![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Does AMD have an answer to Nehalem?
- Thread starter TS28
- Start date
TheBlueChanell
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2005
- Messages
- 4,658
At this point the only thing known to be releasing soon are the 45nm Phenoms which should be able to compete (kind of) with penryn. They may or may not have something planned but even if they did I'd assume they are keeping tight lips on whatever it may be because of the Phenom debacle.
TheScavenger
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 359
I would love more than anything to see AMD shock us with some killer products ala RV770. I just don't see it happening though...
TheScavenger
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 359
This is probably the closest thing to the truth. In the future, AMD will probably make mid-range processors that are highly price competitive.
In the short term, it looks unlikely. Deneb is a good improvement, but its still only about equal to Kentsfield per clock, and slightly short of Yorkfield. Perhaps if AMD can release much higher clocks (4GHz or more) with the high-k 45nm process the gap could be narrowed, but I think the real 'answer' to Nehalem would be Bulldozer, or it was supposed to be anyway. Its kind of fallen off the radar lately...
Waffletron
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2008
- Messages
- 222
AMD will be competing on LOW prices and low power usage. Hopefully we'll see their power consumption get down to Penryn levels with their 45nm shrink. If they can get their chipset / CPU prices low enough I may build a server box around AMD.
In my opinion AMD hasn't really provided an answer to Kentsfield.
undertheradar
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2004
- Messages
- 1,792
You mean like the 40nm RV870? Yeah, maybe they could pull a rabbit out of their hat.
Nope.
Bulldozer (45nm) is set to sample in 2009, according to Dirk Meyer back in April, and that probably means a 2010 launch. Bulldozer will be competing with Nehalem's 32nm shrink/update (Gesher) and launching not many months before Nehalem's successor. The highlight of Bulldozer, SSE5, is already getting panned as inferior to Intel's VMX. SSE5 will probably wind up largely unused like 3DNow.
Bulldozer (45nm) is set to sample in 2009, according to Dirk Meyer back in April, and that probably means a 2010 launch. Bulldozer will be competing with Nehalem's 32nm shrink/update (Gesher) and launching not many months before Nehalem's successor. The highlight of Bulldozer, SSE5, is already getting panned as inferior to Intel's VMX. SSE5 will probably wind up largely unused like 3DNow.
That is actually within the realm of possibility. AMD will be needing more funding in the next several months. Failure to keep minimum cash reserves (estimated at $600-$800 million) as terms of the other loans will definitely lead to bankruptcy if the lenders call in the debt because of that.
Talk of AMD selling off ownership of the fabs isn't just because they want to. It's a necessity for the company's survival. That's how bad it is.
TheScavenger
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 359
RV870 is going to be great, too!
I was referring to AMD shocking us with something on the processor side of things
That's what they do now. =)
I guess the next year or so will be Intel time. Wasn't the Athlon up until the Athlon XP the strongest until Core 2 came out? I've never heard of Bulldozer before. Does anyone have a link to some information about it? I'll also see what I can find on Google.
I'm not 100% sure on this but as I recall the original Athlon was faster than the Pentium III in some things and not in others. The same thing generally held true until the Northwood Pentium 4's came out and beat out the AMD offerings in most areas. This was especially true when they were overclocked as they overclocked quite well. The Athlon 64's came out and Intel released the Prescott Pentium 4's which were obviously a step down in some ways. The Athlon X2 came out and was superior to the Pentium D. Then Core 2 Duo hit and Intel has been kicking ass in virtually every category for some time.
Essentially Intel has usually dominated all their competitors throughout their time in the market. AMD's 486's weren't quite up to par with Intel's but they were better than Cyrix's offerings. The K5 was a joke, the K6 was better but still not up to par. It wasn't until the Athlon came out that AMD was able to regularly compete against Intel on any real level. During most of the Athlon's run Intel and AMD traded blows in benchmarks. That is until the Athlon 64 came out in which case AMD dominated in every area aside from video encoding. AMD remained supreme until Core 2 Duo's release.
undertheradar
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2004
- Messages
- 1,792
Well, for the desktop market at least... AMD still has the better server procs... so I wouldnt say Intel is 'dominating' them there.
AMD overtakes Intel in 4S servers, but Intel is ahead on 1S and 2S servers. Unfortunately (for AMD), 4S and higher servers are only around 2%-4% of the market by units. Despite AMD's advantage in that niche, Intel still gets significantly higher ASPs in the MP segment.
When you look at it, AMD is/was horribly mismanaged. It's no surprise that so many executives left or were booted in the last 11 months.
Vermillion
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2007
- Messages
- 4,415
I don't think we'll see AMD dominate anymore. Even with Bulldozer I just don't see it happening although this may close the gap a little bit. I love AMD and used them for many years. The Intel PC in my sig is my first Intel system.
I see AMD doing with their CPU's what they're doing with their video cards. Very good price/performance. So they'll stick around and offer very good alternatives to Intel offerings. They just won't have the performance crown. A single 4870 isn't the highest performing part. But for it's price it crushed the competition and caused huge price cuts. I see AMD CPU's doing the same thing which will mean lower prices all around except for the highest end stuff.
-V
I see AMD doing with their CPU's what they're doing with their video cards. Very good price/performance. So they'll stick around and offer very good alternatives to Intel offerings. They just won't have the performance crown. A single 4870 isn't the highest performing part. But for it's price it crushed the competition and caused huge price cuts. I see AMD CPU's doing the same thing which will mean lower prices all around except for the highest end stuff.
