Do you even want to buy a CPU right now?

lopoetve

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Intel's 12400 ES/QS samples are beating 5600x in leaked data, using DDR4. 10400 and 11400 were about $185 with integrated graphics. $160 - $170 without graphics. That's $100 less than a 5600x.
Leaks aren't reality until it releases. The 5600X is what - a year old? I'd hope that something new coming out would beat it. Now we wait to see what AMD does.

My 3960X beats the pants off a 7980XE - does that say that the 7980XE was poorly priced, or that generational changes made it less competitive/valid since it's older? Heck, Intel used to charge 2k for those - the 10980 dropped because of threadripper, so I'd say those arguments go both ways on pricing.

As for the 10400/11400 - I rarely pay attention to mid-range kit, but that's good pricing to make it competitive with an (arguably) better architecture. Good on Intel. Lets you decide if you want to pay for the architecture, or save and just get cores.
 

chameleoneel

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Leaks aren't reality until it releases. The 5600X is what - a year old? I'd hope that something new coming out would beat it. Now we wait to see what AMD does.

My 3960X beats the pants off a 7980XE - does that say that the 7980XE was poorly priced, or that generational changes made it less competitive/valid since it's older? Heck, Intel used to charge 2k for those - the 10980 dropped because of threadripper, so I'd say those arguments go both ways on pricing.

As for the 10400/11400 - I rarely pay attention to mid-range kit, but that's good pricing to make it competitive with an (arguably) better architecture. Good on Intel. Lets you decide if you want to pay for the architecture, or save and just get cores.
No disagreements. The point was that, if the 12400/12400f releases at about the same price as the 10 and 11 series ---- AMD will need to have a response.

I don't doubt the leaks.
 

lopoetve

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No disagreements. The point was that, if the 12400/12400f releases at about the same price as the 10 and 11 series ---- AMD will need to have a response.

I don't doubt the leaks.
That's utterly fair. I'm hoping the leaks are real - competition drives success (cough skylake 15 versions cough), and I use both extensively (I literally have one of every platform of note for the last 5 years).
 

vegeta535

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No disagreements. The point was that, if the 12400/12400f releases at about the same price as the 10 and 11 series ---- AMD will need to have a response.

I don't doubt the leaks.
AMD will respond with price cuts. They are not going to have anything to really compete against Alder lake til they release Zen 4. I don't see the 3D cache bringing that much performance gains over the 5xxx CPUs.
 

chameleoneel

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AMD will respond with price cuts. They are not going to have anything to really compete against Alder lake til they release Zen 4. I don't see the 3D cache bringing that much performance gains over the 5xxx CPUs.
I think that large dollop of cache has a big chance at keeping AMD competitive in gaming. lots of evidence over the past few months, that cache is a defining element in games. Whether or not that cache matters much anywhere else, we'll see.

problem is, the cache will be expensive. So....even if they do reduce the regular 5600x to say....$200. Its still going to be slower than Alder Lake. and there is no way a 5600x with a bunch of 3D cache, will cost $200. The cache is only a fix for the mid/high range price bracket. Annnnnd I don't even expect there will be a 6 core with extra cache. I think that probably the 5800x and 5900x will be the priority for the extra cache. And there may be some low availability 5950x and maybe even on a delayed release.
 
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sethk

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Multi layer cache with a bunch of connecting tech is expensive. I wonder what we will see <$300 - like is it cheaper to sell an 8 core than a 6 core with more cache (or is it just not viable at a lower price point). Either way I think the $300 and under price points which were historically the high volume segment for enthusiasts, is likely to be reinvigorated by competition which is good for everyone.
 

Kdawg

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intel better not jack up the price of the 12400

i'm liking this chip because of the newest hardware video codecs
 

GiGaBiTe

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Apr 26, 2013
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Any tips for re-balling joints? I have a hot air gun but no idea how to go about it.

