Do you feel gamers have become "soft?"

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Flybye

Limp Gawd
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Jun 29, 2006
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I come from an era when gamers would keep coming back for more. If the game was too hard, we kept picking at it till we mastered it. If we played against better players, we kept playing against them until we were just as good or better. We never cried about difficultly and never called a game unbalanced.

I sometimes feel a certain portion of today's gamers whine too much about difficulty. People crying about no proper matchmaking, they feel some games are"unbalanced," a patch comes out making a game harder and people start with their "It's too hard now. I'll wait till the next patch" causing them to rage quit, etc.

Do you think some gamers have become too soft? Or is it that I never simply noticed the soft gamers before?
 
I used to think this, but then those Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Bloodborne-style games became really popular.

I'm not sure if gamers became soft or if developers made their games softer in an attempt to make them more accessible.
 
I think to some degree they have. In fact, I even thought I myself was getting a little complacent with all the handholding games do these days. Then I'd go back, and try to play some of those classics via emulation, and was definitely not as good as I remembered.

However, then a few things happened.
1. As mentioned by Mr. Gore above the Souls-style games started emerging, making people enjoy and speak up about challenging games. I didn't get into the early Souls games, but I absolutely loved DS3.

2. I started playing indie games that brought back a lot of the challenge of the older games, but with a few modern conveniences that made some of that type of challenge palatable. (more check-points, better save systems, highly accurate control schemes, etc.) Dead Cells, Hollow Knight, Sundered, Hyper Light Drifter, Axiom Verge, are some prime examples. This REALLY started building back up my reaction time, and that will to keep going back for more whether its difficult or not.

3. I realized that emulators (most of them at least) can be pretty bad where latency and synchronization are concerned. I started playing all of my classic games on MiSTer FPGA, and then started realizing that it wasn't me (or at least AS MUCH me) that sucked, but rather, the games didn't play identically to how they did when I was younger. I'm sure the practice from the games in #2 above helped a bit, but playing on FPGA is night and day from playing on most emulators. Everything is tight and accurate, and I found myself getting further into my old favorites from the 80s and 90s than any time in recent years. Playing on original hardware would have also done this, but I don't like maintaining old gear, and storing all the games.

4. I still replay a lot of DOS era games where there was zero hand-holding. Star Control 2, the Ultima series, System Shock, Sierra Adventure games, etc. These teach you to look for things yourself, and I find myself turning off at least some of the features in modern games that do all of this for you. I still enjoy a good autolog, and turning on waypoints is nice if you're lost, but having to do a bit of the actual work oneself is nice sometimes.

I think some modern players are going to never experience games the way some of us did, and will never develop a taste for some of the old types of challenges. SOME of the old types of challenges though weren't always a good thing, and just a product of limitations or time period. Some modern gamers are actually BETTER than some of us old-school guys though. Look at the speedrunning scene for a taste of that. Some of those guys are absolutely brilliant. I try to adopt some of their play styles on occasion, and while a bit of it is attainable, some of it I'm just like "how the fuck are you doing this?!?!?" :D

In general though, I do think a lot of modern games (especially "AAA") cater to the lowest common denominator at least to some degree. They have to worry about selling millions, building a big fan-base of people of various skills, etc. Games aren't just for nerds and arcade dwellers these days. :D
 
Unpopular opinion: Games were never hard, we were just young and dumb. Many times when I replay an old game I realize how easy it is, despite remembering it a being hard back in the day.
 
gamers are more whiny then ever before...look at Doom Eternal...a very good game that dared to implement some new mechanics and you got a bunch of whiny people crying that the game was too different from Doom 2016 and they don't like change...there's a thread here at [H] about 'Why Doom Eternal sucks' lol
 
I wouldn't say I became "soft" but generally "busy." So, I have to be more conscience of my time. Anyone who thinks old games were "easy" are lying. However, I will also say, anyone who thinks things are "easier" are wrong too. It's just different eras of design. All with their own style and difficulties.

