Do XBOX 360s still have overheating problems?

[erf]

The failure rate on 360s IS too high. But it has improved as of late. I wouldn't be too worried about RROD, usually it's jut the clamps, which can be easily fixed even if it's not under M$ warranty.
I wouldn't worry about the RROD on a new system, yes it can happen to new systems but even if it does you're covered.
Normally I'm not much of an MS fan, but I do think they are doing a decent job with the RROD problems. The warranty extension impressed me, as well as the fairly decent turn around times I've heard on repairs. Yes it is ridiculous that it's still not totally fixed, but microsoft is doing much better than I would have expected.

you are wrong.....you obviously haven't had to deal with the problem yourself.........problem meaning continuing failed hardware and piss poor cs. you piss me off for defending them.

NO THE CUSTOMER SERVICE HAS NOT IMPROVED AND YES 360'S ARE BRICKING LEFT AND RIGHT EVEN AFTER THE SO CALLED IMPROVEMENTS.

 

[munkle]

you are wrong.....you obviously haven't had to deal with the problem yourself.........problem meaning continuing failed hardware and piss poor cs. you piss me off for defending them.

NO THE CUSTOMER SERVICE HAS NOT IMPROVED AND YES 360'S ARE BRICKING LEFT AND RIGHT EVEN AFTER THE SO CALLED IMPROVEMENTS.

IF IT PISSES YOU OFF DON'T BUY OR PLAY A XBOX. If you are so offended by the whole rrod situation then remove yourself from it and go buy a wii or ps3. Yes its a problem that xbox's are failing but MS stepped up to the plate and extended the warranty to 3 years. What do you want them to do? Find a fix, scrap their current inventory of mobos, produce a ton of new mobos while providing a seamless transition to a new revised xbox while having no old inventory and providing new xboxs to current owners? Not going to happen. If MS was making you pay a ton of money to fix your xbox you would have a right to complain but they are fixing it for free (excluding shipping) for 3 years.

People need to get real. It's a problem, if it bothers you so much don't buy an xbox, if you already have one don't play it, if it breaks send it to MS and sell the one you get back. There are alternatives to the 360 out there and if people are coming back after a couple broken consoles I would say thats a testament to the enjoyability of the 360. Give them some slack, they have a problem and they are trying to correct it, if you don't think so they upped the warranty and added a better heatsink, I'm sure they are still trying harder to fix the problem.

 

[jonneymendoza]

IF IT PISSES YOU OFF DON'T BUY OR PLAY A XBOX. If you are so offended by the whole rrod situation then remove yourself from it and go buy a wii or ps3. Yes its a problem that xbox's are failing but MS stepped up to the plate and extended the warranty to 3 years. What do you want them to do? Find a fix, scrap their current inventory of mobos, produce a ton of new mobos while providing a seamless transition to a new revised xbox while having no old inventory and providing new xboxs to current owners? Not going to happen. If MS was making you pay a ton of money to fix your xbox you would have a right to complain but they are fixing it for free (excluding shipping) for 3 years.

People need to get real. It's a problem, if it bothers you so much don't buy an xbox, if you already have one don't play it, if it breaks send it to MS and sell the one you get back. There are alternatives to the 360 out there and if people are coming back after a couple broken consoles I would say thats a testament to the enjoyability of the 360. Give them some slack, they have a problem and they are trying to correct it, if you don't think so they upped the warranty and added a better heatsink, I'm sure they are still trying harder to fix the problem.

no there is not, the ps3 has no games and the wii is just has bad, there realy is no alternative otherwise the 360 would of been long dead by now, if the ps3 had a great selection of games like the 360 i would of jumped into sony's dick looong time ago instead of dealing with a 360 that brakes more than you switch off your bedroom lights

 

[munkle]

no there is not, the ps3 has no games and the wii is just has bad, there realy is no alternative otherwise the 360 would of been long dead by now, if the ps3 had a great selection of games like the 360 i would of jumped into sony's dick looong time ago instead of dealing with a 360 that brakes more than you switch off your bedroom lights

Thats your personal opinion if you think there aren't VIABLE alternatives. The fact is there are alternatives, if you don't like the alternative tough luck for you. Don't complain about a console breaking if your not willing to change to a console that doesn't break.

