dont make spyware illegal! thats how i make money!!

rdrag0n

n00b
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
15
im a computer tech in a tiny town. i work out of my truck at peoples offices and homes. i only charge $20 an hour (minimum of 1 hour) for my services. 80% of what i do, is spend 5 minutes installing adaware, and spybot and cleanin up the remaining spyware from the registry.

that 5 minutes makes me $20 (which is a lot for a poor wanker like myself). pretty much i make money because other people are ignorant. i still make it a point to educate them, but there are a bazillion more people in this town i havent educated yet.

point is, spyware is a stupid people tax. they shouldnt make it illegal because its a super easy way for me to make money (besides propogating sasser or blaster or wahtever.... not that i have or would do that....).

id imagine if you read at hardocp then your smart enough to not be snared by spyware, so my corrupt evil ways wont harm you. so anyone agree with me? dissent? neutral? bush? kerry? maddox?
 

lomn75

Purple Ace
Joined
Jun 26, 2000
Messages
6,613
By the same token, theft and burglary should be legal, as that gives the insurance companies reason to jack their rates higher.

You're welcome to infer my opinion on this.
 

Oldie

Mean Old Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
21,889
Pretty much anyone really actually running a legit repair shop will tell you that this is a decent chunk of their business though. Personally, I've worked on PC's for a living recently and I always made sure to show people the tools and educate them about ways to avoid problems. Still, some people chose to treat it like an oil change for their car, and came in every 3000 clicks (I just made that up :eek: ). I think as long as you're educating as well as ridding them of the problem, there's not really an ethical dilema. There are those who will learn and grow, and there are those who would just rather have someone else take care of it for whatever reason. Just an FYI though, if someone offered to fix ANYTHING on my computer for $20, I'd pretty much know they're a hack. I AM NOT implying that you are, and if you really do know what you're doing, great.

Spyware should be illeagle because it's just freakin wrong. Cops make money off of others misdeeds, but you don't see them out encouraging riots for the overtime.
 

cgrant26

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
3,416
Ignorant people will do just fine screwing up their computers without the help of spyware/malware/adware. This shit needs to be eliminated from the planet and the people that create it need to have their genitalia fed to them through a straw running through their broken, wired-shut, jaws. (and break all their fingers while were at it)
 

puck

Gawd
Joined
Apr 13, 2004
Messages
607
I'm so damn tired of spyware. 90% of teh computers I fix are spyware/virus infections. Wintools is definatly one of the worst also. Changes the logon program so when you remove the spyware you can't log back on.
 

Xipher

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
2,621
Just because its illegal, doesnt mean stupid people still won't find it
 

lomn75

Purple Ace
Joined
Jun 26, 2000
Messages
6,613
Oh, I agree with all of the above that it's here to stay, that people will remain dumb, etc, etc. I just don't think that's a valid reason to declare it legal. Most of my reservations derive from the implications of unauthorized data collection software being specifically legal (which is what it would be if the current spyware legislation is junked). Color me paranoid, but I think that's a lousy situation for everyone.
 

bigstusexy

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 28, 2002
Messages
3,157
Hmmm I wonder Mr. (or Ms/Mrs) Poster... Do you have a license to use those programs? You know most porgrams are free for personal use but you aren't using it in a personal way!


See anyone can argue a negative side issue, while deep down inside I do believe that you should apy for using their software as a tool to make money I don't care who profits off spyware I just want it stopped. I admit the only reason I'm not begging for change is the little techwork I do and a lot is cleaning spyware but I couldn't care less if it was gone I'd much rather tackle harder issues.
 

inimino

n00b
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Messages
40
Spyware is legal because people choose to install it.

Making it illegal is both stupid and ineffective. However, we can make it obsolete.
 

iceslice

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 8, 2001
Messages
398
The ignorance isn't in the fact that they install/browse bad websites and don't know how to fix the problem, its that they have faith in FLAWED operating systems. Personally, i don't think it should be illegal, but Microsoft should have a priority to clean up their software.
 

