Dont know how it would work. But how bout some liquid metal blocks?

Visable-assassin

Visable-assassin

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just something I stumbled upon today. I dont know what its thermal rateings are...but its corrosion resistance is better than copper and..hell even titanium.

Liquid Metal
 
First time I've seen amorphous metals being offered as a commercial product. Last I heard, they were laboratory curiosities.

I'm not so sure about using them for heat transfer properties. IIRC, grain structure / grain boundaries have an important role in both electrical and thermal conductivity. Amorphous metals have no grain structure...they're like metallic glass. (Can anyone confirm this?)

But it will be interesting to keep an eye out for this stuff in the coming years.
 
I don't know if it proves anything one way or the other, but, I've played around with solder before (darn it, we all do that kind of stuff, quit with the weird looks.) I'd glob up a bunch of it and it would remain liquid for a surprisingly long time considering that you'd think with so much of it at least the outside would harden very quickly as it would have to hold a lot of heat. Ok, no active cooling or anything like that, and solder is, I think, more tin and stuff like that than even aluminum, but, still, it remained surprisingly hot (enough to burn a very painful scar) for a long time even after it hardened. This is working at considerably lower temperatures and with a different metal, but it might still be indicative of a few things related to that.
 
I dont know how they will do in thermal situations.
But they have been used for knife blades...and supposedly it works fairly...well yeah i know two different applications :p
 
Knife blades? I can imagine that a "glassy" metal would be absolute bliss for fans of sharpness, but wouldn't that be softer than even aluminum? Such a blade would have to be sharpened if you cut anything heavier than paper d-: No?
 
They havent used the stuff in folrders since most new folders are liner locks...and the ball bearing detent actually doesnt hold long...the metal ends up denting in farther and the knife wont stay closed...however on fixed bladed knives its supposed to work very well....dunno tho...i dont have access to any lol


Originally posted by Nazo
Knife blades? I can imagine that a "glassy" metal would be absolute bliss for fans of sharpness, but wouldn't that be softer than even aluminum? Such a blade would have to be sharpened if you cut anything heavier than paper d-: No?
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OK damnit, now I'm going to have nightmares about a T-1000 rising up out of my computer.........

:D
 
They have been using "liquid" metal from this company in golf clubs for years and years. There are a whole line of putters and irons and even woods made entirely out of this stuff. Supposedly they deform controllably, and are fairly elastic as far as "metals" go, which is why they put them in very VERY expensive golfclubs that clam to go farther than any other material out there.

I don't know about the thermal properties of this stuff though, but I don't think it would out perform pure copper.
 
Well, I've been reading over a bit more carefully. I misunderstood a thing or two about how it works. It, in fact, is supposed to be harder than steel while at the same time being more elastic due to it's special properties. I can definitely see the usefulness in things like golf clubs and maybe other similar sports instruments. In fact, it might be a darned good metal for things like cars and air-craft if it's not too heavy. My guess is that they are trying to say that due to it's non-crystaline nature, the molecules are closer together. If so, then it would certainly transfer heat (as well as electricity) much more easily than most metals. Heck, if it's really true, it might well do better than gold (and now I'm labeled a heretic.) Of course, then it would make lead seem like a feather. Curious thing is that they say it's light. So I'm just confused. Oh well.

As most of you probably don't know in this forum (I tend to concentrate more on hardware than on weird obsessions,) I'm one of those people obsessed with blades. I'd have a collection of swords if I had the money. Now I want a sword made of this stuff d-: Just imagine... Harder and sharper than steel while maybe being more flexible in one layer than a Japanese folded blade. I can almost feel the looks that are going over most of your faces as you read this. d-: Don't worry, I keep my insanity to mostly moderate levels. lol
 
Originally posted by Nazo
As most of you probably don't know in this forum (I tend to concentrate more on hardware than on weird obsessions,) I'm one of those people obsessed with blades. I'd have a collection of swords if I had the money. Now I want a sword made of this stuff d-: Just imagine... Harder and sharper than steel while maybe being more flexible in one layer than a Japanese folded blade. I can almost feel the looks that are going over most of your faces as you read this. d-: Don't worry, I keep my insanity to mostly moderate levels. lol
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haha, that would be sweet to have a sword made of this stuff, but of course, if it is really heavy, then it would suck, cause you wouldn't even be able to lift it....
 
