does mining really lower the lifespan of GPU cards?

Digital Viper-X-

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I forgot, people who deny the laws of physics is why we are still having this fucking discussion :rolleyes:

Electromigration kills chips.
Your silicon chips are built to withstand Electromigration, or they would fail on you days after going into service. But you can't make them last infinite time, unless you make the conductors way larger than what can fit on a silicon die. Even a video card runnign at idle will eventually fail from Electromigraton, just not usually before capacitors give out.

Read, then tell me with a straight face that Electromigration is a hoax dreamed up by Leftist Media.

https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1275855
Notice the word “mitigate”
 

Digital Viper-X-

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So, I've noticed people thowing this word around alot without actually understanding what mitigation is. I work in the industry that uses this word legally. mitigation is steps taken to reduce the severity of something, not out right prevention.
Which is exactly my point?

Anyway, like a few people have already stated. Any use will decrease life span.
 

defaultluser

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Which is exactly my point?

Anyway, like a few people have already stated. Any use will decrease life span.

You're never going to accept the impact of differing current density on silicon because you don't understand it, and insist that someone should do a test to prove it for you.

Even though you can be certain that the manufacturers of these chips have already done lifetime simulations test before the product is even made.

Even though you can be certain that the manufacturer has done actual lifetime analysis on chips before they've shipped a single one to you. They design the lifetime of the interconnects based on AVERAGE CURRENT DENSITY, not total lifetime.

Manufacturers do their best to hide the effects of Electromigration from people like you because without such efforts, they couldn't sell you chips.

I know you're allergic to the article I posted, so I'll quote the relevant shit for you:

Electromigration is only significant at high current densities and only in metals. The magnitude of the electromigration force is proportional to the current density.
If you doubt the science of current density, then you're just wasting everyone's time in this thread. Just making a blanket statement of "any use decreases life" without qualifiers is just a pathetic excuse for an argument.
 
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Hagrid

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You're never going to accept the impact of differing current density on silicon because you don't understand it, and insist that someone should do a test to prove it for you.

Even though you can be certain that the manufacturers of these chips have already done lifetime simulations test before the product is even made.

Even though you can be certain that the manufacturer has done actual lifetime analysis on chips before they've shipped a single one to you. They design the lifetime of the interconnects based on AVERAGE CURRENT DENSITY, not total lifetime.

Manufacturers do their best to hide the effects of Electromigration from people like you because without such efforts, they couldn't sell you chips.

If you doubt the science of current density, then you're just wasting everyone's time in this thread. Just making a blanket statement of "any use decreases life" without qualifiers is just a pathetic excuse for an argument.
Which is the same you gave as well. How much is the answer we are looking for. The manufacturer might have the tests done at 100, 75, 50, etc usage 24/7. If it isn't by much, then mining does not destroy it much less than normal usage.
 

Digital Viper-X-

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You're never going to accept the impact of differing current density on silicon because you don't understand it, and insist that someone should do a test to prove it for you.

Even though you can be certain that the manufacturers of these chips have already done lifetime simulations test before the product is even made.

Even though you can be certain that the manufacturer has done actual lifetime analysis on chips before they've shipped a single one to you. They design the lifetime of the interconnects based on AVERAGE CURRENT DENSITY, not total lifetime.

Manufacturers do their best to hide the effects of Electromigration from people like you because without such efforts, they couldn't sell you chips.

I know you're allergic to the article I posted, so I'll quote the relevant shit for you:



If you doubt the science of current density, then you're just wasting everyone's time in this thread. Just making a blanket statement of "any use decreases life" without qualifiers is just a pathetic excuse for an argument.
So are you saying that using a video card in certain ways will have 0impact on its life span :)?

How about the effect of thermal cycling and other components like capacitors? PWM components? Fans? What are the chances that a card will fail due to electro migration , before other factors cause it to fail ?