IceWindus

n00b
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
10
Im so fucking of cleaning up / rebuilding machines from Spyware I justa wanna quit the industry im sick of hearing and dealing with it.
 

cgrant26

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
3,416
The problem with windows isn't so much that it's full of holes (which of course it is) it's more that since the vast majority use it, it's what is targeted by malware writers. I guarantee that if Linux was the #1 OS in the world, it would have way more problems than it does. When it comes to writing scumware to make money, it's only logical to target the masses.
 

Boscoh

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 25, 2003
Messages
1,159
Even if spyware is illegal...so what. CAN-SPAM didn't do a damn thing, what makes you think that making spyware illegal will? Hacking is, for the most part, illegal...people still do it. It's not gonna change anything, you'll still be able to rip people off, so I wouldn't worry too much.
 

rdrag0n

n00b
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
15
bigstusexy said:
Hmmm I wonder Mr. (or Ms/Mrs) Poster... Do you have a license to use those programs? You know most porgrams are free for personal use but you aren't using it in a personal way!

well those programs are freeware, and im just dl them for the customers personal use. theyre just too stupid to find the program themselves. i used to remove spyware by hand, but its gotten so ridiculous that that actually takes me an hour to do. why reinvent the wheel? its freeware anyways.

as for charging $20 an hour, thats because i live in deep south texas where everyone is mexican. consequently, no one has any money (working for a dollar a day ya know). they all use pentium 1s or 2s. in fact i try to build them new pcs and i only tack on like $75 labor, so the prices are around $400 or so brand new. (excluding monitor of course) these are like amd 1800, with a cheap pcchips motherboard kinda things. nothing awesome, but still stable and strong. im just a nice guy. hahaha.. no really......

spam is illegal now, but difficult to track and prosecute. spyware on the other hand is so notoriously bad because it eats bandwidth by contacting its host server, which makes it relatively easy to track. i think the tricky part of banning spyware is gonna be specifyin what constitues 'spyware.'
 

maxedoutcc

Gawd
Joined
Jan 26, 2001
Messages
1,001
iceslice said:
The ignorance isn't in the fact that they install/browse bad websites and don't know how to fix the problem, its that they have faith in FLAWED operating systems. Personally, i don't think it should be illegal, but Microsoft should have a priority to clean up their software.


great another one of those threads tahts gonna turn into "microsoft sucks and you should use linux because....."
:rolleyes:
 

rdrag0n

n00b
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
15
i did the research on spybot and adaware liscense. heres the distribution section of spybots liscense...

"III. Distribution
Here are some basic rules about distributing Spybot-S&D.

III.a. Private distribution
You may give away single copies of the software as long as you don't modify this license or other files of the archive.

III.b. Mirroring
If you want to mirror Spybot-S&D, feel free to do so as long as you don't modify the original archive. If you want to be kept up to date about major updates, you can subscribe to the mailing list.
Official mirrors need to fulfill the Mirror Policy.

III.c. Publishing
You may publish Spybot-S&D in a book or magazine (or other media) by simply sending a written request for permission, including a description of your specific needs. I request a copy of the media in which SpyBot-S&D is published as compensation."


its very small as you can see and not to specific about using it as a techs tool. since i install it and leave it installed, and its not modified in anyway, im not violating this liscense.



heres the liscenesseeas section for adaware se personal (the freeware one):

1. License Grant. This License permits you to use one copy of the Software solely for your internal operations on a single computer. The enclosed documentation ("Documentation") may not be copied. You agree that you will not sublicense, assign, transfer, distribute, pledge, lease, rent or share your rights under this License except with prior written permission from Nicolas Stark Computing AB. You agree that you will not modify, adapt or translate, or disassemble, decompile, reverse engineer or otherwise attempt to discover the source code of the Software.


ok the fist line says it all. i can only use one copy on a single machine. then it says you may not "sublicense, assign, transfer, distribute, pledge, lease, rent or share your rights" i guess i 'share my rights' when i install it on another computer, or perhaps distribute. its not like im burning it to cds and selling it or giving it away.so i guess i have to make sure to download a new copy from their website, and install that one, which will make it legit. or jsut stop using adaware. spybots better anyways.

ok thats about it.
 

QwertyJuan

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Aug 17, 2000
Messages
11,286
doing the same thing here...

Just 3 computers in the last week, and have made $70 doing it....