What I will say is, I can't stand the era of "speedruns." I find nothing thrilling about that stuff.
 
polonyc2 said:
gamers are more whiny then ever before...look at Doom Eternal...a very good game that dared to implement some new mechanics and you got a bunch of whiny people crying that the game was too different from Doom 2016 and they don't like change...there's a thread here at [H] about 'Why Doom Eternal sucks' lol
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Not quite the same thing. Also, most of the people in that thread agree that it doesn't suck. :D I think it was just a place for people to pick apart a few things that they didn't like about the game. I think maybe 2-3 people in there actually didn't like the game.
 
twonunpackmule said:
What I will say is, I can't stand the era of "speedruns." I find nothing thrilling about that stuff.
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I thought the same for a while, and where things like tool-assist are concerned, I feel like "what's the point?". However, if you watch some of the actually good players, that just know their paths through the game, and know how to play well, it's actually pretty impressive. I can't watch them to any great extent, but when I see a game I like being played by someone really good it's kinda cool. Almost like standing and watching someone that was really good at an arcade game in the 80s.
 
M76 said:
Unpopular opinion: Games were never hard, we were just young and dumb. Many times when I replay an old game I realize how easy it is, despite remembering it a being hard back in the day.
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I'm sure that there might be some cases of this, but some games were definitely hard. Maybe not impossible, but many are difficult or at least challenging still. Some of the Megaman series can be tricky, some later games like Contra Hard Corps can be challenging.
 
Flybye said:
I come from an era when gamers would keep coming back for more. If the game was too hard, we kept picking at it till we mastered it. If we played against better players, we kept playing against them until we were just as good or better. We never cried about difficultly and never called a game unbalanced.

I sometimes feel a certain portion of today's gamers whine too much about difficulty. People crying about no proper matchmaking, they feel some games are"unbalanced," a patch comes out making a game harder and people start with their "It's too hard now. I'll wait till the next patch" causing them to rage quit, etc.

Do you think some gamers have become too soft? Or is it that I never simply noticed the soft gamers before?
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I think most people on this damn planet have become too soft for their own good. They all need to sack up and stop whining. Part of the problem is that gamer's are too entitled and think the game should be their way. An expectation has also been set that the way a game is on release isn't set in stone. Back in the day, the way a game shipped is the way it stayed. Even expansion packs were far more self-contained and really didn't change the core game. If you didn't like it, too damn bad. Your choice was to suck it up or quit playing it. It was hard for gamers to be heard with sales numbers doing all the talking. It was also easy for companies to ignore their customers and as long as the sales were there, they had no reason to doubt that they did good. Now, PR is a nightmare and the cancel culture has made things so much worse. For every success story like Destiny 2, there are many games that often don't get a fair shake out of the gate or fix themselves way too late in the game. For every Destiny 2, there are probably dozens of Mass Effect Andromeda's.

That being said, there was something different about older games. They kept you coming back for the gaming experience itself, not unlocks and downloadable content. Things have changed and our attention spans are very different. Games now need to offer so much more to keep players interested. Part of that I think may come down to game design but part of that comes down to changing tastes and an evolution of the gaming experience. Some of these evolutionary changes are good and some are very bad.
 
Flybye said:
I come from an era when gamers would keep coming back for more. If the game was too hard, we kept picking at it till we mastered it. If we played against better players, we kept playing against them until we were just as good or better. We never cried about difficultly and never called a game unbalanced.

I sometimes feel a certain portion of today's gamers whine too much about difficulty. People crying about no proper matchmaking, they feel some games are"unbalanced," a patch comes out making a game harder and people start with their "It's too hard now. I'll wait till the next patch" causing them to rage quit, etc.

Do you think some gamers have become too soft? Or is it that I never simply noticed the soft gamers before?
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I've been gaming for 30 years and as I get older I find myself hating hard games. I just want to have fun. If I can't win in real life... I like winning in a game. lol.

