Doom Eternal

J3RK

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Yeah, the music in 2016 was much better with quite a few memorable tracks.

I think the music in Eternal is pretty good. Occasionally gets a sort of hybrid “Meshuggah/Electronic” sorta thing going on.

Deleted the rest of my post, as it was based on memory, and I just read an article indicating there was more to do with the Eternal soundtrack “thing” than I originally thought. :D
 
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Blackstone

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So I think I reached the final boss of Old Gods Part I. Something went wrong because you need to kill the spirits feeding the boss power, but they wouldn’t die. So i battled wave after wave for like 40 minutes of non stop rip and tear, flaming them nading them punching them shooting then missling them lasering them beaming then detonating them, impaling them, sniping them, BFGing them, shotgunning them sticky bombing them, heat blasting them, and it got so bad i even used the chaingun which gets me killed every time. Finally i nearly had a 120fps stroke it was all so intense, i think at one point i stopped breathing for 2 minutes because Doom Guy was so low on health and I am too old for this shit like Danny Glover, just tearing through buffed monster after demon. Finally just quit and watched it on video.

I have maxed out all weapons and am pretty competent spinning around and tearing through them but that was the most intense gunplay in any game I have ever played. I’m not saying it was a great boss battle because it isn’t, but with the 3090, RTX and DLSS hurling this madness into my eyes it was kinda hard to to back to the “oh i’ll hide in this bush and…dead” gameplay of BFV.

There is so much suck in the platforming and some of the design but when Old Gods I is good it is really good. The encounter with the army of pinkies was awesome too.

I am not sure why the game looks so washed out though. Wondering it my settings are borked but the game has kind of a washed out look. Brain melted on to Old Gods II.
 

cybereality

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If you have an HDR monitor, you probably need to adjust the HDR settings in Doom for it to look okay.

I tried a bunch, and got it looking alright, but it was still a little washed out it never looked perfect.
 

Lateralus

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Are you guys playing the game on LCD displays? If so, IPS or VA? I played Eternal on my OLED and it was anything but washed out…but of course that applies to everything displayed on it. :D VA should be pretty good, though…
 

cybereality

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I'm playing on an IPS panel. It looks amazing and the colors are very vibrant with HDR off.

Not sure if it's a issue with my display, but the HDR mode looks a little muted/washed out. It does look "more realistic" so I think it's working, it just doesn't pop like the SDR mode does.

My monitor is only HDR400, and it's been a real hit or miss with HDR games.
 

Armenius

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If you have an HDR monitor, you probably need to adjust the HDR settings in Doom for it to look okay.

I tried a bunch, and got it looking alright, but it was still a little washed out it never looked perfect.
Are you guys playing the game on LCD displays? If so, IPS or VA? I played Eternal on my OLED and it was anything but washed out…but of course that applies to everything displayed on it. :D VA should be pretty good, though…
I posted the HDR settings I settled on way back in the thread when the game first came out, and they work on both my OLED and IPS displays. It would really help if they put in a proper calibration setup in this game, though. The default settings indeed are quite washed out on the OLED when compared to the IPS.
That hotfix patch fixed the issues I was having with the game. No more half FPS with V-Sync or intermittent crashes.

After trying to fine tune everything on my PG27UQ I just ended up with max-min settings and it actually looks pretty good, in my opinion. I tweaked the stops a little from the edges.

Brightness: 16.0
Saturation: 0.9
Min Stops: -8.0
White Point: 1.0
Max Stops: 8.0
I'm playing on an IPS panel. It looks amazing and the colors are very vibrant with HDR off.

Not sure if it's a issue with my display, but the HDR mode looks a little muted/washed out. It does look "more realistic" so I think it's working, it just doesn't pop like the SDR mode does.

My monitor is only HDR400, and it's been a real hit or miss with HDR games.
HDR400 tricks your eyes into thinking that bright spots are overwhelming other parts of the image by decreasing the contrast of the screen and dimming the backlight. This results in crushed colors in my experience with such an implementation. The above settings might improve it, but there is only so much you can do with a display that doesn't have FALD or per-pixel dimming.
 

Lateralus

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I posted the HDR settings I settled on way back in the thread when the game first came out, and they work on both my OLED and IPS displays. It would really help if they put in a proper calibration setup in this game, though. The default settings indeed are quite washed out on the OLED when compared to the IPS.


HDR400 tricks your eyes into thinking that bright spots are overwhelming other parts of the image by decreasing the contrast of the screen and dimming the backlight. This results in crushed colors in my experience with such an implementation. The above settings might improve it, but there is only so much you can do with a display that doesn't have FALD or per-pixel dimming.
Ah, maybe that's why it looked good to me - I'm pretty sure that this is one of the HDR capable games where I actually took some time to tweak the settings.

For as good as HDR can look, I'm a little disappointed with it from an ease of use standpoint. I wish that you could just enable it and have it work uniformly and already optimized (and then fine tune from there if needed). I get that there are different "levels" of HDR but would it be too hard for game devs to implement presets for the different HDR standards and you could select the one that your particular display supported and have it apply the appropriate optimized presets? As it is now, we have games where enabling HDR can throw the visuals way out of whack and you have to spend time adjusting sliders or researching the settings that other people have found to look best. I just want an on/off button without having to calibrate every game to my particular display, lol.
 