QJ
 

bigstusexy

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 28, 2002
Messages
3,157
You are tottally missing the point(s)

1. I don't care what you do, but there is always a way to put a bad slant on anything.

2. Just because its illegal dosn't mean its going to stop! ;)
 

WillowHawk

Gawd
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
590
you know, alot of the time, spyware is put on the computer because the idiot behind the mouse doesnt stop to read the eula or read the little window that pops up in IE... they just click yes or no, just so they can get back to reading MSN's articles on love and celebreties...they are idiots that dont care to learn how their computer works. now, pple like the thread starter makes money off of those idiots. thats awesome. theres nothing more gratifying that fucking a total idiot over because hes too ignorant and stupid to hold onto his money..some pple, including me, thinks that hes irrisponsible with that money, and that i should keep it for him.

spyware should be illegal because some of it gets on your computer without clicking on anything. the smarter pple hate those kind of spyware and associate them with viruses, which IMO, is the same thing. i didnt ask for it, dont force it on me. spyware programmers and owners just get the money from the advertizing agencies, i doubt that they use it themselves as NOBODY likes ads. for some curious reason they seem to work which is why pple pay mega bucks to advertize something
some how that seems ..bad for american public. propaganda isnt the way to go
 

inimino

n00b
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Messages
40
WillowHawk said:
you know, alot of the time, spyware is put on the computer because the idiot behind the mouse doesnt stop to read the eula or read the little window that pops up in IE... they just click yes or no, just so they can get back to reading MSN's articles on love and celebreties...they are idiots that dont care to learn how their computer works. now, pple like the thread starter makes money off of those idiots. thats awesome. theres nothing more gratifying that fucking a total idiot over because hes too ignorant and stupid to hold onto his money..some pple, including me, thinks that hes irrisponsible with that money, and that i should keep it for him.
What an attitude!

First, it's not the fault of the user that they are using insecure software. These sorts of things *shouldn't be possible* whether by clicking a button or not. Not understanding technical details doesn't make someone an idiot, it just means they have better things to do with their life.

Second, if you want to be taken seriously, grow up, learn how to spell, and use proper grammar.
 

rdrag0n

n00b
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
15
both of you guys are right. spyware shouldnt be snuck into the end of a eula. im the kinda guy that clicks yes, next next next yes. and i dont get spyware.

peoples ignorance is the main problem. they arent stupid, theyre just ignorant. just like owning a car though, you gotta know wahts goin on so you can help yourself when you get stranded. i make money doing simple 5 minute jobs, just like a mechanic would make changing a fuse or something equally as simple.

people just dont get how important computers are, and how theyre gonna be just as necesarry(sp) as cars.

the governement needs to make it so you have to have a liscense to use a computer


ps - buying crack and hos with my money isnt irresponsible!!!

pps- and i hate the new aol commercials!! theyre like "hi im a customer of aol, and i have some ideas to make the internet better." make the internet better?! the internet!?!?!? unless theyre ideas involve implementation of ipv6 i dont think the internet is gonna get any better. morons. to state it more accuratley: ideas to make AOLS CRAPPY SERVICE better... ok im done.
 

MikeF98765

Gawd
Joined
Sep 26, 2003
Messages
629
inimino said:
First, it's not the fault of the user that they are using insecure software. These sorts of things *shouldn't be possible* whether by clicking a button or not. Not understanding technical details doesn't make someone an idiot, it just means they have better things to do with their life.
how exactly is it "insecure"? If a window pops up and says "do you want to install weatherbug?" and they click yes or no, thats pretty secure. If they click no, it doesn't get installed. Them clicking yes isn't "insecurity" its just them being ignorant. I know there are some security flaws, but 99% of spyware isn't that. Please let me know where the insecurities lie.
 

iceslice

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 8, 2001
Messages
398
maxedoutcc said:
great another one of those threads tahts gonna turn into "microsoft sucks and you should use linux because....."
:rolleyes:

Not at all. My point is not that "everyone should switch to linux becuase..." but to simply state what i feel the standard for security/dealing with spyware should beand that Microsoft can do better. Billion doller corperation vs a large group of intelligent users.. One thing another poster mentioned was the potential problems linux based systems would have if it were the #1 operating system. While i definatly agree that it would have a LOT more problems, i feel the linux community would do a better job cleaning up problems then the billion doller corperation that is microsoft.
 

inimino

n00b
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Messages
40
MikeF98765 said:
how exactly is it "insecure"? If a window pops up and says "do you want to install weatherbug?"
You just answered your own question. Why should such a window ever pop up?