Originally posted by kllrnohj
haha, that would be sweet to have a sword made of this stuff, but of course, if it is really heavy, then it would suck, cause you wouldn't even be able to lift it....
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Grow stronger.:D
 
Originally posted by Nazo
I'm one of those people obsessed with blades.
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So am I :D
corsair_civilian1.jpg


Some Spyderco Civilian Loving...sorry that was off topic.
I really would like to know how this stuff may work ina thermal situation
 
Well, the crystaline structure has the advantage of uniformity, which means that this may be less evenly distributed, but, if the molecules truly are closer together then at the same time it would transfer energy much more easily. I guess one really would need more details. Oh well, if someone can find some of this stuff and stick a multimeter on it, then take their favorite gold ring/whatever and test that and let us know the results, it might be entertaining if nothing else. ^_^

BTW, I'm a fan of the blades more in the shape of the katana/wakizashi/tanto, eg curved the other way and much less curve. That blade sure does look mean as it seems like it's meant for tearing... Why does it have that multicolored look though? And I fail to see the relation to the video card and memory ^_^
 
OK damnit, now I'm going to have nightmares about a T-1000 rising up out of my computer.........
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LOL

I tried to find the melting point anyone know?
 
That's precicely what I wondered about.

I figure if they are using it for things like cellphones/etc, then it's definitely a bit above room temperature. Cellphones being the hottest thing you can find on there really (I know it's not much.) Beyond that, you can't really tell. And CPUs are obviously going to be well over room temperature. If it melts at 40C, then obviously it wouldn't do for example. d-:

BTW, considering the size of this thing, you can rest more easily knowing that they would be mini T-1000s ^_^
 
Originally posted by Nazo
Well, the crystaline structure has the advantage of uniformity, which means that this may be less evenly distributed, but, if the molecules truly are closer together then at the same time it would transfer energy much more easily. I guess one really would need more details. Oh well, if someone can find some of this stuff and stick a multimeter on it, then take their favorite gold ring/whatever and test that and let us know the results, it might be entertaining if nothing else. ^_^

BTW, I'm a fan of the blades more in the shape of the katana/wakizashi/tanto, eg curved the other way and much less curve. That blade sure does look mean as it seems like it's meant for tearing... Why does it have that multicolored look though? And I fail to see the relation to the video card and memory ^_^
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the blade is meant for cutting meat (I.E. people) the multicolor look is my dirty ass finger prints :p
I could do a pic of my katana as well
 
Lol, I wouldn't mind, but I'm trying my best to keep from overly steering the subject to not only something non-hardware related, but disturbing to a few people out there.

Anyway, I asked about the multicolor thing because the only time I've seen that before was when I seriously heated some metal and after it cooled it looked sort of like that but more purple or something. Anyway, if finger prints have an effect like that, it makes me wonder if that thing is not stainless steel, in which case things like fingerprints aren't good for it (but then neither is meat of any kind if it's not completly dried out...)

Oh well, in my attempt to get back on track. Has anyone found any information on just exactly what it is about this non-crystaline structure that makes it not only harder, but also lighter? I can understand why it's more elastic though. With the structure like that, it doesn't easily seperate as the molecules will tend to hit other molecules which in turn do the same, preventing it from easily seperating them when you put strain on there.
 
Originally posted by Nazo
Lol, I wouldn't mind, but I'm trying my best to keep from overly steering the subject to not only something non-hardware related, but disturbing to a few people out there.

Anyway, I asked about the multicolor thing because the only time I've seen that before was when I seriously heated some metal and after it cooled it looked sort of like that but more purple or something. Anyway, if finger prints have an effect like that, it makes me wonder if that thing is not stainless steel, in which case things like fingerprints aren't good for it (but then neither is meat of any kind if it's not completly dried out...)

Oh well, in my attempt to get back on track. Has anyone found any information on just exactly what it is about this non-crystaline structure that makes it not only harder, but also lighter? I can understand why it's more elastic though. With the structure like that, it doesn't easily seperate as the molecules will tend to hit other molecules which in turn do the same, preventing it from easily seperating them when you put strain on there.
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No no its like greasy finger prints...blade isnt affected :p
as far as the stuff being lighter and stronger, What I really wanna know is how hard a block of it would be to mill...also with a melting point of 40c...how much would actually melt..the entire block or just the immediate area around the core...if it was just the core...couldnt that sorta act like an "all in one" thermal grease type deal?
 