Hot air gun like the kind from the hardware store? Or an actual hot air rework station where you can control the temperature?

A hot air gun gets far too hot, like 600-1200C. They can be used in a pinch if you have a thermocouple that can measure the temperature and not fry the entire board. You have to be VERY careful if you use he-man smash heat blaster heat gun, like don't get the nozzle closer than probably 6" to the board or stuff is going to burn quick. I've had to use my Kawasaki heat gun on a few occasions on boards that had huge power planes for removing BGA CPUs, it's not fun.

Preferable method is a proper hot air rework station, they're not terribly expensive.

In either case, you'll need liquid flux to flood under the GPU ASIC, don't be stingy with it. Then use aluminum foil folded up into 2-4 layers and cut a square out the size of the GPU ASIC to put around the chip to protect everything else. After you got flux and the PCB protected, you pre-heat the entire board to maybe 70-80C and then blast the GPU ASIC with 300-350C for a minute or two in a circular motion to evenly heat the chip. After that, slowly back off and keep the board evenly heated for another few minutes and let it cool down to room temperature. Raising the board temp will reduce the amount of warping it experiences than if you just shocked the ASIC with high temps, it'd be likely to crack again with the garbage ROHS solder.

Oh, I forgot to mention, do this outside or with very good ventilation. You're going to have lots of smoke, and you don't want to breathe any of that in.
 

kirbyrj

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intel better not jack up the price of the 12400

i'm liking this chip because of the newest hardware video codecs

Historically, you have to get the 1X500 to get the better version of the IGP which is slightly more expensive and harder to find. The 1X400 CPU is slightly gimped with less EUs.
 

chameleoneel

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Historically, you have to get the 1X500 to get the better version of the IGP which is slightly more expensive and harder to find. The 1X400 CPU is slightly gimped with less EUs.
In the case of the 11400 Vs. the 11500: Encoding and Decoding features are the same. Theoretically, the 11500 could support more simultaneous video decodes/encodes. But XE is so much more powerful than the previous UHD 750, it doesn't really matter. Except for the most extreme Plex server users trying to do several streams. Or someone trying to play games.
 

RickyJ

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Jun 9, 2004
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Bring it on. My X58 system has been a trooper for 12 years meow. It's had upgrades like a hex-core Xeon but retirement is overdue. I'm lacking the instruction sets for some newer games so I keep playing older ones. Hopefully Alder Lake is successful and DDR5 is at least on par with good DDR4. I'd rather overbuild and keep the system for a long time.
 

Tsumi

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I'm still on an i7 4930k and only just upgraded from a GTX 690 to a GTX 1080Ti. Since I'm mostly playing indie games, I think my build will last me another 3 years at least.
 

waterbucket

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Feb 10, 2018
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I have no interest in buying any CPUs at the moment. I’m rocking a 3600X/3080, 8086K/3080 and a third system with a 8700K/3070Ti.

I don’t do anything much other than some light/medium gaming on a 144hz 1440p monitor and basic internet usage for paying bills or what have you these days. In fact I usually play the PS5 if I’m gaming these days unless there’s a must play on PC title or a shooter.

My system will probably still last quite awhile. Everything launched since my 8086K has been just mediocre improvements over anything I use my PC for.
 

Kdawg

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i need a cpu to build my own.

prebuild pc's are a rip off. The cheapest barebones i5-11400 Acer system costs $550

8gb ram and 512gb nvme ssd. Retail cost - cpu $182, ram $30, ssd $45, mobo $70, $50 case/psu, Windows $30 = ~410

since they get the parts cheaper, they're making over 34% profit right now because of this shortage situation.
 

