Doctors Want to Control Negative Reviews Online

CommanderFrank

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A new twist on the Doctor/Patient privilege has emerged and has raised alarms in the medical community nationwide. In an attempt to curb the growing number of negative comments directed at doctors and their reputations, some doctors are requesting patients sign away their rights to post negative comments on Angie’s List and other online service rating organizations.

Medical Justice then supplied its clients with a much stronger agreement -- which opponents liken to a gag order -- giving the doctor free reign to compel removal of any post for any reason.
 

Uncle

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I'm tired of this shit. Lawyers , Policemen, Engineers, Doctors, Corporations,oh did I mention politicians,etc, all professional groups it seems can all "self regulate" when one of their own gets into hot water, all behind closed doors usually with NDA's signed. Its time consumers have the same rights because as we all know it sure as hell isn't the government whose protecting our rights anymore.:mad:
 

GotNoRice

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And if they put up a negative review anyway, the doctors are going to do what, sue?
 

Term-X

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Often, terrible doctor reviews are based off the secretary's performance, at least that's what I've found here in Canada.
 

Mad Cat

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I'm tired of this shit. Lawyers , Policemen, Engineers, Doctors, Corporations,oh did I mention politicians,etc, all professional groups it seems can all "self regulate" when one of their own gets into hot water, all behind closed doors usually with NDA's signed. Its time consumers have the same rights because as we all know it sure as hell isn't the government whose protecting our rights anymore.:mad:

The military, also known as the profession of arms, self-regulates and has done so for hundreds or thousands of years. That's what makes a profession a profession. Yeah, outside oversight can be useful, but the profession itself is in the best position to regulate and is the subject matter expert. In both the military and engineers, if we mess up people die. Ever heard of IEEE or the FEE? That's self-regulation at work. However, by your tone I deduce that you don't belong to one of the groups you mentioned, so you may not understand the feeling of moral obligation I'm talking about.

As to the article, it says that the First Amendment does not prohibit NDAs. However, I think they should be prohibited for the rating of business services (aside from reviewers such as [H] before the release date or trade secrets, of course).
 

Ur_Mom

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So, instead of doing a better job to get better reviews, they still do shitty work but get rid of the bad reviews...

Not someone I'd want as my MD. If I had to sign something like that, I'd be finding a new Dr.. Not cool at all.
 

TwistedAegis

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The military, also known as the profession of arms, self-regulates and has done so for hundreds or thousands of years.

Actually, there is are very good reasons why the military was placed under civilian - outside control - in the US.
 

Mad Cat

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Actually, there is are very good reasons why the military was placed under civilian - outside control - in the US.

Oh, I completely agree that it should be under civilian control. I am receiving my commission in May this year, so I have learned and understand why that is. I was talking about the more day to day stuff that falls under the regs and UCMJ that they handle internally, not something on the scale of a coup.
 

djoye

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Often, terrible doctor reviews are based off the secretary's performance, at least that's what I've found here in Canada.
I'm in the US and I've seen reviews where people complain about the front desk which are probably the people I'm about to discuss.

Then, there are the people that are hypochondriacs and think everything is a damn health emergency and if they're not taken seriously or treated with utmost priority then the doctor is bad. I can only imagine how many nutjobs the front desk has to put up with and how trying that job must be at times.

Just like reviews with ANYTHING on the net, I need to see a large number of negative reviews before I really suspect something is wrong but I guess the truly bad doctors or perhaps the unlucky doctors (gets all the hypochondriacs) would like to be able to control online reviews.
 