Also what are the ICs made from? Silicon ? So which parts are more likely to fail first and why (apart from fans)
 

defaultluser

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Which is the same you gave as well. How much is the answer we are looking for. The manufacturer might have the tests done at 100, 75, 50, etc usage 24/7. If it isn't by much, then mining does not destroy it much less than normal usage.
You're like some sleazy car salesman trying to convince me that your car with 120000 on the odometer is worth the same as one that has 60000 on the odometer.

You know you're wrong, but you can't give up the fight to win your pointless battle.

IF YOU BUY A USED CARD, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MINERS HAVE PURCHASED YOU CARD PRIOR TO YOURSELF OR FOR HOW LONG IT HAS BEEN RUN AT WHAT LOADS. I GUARANTEE IT WILL EVENTUALLY DIE LIKE ALL VIDEO CARDS DO, AND WHEN IT DOES IT WILL BE SOONER THAN A CARD RUN AT MORE REASONABLE LOADS.

Experiments have already proven that every statement in my paragraph above is correct. As cards get older, and pass from one owner to the next, you really cant quantify the miles put on the cards. Also, because of the end of Moore's Law, video cards are being used longer than ever before they're retired, so yes, lifetime becomes important in the used market.

A car dealer would laugh you out of the dealership if you tried to sell a 120k car at 60k prices. Can yous see why people are laughing at your continued denial of reduced value of driving a car 24/7 versus just taking it for commutes?
 

Digital Viper-X-

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You're like some sleazy car salesman trying to convince me that your car with 120000 on the odometer is worth the same as one that has 60000 on the odometer.

You know you're wrong, but you can't give up the fight to win your pointless battle.

IF YOU BUY A USED CARD, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MINERS HAVE PURCHASED YOU CARD PRIOR TO YOURSELF OR FOR HOW LONG IT HAS BEEN RUN AT WHAT LOADS. I GUARANTEE IT WILL EVENTUALLY DIE LIKE ALL VIDEO CARDS DO, AND WHEN IT DOES IT WILL BE SOONER THAN A CARD RUN AT MORE REASONABLE LOADS.

Experiments have already proven that every statement in my paragraph above is correct. As cards get older, and pass from one owner to the next, you really cant quantify the miles put on the cards. Also, because of the end of Moore's Law, video cards are being used longer than ever before they're retired, so yes, lifetime becomes important in the used market.r
I’m pretty sure not a single person here is trying to say that mining would have 0 impact on a graphics cards life span. However , the question is , how much ? Enough to be significant versus other components failing due to other factors ?
 

Hagrid

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You're like some sleazy car salesman trying to convince me that your car with 120000 on the odometer is worth the same as one that has 60000 on the odometer.

You know you're wrong, but you can't give up the fight to win your pointless battle.

IF YOU BUY A USED CARD, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MINERS HAVE PURCHASED YOU CARD PRIOR TO YOURSELF OR FOR HOW LONG IT HAS BEEN RUN AT WHAT LOADS. I GUARANTEE IT WILL EVENTUALLY DIE LIKE ALL VIDEO CARDS DO, AND WHEN IT DOES IT WILL BE SOONER THAN A CARD RUN AT MORE REASONABLE LOADS.

Experiments have already proven that every statement in my paragraph above is correct. As cards get older, and pass from one owner to the next, you really cant quantify the miles put on the cards. Also, because of the end of Moore's Law, video cards are being used longer than ever before they're retired, so yes, lifetime becomes important in the used market.

A car dealer would laugh you out of the dealership if you tried to sell a 120k car at 60k prices. Can yous see why people are laughing at your continued denial of reduced value of driving a car 24/7 versus just taking it for commutes?
Reading comprehension is not your strong point is it? I already said I have no idea how much more it hurts it if at all. Do I need to make my sentences easier to read somehow?
Show us how much more life mining takes on a card?
 

thesmokingman

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I’m pretty sure not a single person here is trying to say that mining would have 0 impact on a graphics cards life span. However , the question is , how much ? Enough to be significant versus other components failing due to other factors ?
Of course it wears a card down, gpu's do not exist outside the laws of physics. The problem is that we cannot see the level of wear. And this is where those that mine will always want to minimize the wear rate/potential. They are biased obviously.
 

