Does anyone give a shit about that today? No. Would the planet still be screwed if we had a huge nuclear war back in 1914? You bet.
 

Johnx64

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Yes, I run tournaments and gaming events...

People getting upset in video games is far better than people shooting each other in person.



Until someone makes a fake 911 call and you get killed by the cops over a dumbass game that you won't even care about when the next must play game comes out.
 

kju1

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Theoretical physicist michio kaku calls it the uranium barrier. As a civilization discovers atomic science, there's two paths. One is to decimate the planet with nuclear weapons. The other is to develop breeder reactors (or close to) to provide near limitless energy for the good of society.

Maybe we're on the verge of deciding which way to go.

Well we arent using breeder reactors...so fail.
 

THRESHIN

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Well we arent using breeder reactors...so fail.

Not yet we aren't. We're so frightened of radiation that research can't get funding. We seem quite happy to build more weapons though. More of a humanity fail.
 

kju1

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Not yet we aren't. We're so frightened of radiation that research can't get funding. We seem quite happy to build more weapons though. More of a humanity fail.

Whenever someone at work goes on about how radiation is so dangerous I ask them if they ever go out in the sun. Or use a cell phone. Or a microwave...or anything electronic ;)

I like to set them off ;)
 

sfsuphysics

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Not yet we aren't. We're so frightened of radiation that research can't get funding. We seem quite happy to build more weapons though. More of a humanity fail.
Yeah but what research is needed? Seriously the amount of self serving spanking for breeder reactors by pro-nuclear people (here and elsewhere) you'd think it was basically already done you just need to sprinkle some uranium into the reactor and bammo clean, cheap, power.
 

Dekoth-E-

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I was floored when I found out that the military has a term for when a atomic bomb is dropped or almost detonates. "Broken arrow" is more than a movie. You are correct about the top two, but dont forget the Titan Missile silo disaster. Seriously close to a "Broken arrow' detonation. Could have took out a corner of Arkansas.

Hard to believe that a nuclear warhead got blown out of a missile silo fire fueled by burning missile fuel and didn't detonate when the missile exploded. Got blown some thousands of feet away and didn't detonate first upon being blown out of the silo and again not when it finally crash landed back to earth.

W'O-f***g-WOW <Double U-OH-F'N-Double U-WOW>

...and as you said, there are others. A few missing, one in Georgia: "Sum of all fears" - anyone.

Missing A-bomb found by unscrupulous folks and sells to the highest bidder. Dont fear the guys that has many nuclear weapons, worry about the guy that has one!

----------> after thought.

had it detonated, what would have been the chance that it may have been thought to be an incoming foreign blast and retaliation against someone had been set in motion.

I guess sometimes I forget most people don't know this. It actually really irritates me when I see movies misuse military terms like this as I used to work on nuclear weapons in the AF.
 

DKS

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The saddest part about nuclear weapons is how permanent the damage is to the planet in comparison to how minor humanities day-to-day dispute are. For example, WWI started after Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated. Does anyone give a shit about that today? No. Would the planet still be screwed if we had a huge nuclear war back in 1914? You bet.

Many of the nations in Europe where WW1 battles were fought still maintain military bomb disposal units whose express task is to remove, defuse and destroy munitions found by farmers in their fields or contractors during construction digging left over from former wars. Some of these are not small explosives. Same with WW2, Korea, Vietnam. Every conflict leaves a lethal residue. In many parts of the world that residue is land mines. People still die. The land is still not habitable. We are still screwed.
 

DKS

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I guess sometimes I forget most people don't know this. It actually really irritates me when I see movies misuse military terms like this as I used to work on nuclear weapons in the AF.

True. The warhead was thrown a hundred feet and the internal safety mechanisms stopped it from being more than a lump of metal. The explosion was the missile propellants themselves, I believe.
 

VoloxitySF

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Yeah, there's a documentary about this incident on PBS (and currently available on Netflix and other streaming services) called "Command and Control". Definitely worth a watch. It all happened due to an errantly dropped wrench socket. The aftermath was poorly handled, though it does at least validate the foresight of the system safety engineers that ultimately prevented detonation of the warhead.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/command-and-control/

I watched this last night after reading this thread. A very well made documentary indeed. Would watch again.
 