 

[John]

Don't complain about a console breaking if your not willing to change to a console that doesn't break.

When I bought my last 360 I didn't see a notice anything on the box telling me that it was going to die through hardware failure after a couple of months. Therefore I reserve my right to complain, bitch and whine about the piss poor quality of the console.

 

[munkle]

When I bought my last 360 I didn't see a notice anything on the box telling me that it was going to die through hardware failure after a couple of months. Therefore I reserve my right to complain, bitch and whine about the piss poor quality of the console.

Microsoft will fix it, that last post of mine needs to be read with my post right before otherwise it sounds like I am being unreasonable, I just don't want to type all that out again. Either way MS is working on the problem, and whining will do you no good except make you look whiny. If you dislike the console so much sell it, I mean what do you people want? (a working non crappy xbox) but that just isn't reality right now. Please stop complaining because it just gets old.

 

[John]

Microsoft will fix it, that last post of mine needs to be read with my post right before otherwise it sounds like I am being unreasonable, I just don't want to type all that out again. Either way MS is working on the problem...

My Elite was manufactured in June 07 and died in August, I guess that means they've been "working on the problem" for at least a year with no solution. Blind faith in a company will get you nowhere. As for "Microsoft will fix it", of course they will - as long as you don't mind losing your console for the best part of a month, and getting it back in a sub-standard condition.

...and whining will do you no good except make you look whiny.

The collective whining of thousands upon thousands of dissatisfied Xbox 360 owners is a big reason why a lot of people are holding off on buying one. The Xbox 360 is defective by design and if "whining" about it informs potential buyers of what they'll be getting themselves into, it's worth doing. The fact that people are vocal about these problems is the reason we now have a 3 year warranty.

 

[munkle]

The fact that people are vocal about these problems is the reason we now have a 3 year warranty.

Theres a difference between being vocal and being whiny. Does it suck to have a broken xbox yes, am I saying don't voice your concerns? No I'm not, I'm saying don't be like this "omfg MS sucks my xbox broke for the 15th time, i hate them, they have horrible customer service. why did I buy a xbox, such a mistake, I hope ms dies". While thats an extreme exaggeration, its gotten to point where people ask "should I buy an xbox" and someone responds "no, they suck so much and break every 15 seconds". To me that is whiny, vocal would be: "should I get an xbox?", "no, they have some problems and are prone to break", or "My xbox broke today for the 3rd time, Im tired of this, MS needs to fix this problem".

To me thats vocal, but the vast majority of people on the whole complain about the xbox are simply whiny, unreasonable, and unrealistic about the problem at hand, its not going to fix itself over night. Changing the whole manufacturing process is a long and complicated process. If you can't see that they are trying to fix the problem then you are blind, I listed the new heatsink and 3 year warranty as part of the solution, is it the total solution? No its not but its a start, and its better they start somewhere than nowhere at all. There's plenty of other products on the market that do not meet their discription and are just plain faulty, and the companies that make them don't do jack to fix their products. I'll give a few examples, nforce 4 motherboards are supposed to have a hardware firewall, but the firewall corrupts downloads, this has never even been fixed for like 3 years, I don't think they have even tried. I have had multiple wireless routers that disconnect and drop their signal every few minutes and if you look up online the vast majority of owners are having the same problem, yet the company still produces the piece of crap and doesn't even attempt to fix it.

I just have a problem with people complaining about MS not fixing the problem, and getting pissed at them. If you actually see what they have done and how much it has cost them (billions) you wouldn't be so upset compared to the crap products other companies make and do not fix yet no one complains that much about it.

Edit: Found this thread, its a pretty good example of the crap people say about the xbox. Here. You have 3 people in the thread saying the xbox is going die, and all the guy said was that he bought an xbox. I personally find that very annoying.

