Do you even want to buy a CPU right now?

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
31,798
Intel's 12400 ES/QS samples are beating 5600x in leaked data, using DDR4. 10400 and 11400 were about $185 with integrated graphics. $160 - $170 without graphics. That's $100 less than a 5600x.
Leaks aren't reality until it releases. The 5600X is what - a year old? I'd hope that something new coming out would beat it. Now we wait to see what AMD does.

My 3960X beats the pants off a 7980XE - does that say that the 7980XE was poorly priced, or that generational changes made it less competitive/valid since it's older? Heck, Intel used to charge 2k for those - the 10980 dropped because of threadripper, so I'd say those arguments go both ways on pricing.

As for the 10400/11400 - I rarely pay attention to mid-range kit, but that's good pricing to make it competitive with an (arguably) better architecture. Good on Intel. Lets you decide if you want to pay for the architecture, or save and just get cores.
 

chameleoneel

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 15, 2005
Messages
4,832
Leaks aren't reality until it releases. The 5600X is what - a year old? I'd hope that something new coming out would beat it. Now we wait to see what AMD does.

My 3960X beats the pants off a 7980XE - does that say that the 7980XE was poorly priced, or that generational changes made it less competitive/valid since it's older? Heck, Intel used to charge 2k for those - the 10980 dropped because of threadripper, so I'd say those arguments go both ways on pricing.

As for the 10400/11400 - I rarely pay attention to mid-range kit, but that's good pricing to make it competitive with an (arguably) better architecture. Good on Intel. Lets you decide if you want to pay for the architecture, or save and just get cores.
No disagreements. The point was that, if the 12400/12400f releases at about the same price as the 10 and 11 series ---- AMD will need to have a response.

I don't doubt the leaks.
 

lopoetve

Fully [H]
Joined
Oct 11, 2001
Messages
31,798
No disagreements. The point was that, if the 12400/12400f releases at about the same price as the 10 and 11 series ---- AMD will need to have a response.

I don't doubt the leaks.
That's utterly fair. I'm hoping the leaks are real - competition drives success (cough skylake 15 versions cough), and I use both extensively (I literally have one of every platform of note for the last 5 years).
 

vegeta535

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
7,089
No disagreements. The point was that, if the 12400/12400f releases at about the same price as the 10 and 11 series ---- AMD will need to have a response.

I don't doubt the leaks.
AMD will respond with price cuts. They are not going to have anything to really compete against Alder lake til they release Zen 4. I don't see the 3D cache bringing that much performance gains over the 5xxx CPUs.
 

chameleoneel

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 15, 2005
Messages
4,832
AMD will respond with price cuts. They are not going to have anything to really compete against Alder lake til they release Zen 4. I don't see the 3D cache bringing that much performance gains over the 5xxx CPUs.
I think that large dollop of cache has a big chance at keeping AMD competitive in gaming. lots of evidence over the past few months, that cache is a defining element in games. Whether or not that cache matters much anywhere else, we'll see.

problem is, the cache will be expensive. So....even if they do reduce the regular 5600x to say....$200. Its still going to be slower than Alder Lake. and there is no way a 5600x with a bunch of 3D cache, will cost $200. The cache is only a fix for the mid/high range price bracket. Annnnnd I don't even expect there will be a 6 core with extra cache. I think that probably the 5800x and 5900x will be the priority for the extra cache. And there may be some low availability 5950x and maybe even on a delayed release.
 
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sethk

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
1,976
Multi layer cache with a bunch of connecting tech is expensive. I wonder what we will see <$300 - like is it cheaper to sell an 8 core than a 6 core with more cache (or is it just not viable at a lower price point). Either way I think the $300 and under price points which were historically the high volume segment for enthusiasts, is likely to be reinvigorated by competition which is good for everyone.
 

Kdawg

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 12, 2017
Messages
1,066
intel better not jack up the price of the 12400

i'm liking this chip because of the newest hardware video codecs
 

GiGaBiTe

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
1,908
Any tips for re-balling joints? I have a hot air gun but no idea how to go about it.

Hot air gun like the kind from the hardware store? Or an actual hot air rework station where you can control the temperature?

A hot air gun gets far too hot, like 600-1200C. They can be used in a pinch if you have a thermocouple that can measure the temperature and not fry the entire board. You have to be VERY careful if you use he-man smash heat blaster heat gun, like don't get the nozzle closer than probably 6" to the board or stuff is going to burn quick. I've had to use my Kawasaki heat gun on a few occasions on boards that had huge power planes for removing BGA CPUs, it's not fun.