I don't think gamers have become soft... there have always been people who don't like hard games and certain games altogether just turn people off so it's not that people have become soft but rather the internet has given everyone a voice so everyone is using that voice to complain about games or game elements they don't like.
 
Most people under 35 have become soft. Whiny, bitchy, I want it my way or else bipolar self centered individuals. Gamers can just anonomously express it stronger. Those over 35 are wearing down trying to deal with them.

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No gamers have just expanded beyond its nerdy roots.

Normies want basic, simple, rapid fire games like CoD, Battlefield, Apex, etc. They can hop in, shoot things, have a bare minimum of skill and leave. In the interest of reaching the mass market, lots of games are watered down experiences of what they where. There are several 80's CRPG's that have more depth than most modern games, but there are modern counterparts that just don't have mass audience.
 
Aireoth said:
No gamers have just expanded beyond its nerdy roots.

Normies want basic, simple, rapid fire games like CoD, Battlefield, Apex, etc. They can hop in, shoot things, have a bare minimum of skill and leave. In the interest of reaching the mass market, lots of games are watered down experiences of what they where. There are several 80's CRPG's that have more depth than most modern games, but there are modern counterparts that just don't have mass audience.
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What do normies do anyway? Get smoothies? - Magic Man :p

I think we're seeing a return to the complexities of older games, but it's mainly happening in two spaces. The small indies, and the indies who are all developers from those eras who don't want to bow to a modern publisher that wants CoD clones. (Some examples being the newer Wasteland games, Shadowrun, Underworld Ascendant (though this one was a bit of a mess on release) and some others.)) For the REAL hardcore 80s nerd, things like Caves of Qud (which I actually enjoyed quite a bit for a while).

There is something for pretty much anyone out there, but you have to know where to look if what you don't want is CoD or Assassin's Creed 15.

The younger player now though I think typically wouldn't play a lot of classic games the way some of us would. I don't think many of them "get" why many of those games were enjoyable. Some of it is that there weren't games like we have now. Some of it was that the type of people who'd have played these games back then are a bit different. Probably other factors in there as well.

I see negative reviews on Steam because people don't understand pixel art. Sure there was a little boom in mediocre mobile games trying to cash in on it, but real, quality, pixel art with a good game behind it is breathtaking, and some people don't get it. They see pixels, and automatically think "inferior". (when really, it's a style and an art form) I've played some indies over the past few years that are better thought out than games that cost $200+ Million to develop.

I guess there's more than just whether someone is hardcore or not where games are concerned. It's also aesthetics that some people don't get. Game themes that are beyond dude-bro-Madden guy. Niche ultra-demanding platformers that some people just don't have the dexterity for. Etc.

Still though, I think some of us have some gaming skills that aren't common among many younger people (with exceptions of course). My daughter almost kept up with me in Hollow Knight. She's 13. It eventually got to be a bit much for her, but she was right there with me (playing parallel games) through about 75% of the game.

Maybe there are so many people playing games now that it's just easier to point at all the ones that can't hang now. :p
 
zamardii12 said:
I've been gaming for 30 years and as I get older I find myself hating hard games. I just want to have fun. If I can't win in real life... I like winning in a game. lol.

I don't think gamers have become soft... there have always been people who don't like hard games and certain games altogether just turn people off so it's not that people have become soft but rather the internet has given everyone a voice so everyone is using that voice to complain about games or game elements they don't like.
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I was actually starting to think this way myself, and then ended up challenging myself with some of the harder games like Dead Cells. Then I found myself looking for more challenging games again. I still like something that I can just sit back and enjoy, without getting pissed off during a boss fight, without missing a platform for the 15th time, etc. So I get it. I've also found myself enjoying hard games again too though, as long as they're good ones.
 
J3RK said:
What do normies do anyway? Get smoothies? - Magic Man :p

I think we're seeing a return to the complexities of older games, but it's mainly happening in two spaces. The small indies, and the indies who are all developers from those eras who don't want to bow to a modern publisher that wants CoD clones. (Some examples being the newer Wasteland games, Shadowrun, Underworld Ascendant (though this one was a bit of a mess on release) and some others.)) For the REAL hardcore 80s nerd, things like Caves of Qud (which I actually enjoyed quite a bit for a while).