 

[John]

Theres a difference between being vocal and being whiny. Does it suck to have a broken xbox yes, am I saying don't voice your concerns? No I'm not, I'm saying don't be like this "omfg MS sucks my xbox broke for the 15th time, i hate them, they have horrible customer service. why did I buy a xbox, such a mistake, I hope ms dies". While thats an extreme exaggeration, its gotten to point where people ask "should I buy an xbox" and someone responds "no, they suck so much and break every 15 seconds". To me that is whiny, vocal would be: "should I get an xbox?", "no, they have some problems and are prone to break", or "My xbox broke today for the 3rd time, Im tired of this, MS needs to fix this problem".

So your problem is that people aren't eloquent enough with their complaints? If your issue here is grammatical rather than anything related to the original post, this thread probably isn't the place for it.

To me thats vocal, but the vast majority of people on the whole complain about the xbox and simply whiny, unreasonable, and unrealistic about the problem at hand, its not going to fix itself over night. If you can't that they are trying to fix the problem then you are blind, I listed the new heatsink and 3 year warranty as part of the solution, is it the total solution? No its not but its a start, and its better they start somewhere than nowhere at all.

Well, that's where you and I differ in opinion. A half-arsed solution is not a solution, Microsoft don't earn brownie points for trying to fix a problem and failing miserably. When a company takes your money and supplies you with a faulty product, putting effort into fixing it and failing doesn't atone for that. Improved heatsinks are a useless gesture when the issue isn't caused by overheating in the first place, and all the extraneous modifications in the world don't provide a good enough reason to cut them some slack for a flawed product that falls far short of expectations.

 

[Grentz]

From someone that has dealt with a lot of friends with 360s and a lot of online communities around Xboxs in general I can say this...

Most of the RROD 360s seem to be coming from people who put their 360 in not the best spot. AKA in a closed entertainment center, on the carpet, in some cabinet, etc. A lot also come from people who put the 360 in a good spot but put the power supply in a spot with not much air flow. This in turn causes overheating and RROD.

I can say also that I have 10 or so close friends with 360s that have been going strong for almost/over a year now with no issues at all when they put it in a place with good air flow. I also know numerous other people with 360s that have not had any problems.

Your comeback will be that you put it in a just fine spot and/or you shouldn't have to pick spots to put your gaming console. But the truth is in the past we didn't have to try and pick a good spot, but now we do. Do you shove your PC in a closed box? No. Then don't shove your 360 in a closed box.

There IS a design flaw. I agree there is a design flaw. But MS is being nice and extending the warranty to 3 years (from 1...) and in reality I think we see a lot more people complaining about bad 360s than the people that are happy (this happens with anything) and thus the "Huge Issue" gets blown a bit out of proportion.

From the research I have seen the root cause of the problems is this:
-Heat builds up and causes the solder to become flexible along with the board itself
-The board is already bent under pressure of the xclamps and thus the solder points come undone
-This in turn causes the RROD

So it is caused by heat that causes the solder to flow and since the board is not flat (because of the xclamps putting so much pressure on it) the chips loose connection. If you dont believe me about the xclamps you should try looking at a 360 mainboard when removed...it is really flexed in the middle. This is not always a bad thing though as a lot of PC mainboards do the same thing with certain CPU coolers. But in the case of the 360, the heat with this flex causes the solder to come undone.

O, and for those interested there are some cheap DIY things you can do to keep your 360 cooler. Some void the warranty and some do not. I probably would recommend most people do not void the warranty now that it is 3 yrs though!