ZodaEX

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Sep 17, 2004
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I made a thread about where to buy a CPU and no one on this forum could help me but Newegg eventually restocked on i7s so I bought one of those as soon as they went live.
Still haven't gotten around to building it though.
 

daglesj

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May 7, 2005
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i need a cpu to build my own.

prebuild pc's are a rip off. The cheapest barebones i5-11400 Acer system costs $550

8gb ram and 512gb nvme ssd. Retail cost - cpu $182, ram $30, ssd $45, mobo $70, $50 case/psu, Windows $30 = ~410

since they get the parts cheaper, they're making over 34% profit right now because of this shortage situation.

34% markup isn't that amazing. As we say in business. 10% for me, 10% for the taxman and 10% for a rainy day.

They also have premises, staff costs etc. etc. Thats pretty cheap.

Now of you want to get annoyed remember the prescription drugs that you as a tax payer paid to develop, that the big pharma makes for $10 a dose but charges you or your family $1000 a dose for it.
 

DooKey

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Apr 25, 2001
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I like to switch back and forth between AMD and Intel. I've run Ryzen 1700X, 2700X, 3950X, and 5800X. I'm going to go to an ADL system when they become available. I want to play around with the BIG.little core setup.
 

kirbyrj

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I like to switch back and forth between AMD and Intel. I've run Ryzen 1700X, 2700X, 3950X, and 5800X. I'm going to go to an ADL system when they become available. I want to play around with the BIG.little core setup.

I would like to play around with one also. All depends on how steep the early adopter tax is this time around with DDR5 and what seems like the ever increasing motherboard pricing.
 

hititnquitit

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$300-$350, Geil 2x16gb ddr5 4800 40-40-40-70 with and without rgb is the starting point. Haven't seen anything cheaper yet (there's faster but no pricing info yet). Decent Z690 mb and 12900 is going to be investment level prices. If you can find any of the three of course, big if. The usual bs.
 

zandor

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Dec 14, 2002
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I would like to play around with one also. All depends on how steep the early adopter tax is this time around with DDR5 and what seems like the ever increasing motherboard pricing.
I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one either but I don't want to buy it. A Ryzen would be ok too, but the CPU I want is the one that comes with a new work-issued laptop and not a lot of business models use the Ryzen chips, especially the "H" and "HX" versions.

For my personal stuff I have no need to upgrade at this time since I have two late 2020 builds and a late 2019 laptop plus my previous workstation that I kept around after doing a full build last year. Unless something breaks or I decide I need another machine I don't see buying any CPUs for a year or two, likely longer.
 

DooKey

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I would like to play around with one also. All depends on how steep the early adopter tax is this time around with DDR5 and what seems like the ever increasing motherboard pricing.
Personally I don't care what the price is. I always early adopt and it's fun.
 

scott41

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Jul 24, 2006
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Been out of the build business for awhile. Running an i7-6700K. Started looking at upgrades with the Windows 11 news. Done my homework to get up to speed, but really not sure what to do at this point:

1) Build a new system around i7-11700K, Asus ROG Strix Z590, new ram, I have an RTX 2080 that I paid over $700 for (just a few years ago), probably keep that for now
2) Wait for Alder Lake release and build system around that, but no DDR5 on above class of mobo (and will my RTX 2080 even run on such a mobo?)
3) Just hold off, Win10 supported through 2025, wait a couple of years until DDR5 prices come down.
 

vegeta535

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Been out of the build business for awhile. Running an i7-6700K. Started looking at upgrades with the Windows 11 news. Done my homework to get up to speed, but really not sure what to do at this point:

1) Build a new system around i7-11700K, Asus ROG Strix Z590, new ram, I have an RTX 2080 that I paid over $700 for (just a few years ago), probably keep that for now
2) Wait for Alder Lake release and build system around that, but no DDR5 on above class of mobo (and will my RTX 2080 even run on such a mobo?)
3) Just hold off, Win10 supported through 2025, wait a couple of years until DDR5 prices come down.
Why wouldn't the 2080 run on it? I say wait for Alder Lake at least. If anything prices on 11 gen will come down as they start clearing them out. Some boards will allow both DDR4 and 5 so you could potentially upgrade it in the future.
 