Uvaman2

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Whenever someone at work goes on about how radiation is so dangerous I ask them if they ever go out in the sun. Or use a cell phone. Or a microwave...or anything electronic ;)

I like to set them off ;)
Whats that got to do with anything? Yes i know those are types of radiation, but its a nonsense argument.
 

Draax

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100 knots? Possibly one of those supercavitation torpedos.
 

Dekoth-E-

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True. The warhead was thrown a hundred feet and the internal safety mechanisms stopped it from being more than a lump of metal. The explosion was the missile propellants themselves, I believe.
Right and a big thing people don't understand is that these weapons absolutely cannot go nuclear by accident. The firing sequence has to be extremely precise and that just isn't going to happen. Sure it will create a mess if it gets destroyed, but not nearly as big of one as certain groups would have you believe.
 

motomonkey

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Yeah but what research is needed? Seriously the amount of self serving spanking for breeder reactors by pro-nuclear people (here and elsewhere) you'd think it was basically already done you just need to sprinkle some uranium into the reactor and bammo clean, cheap, power.


The only research needed at this point is related to disposal of waste products. When everyone is shouting NIMBY, the best storage and disposal plans are useless. We have been trying to get Yucca flats going for years with little luck. we are storing all this crap "on site" for lack of places to put it,

Whats that got to do with anything? Yes i know those are types of radiation, but its a nonsense argument.

Technically the heat from a campfire is "radiation" people don't know the difference between Ionizing radiation and every other source of radiant energy in the universe. people look at you like you're crazy when you tell them they have more exposure to dangerous radiation from living in a brick house than the cumulative exposure from every nuclear reactor ever constructed. (unless you live in close to Chernobyl or Fukashima. oops.)
 

Comixbooks

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I hope this doesn't go off by mistake that could be a mess like the Forrestal aircraft carrier during Vietnam using munition bombs from WWII went off by mistake I work with a guy who was there and just got lucky.
 

kju1

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Many of the nations in Europe where WW1 battles were fought still maintain military bomb disposal units whose express task is to remove, defuse and destroy munitions found by farmers in their fields or contractors during construction digging left over from former wars. Some of these are not small explosives. Same with WW2, Korea, Vietnam. Every conflict leaves a lethal residue. In many parts of the world that residue is land mines. People still die. The land is still not habitable. We are still screwed.

I wouldnt say that land is still not habitable. Just that its dangerous to live on. People ARE in fact living on it.

Whats that got to do with anything? Yes i know those are types of radiation, but its a nonsense argument.

It has everything to do with it when the person says "radiation is bad and we must eliminate it as much as we can". As motomonkey said the conversation typically goes that nuclear plants (outside of catastrophic failures - which are EXTREMELY rare and almost impossible in modern reactors) emit less radiation than you get from taking an airline flight or inside your home.
 

Uvaman2

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I wouldnt say that land is still not habitable. Just that its dangerous to live on. People ARE in fact living on it.



It has everything to do with it when the person says "radiation is bad and we must eliminate it as much as we can". As motomonkey said the conversation typically goes that nuclear plants (outside of catastrophic failures - which are EXTREMELY rare and almost impossible in modern reactors) emit less radiation than you get from taking an airline flight or inside your home.


Any of the currently deployed reactors are the most stupid way you can make nuclear energy.
Period. Moronic pressure cooker design.
The original sin happened decades ago though, still, yet another moronic choice by humans.

https://thebreakthrough.org/index.php/programs/energy-and-climate/the-passion-of-alvin-weinberg

We should have gone with molten salt reactors. It they would be much safer, and yes radioactive materials are dangerous.
 
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Some facts and some information.

Waves propagate through a medium, they do not displace the medium.
Tsunamis need a "reflecting" source to focus their energy.
Energy in a wave dissipates at the square or cube (fractal effects, the geometry matters) as the wave expands.
Water is one of the best radiation shields (rivalling lead in efficacy) available.
Cobalt60 is 3 times heavier than water. It sinks.
Cobalt60 has a half-life of ~5 years and decays to a stable isotope of Nickel.
Tests at Bikini Atoll had the ships ridiculously close to one another in very shallow water.
alpha and beta radiation are very easily protected against.
gamma and xray radiation are stopped by dense metal...or water.
Half-lives: that which burns bright, burns fast. Granite has one of the longest half-lives known. Yet, we don't put our pots on top of granite counters and watch our food cook.