DIY Tips
Warranty Intact:
-Place 360 in a place with good airflow (keep in mind the 360 sucks in air from the bottom, top, and sides and then expells it out the back)
-Use your 360 horizontally as when placed vertically one of the largest air intakes is blocked (the right side, which turns into the bottom when placed vertical)
-Place the Power Brick in a place with good airflow (if possible put it up on two pieces of some thing so more air can flow around and under it)

Warranty Voided:
-Place a piece of card over the GPU heatsink to create better suction
-Place a piece of card between the two fans in the air duct to make it so one fan is devoted to GPU and one to CPU
-Seal up the cracks between the GPU/CPU heatsinks and the air duct with electrical or heat proof tape to create better suction
-Cut out the metal where the fans are to let the air flow more freely out

I have followed these tips and have a 360 that runs really cool, has had 0 problems in over a year of use, and I have been a happy 360 owner

 

[munkle]

So your problem is that people aren't eloquent enough with their complaints? If your issue here is grammatical rather than anything related to the original post, this thread probably isn't the place for it. Well, that's where you and I differ in opinion. A half-arsed solution is not a solution, Microsoft don't earn brownie points for trying to fix a problem and failing miserably. When a company takes your money and supplies you with a faulty product, putting effort into fixing it and failing doesn't atone for that. Improved heatsinks are a useless gesture when the issue isn't caused by overheating in the first place, and all the extraneous modifications in the world don't provide a good enough reason to cut them some slack for a flawed product that falls far short of expectations.

Wow, my quotes you quoted had some grammar errors, I fixed them in an edit but you didn't get them I guess . Well we're split then, to me with my experience in dealing with bad products from multiple companies, MS is doing a good job in correcting the situation. To you they are not. I guess that's that.

 

[John]

MS is doing a good job in correcting the situation. To you they are not. I guess that's that.

How can you say that when the consoles they're now shipping still suffer from the same issues?

 

[munkle]

How can you say that when the consoles they're now shipping still suffer from the same issues?

This is like a never ending circle. I listed what they are doing to correct the problem, and my thoughts on the problem. To me how they are handling the problem and trying to correct it they are doing an outstanding job compared to alot of other companies. Please don't try to tell me "its not fixed how are they doing a good job?". I don't know if you have ever dealt with other companies who have defective products, for me MS is doing so much better than many other companies have done with defective products. I don't know what else to say because I don't understand why people say they are horrible, they have a problem yes, but they are trying (yes trying is another term for failing, but better try and fail then not try at all) to correct the problem to the best of their abilities. If they had a solution don't you think they would implement it? It would save them ALOT of money to put in a fixed xbox then to send out faulty ones and have to repair them. Maybe the problem is that they don't know what is exactly wrong with the xbox and that it is alot more complicated then we think it is.

What would you like them to do? Seriously? Do you want them to stop producing xboxs until the problem is fixed? They are a business and have a product they need to sell, they are standing behind it and saying "hey we have a problem with our xboxs, we are putting a 3yr warranty on them, if you need a repair send it to us". Thats alot better than you would get with other companies.

I really do not know what else to say besides I'm sorry your xbox broke, I know they have a problem. Ms will fix it but I also know it sucks to be with out it for a month. That's life I'm sorry it happened to you. Maybe it's just me but I tend to give people quite a bit of leeway, if they treat me right then I am happy, and so far MS has treated me and this situation very well (in my opinion). You are entitled to your opinion to think MS stinks as a company, as for me, I do not think they stink.

 

[John]

To me how they are handling the problem and trying to correct it they are doing an outstanding job compared to alot of other companies.

I'm just completely baffled by your attitude towards this. From my perspective (I've had 4 consoles red ring, one of them with the new heatsink), the only measure to correct the problem has been the introduction of the 3 year warranty. (Which ultimately, still doesn't result in getting a reliable console.) You say you've listed the steps Microsoft has taken to fix the issue, but what have they really done other than extending the warranty? (Which in itself isn't a permanent fix.)

Please don't try to tell me "its not fixed how are they doing a good job?". I don't know if you have ever dealt with other companies who have defective products, for me MS is doing so much better than many other companies have done with defective products. I don't know what else to say because I don't understand why people say they are horrible, they have a problem yes, but they are trying (yes trying is another term for failing, but better try and fail then not try at all) to correct the problem.