Well, I think it would basically melt until the thing fell off. It wouldn't completly melt the entire thing because it would fall off first, but it would melt enough until it did. Either way though, the core would end up without proper cooling in the end. However, the part about the grease gives me an idea. If you were to set up a system where the hsf was air tight against the entire CPU (this includes the edges, not just the core) and make the top not use anything that could be damaged by conductive material going across all of it, then, yes, it could be a great conductive material (then again, any liquidified metal such as mercury would work, so the question is a matter of efficiency.) That would technically be a lot better than thermal paste though since it would be all metal I believe. I'm not really sure how you would properly do this though.

BTW, speaking of efficiency of thermal paste, I can't help but wonder why the artic silver people don't make an artic gold. d-:

Anyway, I guess you just can't tell much without more information than those people give on their site.
 
Use mercury and pray to God that it's not evaporating.... :D
Or use another metal that is liquid at room temperature. There are quite a few, some alloys... err... mixtures.

Silver conducts heat better than gold. It's almost the best hear conductor found on earth... there's some other element that conducts heat better, but it's very scarce and expensive.
 
Originally posted by OneMadPoptart
They have been using "liquid" metal from this company in golf clubs for years and years. There are a whole line of putters and irons and even woods made entirely out of this stuff. Supposedly they deform controllably, and are fairly elastic as far as "metals" go, which is why they put them in very VERY expensive golfclubs that clam to go farther than any other material out there.

I don't know about the thermal properties of this stuff though, but I don't think it would out perform pure copper.
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No. Those are "glass metals", they are just alloys that became solid, but didn't crystallize, much like glass. You could call it an extremely viscous liquid, or an amporphous solid, or whatever other fancy name they can come up with, but it's not a crystal :D. Glass metals will be rigid, because as opposed to absorbing the impact, like all normal metals do, and denting, it dents, but then the atoms spring back to their places, transferring the energy back to the object it collided with; not unlike a rubber ball.

They are made by picking metals for the alloy that have almost identical atomic mass. For say, metal A has atomic mass of 24, metal B has an atomic mass of 25, C is 26 and D is 27. When the mixture cools, the atoms will attempt to form a crystallic cage, but will fail because they get "confused"; they don't really know what atoms to stick with, because they all have similar mass. As they cool, they end up chaotically, like a liquid.

Liquid metal is wonderful. It can be made out of inexpensive elements, it's extremely rigid, and about three times as strong as the strongest crystallic alloy. It's weakness is the same of glass, if you hit with enough force, it will simply shatter.
 
Really? I assumed that the reason silver was so good was because of the similarities between heat and electrical energy transfers being kind of similar. And gold is a much better conductor than silver, so I just always wondered.

Anyway, yeah, mercury is what I was thinking of. Basically I'm imagining a heatsink that has kind of a thin "wall" around the edges and the cpu having no contacts on top (yeah, that would tick off ocers unless they were unlocked by default.) And I guess it doesn't have to be airtight like I said earlier since most metals are thicker than air after all, but it has to be so tight that it may as well be. Actually, with the help of some stuff like superglue (to cover the conductive surfaces) and maybe a lot of tape or something, I think someone could do this without expensive stuff.

Someone feel free to volunteer to risk their expensive CPU and motherboard to find out for us all. ^_^

EDIT: There goes my dream of a sword stronger than steel. Darn. d-:
 
gold is NOT a better conductor than silver. Gold is merely touted as superior becuase of its resistance to oxidation or tarnish. Gold just doesn't react with other elements the way other metals do, so it is superior for making connections where contamination can cause interference...

like on the end of RCA cables, etc..

Silver is better for pure conductivity.
 
Truly? I swear I learned in high school chemistry that it was better or something. Oh well, it has been quite a few years. Weird still though.

Oh well, you learn something new every day as they say.

EDIT: Googled around. Yep, you are right. Now why the heck did I remember so vividly learning gold was better at conductivity than silver...

EDIT2: Wow, just read that silver is "bactericidal" which apparently means it kills bacteria. Very interesting. Who would have thought a mere metal would be so bad for bacteria. And they say it's inert in the human body. Sounds like a hugely expensive replacement for penecillan when the bacteria become completly immune to it in the near future.
 
Ok, there are some major misconceptions here.
Liquidmetal, and Liquidmetal II are NOT liquids anywhere near room temperatures.
LM, or Vitreloy, is molded at over 1300*F.
However above 600*F it begins to re-crystallize.
Don't know about LM II.