Pringals

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What they should do is encourage their patients to review them and have an official doctor review website just for referrals and references. The problem with most reviews is people only spend time to post a review if there was something wrong and they have a negative to point out. You rarely see positive reviews, so the doctors should encourage all their clients to submit a review, good or bad, in hopes the good will outweigh the bad. If it doesn't, then they need to work on their efforts and find ways to improve on it. They should walk their patient out and say "Thanks for coming in today. Here's my card with a website address for doctor referrals. Please drop by and let us know how we did today" instead of stopping in for a 5 minute chit chat with one foot already out the door after you had waited 45 minutes after your appointment. I review shit for weeks before I make a purchase, why should I just go to any doctor on a whim? Its my life I'm talking about, not some gadget or worthless product. I want to know how the good this doctor is or isn't and see how their other patients feel afterward. I was diagnose about 4 years ago with Rheumatoid Arthritis and I spent thousands of dollars, was polluted with many different meds, and went through several doctors before I finally found someone who found a treatment for me that actually took the pain away and gave me my life back. To have one official review site with peoples comments would have saved me a ton of cash and missed days of work while I moved from one doctor appointment to the next.
 

DarthBeavis

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We have been finding some bad reviews customers posted on-line so we are taking action to improve upon those complaints . . .the only bad part is that some of them are dated. I am glad people take the time to comment about our business because even a negative complaint reflects the person cared enough to take the time to write it. When we do make a change we will contact the customer if we can and thank them for helping us to improve - might even give them a discount to come back to at least try us out again
 

Stone Cold

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It should be standard practice for doctors to make patients sign agreements not to post bad reviews.

1) Most complainers are idiots, in the first place.
2) Because of privacy laws, doctors can defend themselves against public accusations.
 

DarthBeavis

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It should be standard practice for doctors to make patients sign agreements not to post bad reviews.

1) Most complainers are idiots, in the first place.
2) Because of privacy laws, doctors can defend themselves against public accusations.

Do you have statistical evidence for number 1?

Number 2 makes no sense. How do privacy laws allow doctors to defend themselves? I think you should have another cup of coffee before you post bud :D
 

Gnasher

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What people should do is report them to the Medical Board if they have a legit complaint.
 

mt2e

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Its all subterfuge and obfuscation with the goal of projecting control and complicity in the subject using intimidation and repercussions as a starting point. By agreeing to not do something in writing that otherwise would be permissible and acceptable shows a cowardly reliance on defining burden of acceptable behavior to the patient and not the doctor.
 

Trimlock

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Oh, I completely agree that it should be under civilian control. I am receiving my commission in May this year, so I have learned and understand why that is. I was talking about the more day to day stuff that falls under the regs and UCMJ that they handle internally, not something on the scale of a coup.

Congrats!

Me personally, I can't sign up for it, it seems the job security with commisioning in the AF is very weak these days ...
 

Stone Cold

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Do you have statistical evidence for number 1?

Just go to any consumer complaints website.

"My mother purchased a Playstation 2 and several games for me from Best Buy... When I inserted one of the games, the Playstation could not read it. I discovered the disc was cracked. My mother had the receipt, so we decided to go back to Best Buy to exchange it and that is when my hell began. The young man at the exchange desk told me that the game i was returning was a bootleg copy..." Typical idiocy.

Is that above person really so stupid that he doesn't know what a burned copy looks like vs. an original CD? Comparing a failed attempt to return a game to "hell"?

A few stupid reviews does minimal harm to a retail store like Best Buy, but it could do a great deal of harm to a doctor.

Number 2 makes no sense. How do privacy laws allow doctors to defend themselves? I think you should have another cup of coffee before you post bud :D

Sorry, privacy laws prevent a doctor from defending themselves against public accusations. IMO, a public complaint should invalidate doctor-patient confidentiality restrictions on the doctor, at least in the scope relevant to the complaint.
 

Dreaz

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The whole system should be removed. It's completely dumb and akin to that ridicilous ratemyprofessor.com BS.

All this does is promote doctors who "please" the patients with "good" news or some other nonsense. Patients with a vendetta can harm a doctor just because they "feel" cheated.

Leave criticism to the experts, not the fools.
 

DarthBeavis

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Just go to any consumer complaints website.

"My mother purchased a Playstation 2 and several games for me from Best Buy... When I inserted one of the games, the Playstation could not read it. I discovered the disc was cracked. My mother had the receipt, so we decided to go back to Best Buy to exchange it and that is when my hell began. The young man at the exchange desk told me that the game i was returning was a bootleg copy..." Typical idiocy.