I have lots of experience in this area. For example, when my brother's Wii stopped reading disks, Nintendo replaced the console within three days. The new console works perfectly. When my laptop battery was found to be at risk of being faulty, it was recalled and replaced. When the original Xbox's power cord proved to be setting people's houses on fire, Microsoft promptly initiated a recall and replacement plan. You appear to be claiming that you have a lot of experience in dealing with defective products and that this instance is relatively minor, when personally I can't remember the last time a major mainstream product had issues of this magnitude.

What would you like them to do? Seriously? Do you want them to stop producing xboxs until the problem is fixed? They are a business and have a product they need to sell, they are standing behind it and saying "hey we have a problem with our xboxs, we are putting a 3yr warranty on them, if you need a repair send it to us". Thats alot better than you would get with other companies.

Well, since you asked:
- If Microsoft do at some point redesign the console so that it becomes reliable, returned faulty consoles should be replaced with the new hardware. (Which I'm sure they'll do.) However, as things stand:
- If they don't come up with a solution, I should be able to receive a full refund instead of getting stuck in the system replacement loop.
- If the systems are going to fail, it'd be nice if the console you received back: (a) worked (b) was in the same condition you sent it in

I really do not know what else to say besides I'm sorry your xbox broke, I know they have a problem.

I appreciate that - but it's plural in my case, as in all four of the Xbox 360s I've owned have red ringed.

This is like a never ending circle. I listed what they are doing to correct the problem, and my thoughts on the problem.

Well, here's the thing. You came into this thread on the offensive, telling people why they're wrong and you're right, and how they shouldn't be complaining. Then you complain that it's the quality of their posts that you find irritating. Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that you're happy for a company to knowingly sell you a defective product as long as they keep replacing it each time it fails. If you're fine with that, great - just don't go telling people to think otherwise because you deem Microsoft's efforts to be acceptable.

 

[WhiteZero]

Ya know, I'd love to see some honest reports on how people had their 360 enviromentally placed before it RRoDed. Weather or not they actually gave the thing any ventillation.
I know I have mine placed on top of my desk, completly open air, along with the power adapter as well, all the ventilation ports have plenty of room around them.

 

[kelbear]

I'm just completely baffled by your attitude towards this. From my perspective (I've had 4 consoles red ring, one of them with the new heatsink), the only measure to correct the problem has been the introduction of the 3 year warranty. (Which ultimately, still doesn't result in getting a reliable console.) You say you've listed the steps Microsoft has taken to fix the issue, but what have they really done other than extending the warranty? (Which in itself isn't a permanent fix.)



I have lots of experience in this area. For example, when my brother's Wii stopped reading disks, Nintendo replaced the console within three days. The new console works perfectly. When my laptop battery was found to be at risk of being faulty, it was recalled and replaced. When the original Xbox's power cord proved to be setting people's houses on fire, Microsoft promptly initiated a recall and replacement plan. You appear to be claiming that you have a lot of experience in dealing with defective products and that this instance is relatively minor, when personally I can't remember the last time a major mainstream product had issues of this magnitude.



Well, since you asked:
- If Microsoft do at some point redesign the console so that it becomes reliable, returned faulty consoles should be replaced with the new hardware. (Which I'm sure they'll do.) However, as things stand:
- If they don't come up with a solution, I should be able to receive a full refund instead of getting stuck in the system replacement loop.
- If the systems are going to fail, it'd be nice if the console you received back: (a) worked (b) was in the same condition you sent it in



I appreciate that - but it's plural in my case, as in all four of the Xbox 360s I've owned have red ringed.



Well, here's the thing. You came into this thread on the offensive, telling people why they're wrong and you're right, and how they shouldn't be complaining. Then you complain that it's the quality of their posts that you find irritating. Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that you're happy for a company to knowingly sell you a defective product as long as they keep replacing it each time it fails. If you're fine with that, great - just don't go telling people to think otherwise because you deem Microsoft's efforts to be acceptable.