Hagrid

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Of course it wears a card down, gpu's do not exist outside the laws of physics. The problem is that we cannot see the level of wear. And this is where those that mine will always want to minimize the wear rate/potential. They are biased obviously.
Yeah just be nice to see some hard figures on how much in general.
 

Dayaks

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It's not the voltage that ages the components it's the heat. So undervolting can reduce the heat somewhat, but it's still a card that was used under full load 24/7. Compared to a card that idles most of it's life and is turned off for at least 12 hours a day it will still age much faster.
If it was run in a climate controlled environment it could be fine even after years of running. But the original question is a no brainer.
Uh... yeah. And what makes heat? Current. And what drives current? Voltage. An undervolted card will run cooler, all other things being equal.
A card run at 1.4V and 0C will age faster than a card at 1.2V and 80C. Voltage breaks down the gates...
 

Aireoth

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You can start be doing that testing yourself?
Exactly, miners are the ones arguing that their cards are not in terrible shape, because they want to sell them for as much as possible when they are done. As far as I'm concerned it's not the general public that has to convince us they are, it's the miners.

Do your own testing, until then the safe assumption is that a card running 24/7, irregardless of how hard or soft, will age faster than a card that runs part of the day at maybe full load (lots of games do not max out my GPU) and is otherwise left off.
 

Hagrid

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Exactly, miners are the ones arguing that their cards are not in terrible shape, because they want to sell them for as much as possible when they are done. As far as I'm concerned it's not the general public that has to convince us they are, it's the miners.

Do your own testing, until then the safe assumption is that a card running 24/7, irregardless of how hard or soft, will age faster than a card that runs part of the day at maybe full load (lots of games do not max out my GPU) and is otherwise left off.
So basically you have no clue and talking out the booty hole.. ;)

So nobody knows. Nobody is right or wrong, or everybody is right and wrong. Such fun!
 

Aireoth

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So basically you have no clue and talking out the booty hole.. ;)

So nobody knows. Nobody is right or wrong, or everybody is right and wrong. Such fun!
Enough. Your full of shit Hagrid.
 

Hagrid

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I don't know about anybody else but my mining cards run at 55-60%, no memory/core overclock, and stay under 40C. They do run 24/7. Now gaming on a card where some people overclock and over volt, and run from 4-8 hours per day and run near 70+?. It would be a really good to know the answer. Like I said, maybe a manufacturer already has the answer and has done the testing.
 

Digital Viper-X-

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Exactly, miners are the ones arguing that their cards are not in terrible shape, because they want to sell them for as much as possible when they are done. As far as I'm concerned it's not the general public that has to convince us they are, it's the miners.

Do your own testing, until then the safe assumption is that a card running 24/7, irregardless of how hard or soft, will age faster than a card that runs part of the day at maybe full load (lots of games do not max out my GPU) and is otherwise left off.
Or if it bothers you, don’t buy a card from a miner ?
 

AltTabbins

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This argument doesn’t have a clear answer since is different for everyone. I won’t buy a used mining card because the risks are higher than I want to deal with. Other people don’t mind or don’t think that mining affects the lifespan of a card enough to care. Are either of us wrong?

At the stupid prices cards are going for now, I’m not touching any of them anyways. Mining card or not. I don’t even have anything against miners, it’s the scalpers that can go choke on a bag of dicks.
 

Hagrid

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This argument doesn’t have a clear answer since is different for everyone. I won’t buy a used mining card because the risks are higher than I want to deal with. Other people don’t mind or don’t think that mining affects the lifespan of a card enough to care. Are either of us wrong?

At the stupid prices cards are going for now, I’m not touching any of them anyways. Mining card or not. I don’t even have anything against miners, it’s the scalpers that can go choke on a bag of dicks.
On the flip side though what about people who have over volted/clocked and ran it at 80C+?