-V
Yes, amazing isn't it?
Sort of like a psychological barrier. AMD has taken on Kentsfield twice now (well, three times if you count the TLB-bugged stepping and the fixed one as separate attempts), and still they fall short.
For almost two years now, Kentsfield has proven a bridge too far for AMD. I've never seen anything like it (or well, the 8800GTX from nVidia, but they got that one on the third try).
I don't think we'll see AMD dominate anymore. Even with Bulldozer I just don't see it happening although this may close the gap a little bit. I love AMD and used them for many years. The Intel PC in my sig is my first Intel system.
I see AMD doing with their CPU's what they're doing with their video cards. Very good price/performance. So they'll stick around and offer very good alternatives to Intel offerings. They just won't have the performance crown. A single 4870 isn't the highest performing part. But for it's price it crushed the competition and caused huge price cuts. I see AMD CPU's doing the same thing which will mean lower prices all around except for the highest end stuff.
-V
Well for the longest time AMD was known as "that other CPU maker" and I'm fairly certain AMD doesn't want to go back to being that. However for the moment they'll have to survive on providing price/performance like you stated in your post. I think that AMD will certainly try their best to get back on top. I have my doubts that AMD will make it to that level with Bulldozer but I could be wrong.
Intel has had a fencing game with AMD since the Athlon and ended up being second fiddle to AMD ever since the Athlon 64 came out. Intel worked hard to get past that and get back on top. With their money and drive to dominate they'll probably stave off AMD for some time.
Don't forget that Intel also still has the Itanium in the bigger server market (pretty much mainframes). They're quite popular for visualization systems or large database servers.
They are often used in systems with tens to thousands of CPUs, a market where you basically don't see AMD at all, aside from the odd custom-built supercomputer cluster here and there.
People its called Bulldozer and amd has had an answer to the integrated gpu/cpu its the gen2 fusion chippery. Deneb will have an impact on the bottom line most companies invested in the opteron and the deneb is a drop in replacement lets not forget the tlb bug put amd 3-6 months behind and they need to play catchup
as far as intel's tic toc the strategy fails in profit margins most of their chips are still being made with the 65nm process http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8870&Itemid=1 and will for some time so im not worried about the i7 till q3 next year
as far as intel's tic toc the strategy fails in profit margins most of their chips are still being made with the 65nm process http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8870&Itemid=1 and will for some time so im not worried about the i7 till q3 next year
AMD will have this same problem with 45 nm, and with the introduction of Bulldozer.
Problem is, by the time AMD introduces its new products, Intel's products will have already picked up speed.
the tlb l3 bug is fixed permanently the problem is intel is moving to fast for its market tic toc is good but the lifespan of microarchitectures is now extremely short when before one socket could last upwards of 2-4 years now is one or less
I've got no doubt that Bulldozer will probably out match Kentsfield and Yorkfield but I have my doubts that it will match up against Nehalem. (Core I7)
Well the truth is that the TLB bug didn't really matter all that much. It was just a PR disaster for AMD and that's all. I think Intel is moving so fast in order to keep AMD off balance. Intel's R&D budget is probably larger than the amount of cash AMD sees all year. Intel is leveraging their pockets in order to keep the processor development ahead of AMD. This means that in order for AMD to leap ahead they'll have to get lucky.
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 5,862
AMD's answer to GT200: they kept quiet about their their R700 and then BAM, they hit them with superb price/performance.
Hopefully they will pull the same trick again with Intel.
Hopefully they will pull the same trick again with Intel.
I have a feeling that taking on NVIDIA is easier than taking on Intel.
Well, Conroe has been around for over 2 years now, and socket 775 was around even before Conroe.
Obviously you have to change sockets at some point, or at least change chipsets.
I hope that Intel takes a leaf out of AMD's book though, and makes their new socket upwardly compatible, like Am2 and Am2+.
Now that the memory controller is on the CPU, that should be easier to do, because the bandwidth to the chipset isn't as important for overall performance anymore.
With the memory controller being integrated into the CPU I'll bet on more compatibility between chipsets and processors going forward on the Intel side.
Unlike R700, I doubt Deneb will be near the ballpark performance wise (its only equal to Kentsfield per clock), so effectively AMD is competing with an architecture that is a generation ahead.
Not to mention, a 2.66GHz Nehalem costs $284, what kind of trick do you see AMD pulling? Sub $200 Denebs? What about margins?
True BUT nvidia was the company of the year last year and ati did a very good job so anything is possible.
they didn't keep that quite at all, Nvidia knew for a long time what was coming, several people dropping kites about internal panic at Nvidia over the 4800. I am not hearing any such things and I doubt that intel is worried.
We already have performance numbers for Deneb. For a die shrink, its a nice improvement over Agena, and the power consumption is nice, but it sure ain't going to compete (in performance at least) with Nehalem.
Also as others have pointed out Intel and nVidia are very different beasts.
the only thing that can save AMD now is if something really bad happens to Intel..
When I compare Intel to AMD, it seems like Intel is a full generation ahead of AMD..what AMD is doing now, Intel did more than a year ago..
AMD screwed up. They just need to get their poop together...
When I compare Intel to AMD, it seems like Intel is a full generation ahead of AMD..what AMD is doing now, Intel did more than a year ago..
AMD screwed up. They just need to get their poop together...