Armenius

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Ah, maybe that's why it looked good to me - I'm pretty sure that this is one of the HDR capable games where I actually took some time to tweak the settings.

For as good as HDR can look, I'm a little disappointed with it from an ease of use standpoint. I wish that you could just enable it and have it work uniformly and already optimized (and then fine tune from there if needed). I get that there are different "levels" of HDR but would it be too hard for game devs to implement presets for the different HDR standards and you could select the one that your particular display supported and have it apply the appropriate optimized presets? As it is now, we have games where enabling HDR can throw the visuals way out of whack and you have to spend time adjusting sliders or researching the settings that other people have found to look best. I just want an on/off button without having to calibrate every game to my particular display, lol.
I generally feel the same way, though if you look at SDR brightness you still need to (or at least should) set up your brightness correctly inside of every game. The issue is that every display is different. With the consoles, though, my experience has been that once you go through the calibration tool that I usually don't need to do any tweaking in individual games. There are still some games that completely ignore the system and choose some seemingly random or otherwise out-of-whack defaults that need to be dealt with. I've read that the new auto HDR feature coming in Windows should at least bring something similar to PC, so hopefully the experience improves once that is released.
 

cybereality

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That's a good point. On PS4 Pro, HDR worked fine out of box. It's just PC that is the wild west.
 
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That's a good point. On PS4 Pro, HDR worked fine out of box. It's just PC that is the wild west.

It's not just the PC being the PC as always it's also displays here. Most console gamers are not gaming on monitors, they are using TVs. When it comes to displays the TV market is much more coherent than the monitor market. Even the console "monitor" market is vastly more streamlined than the PC market.

4k HDR on PC is just a hot mess.
 

cybereality

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Yeah, I'm talking about TVs. Of the HDR games I tried on the PS4, there was minimal setup. Maybe just the white point, but overall it "just worked" without a lot of config.

Even the same games, for example Far Cry 5 worked out of box on PS4 and a Samsung TV but looked strange on a PC monitor. It is strange they can't figure this out, I thought that was the point of having a VESA standard.
 
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Yeah, I'm talking about TVs. Of the HDR games I tried on the PS4, there was minimal setup. Maybe just the white point, but overall it "just worked" without a lot of config.

Even the same games, for example Far Cry 5 worked out of box on PS4 and a Samsung TV but looked strange on a PC monitor. It is strange they can't figure this out, I thought that was the point of having a VESA standard.

Half the reason people here are all "pc gaming master race" is the flagrant ability to violate standards and customize stuff. The thing is it's not just done on the customer end, that same sort of rampant ignoring of standards happens on the manufacturing side as well. Case in point stick of RAM that isn't JDEC or any video card that's OC'd. Lots of PC gaming monitor aren't really following standards but that won't stop them from slapping the logo on a box. Even outside of the issues with Windows and the games themselves (along with drivers) there's a whole "eh, it may work" deal going on.

That's not the case with stuff like consumers electronics and TVs where it's all meeting the various standards. It does "just work". FWIW if you go into professional grade monitors and software on a PC (ie workstation class stuff) that does "just work" as well.
 

T4rd

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Wanted to bump the thread since I just beat this for the first time.

I replayed through Doom 2016 earlier this year so I could compare them somewhat close together.

I wasn't too sure on Eternal for the first few levels as it eases you into all the strats and mechanics of the game, and getting used to the ammo conservation and farming via chainsaw usage. But half way or so into the game I was really digging it and enjoyed it pretty thoroughly. I played the game on Ultra Violence difficulty to start out and didn't die very much. I loved Doom 2016, so I was worried they messed with the formula too much after reading all the complaints on here about it. But I think Eternal is just as good still, if not better with all the extra verticality and traversal mechanics added to the gameplay now. They didn't overdo it too much with the platforming at all either, and it was mostly just a mechanic to allow them to make the levels much bigger and more diverse while you're traversing them. It was also necessary to allow you to out-maneuver the barrage of enemies in the smaller arenas by giving you all the bars hanging out everywhere to let you leap across the arenas while you're scavenging for ammo/health/armor and trying to decide what weapon(s) to use in the current ballet of death you have going on.

I guess I can see why a lot of people criticized it so hard, but IMO I'm guessing most didn't really give it a fair shake just because you can't mindlessly unload your favorite weapon at the enemies constantly like you could in Doom 2016. This game forces you to have just a little more strategy and skill to your game, and I think it's better for it and appreciate their effort in doing some fresh with the series, while keeping around most of what made Doom 2016 great as well.

The only minor criticism I'd give it really is that the music wasn't quite as memorable or enjoyable as it was in Doom 2016. It was good still at least and never sounded out of place or anything, but I guess just didn't have any clear melodies or riffs that I can still recall from Doom 2016, other than some of the tracks that were just re-used and slightly remixed from the predecessor. Also, I wish there was narration of the logs you find throughout the game to feed you the story like there was in 2016 with that deep demonic voice that read to you there. In a game like Doom, it's hard to break for several minutes at a time just to read a long story log ever few mins and if I'm going to break at all, I'd like some narration to listen to at least. I'd still give it a 9/10 though.