Is that above person really so stupid that he doesn't know what a burned copy looks like vs. an original CD? Comparing a failed attempt to return a game to "hell"?

A few stupid reviews does minimal harm to a retail store like Best Buy, but it could do a great deal of harm to a doctor.



Sorry, privacy laws prevent a doctor from defending themselves against public accusations. IMO, a public complaint should invalidate doctor-patient confidentiality restrictions on the doctor, at least in the scope relevant to the complaint.

you first statement is not statistical proof ;)

I agree on the second statement about privacy laws.
 
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you first statement is not statistical proof ;)

I agree on the second statement about privacy laws.

I don't agree with the other poster that complainers are idiots, but I will say that rating a doctor isn't the same thing as rating a plumber. Sure there are similarities from the service end of it (demeanor, etc), but a doctor has to deal with multiple factors that other service professionals don't. I don't think sites like Angie's list properly take into account the difference between a good health care professional and a good plumber. I'd go into specifics, but the list is simply too long. I will say that a persons health insurance has just as much to do with the care they'll receive as any doctor. If you're willing to pay cash, you'll be introduced to a world of health care that would blow your mind.

Couple this with the fact that doctor can't properly defend him/herself against a negative review without breaking confidentiality, and you arrive at the reason why you shouldn't be allowed to rate your doctor online in the same way you rate your plumber.
 

Gnasher

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Vastly outnumbered by completely ignorant, irrational or delusional "patients". We're special and very important people here in the U.S. :rolleyes:

Published stats show doctors misdiagnose about 50% of the time so it is the Doctors who think they are God and know it all who are delusional. A woman here just died from a brain aneurism because the Doctors told her it was just a migraine when it wasn't.

Due to ill health I have much experience with doctors and when I cross check proper procedure on the internet I find many of them are negligent in their practices. They all get pissed that we look up illnesses on the internet too and expect us to put our faith in their diagnoses. Only a complete fool would do that.
 

DarthBeavis

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I don't agree with the other poster that complainers are idiots, but I will say that rating a doctor isn't the same thing as rating a plumber. Sure there are similarities from the service end of it (demeanor, etc), but a doctor has to deal with multiple factors that other service professionals don't. I don't think sites like Angie's list properly take into account the difference between a good health care professional and a good plumber. I'd go into specifics, but the list is simply too long. I will say that a persons health insurance has just as much to do with the care they'll receive as any doctor. If you're willing to pay cash, you'll be introduced to a world of health care that would blow your mind.

Couple this with the fact that doctor can't properly defend him/herself against a negative review without breaking confidentiality, and you arrive at the reason why you shouldn't be allowed to rate your doctor online in the same way you rate your plumber.

I own (with my wife) a mufti-doctor veterinary clinic - but I do think we live in the United States - with this little thing called the US Constitution. GOVERNMENT has no business telling people they cannot rate their doctors or plumbers. Now I know you will say that it is not government as the contract is between two private parties . . .unfortunately you are wrong . . .as we are being forced to buy healthcare due to Obamacare ;)
 

El Barto

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Its all subterfuge and obfuscation with the goal of projecting control and complicity in the subject using intimidation and repercussions as a starting point. By agreeing to not do something in writing that otherwise would be permissible and acceptable shows a cowardly reliance on defining burden of acceptable behavior to the patient and not the doctor.

Yeah, what he said.
 

pothb

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Vastly outnumbered by completely ignorant, irrational or delusional "patients". We're special and very important people here in the U.S. :rolleyes:

Yes, but if they say stupid things such as, "he's horrible, don't go to him" without a reason, they should be ignored. If they say something outright false, then he can be sued for slander. It's up to the readers to decide to believe what they want.

I know I've said this a lot.... but serious... so much for freedom of speech.
 

LoneWolf

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I'm in the US and I've seen reviews where people complain about the front desk which are probably the people I'm about to discuss.

Then, there are the people that are hypochondriacs and think everything is a damn health emergency and if they're not taken seriously or treated with utmost priority then the doctor is bad. I can only imagine how many nutjobs the front desk has to put up with and how trying that job must be at times.