It would be more effective to place a nuclear mine in a harbor than to try to use this against a nation's waterfront. Heck, it'd be simpler for Iran to stick a nuke in a container and hide it on a container ship and sail it in.

Oh yeah? What's the half life of granite?
 

TwistedAegis

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Many of the nations in Europe where WW1 battles were fought still maintain military bomb disposal units whose express task is to remove, defuse and destroy munitions found by farmers in their fields or contractors during construction digging left over from former wars. Some of these are not small explosives. Same with WW2, Korea, Vietnam. Every conflict leaves a lethal residue. In many parts of the world that residue is land mines. People still die. The land is still not habitable. We are still screwed.

Remember one of those just in the past year - https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/huge-unexploded-ww2-bomb-discovered-9954065
 

c3k

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Oh yeah? What's the half life of granite?

http://hps.org/documents/Radiation_granite_countertops.pdf

https://www.epa.gov/radiation/granite-countertops-and-radiation

https://www.quora.com/Granite-is-radioactive-How-dangerous-is-that

Most of the radiation in granite (which is a broad descriptor of a lot of varieties and each has differences in which elements it contains) is from U238.

U238 has a half-life of about 4.5 Billion years.

That which burns bright, burns fast.
 

sfsuphysics

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http://hps.org/documents/Radiation_granite_countertops.pdf

https://www.epa.gov/radiation/granite-countertops-and-radiation

https://www.quora.com/Granite-is-radioactive-How-dangerous-is-that

Most of the radiation in granite (which is a broad descriptor of a lot of varieties and each has differences in which elements it contains) is from U238.

U238 has a half-life of about 4.5 Billion years.

That which burns bright, burns fast.
Not if you listen to the guy in the bomb video, uranium's half life is only 2000 years! Which probably is some quick calculation of 1/3rd the age of the Universe... i.e. 6000 years :D And said 4.5B is about 1/3rd the age of the Universe he must be right!
 

odditory

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After reading about this I can't help but realize what a miracle it is we haven't destroyed ourselves at this point. Russia and U.S. have god knows how many other world ending devices gathering dust, not to mention China. It's almost as scary as realizing that the leaders of those countries (Trump/Putin) have their fingers on global reset buttons.

Trump doesn't have his finger on any reset button because no one - certainly not military commanders - would carry out any order he shouted other than a cheeseburger.
 
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kju1

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Not if you listen to the guy in the bomb video, uranium's half life is only 2000 years! Which probably is some quick calculation of 1/3rd the age of the Universe... i.e. 6000 years :D And said 4.5B is about 1/3rd the age of the Universe he must be right!

And its on the internet so it must be true! Also I am a french model.

Trump doesn't have his finger on any reset button because no one - certainly not military commanders - would carry out any order he shouted other than a cheeseburger.

Clearly you dont understand how the military works. Also I would probably keep politics out of it before you raise Kyles ire....
 

WorldExclusive

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Leaked Pentagon documents provide detail on “Kanyon,” a Russian undersea autonomous torpedo that is being described as “nightmare fuel”: the payload is a 100-megaton thermonuclear weapon, equivalent to 100,000,000 tons of TNT. It is supposedly capable of penetrating ballistic missile defenses.

Kanyon is designed to attack coastal areas, destroying cities, naval bases, and ports. The mega-bomb would also generate an artificial tsunami that would surge inland, spreading radioactive contamination with the advancing water. To make matters worse there are reports the warhead is “salted” with the radioactive isotope Cobalt-60. Contaminated areas would be off-limits to humanity for up to 100 years.

Describes what is on the 100 Dollar Bill.
 

motomonkey

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Trump doesn't have his finger on any reset button because no one - certainly not military commanders - would carry out any order he shouted other than a cheeseburger.

Care to bet your life on that? I spent enough time in the Military, and that's not how it works.
 
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