The name was chosen because it's a solid liquid, like glass.
If you look at very old windows the glass at the bottom is always thicker.
Glass is not a true solid, it flows like a liquid, but very, very slowly.
Liquidmetal's non-crystalline structure gives it similar properties.

LM's density is 6.1 g/cc, against copper's 8.96 and aluminum's 2.69, so weight would be a plus.

As far as thermal conductivity and specific heat however, I haven't found any good data.
 
Yes, well, I knew it wasn't liquid by the second post or so, but they said on the site that it melted at very low temperatures (that was a key selling point as they were saying it makes it a lot cheaper to mold in effect.) They didn't elaborate, so we had to wonder just HOW low.

Anyway, Madclown (darn it, too hard to type your spelling) has a good point. If it's so elastic that it can so easily retain it's shape, it does make sense that it would probably tend to not absorbe heat very well in much the same way as rubber like he was saying.

EDIT: Now I want a silver heatsink. ^_^
 
Pure aluminum has a thermal conductance of 247 W/m*K.
Next is gold at 315 W/m*K, copper at 398 W/m*K and silver hits 428 W/m*K.
Of course I would rather look into using artificial diamond.
2500 W/m*K sounds rather nice.;)


M4d-K10wN, you're backwards on how to make bulk non-crystalline metals.
Mixing similar metals will create a uniform alloy unless cooled faster than the structure can form.
Unfortunately the cooling rates required prevent making anything of substantial size.
By using metals of varying molecular size you slow down the rate of crystallization so that much larger pieces can be made.
 
Some of this stuff is related to what I'm doing my graduate research on. There were some questions about why this liquid metal material would be harder than regular materials. If memory serves, the Hall-Petch equation, which relates grain size to yield stress, tells us that

Sy = So + Ky / ((Do)^(1/2)) Where Sy is the yield stress, So is the friction stress, Ky is a material constant, and Do is the average grain diameter. As grain diameter / size decreases, yield stress will increase. This is a good thing, as it could mean bullet-proof aluminum and other novel materials for industry. The problem is that when grain sizes get to the nanometer scale (well...below about 20nm), the Hall-Petch equation begins to break down, and quantum effects pick up. This may well be Coble Creep, atomic diffusion. In this way, it is possible to create "superplastic" metals. But getting back to grain size vs. hardness: dislocations have a harder time moving across grain boundaries, especially when the grains are oriented differently.

I don't do much work with amorphous metals, but my guess would be that, with no grain structure at all, dislocations would have one hell of a time moving about. This may be the source of the enhanced hardness, but I could be wrong.

Now, as for thermal properties, I'm not as up to date on. Someone in materials confirm the below, please?

This "liquid metal" material is amorphous, in that it has no grain structure, hence no crystal structure. Assuming that the atoms are closer together than in a normal crystal structure, the melting point may be lower than a standard BCC, FCC, or HCP structure. (Talking about the bond energy curve; energy on the Y axis, radius / distance on the X axis. The curve starts high at low radius, dips to a minimum -- the optimal atomic bond distance where energy is minimized -- then increases due to attractive forces). And since thermal and electrical properties are also dependant upon grain structure (and alignment, I think) this material may prove to be a poor conductor of both heat and electricity.

If I remember correctly, amorphous metals are commonly used in the electrical equipment found on power transmission equipment. Transformers, I think. They make good dielectric materials.
 
Originally posted by M4d-K10wN
Use mercury and pray to God that it's not evaporating.... :D
Or use another metal that is liquid at room temperature. There are quite a few, some alloys... err... mixtures.

Silver conducts heat better than gold. It's almost the best hear conductor found on earth... there's some other element that conducts heat better, but it's very scarce and expensive.
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Diamond is one of THE best conductors of heat around...but its cost is obviously prohibitive.
 
Yes, a polymer metal would simply own! You could even use it in mixture with a glass metal; to go accross the structure, and prevent it from shattering.

And no, I wasn't talking about heat. I was talking about kinetic impact. I don't see why a glass metal would be any better or worse at heat conductivity than a crystallized counterpart.

Say, you make a small plate out of a glass metal. Then drop a steel ball on it. It would bounce as if it was made of rubber.
 
Diamond is one of THE best conductors of heat around...but its cost is obviously prohibitive.
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And you base that on what? Anyway, the best heat conductor foudn on earth is some "rare-earth" material. I forgot what that is though :( And why would diamond be a good heat conductor? It's not very dense compared to say, platinum.
 