Just like reviews with ANYTHING on the net, I need to see a large number of negative reviews before I really suspect something is wrong but I guess the truly bad doctors or perhaps the unlucky doctors (gets all the hypochondriacs) would like to be able to control online reviews.

I think there's a lot of truth in the above.

I'm torn on this. I don't want to stifle people's comments --but I think the average layman reviewing a doctor has the potential to be like a newbie reviewing hardware on NewEgg.

Doctor tells you it would improve your health to lose weight --newbie takes it, reads "I'm fat" and gives bad review.

Doctor advises someone to stop smoking, someone takes that, thinks "He/she can't tell me how to run my life", gives bad review.

Most of us only know so much about medicine, too. That's why we go to a doctor, right? We go to get help with things we don't understand enough about ourselves, kind of like the way sometimes friends/relatives/others come to us for computer help. Ever have one of those friends/relatives/others give you crap because they don't get it when it comes to their computer? I guarantee plenty do the same with their physician.

I don't think opinions should be stifled --but I do think it's best to take reviews like this the way we read NewEgg reviews --with a grain or two of salt.
 

Greene420

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Why wouldn't you just go to a reputable doctor? Screw what some suckers on the internet say.... if the person has been a doctor for 15-20+ years, they are more than likely fucking good :D

People are relying too much on the internet for their information these days, especially the complete dummies with their ridiculous iphones talking into it and shit.
 

Archmage

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What if the second opinion is wrong too? :confused:

I've had more than 100 opinions thus far - almost all completely useless and/or to my detriment (when I was younger, I'd assume that doctors were a credible resource, so they'd derail my research, suggesting that I was on the wrong track. Now they waste my time, make accusations, and make matters difficult as far as testing and insurance goes, but that's beyond my control).

I've self-diagnosed for the past 8 years, trying to make sense of my chronic illness. I've finally taken it almost as far as allopathic diagnostic criteria can go, and I'm in the process of having these diagnoses confirmed and made official in order to create a legal update.

I've been correct about nearly all of my hunches, and correct about how the illness might change and progress over the years. In terms of actual diagnosis, I've done about 90% of the work myself, which is a ridiculous burden to place on the person who is chronically ill. I've been seeing people who are often distinguished, board-certified specialists. I've now reached what seems to be the first steps toward an end-diagnosis in spite of their help (I had one open-minded doctor willing to run tests given my suggestion - and I sought him out because of his ONLINE REPUTATION - although it was on a health forum, he is also listed and universally given 5-star reviews on review sites).

I've found only a few doctors who were willing to listen to my evidence, research, and analysis... it's ridiculous that if one doesn't have an obvious, cookie-cutter medical issue, it can render many doctors not just useless, but a detriment to the patient. I don't agree with the standard treatments or diagnostic criteria for many issues... too often they preclude proper blood-work and analysis, which, even using their criteria, may become necessary later anyway.

I understand that doctors cannot defend themselves from these reviews, and that some patients may be complaining about inane details, but sometimes these reviews are helpful for those seeking a doctor or specialist with a receptive ear/mind.

I don't know how a proper review system would look, but I know that I'd rather have one in place than not have one at all. I'm the type of person who needs it.
 

Genny

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Published stats show doctors misdiagnose about 50% of the time so it is the Doctors who think they are God and know it all who are delusional. A woman here just died from a brain aneurism because the Doctors told her it was just a migraine when it wasn't.

Due to ill health I have much experience with doctors and when I cross check proper procedure on the internet I find many of them are negligent in their practices. They all get pissed that we look up illnesses on the internet too and expect us to put our faith in their diagnoses. Only a complete fool would do that.

Assuming that's true...let's say someone brought you a computer and said it was acting odd. You aren't able to actually open up the computer and all you really have to go off is the person's account of the problem. You could make an educated guess, but a lot of it is trial and error--troubleshooting is trial and error, as is troubleshooting a human body. If treatment A does not work we move on to treatment B.