There is something for pretty much anyone out there, but you have to know where to look if what you don't want is CoD or Assassin's Creed 15.

The younger player now though I think typically wouldn't play a lot of classic games the way some of us would. I don't think many of them "get" why many of those games were enjoyable. Some of it is that there weren't games like we have now. Some of it was that the type of people who'd have played these games back then are a bit different. Probably other factors in there as well.

I see negative reviews on Steam because people don't understand pixel art. Sure there was a little boom in mediocre mobile games trying to cash in on it, but real, quality, pixel art with a good game behind it is breathtaking, and some people don't get it. They see pixels, and automatically think "inferior". (when really, it's a style and an art form) I've played some indies over the past few years that are better thought out than games that cost $200+ Million to develop.

I guess there's more than just whether someone is hardcore or not where games are concerned. It's also aesthetics that some people don't get. Game themes that are beyond dude-bro-Madden guy. Niche ultra-demanding platformers that some people just don't have the dexterity for. Etc.

Still though, I think some of us have some gaming skills that aren't common among many younger people (with exceptions of course). My daughter almost kept up with me in Hollow Knight. She's 13. It eventually got to be a bit much for her, but she was right there with me (playing parallel games) through about 75% of the game.

Maybe there are so many people playing games now that it's just easier to point at all the ones that can't hang now. :p
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I'd love to see something in the vein of MegaTraveller, Starflight, OG Mechwarrior or the Crescent Hawks games.
 
Aireoth said:
I'd love to see something in the vein of MegaTraveller, Starflight, OG Mechwarrior or the Crescent Hawks games.
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I'm pretty sure there was a small team working on a new Starflight game at one point, but I can't remember now. Those games look like fun. I was a Star Control guy myself. :D (and Wing Commander I and II)
 
Krenum said:
Games were hard as shit back in the day, TMNT on the NES comes to mind.
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I play plenty of ROMs can confirm, lots of hard games.

J3RK said:
I'm pretty sure there was a small team working on a new Starflight game at one point, but I can't remember now. Those games look like fun. I was a Star Control guy myself. :D (and Wing Commander I and II)
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Starflight was pre-star control, less arcade more strategy. Their pretty great and on GoG if tou want to give them a shot and don't mind the very old interface and text.

Loved Star Control 2 though, it is much more accessable than Star Flight.
 
Ha I just read this in a forum this morning on a game I play:
"What the hell is going on and why is this so hard?"

The whines just continue to build up, and the devs will either fold and make the game easier or smart up and make multiple difficulty levels.
 
You become soft if you dont go outside to exercise. A pile of playstation 2 goo you will become. Part of the problem is 3D videogames nobody wants to sit weeks or hours in front of inferior technology screen that just became popular because they are cheap for the consumer. CRTs basically defined games their smaller size let's people and game designers Focus on what they are actually constucting in front of them. I was wondering why I spent 3 years playing Ultima Online it was a weakness for me and the smaller size monitor helped plus 2D graphics to boot. LCD screens are uncomfortable for long sessions thus they bring out the ADD in most everyone.
 
Comixbooks said:
You become soft of you dont go outside to exercise. A pile of playstation 2 goo you will become. Part of the problem is 3D videogames nobody wants to sit weeks or hours in front of inferior technology screen that just became popular because they are cheap for the consumer. CRTs basically defined games their smaller size let's people and game designers Focus on what they are actually constucting in front of them. I was wondering why I spent 3 years playing Ultima Online it was a weakness for me and the smaller size monitor helped plus 2D graphics to boot. LCD screen are uncomfortable for long sessions thus they bring out the ADD in most everyone.
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I don't go out to exercise. That's nonsense. I do it in an air conditioned gym 5 or 6 days a week.
 