Nenu

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Been out of the build business for awhile. Running an i7-6700K. Started looking at upgrades with the Windows 11 news. Done my homework to get up to speed, but really not sure what to do at this point:

1) Build a new system around i7-11700K, Asus ROG Strix Z590, new ram, I have an RTX 2080 that I paid over $700 for (just a few years ago), probably keep that for now
2) Wait for Alder Lake release and build system around that, but no DDR5 on above class of mobo (and will my RTX 2080 even run on such a mobo?)
3) Just hold off, Win10 supported through 2025, wait a couple of years until DDR5 prices come down.
Do you need to upgrade?
 

chameleoneel

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Been out of the build business for awhile. Running an i7-6700K. Started looking at upgrades with the Windows 11 news. Done my homework to get up to speed, but really not sure what to do at this point:

1) Build a new system around i7-11700K, Asus ROG Strix Z590, new ram, I have an RTX 2080 that I paid over $700 for (just a few years ago), probably keep that for now
2) Wait for Alder Lake release and build system around that, but no DDR5 on above class of mobo (and will my RTX 2080 even run on such a mobo?)
3) Just hold off, Win10 supported through 2025, wait a couple of years until DDR5 prices come down.
I would definitely upgrade but...wait for Alder Lake, at least. It should be pretty good and at the least, prices on Zen 3 and Rocket Lake will come down a bit.

Whether you choose Rocket Lake, Alder Lake, Zen 3 or Zen 3 with V-Cache (probably in January) ---- you will undoubtedly get more out of your RX 2080. Especially in minimum framerates.
 

hititnquitit

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I agree with the others suggesting you hold on until alder lake releases. Find out whats up with that, then make a choice. There are going to be both ddr4 z690 mbs and ddr5 z690s so there's no need to go broke buying sloppy early release ddr5 modules. You can stick with ddr4 if you choose to like most people will.
11th gen cpus aren't worth bothering with at this point.
Regarding windows 11, grab a nice shiny new ssd for your new rig. Dig out an old copy of 7,8 or 10 and upgrade to 11 on your new ssd(or grab an old drive you have laying around). Take it for a test drive and see if you like it.
Definitely ride your 2080 out. The gpu situation is just stoopid right now and your card is still solid.
 

evhvis

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Feb 12, 2021
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225
Been out of the build business for awhile. Running an i7-6700K. Started looking at upgrades with the Windows 11 news. Done my homework to get up to speed, but really not sure what to do at this point:

1) Build a new system around i7-11700K, Asus ROG Strix Z590, new ram, I have an RTX 2080 that I paid over $700 for (just a few years ago), probably keep that for now
2) Wait for Alder Lake release and build system around that, but no DDR5 on above class of mobo (and will my RTX 2080 even run on such a mobo?)
3) Just hold off, Win10 supported through 2025, wait a couple of years until DDR5 prices come down.
Depends on how badly you need a new computer. The 6700k will be a bottleneck in games, but if you are fine with your current framerates then you may want to wait. Main issues are that a new ram type (in this case DDR5) is slow and expensive for the first 12-24 months and that the new socket it may be a slightly immature platform (early adopter). E.g. my p67 motherboard was obsolete pretty fast and couldn't run a 3770k which was the next gen CPUs. IMO it makes sense to wait for the reviews and then look at total price for CPU+MB+RAM and decide what makes the most sense. I still remember going with fairly fast DDR4 memory a short while after the 7700k came out and 8-9 months later the memory was priced at half of what I paid for it (got the system a short while before DDR4 became the mainstream choice).
 