Nobody is wrong until we have the data. I looked a little and most of it was what we just went through. Going to be a few mining cards for sale when the new Nvidia cards come out. It will be interesting to see if they are all snagged up and the price skyrockets.
 

oblox

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Sure put words in my mouth if it makes you feel better.

I know miners are just protecting your resale value, but the narrative around the quality of a used mining card is bullshit. I listed three simple reasons for not buying one, but the list of unknowns is much larger.

Yes shit can happen to a used gaming card, it's like buying anything used (car) if your smart you will realize the product is used and thus has no guarantees but you can minimize your risk by doing some research and avoiding the car with high mileage. It might have been driven gently, but it's still been drive alot.
My point is there is no way to tell a card was mined on. If you are buying used, chances are, you're buying one. Some miners are more honest than others and describe their setup and how the card was ran, others will lie, and then there are the gamers that realistically will mine on it when they aren't using it (because why wouldn't you want free money with a sunk cost) and then just say it is a gaming card. So yes, you need to buy new from here on out, else, it is safe to assume you are getting a card that has been mined on. The extent is anyone's guess.
 

Krenum

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At the stupid prices cards are going for now, I’m not touching any of them anyways. Mining card or not. I don’t even have anything against miners, it’s the scalpers that can go choke on a bag of dicks.
I agree. But it doesn't really matter though, suckers will pay the stupid prices & the companies make their money.
 

Furious_Styles

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My point is there is no way to tell a card was mined on. If you are buying used, chances are, you're buying one. Some miners are more honest than others and describe their setup and how the card was ran, others will lie, and then there are the gamers that realistically will mine on it when they aren't using it (because why wouldn't you want free money with a sunk cost) and then just say it is a gaming card. So yes, you need to buy new from here on out, else, it is safe to assume you are getting a card that has been mined on. The extent is anyone's guess.
Agreed, and there is a higher incentive to lie because apparently there's a lot of people who think mining damages them. You are also assuming that buying new won't be a chore or have the cards marked up like they have been the past few months.
 

biggles

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Someone compared buying a mining card to getting a used car without knowing the mileage. Good analogy. Think of buying a car with a broken odometer. No reliable way to determine its prior use and future lifespan.
 

Hagrid

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Someone compared buying a mining card to getting a used car without knowing the mileage. Good analogy. Think of buying a car with a broken odometer. No reliable way to determine its prior use and future lifespan.
The problem with a mining card is if they do not say it was used for mining. It will look all shiny new.
 

noko

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You have indications or degradation when electromigration becomes serious enough, CPUs lower clock speed after years of overvolting is an example. So far my 1070's, longest mining cards I have has zero indication of degradation, they OC the same as they came out of the box. Lowering the volts lessens significantly electromigration but yes if you got current flowing you have electromigration.

If my 1070's went into a ball of smoke and flames (as long as it didn't burn down my house or anything else) I would have made many times over the original cost - selling them is not even a consideration for me. I would be upfront that they were gaming cards then mining cards or more likely I would give them away like I have done for over 15 years. Of course those who do not want them for free I would not give them. Gave a ASUS 290x to a forum member last year on a different site because it was just sitting in my closet and I paid shipping.

I just get the feeling that some make out they are gamers but really are not but like to cry about gaming card prices.

Solder joints are susceptible to heat up and cool downs which gaming is probably worst at since GPU usage/heat/current is all over the place. You probably have a faster failing gaming card due to that then a well maintained mining card undervolted and well cooled - my opinion on the matter. But believe and buy what you think is best.
 
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Dayaks

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I don't know about anybody else but my mining cards run at 55-60%, no memory/core overclock, and stay under 40C. They do run 24/7. Now gaming on a card where some people overclock and over volt, and run from 4-8 hours per day and run near 70+?. It would be a really good to know the answer. Like I said, maybe a manufacturer already has the answer and has done the testing.
I would have absolutely no problem telling someone to buy one of your mining cards over one of my gaming cards. What I do to my gaming cards is WAAYYY worse than what any miner has done lol.