The reason doctors despise people googling symptoms is that the average person is an idiot and will assume they have MS if their foot falls asleep. I don't have a problem with doctors requesting this really. A doctor is not supposed to give you what you want and make you happy, they're there to give you what you need. (You also must realize how many people visit a doctor with drug seeking behavior--they can get in a lot of legal trouble for enabling)
 

aviat72

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Vastly outnumbered by completely ignorant, irrational or delusional "patients". We're special and very important people here in the U.S. :rolleyes:

So true; the sense of entitlement by people who would be below average in many other countries is amazing.

The whole system should be removed. It's completely dumb and akin to that ridicilous ratemyprofessor.com BS.

All this does is promote doctors who "please" the patients with "good" news or some other nonsense. Patients with a vendetta can harm a doctor just because they "feel" cheated.

Leave criticism to the experts, not the fools.

I have some doctors in the family and this is so true. Most of the time the bad reviews are based on customer service issues (long delays, my call was not returned, the pharmacy did not have the prescription etc.).

Another vindictive set of complainers are the "I need a paid vacation, so I am having neck pain, so please authorize workers comp" cases, which many MDs refuse to oblige. There are of course MDs who specialize in approving worker's comp cases who spoil it for the rest.

Medicine used to be a noble profession.:eek:

Till the lawyers and the suits took over the US.

You will be surprised how many times patients families utter the word lawyer in the first few minutes of conversation, especially for hospitalized patients. Many of them want to keep their 90 year parent alive on a vent to collect the social security and other checks. Others just want to establish power.

There are very few professions where you are responsible for so much but are subtly threatened with lawsuits by people who have no clue but have a sense of entitlement. It is not without reason that MDs in the US practice defensive medicine, to cover their backsides.

The national average compensation for Internists is around $150-$160K. There are many good engineers who pull in that much and much more. The MD starts earning after the age of 30 and with hundreds of thousands in debt. The engineer starts earning in the early 20s.

Though it is a rewarding profession it can be very tough emotionally and physically.
 

RealityCrunch

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I've self-diagnosed for the past 8 years, trying to make sense of my chronic illness.

In terms of actual diagnosis, I've done about 90% of the work myself, which is a ridiculous burden to place on the person who is chronically ill. I've been seeing people who are often distinguished, board-certified specialists. I've now reached what seems to be the first steps toward an end-diagnosis in spite of their help (I had one open-minded doctor willing to run tests given my suggestion - and I sought him out because of his ONLINE REPUTATION - although it was on a health forum, he is also listed and universally given 5-star reviews on review sites).

I've found only a few doctors who were willing to listen to my evidence, research, and analysis... it's ridiculous that if one doesn't have an obvious, cookie-cutter medical issue, it can render many doctors not just useless, but a detriment to the patient.

I've had similar experiences, mostly showing that western medicine doctors aren't really that helpful unless you have something which fits within their textbooks, and then they're only really useful in treating the symptoms, and not the underlying cause. They're wonderful at treating wounds, injuries, and other issues caused by physical injury, but when it comes to a real holistic understanding of the human body, they're usually lacking.

I was in a similar boat to you. My body suddenly started wasting away 6 years ago. I was confined to a wheel-chair for going out as I couldn't walk or stand for more than 10 minutes a day, and I had terrible anxiety and depression. Spent all my savings, family money, and disability pension for several years seeing doctors, specialists, getting tests done, buying medication, going to physiotherapy with no diagnosis in sight and only slight relief from the pain (due mainly to painkillers). So I eventually just gave up.

It wasn't until I saw a Naturopath 4 months ago that I saw an improvement. A change of diet to fresh organic food, some colonic irrigations, and some herbs and I'm now able to work, walk, exercise, my anxiety is clearing up, and I'm no longer depressed. All of that change happened within 2 weeks. All my issues were simply caused by over-toxicity, which was brought on by medications and the standard food you find in the supermarket (genetically engineered, sprayed with pesticides, hormones added, grown in low quality soil).

Sorry for any offense caused by my post, it's an emotional issue and toes are always bound to be stepped on when discussing personal experience in relation to people's professions.
 
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