scott41

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Jul 24, 2006
Messages
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Depends on how badly you need a new computer. The 6700k will be a bottleneck in games, but if you are fine with your current framerates then you may want to wait. Main issues are that a new ram type (in this case DDR5) is slow and expensive for the first 12-24 months and that the new socket it may be a slightly immature platform (early adopter). E.g. my p67 motherboard was obsolete pretty fast and couldn't run a 3770k which was the next gen CPUs. IMO it makes sense to wait for the reviews and then look at total price for CPU+MB+RAM and decide what makes the most sense. I still remember going with fairly fast DDR4 memory a short while after the 7700k came out and 8-9 months later the memory was priced at half of what I paid for it (got the system a short while before DDR4 became the mainstream choice).
Actually, my 6700K performs pretty well, no real complaints, only upgraded it a few years ago after running an i7-920 for seven years. The whole reason the upgrade even came up was that Windows 11 doesn't support pre-7th gen Intel CPUs. But now, looking at all the shiny new toys, I've got the itch again. Judging from comments, and what I probably knew deep down anyway, best immediate course of action is to just wait a few weeks, let the new CPUs, and reviews drop, then wait for 11th gen price drop then re-assess.
 

Captain Newmackwa

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I don't think my 9900K is obsolete at the moment. I don't notice it getting bottlenecked in games and it runs everything fine so I don't feel the itch to upgrade. I'll see how things go in the next few years. Competition seems to be heating up.
 

lopoetve

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I’ve been debating now with rumors on Alder Lake. I think I’ve decided to wait one more generation; for once, this requires an new version of windows to make full use, and while the idea of upgrading my gaming box for the hell of it is nice (I have a sudden need for another server!), I’m not gonna do a new version of windows without a year of baking first.
 

Kdawg

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if alder lake i5k is more expensive than rocket lake i7k

i don't see the benefit, for a budget pc I wanna build.
I need more cores for my purposes, but not if they jacked up the price

11th gen i7k is only 299 at microcenter.

any compelling reason to get the 12th gen over the 11th gen at this price?
 

hititnquitit

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if alder lake i5k is more expensive than rocket lake i7k

i don't see the benefit, for a budget pc I wanna build.
I need more cores for my purposes, but not if they jacked up the price

11th gen i7k is only 299 at microcenter.

any compelling reason to get the 12th gen over the 11th gen at this price?

Inevitably AL will be more expensive. If the leaks are anything to go by it will also be quite a bit faster but we'll have to wait for genuine reviews to find out for sure.
If you have to build something right now id go with a 10700k, same performance and cores as the 11700k for $70 or $80 less.
 

pgaster

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I am really interested in Alder Lake but have a few problems with it.
Price is a big issue of course, but then again it's a big jump in IPC, a new architecture, new socket, and new DDR5 so some of that is to be expected I guess.
The biggest problem I have with it is the fused off AVX-512. I know this feature isn't a big thing yet and doesn't make much of a performance difference but I would bet that the Alder Lake refresh has this enabled so why splurge now? Why not wait a bit? Why pay for something that is broken/crippled? Also Alder Lake refresh will probably bring a new chipset with new motherboards that probably have updated VRM and updated featuresets. We know how this works. So again, why splurge right away? The refresh is the one to wait for.
 

legcramp

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If you ask those questions to every new tech release you'll never buy anything.
 

ZodaEX

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Inevitably AL will be more expensive. If the leaks are anything to go by it will also be quite a bit faster but we'll have to wait for genuine reviews to find out for sure.
If you have to build something right now id go with a 10700k, same performance and cores as the 11700k for $70 or $80 less.

I think you might miss out on pci-e 4.0 with the old 10700k.
 

chameleoneel

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Inevitably AL will be more expensive. If the leaks are anything to go by it will also be quite a bit faster but we'll have to wait for genuine reviews to find out for sure.
If you have to build something right now id go with a 10700k, same performance and cores as the 11700k for $70 or $80 less.
11700k woops the 10700k in everything but gaming----where they are more or less equal. However, bios/microcode updates have fixed the early gaming issues and allowed Rocket Lake's IPC to shine in some games and eclipse the 10 series.
 
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