Preferable method is a proper hot air rework station, they're not terribly expensive.

In either case, you'll need liquid flux to flood under the GPU ASIC, don't be stingy with it. Then use aluminum foil folded up into 2-4 layers and cut a square out the size of the GPU ASIC to put around the chip to protect everything else. After you got flux and the PCB protected, you pre-heat the entire board to maybe 70-80C and then blast the GPU ASIC with 300-350C for a minute or two in a circular motion to evenly heat the chip. After that, slowly back off and keep the board evenly heated for another few minutes and let it cool down to room temperature. Raising the board temp will reduce the amount of warping it experiences than if you just shocked the ASIC with high temps, it'd be likely to crack again with the garbage ROHS solder.

Oh, I forgot to mention, do this outside or with very good ventilation. You're going to have lots of smoke, and you don't want to breathe any of that in.
 

kirbyrj

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
28,821
intel better not jack up the price of the 12400

i'm liking this chip because of the newest hardware video codecs

Historically, you have to get the 1X500 to get the better version of the IGP which is slightly more expensive and harder to find. The 1X400 CPU is slightly gimped with less EUs.
 

chameleoneel

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 15, 2005
Messages
4,832
Historically, you have to get the 1X500 to get the better version of the IGP which is slightly more expensive and harder to find. The 1X400 CPU is slightly gimped with less EUs.
In the case of the 11400 Vs. the 11500: Encoding and Decoding features are the same. Theoretically, the 11500 could support more simultaneous video decodes/encodes. But XE is so much more powerful than the previous UHD 750, it doesn't really matter. Except for the most extreme Plex server users trying to do several streams. Or someone trying to play games.
 

RickyJ

Gawd
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Messages
999
Bring it on. My X58 system has been a trooper for 12 years meow. It's had upgrades like a hex-core Xeon but retirement is overdue. I'm lacking the instruction sets for some newer games so I keep playing older ones. Hopefully Alder Lake is successful and DDR5 is at least on par with good DDR4. I'd rather overbuild and keep the system for a long time.
 

Tsumi

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
13,504
I'm still on an i7 4930k and only just upgraded from a GTX 690 to a GTX 1080Ti. Since I'm mostly playing indie games, I think my build will last me another 3 years at least.
 

waterbucket

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
167
I have no interest in buying any CPUs at the moment. I’m rocking a 3600X/3080, 8086K/3080 and a third system with a 8700K/3070Ti.

I don’t do anything much other than some light/medium gaming on a 144hz 1440p monitor and basic internet usage for paying bills or what have you these days. In fact I usually play the PS5 if I’m gaming these days unless there’s a must play on PC title or a shooter.

My system will probably still last quite awhile. Everything launched since my 8086K has been just mediocre improvements over anything I use my PC for.
 

Kdawg

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 12, 2017
Messages
1,066
i need a cpu to build my own.

prebuild pc's are a rip off. The cheapest barebones i5-11400 Acer system costs $550

8gb ram and 512gb nvme ssd. Retail cost - cpu $182, ram $30, ssd $45, mobo $70, $50 case/psu, Windows $30 = ~410

since they get the parts cheaper, they're making over 34% profit right now because of this shortage situation.
 

ZodaEX

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
4,049
I made a thread about where to buy a CPU and no one on this forum could help me but Newegg eventually restocked on i7s so I bought one of those as soon as they went live.
Still haven't gotten around to building it though.
 

daglesj

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
May 7, 2005
Messages
5,437
i need a cpu to build my own.

prebuild pc's are a rip off. The cheapest barebones i5-11400 Acer system costs $550

8gb ram and 512gb nvme ssd. Retail cost - cpu $182, ram $30, ssd $45, mobo $70, $50 case/psu, Windows $30 = ~410

since they get the parts cheaper, they're making over 34% profit right now because of this shortage situation.

34% markup isn't that amazing. As we say in business. 10% for me, 10% for the taxman and 10% for a rainy day.

They also have premises, staff costs etc. etc. Thats pretty cheap.

Now of you want to get annoyed remember the prescription drugs that you as a tax payer paid to develop, that the big pharma makes for $10 a dose but charges you or your family $1000 a dose for it.
 
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