You guys have to realize nVidia cards are so locked down even a BIOs mod barely unleashes them. Mining wears out the fans more than anything. Unsafe voltages can't even be reached...
 
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OP should add below to thread LOL.
Oh no someone made a thread about GPU advice for video and photo editing and not gaming,lets go hunt them down because I am sure doing this all day with a video card is just wrong also.
It amazes me how weird people are when it comes to these kinds of things.It is your fucking money ,spend it how you want and no one on earth can tell you what to do or buy with that money.Anyway of the topic a little but who cares.
So I also run my CPU since 2011 clocked @ 4500MHZ that's 7 years overclocked ,if I am going to sell the CPU do I have to tell people about how I ran the CPU.
OH Also overclocked the memory blah blah blah.

It should not matter to anyone who does what with what,like mining ,just mine on your video card and make some money ,what is the problem with that.I know I mine on cards and get free video cards which is alright by me.
People are just taking the mining thing way to far ,it a fact in real life mining is happening so deal with it people.
 

Digital Viper-X-

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OP should add below to thread LOL.
Oh no someone made a thread about GPU advice for video and photo editing and not gaming,lets go hunt them down because I am sure doing this all day with a video card is just wrong also.
It amazes me how weird people are when it comes to these kinds of things.It is your fucking money ,spend it how you want and no one on earth can tell you what to do or buy with that money.Anyway of the topic a little but who cares.
So I also run my CPU since 2011 clocked @ 4500MHZ that's 7 years overclocked ,if I am going to sell the CPU do I have to tell people about how I ran the CPU.
OH Also overclocked the memory blah blah blah.

It should not matter to anyone who does what with what,like mining ,just mine on your video card and make some money ,what is the problem with that.I know I mine on cards and get free video cards which is alright by me.
People are just taking the mining thing way to far ,it a fact in real life mining is happening so deal with it people.
Please stop making sense. It hurts the brains
 

horrorshow

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The only people trying to validate that mining doesn't affect the lifespan of a GPU are.....

*drum roll please

Miners intending to unload cards.

(it is "affect" right lol? Def comparable to the whole "who/whom" debacle)
 

kirbyrj

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Overclock a Sandy Bridge CPU to 4.8Ghz+ for 7 years with extra voltage - No worries, I used good cooling

Undervolt and underclock a GPU for mining purposes - OMFG, ELECTROMIGRATION YOU DUMBASSES! DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND SCIENCE!
 

Factum

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The only people trying to validate that mining doesn't affect the lifespan of a GPU are.....

*drum roll please

Miners intending to unload cards.

(it is "affect" right lol? Def comparable to the whole "who/whom" debacle)
False, I don't mine and are not selling any cards...nice fail ;)
 

Digital Viper-X-

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The only people trying to validate that mining doesn't affect the lifespan of a GPU are.....

*drum roll please

Miners intending to unload cards.

(it is "affect" right lol? Def comparable to the whole "who/whom" debacle)
Again, pretty sure no one is saying that it does not impact GPU life
 

motqalden

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Plenty of real world testing has been done on 24/7 under full load for years. Mining is not that new and plenty of miners have been running cards for years on end. Outside of that there are tons of us who have been running cards for DC projects for 6+ years or more often "gasp" at 100% voltage!

"but i bought some cards off ebay and they died" NO shit they were probably mined by some chinese miner who didn't give a shit about temps. Heat is what kills these cards. Buy your card from someone you trust used on a forum if you want used. who cares if they mined on it because small time miners actually take care of their shit and don't let it heat up too much. Does it affect the life of the card? sure. is it that big of a deal? maybe only if you want to keep the same GPU in service for 15 years....

buying the cheapest card off ebay is a crapshoot. mined on or not.
 
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