Hint: why doesn't Mac or Linux have this spyware problem? Is it just because Mac and Linux users are smarter, or is there something else?
 

rdrag0n

n00b
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
15
its because spyware developers arent gonna spend the time and r&d to develop spyware for machines that make up like 5% (im guess that its less than that) of the home computing industry.

also linux users will most likely be more informed.

mac users are broke from buyin enormously expensive hardware tahts just as faulty as windows, so spyware guys arent even gonna bother....





that was sarcasm... just before you start flaming... ya know .. hahah!


but seriously, a window asking you to install weatherbug is hardly a security flaw. its an advertisement. when you goto a web pages theres ads on it. thats just how capitalism works. im not saying windows isnt one huge security hole, but i am saying, that to install weatherbug, someone has to click 'ok'.
 

inimino

n00b
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Messages
40
rdrag0n said:
im not saying windows isnt one huge security hole, but i am saying, that to install weatherbug, someone has to click 'ok'.
And what I'm saying, is that to allow people to install untrusted software from a Web site by clicking an OK button is ***BRAINDAMAGED***
 

rdrag0n

n00b
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
15
so microsoft has to become teh software police too? they have to make sure that every piece of software that is installed on their os is safe? am i misunderstanding your point? do i ask too many questions? waga?
 

inimino

n00b
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Messages
40
No, I'm saying that the solution to spyware is to make it more difficult for people to install software without understanding the consequences. People install this stuff without understanding it. Of course that's their fault. But that's not going to change.

So make software installation something that makes you aware of what you may do to your system.
 

rdrag0n

n00b
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
15
thats the best idea besides makin spyware illegal alltoghetr. i could imagine in bright red letters it says

"though this software has a cute bug logo and it shows the temperature outside since you cant get your lazy butt up and check yourself, it also takes up all your bandwidth and processes by sending reports of where you go online and what youre doing, and by downloading and displaying popups."

people would still click ok.... andthen complain about the popups and how their 'spyware co' brand free popup blocker doesnt work.


ps - typos are the result of lazinesss
 

WillowHawk

Gawd
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
590
inimino said:
What an attitude!

First, it's not the fault of the user that they are using insecure software. These sorts of things *shouldn't be possible* whether by clicking a button or not. Not understanding technical details doesn't make someone an idiot, it just means they have better things to do with their life.

Second, if you want to be taken seriously, grow up, learn how to spell, and use proper grammar.

lol, it is the users fault that they are using insecure software. unless they bought the computer form someone else who hasnt taken the time to learn about stuff like this. not wanting to learn about "technical details" and then complaining when their ignorance comes and bite them in the ass is the hightlight of stupidity... the didnt know about it? thats no excuse. which is why i take their money. and about pple taking me seriously? DO I GIVE A FUCK?!?! the answer is no. the forum is here for me to post my opinion and ask for questions. its the internet. not a college research paper... so screw spelling and grammar.. a typo is a typo, sentence structure is secondary on something as informal as a forum, as long as everyone understands what i'm saying.. you fathom? not trying to make enemies on here, i'm just sick and tired of pple getting off on flaming others for something that isnt really important. and i wonder how many other times u have done this to other pple? please dude, sentence structure and spelling is not that important on an informal forum :rolleyes:

(btw, i'm 16, so i still have time to grow up. at least i graduated so i can "grow up" around the big college guys)
 

ComputerBox34

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Nov 12, 2003
Messages
12,972
rdrag0n said:
im a computer tech in a tiny town. i work out of my truck at peoples offices and homes. i only charge $20 an hour (minimum of 1 hour) for my services. 80% of what i do, is spend 5 minutes installing adaware, and spybot and cleanin up the remaining spyware from the registry.

that 5 minutes makes me $20 (which is a lot for a poor wanker like myself). pretty much i make money because other people are ignorant. i still make it a point to educate them, but there are a bazillion more people in this town i havent educated yet.

point is, spyware is a stupid people tax. they shouldnt make it illegal because its a super easy way for me to make money (besides propogating sasser or blaster or wahtever.... not that i have or would do that....).

id imagine if you read at hardocp then your smart enough to not be snared by spyware, so my corrupt evil ways wont harm you. so anyone agree with me? dissent? neutral? bush? kerry? maddox?