It was a design flaw on MS's part that allows board flexing under normal usage.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/fixed-stuff/greenberg-says-current-xbox-360s-are-improved-302239.php

A new purchase could potentially still be broken if you get an older revision. If you get a new revision, you get the fix. If it breaks again due to RROD, they add the fix, unfortunately, adding the fix means "repairing" it takes longer, so wait times are around 6 weeks now for the repair. It's better than repairing it only to have it re-brick and need another repair, which is how their warranty used to work. An even better situation would be not having the bricking be such a prevalent problem in the first place, like with the others in this generation.

 

[kelbear]

Ya know, I'd love to see some honest reports on how people had their 360 enviromentally placed before it RRoDed. Weather or not they actually gave the thing any ventillation.
I know I have mine placed on top of my desk, completly open air, along with the power adapter as well, all the ventilation ports have plenty of room around them.

It was sitting on a table in the open, under the air conditioner, with no blocked vents. For comparison, just 6 inches to the side, sits the Wii.

How many other pieces of hardware in a similar class need to be treated like they're made out of spun-glass and butterfly wings? Are these pieces of hardware failing at similar rates? ( http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gaming/xbox-360-failure-rate-30-says-retailers-271487.php )

 

[erf]

Theres a difference between being vocal and being whiny. Does it suck to have a broken xbox yes, am I saying don't voice your concerns? No I'm not, I'm saying don't be like this "omfg MS sucks my xbox broke for the 15th time, i hate them, they have horrible customer service. why did I buy a xbox, such a mistake, I hope ms dies". While thats an extreme exaggeration, its gotten to point where people ask "should I buy an xbox" and someone responds "no, they suck so much and break every 15 seconds". To me that is whiny, vocal would be: "should I get an xbox?", "no, they have some problems and are prone to break", or "My xbox broke today for the 3rd time, Im tired of this, MS needs to fix this problem".

To me thats vocal, but the vast majority of people on the whole complain about the xbox are simply whiny, unreasonable, and unrealistic about the problem at hand, its not going to fix itself over night. Changing the whole manufacturing process is a long and complicated process. If you can't see that they are trying to fix the problem then you are blind, I listed the new heatsink and 3 year warranty as part of the solution, is it the total solution? No its not but its a start, and its better they start somewhere than nowhere at all. There's plenty of other products on the market that do not meet their discription and are just plain faulty, and the companies that make them don't do jack to fix their products. I'll give a few examples, nforce 4 motherboards are supposed to have a hardware firewall, but the firewall corrupts downloads, this has never even been fixed for like 3 years, I don't think they have even tried. I have had multiple wireless routers that disconnect and drop their signal every few minutes and if you look up online the vast majority of owners are having the same problem, yet the company still produces the piece of crap and doesn't even attempt to fix it.

I just have a problem with people complaining about MS not fixing the problem, and getting pissed at them. If you actually see what they have done and how much it has cost them (billions) you wouldn't be so upset compared to the crap products other companies make and do not fix yet no one complains that much about it.

Edit: Found this thread, its a pretty good example of the crap people say about the xbox. Here. You have 3 people in the thread saying the xbox is going die, and all the guy said was that he bought an xbox. I personally find that very annoying.

Ironic how you run your fucking mouth, whine, and bitch in a thread about whining and bitching. Go find another forum to post in if you don't like the complaining.

edit: btw...you have been fucking owned in this thread.

 

[jonneymendoza]

if they know what the design flaw is, why dont they fix it? generaly when a person knows what the problem is, finding a solution doesnt take has long has finding out what the actual problem is.

at the end of the day we have every right to moan and be angring with MS has we bought a console that is SUPPOSE to work out of the box.

at this point i rather go through all that activation crap you see in the pc version of bioshock then to play it on a console that brakes easily

 

[John]

if they know what the design flaw is, why dont they fix it? generaly when a person knows what the problem is, finding a solution doesnt take has long has finding out what the actual problem is.

at the end of the day we have every right to moan and be angring with MS has we bought a console that is SUPPOSE to work out of the box.

at this point i rather go through all that activation crap you see in the pc version of bioshock then to play it on a console that brakes easily

People have been fixing the problem, by replacing the clamp that holds down the GPU with something that doesn't warp the motherboard. (I've done this myself on three of my own consoles, and they're all working perfectly.)