On the technical side, it ran great for the most part between 80-120 FPS usually on my 2080 with RT and Quality DLSS enabled (which with no AA options, DLSS definitely looks better than native in this game anyways) at 3440x1440. Though sometimes when I would boot the game, performance would be horrible at like 20-30 FPS and after looking in the Steam discussion forum for the game, this is a common issue that is fixed by toggling the graphics to Low for a few seconds (you'll see performance jump to your FPS cap or V-sync limit), then I toggled back to Ultra Nightmare for everything besides Texture Pool (Ultra) to keep VRAM usage under 8GB for my card. Otherwise, the game ran perfect for the most part and I can't wait to see what iD and Bethesda do next with this engine.
 
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MavericK

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I'm guessing most didn't really give it a fair shake just because you can't mindlessly unload your favorite weapon at the enemies constantly like you could in Doom 2016.
while keeping around most of what made Doom 2016 great as well.

More mindlessly unloading your favorite weapon at the enemies is what people wanted from Doom, that is why it was criticized. Sure, you can still like it, but it's a different game and a lot of people just wanted more Doom 2016.
 

T4rd

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More mindlessly unloading your favorite weapon at the enemies is what people wanted from Doom, that is why it was criticized. Sure, you can still like it, but it's a different game and a lot of people just wanted more Doom 2016.

Fair enough, but you can still actually do that with the in-game cheats that you find and unlock while playing the game normally, or just modding the game for infinite/more ammo capacity as well to play it like 2016.
 

cybereality

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I guess I can see why a lot of people criticized it so hard, but IMO I'm guessing most didn't really give it a fair shake just because you can't mindlessly unload your favorite weapon at the enemies constantly like you could in Doom 2016.
This is exactly the issue. On Doom 2016 you could use the shotgun for 100% of the game and there wasn't even a challenge until the last level.

I'd much rather they try to innovate the series and try something new, rather than just release a rehash of the same game. Doom Eternal is the best FPS of all time, and the new strategy component is why it is so action packed.
 

Armenius

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That's cause the original composer Mick Gordon wasn't able to finish mixing the music and id fired him.

https://screenrant.com/doom-eternal-devs-composer-mick-gordon-controversy/
This controversy just had to do with the OST release, though. Mick completed the soundtrack that we hear in the game, but the standalone OST is what was not finished. For the 2016 release Mick remixed all the tracks so they made sense on an album release, with a defined start, middle and end. He was taking too long doing this for Eternal's OST, which is where the conflict arose. It didn't help that many people online kept pestering id about the release of the OST since it was promised with certain preorder packages.

I think the issue of why the game soundtrack seemed less memorable this time around was because the soundtrack was much more dynamic. Getting into a fight didn't lead up to the same iconic BFG Division riff that 2016 had, so it doesn't stick out in most people's minds. In my opinion the soundtrack for Eternal melded with the gameplay much more organically than 2016 did.
 

cybereality

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Alright, good to know. I agree the music in 2016 was overall better, but Eternal was still pretty good.
 

Zorachus

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I have both Doom 2016 and Eternal installed, and I do find 2016 to me a much faster non stop adrenaline rush type of game. Whereas Eternal with the silly wall climbing and gymnastics is sort of weird, like Super Mario Doom LOL Really not my cup of tea, kills the flow and fast pace of the game, and all these crazy moves you need to make are more frustrating than fun.

Performance wise, both games run smooth as butter @ 3400 X 1400res, Ultra maxed settings.
 

Colonel Sanders

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i didn't know about the Mick Gordon issues... that sucks, and definitely explains why the Doom Eternal soundtrack just didn't hit me as hard as 2016's (save for a few bangers I heard here and there.)
 

Armenius

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It's such a shame when you see videos like this and imagine what a properly mixed OST could have been. Combine with how he talks about coming up with the 2016 soundtrack and you learn his passion for music, you really understand how much mastery he has in composition and arrangement. Getting music to stand out and be a crucial part of a video game is a tough endeavor, and Mick is definitely one of the greats.



The BFG Division is iconic at this point, but I feel you really don't feel his mastery come through since the song is on the simpler side. Rust, Dust & Guts is a good example of that mastery, as it is such a seemingly senseless mishmash of different sounds and yet he is somehow able to make it work spectacularly.



Then he can dial it back and really turn up the depth to 11 with a simple interpretation of a classic song. It truly capture a feeling of dark hopelessness and kind of makes me want to crawl up into a fetal position when I hear it.



And it is still humbling to see his true geekiness come through as he plays a medley of the songs live trying to get the crowd hyped up. That cool guy façade melts away as he really gets into it. Bonus Matt Halpern from Periphery nearly killing an inattentive audience member with his drum stick at the end :ROFLMAO:



 

Armenius

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Original Doom artist Gregor Punchatz posted his take on what the Archvile in the new Doom games. He created the original models used for the enemy sprites of the Archvile, Mancubus, Revenant, and Spider Mastermind for Doom and Doom II.

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