You're actually expecting people to follow this law if it's passed? What if the spyware was located in a server in the UK? Even if they made Spyware illegal, I would never take away my protection. People don't follow all the laws, explain this to your customers.
 

lomn75

Purple Ace
Joined
Jun 26, 2000
Messages
6,613
inimino said:
No, I'm saying that the solution to spyware is to make it more difficult for people to install software without understanding the consequences. People install this stuff without understanding it. Of course that's their fault. But that's not going to change.

So make software installation something that makes you aware of what you may do to your system.
rdragon is dead-on with his above response. People don't understand what makes software work / install / whatever as it is -- more click-throughs won't fix a thing. Adding more steps will unnecessarily frustrate people until they again memorize "Yes" - "OK" - "Next" - "Default" - and so on. Your solution is hopelessly naive, as are your statements about OS security.
 

inimino

n00b
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Messages
40
lomn75 said:
rdragon is dead-on with his above response. People don't understand what makes software work / install / whatever as it is -- more click-throughs won't fix a thing. Adding more steps will unnecessarily frustrate people until they again memorize "Yes" - "OK" - "Next" - "Default" - and so on. Your solution is hopelessly naive, as are your statements about OS security.
I make my living working with network security, so I'm not what you would call naive.

I also didn't recommend "more click-throughs." Why don't you re-read what I wrote and if you understand it maybe we can then have a reasonable conversation about it.
 

aphex187

Gawd
Joined
Jun 24, 2001
Messages
566
I'd say about 20% of the work I do at the office is removing spyware/adware from our agents PCs. Many have wanted me to go to their house and clean up their home PCs. I've found I can round up more 'out-of-the-office' business by giving these people cheatsheets of the software to install, and how to use it and then they come back to me later thanking me and giving me a bigger job to do, or in some cases, handing me a small payment for the simple fact that I saved them their own time and money.

Charging people to remove this stuff is going to happen - and its really not that wrong. Someone could sit down and do some research and install spybot/adaware/spywareblaster themselves, but they are paying you guys for the convenience and time they save not doing it themselves. I'd hardly say its akin to insurance companies raising their rates and promoting burglary and robbery to benefit - the 'consultants' removing this software didn't install it in the first place (at least I should hope not!)
 

Ion Silverbolt

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
339
rdrag0n said:
so microsoft has to become teh software police too? they have to make sure that every piece of software that is installed on their os is safe? am i misunderstanding your point? do i ask too many questions? waga?


I think MS has some responsibility in the matter. I mean hell, they give the default user administrative rights. It only takes one mistake. To make things worse, a lot of programs will not even install without administrative rights. A policy no one even takes into consideration when they write software for windows.

Then there's the fact that the browser is integrated with the operating system. Microsoft pretty much handed the keys to the city to spyware makers. I mean damn, they could have at least made activeX only work for Windows Update and a few other trusted sites only by default.

As for Linux, it wouldn't suffer the same problems if the market share was reversed. Mainly because it was created from a sound security model to begin with. The most a user could do would be to totally trash his home folder. All operating sysem files and folders would be totally unaffected because the user would not have Root access.

I'm not trying to sound like a Linux zealot here, but MS needs to have a similiar security model because most people are just too illiterate to stay out of trouble. Hell this one guy at work I recommended Firefox to and installed it for was complaining that he had to type www in before a web address to be able to goto the page he wanted. I told him to just bookmark his favorite links. He didn't even know what in the hell a bookmark was.

This is the menality of most people using PC's out there now. And MS lets them run down the damn hallway with scissors in their hands. To make it worse, those damn worms on their PC's are choking our Internet bandwidth.
 
Top