I have no idea why MS isn't seeing this. You can buy commercial fix kits for the console that work, and they still ship 360s with the same flawed clamps.

 

[jonneymendoza]

People have been fixing the problem, by replacing the clamp that holds down the GPU with something that doesn't warp the motherboard. (I've done this myself on three of my own consoles, and they're all working perfectly.)

I have no idea why MS isn't seeing this. You can buy commercial fix kits for the console that work, and they still ship 360s with the same flawed clamps.

yes people such has yourself have been fixing thsi problem but MS themselves are too dumb to follow suit. they wanna find there own method of fixing it while ignoring a proven soltuion provided by the masses.

on a side note does using a laptop cooler work better than the intercooler?

 

[dopefishzzz]

My broken 360 just came back from repairs.

It took less than 2 weeks including shipping from and to Canada.

Impressive if you ask me.

 

[Timbowens]

I'm just completely baffled by your attitude towards this. From my perspective (I've had 4 consoles red ring, one of them with the new heatsink), the only measure to correct the problem has been the introduction of the 3 year warranty. (Which ultimately, still doesn't result in getting a reliable console.) You say you've listed the steps Microsoft has taken to fix the issue, but what have they really done other than extending the warranty? (Which in itself isn't a permanent fix.)



I have lots of experience in this area. For example, when my brother's Wii stopped reading disks, Nintendo replaced the console within three days. The new console works perfectly. When my laptop battery was found to be at risk of being faulty, it was recalled and replaced. When the original Xbox's power cord proved to be setting people's houses on fire, Microsoft promptly initiated a recall and replacement plan. You appear to be claiming that you have a lot of experience in dealing with defective products and that this instance is relatively minor, when personally I can't remember the last time a major mainstream product had issues of this magnitude.



Well, since you asked:
- If Microsoft do at some point redesign the console so that it becomes reliable, returned faulty consoles should be replaced with the new hardware. (Which I'm sure they'll do.) However, as things stand:
- If they don't come up with a solution, I should be able to receive a full refund instead of getting stuck in the system replacement loop.
- If the systems are going to fail, it'd be nice if the console you received back: (a) worked (b) was in the same condition you sent it in



I appreciate that - but it's plural in my case, as in all four of the Xbox 360s I've owned have red ringed.



Well, here's the thing. You came into this thread on the offensive, telling people why they're wrong and you're right, and how they shouldn't be complaining. Then you complain that it's the quality of their posts that you find irritating. Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that you're happy for a company to knowingly sell you a defective product as long as they keep replacing it each time it fails. If you're fine with that, great - just don't go telling people to think otherwise because you deem Microsoft's efforts to be acceptable.

I'm hesitant to say this, because I don't want to start anything, and you seem intelligent, but after 4 consoles I can see where someone would want to question just what exactly you are doing with these things. Poor power brick placement?

What are the chances that you got 4 bad consoles? There are many people who've had theirs for quite some time that haven't had a single issue. I've had three that are all fine.

In addition to that, when I called MS because I thought I had a problem, the support was excellent.

I'm with you that they should be busting their asses to make sure these things don't break anymore, but extending the warranty was a step in the right direction.

 

[Timbowens]

People have been fixing the problem, by replacing the clamp that holds down the GPU with something that doesn't warp the motherboard. (I've done this myself on three of my own consoles, and they're all working perfectly.)

I have no idea why MS isn't seeing this. You can buy commercial fix kits for the console that work, and they still ship 360s with the same flawed clamps.

I must have read something wrong, I though you had 4 Red Ring on you.

 

[kelbear]

I'm hesitant to say this, because I don't want to start anything, and you seem intelligent, but after 4 consoles I can see where someone would want to question just what exactly you are doing with these things. Poor power brick placement?

What are the chances that you got 4 bad consoles? There are many people who've had theirs for quite some time that haven't had a single issue. I've had three that are all fine.