Say you were exposed to 800 different videogames during your lifetime. So you would have a pretty good scope what is good and what isnt. Compared to someone who was exposed to 4 or 5 different games. The person with the smaller pile of games is going to think more highly of those few games than a Twitch streamer who basically uses every tool in the box to complete every game for his stream.
 
M76 said:
Unpopular opinion: Games were never hard, we were just young and dumb. Many times when I replay an old game I realize how easy it is, despite remembering it a being hard back in the day.
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TwistedMetalGear said:
The Lion King would like a word with you. Some games were designed to be impossible to beat in a single rental period.

https://www.polygon.com/2019/10/30/20939859/the-lion-king-nintendo-switch-difficulty
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Indeed - many early console games were designed off of the arcade mindset, which was to get as many quarters out of kids as possible. So yes, they were fucking hard by design.
 
Aireoth said:
Starflight was pre-star control, less arcade more strategy. Their pretty great and on GoG if tou want to give them a shot and don't mind the very old interface and text.

Loved Star Control 2 though, it is much more accessable than Star Flight.
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I've seen it, and always wanted to give it a try, just never did for some reason. I may pick it up on GoG and give it a whirl. I don't mind old interfaces at all. Still play a ton of old games with cryptic interfaces. :D
 
Aireoth said:
Ninja Gaiden, TMNT, Ghosts and Goblins, Mystical Ninja, Noid, Karati Kid, mega man, some double dragons, battle toads, silver surfer, blaster master. just to name a few.
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Generally, if a person doesn't think Ghosts n Goblins or Ghouls n Ghosts is hard, they may not be human. :D I always quit after beating the game once-through. I've never done the full double play-through to get the real ending. However, I did fully complete the Master System GnG, but it's a little different.
 
I'll just mention the following here as well.

Bullet Hell.

:D

Of course, these games weren't called that way back when, but they were still all over the arcades. Especially the Atlus, Cave, Raizing/8ing, Compile shooters. Actually the Compile games were a bit more friendly, but still pretty hard. Super Aleste, Spriggan spring to mind.

Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga also come to mind, though the home ports really didn't hit until the 2000s if memory serves.

If you've never played Guwange, I suggest giving it a whirl. Also, limit yourself to a sane and realistic amount of virtual quarters like you would have in the arcades. ;)
 
Kid IkArus was hardest game I beat. Spy Hunter is probably the hardest game I ever played.
 
More people gaming=more softies gaming as well

And softies complain more than 'hard core gamers' so you simply just see more people complaining

There is more, but due to overall increase
 
After a week of work, the last thing I want is an overly difficult game. I want something relaxing and fun.
 
M76 said:
Unpopular opinion: Games were never hard, we were just young and dumb. Many times when I replay an old game I realize how easy it is, despite remembering it a being hard back in the day.
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Not true for me, I gave Super Mario Bros 3 a retry a year ago that I never pictured as any exceptionally hard game as a kid but damn I sucked at it now, constantly failing jumps and had to restart different worlds a couple of times xD I was definitely better at platform games as kid I learned then.

I definitely think we get more "hold your hand" type of semantics these days, the one exception I've had is Kingdom Come: Deliverance, that felt refreshing when you had to pay attention to what was said and think for yourself and not just follow pointers. I'd welcome more of that.

I remember as a kid beating difficult NES games could be a bit of a challenge beating some bosses especially, we used to take turns to try beat them with a friend and that EPIC WIN feel when you actually beat them. For me the difficulty lvl definitely plays a role in how I enjoy games. I typically use mods in games I can like Fallout, Skyrim, Far Cry series etc to raise the difficulty lvl (typically a higher damage based gameplay so especially enemies deals way more damage so you have to be more careful instead of running around like rambo)
 
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I do think that games have gotten easier over the years but I think it's a good thing. I've gone back and played some games from my childhood and they were hard as shit but then I remember I had near limitless time to beat said games. Now there are games for nearly everyone. I don't have a lot time to play so I enjoy being able to set the difficulty setting down so I can move forward with the story and not spend hours being stuck at a certain part.
 
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