Originally posted by M4d-K10wN
And you base that on what? Anyway, the best heat conductor foudn on earth is some "rare-earth" material. I forgot what that is though :( And why would diamond be a good heat conductor? It's not very dense compared to say, platinum.
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Density has little to do with heat conductance.
Code: 
          g/cc   W/m*K
Aluminum  2.6989  247
Gold     19.32    315
Copper    8.96    398
Silver   10.5     428
Diamond   3.5    2500


And yes, as in my previous post diamond is 2500 W/m*K.
 
Originally posted by M4d-K10wN
....And why would diamond be a good heat conductor? It's not very dense compared to say, platinum.
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If density were an indicator of thermal conductivity, and not crystal structure / nature of the atomic bonding, then the best heat conductor would be...lemme check the Table...Meitnerium, Z=109, with atomic weight of 266.

Or would it be: Ununhexium?

I guess I'd want to stick with some depleted uranium, with a lead shielded enclosure (just in case).
 
Originally posted by AggieMEEN
If density were an indicator of thermal conductivity, and not crystal structure / nature of the atomic bonding, then the best heat conductor would be...lemme check the Table...Meitnerium, Z=109, with atomic weight of 266.

Or would it be: Ununhexium?

I guess I'd want to stick with some depleted uranium, with a lead shielded enclosure (just in case).
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Atomic weight and density are not related.
Uranium 238 has a density of 18.95 g/cc.
Osmium however has an atomic weight of only 76 but it's density is 22.57 and is the heaviest material I found that was a solid at room temperature.
Solid Hydrogen beats it with an impressive 70.6 g/cc.:D

Osmium is usually used in platinum alloys for everything from pen tips to pacemakers.
Thermal conduction isn't that great, at only 88 W/m*K.
And avoid osmium powder, it gives off osmium tetroxide, a highly toxic and oxidizing gas.
 
Originally posted by AggieMEEN
Ky is a material constant
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constant in what? I have yet to try Ky, I've been using spit for some time now and it works, but its not very constant, you have to keep adding more.

maybe Ky is a good idea, thanks for the tip. I think I'll send my GF off to get some later tonight.

:p
 
Hrm, well, considering that diamond is carbon, just like coal, I'd say it's pretty obvious that it is the perfect example of what a crystaline structure can do. Interestingly though, diamond is the hardest material on earth. Maybe just it's crystal structure is so much, er, "cleaner" than most others it has a stronger connection between molecules. Ne? Carbon is, after all, noted for it's bonding abilities (what with that being the way we are alive and all...)

I did notice that they actually even said that diamonds are being used in some electronic devices even.

So, now, where's my diamond heatsink darn it? What?! $1000000000000?!?!!! lol

EDIT: Saw it in one of those articles. It says diamond contucs heat by the energy traveling along the crystal structures. I guess that makes sense. It still kind of works like other nonmetals by moving the atom, but if you move one, it kind of tends to move the others attached, so it will tend to transfer very nicely that way. Now if we could just make an ultra-crystaline metal eh? Then it could do both.

EDIT2: Btw, Kadarom Douhrek, you said that weight and density are not related, but that isn't by any means true. The reason that they are is that you will tend to have to have the substance be a certain size, so that means that you will have more mass when you have a denser substance. Effectively, when density goes up, weight goes up unless you decrease the size exactly proportionally. Did you perhaps mean to say density and conductivity are not related?

Yet another edit (aka 3): Hey, according to that chart water is higher than silver. So, what the hey, in that little imagined heatsink where it is air-tight (has to be here to prevent evaporation or whatever) water might work pretty darned well as a thermal paste replacement, no? Question is, is the core or whatever made of a material that would react to water. (I'm imagining a different CPU mind you where instead they have a protective coating over all but the core.)
 
Originally posted by Nazo
Yet another edit (aka 3): Hey, according to that chart water is higher than silver. So, what the hey, in that little imagined heatsink where it is air-tight (has to be here to prevent evaporation or whatever) water might work pretty darned well as a thermal paste replacement, no? Question is, is the core or whatever made of a material that would react to water. (I'm imagining a different CPU mind you where instead they have a protective coating over all but the core.)
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I've seen direct-die wc setups, where the water was touching the die directly, and if my memory serves the temperatures and heat transfer was astounding :)
 
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