In addition to that, when I called MS because I thought I had a problem, the support was excellent.

I'm with you that they should be busting their asses to make sure these things don't break anymore, but extending the warranty was a step in the right direction.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gaming/xb...ers-271487.php

The chances of 4 bad consoles is 0.0081. 30%*30%*30%*30%.

However: http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/07/11/xbox-360-facts-n-stats-are-statilicious/

There are 11.6million sold.

11.6 mil * .0081 = 93,960 people have had 4 RROD Xbox360s. So it's entirely possible to have 4 breaks, in fact the odds say that, more than 90 thousand people would have 4 breaks. He's apparently a part of that group. There is opportunity for reality to defy the odds, but that tends to occur in small samples, and 11,600,00 is most definitely a large sample size. This would be a normal curve if it was just a 30% overall chance on each. However, the older repair policy was to only "fix" the broken console until it could boot without addressing the original cause, so that a second occurence is even more likely. This expands the curve even more for a multi-break occurence. They do have a new console replacement policy but that's only for extreme break numbers like 7 and above which are truly rare.

I'm in the much larger and more fortunate group who have only had 1 red ring(the other bricking was due to MS's flawed 2006 fall update, a much smaller issue). 30% of 11.6 million is 3,480,000 of which that 93,960 would be included(not added).

So hopefully the new heatpipes will reduce the occurences of breakage on th enewly produced Xbox360s, and will be the end of the break-fix-break cycles. We'll just have to wait to see how many report that their heatpiped Xbox360s are still breaking(there will be some of course, we need to see how many, and if it's the 3 RROD error specifically). It's still too early to tell if this solution managed to bring the problem down to tolerable levels.

But don't pretend that this never happened in the first place.

EDIT: Also, the power brick issue is a different error, not as common as the RROD, and brings up a different error signal I believe, the number and positioning of the RROD identify what the problem is, the RROD is just the NW, SW, and SE quadrants.

 

[Pocatello]

Any news about the 65 nm manufacturing process for the CPUs on the xbox 360?

Thanks.

 

[John]

Timbowens and kelbear - two of the consoles were launch consoles, the other two were more recent - but all of the consoles get used a lot. The two newer consoles both died during mammoth play sessions (The Elite red ringed after being played for 16 hours straight.) The two launch consoles were used on average for 4-8 hours a day. The fourth console died while being loaned to a friend.

I could believe that the failure is 30% overall, but I'm starting to think that age + usage has a lot to do with it.

 

[Sixthsense]

What ever happened to that watercooled 360 that [H] built. Is that still running?

 

[Timbowens]

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gaming/xb...ers-271487.php

The chances of 4 bad consoles is 0.0081. 30%*30%*30%*30%.

However: http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/07/11/xbox-360-facts-n-stats-are-statilicious/

There are 11.6million sold.

11.6 mil * .0081 = 93,960 people have had 4 RROD Xbox360s. So it's entirely possible to have 4 breaks, in fact the odds say that, more than 90 thousand people would have 4 breaks. He's apparently a part of that group. There is opportunity for reality to defy the odds, but that tends to occur in small samples, and 11,600,00 is most definitely a large sample size. This would be a normal curve if it was just a 30% overall chance on each. However, the older repair policy was to only "fix" the broken console until it could boot without addressing the original cause, so that a second occurence is even more likely. This expands the curve even more for a multi-break occurence. They do have a new console replacement policy but that's only for extreme break numbers like 7 and above which are truly rare.

I'm in the much larger and more fortunate group who have only had 1 red ring(the other bricking was due to MS's flawed 2006 fall update, a much smaller issue). 30% of 11.6 million is 3,480,000 of which that 93,960 would be included(not added).

So hopefully the new heatpipes will reduce the occurences of breakage on th enewly produced Xbox360s, and will be the end of the break-fix-break cycles. We'll just have to wait to see how many report that their heatpiped Xbox360s are still breaking(there will be some of course, we need to see how many, and if it's the 3 RROD error specifically). It's still too early to tell if this solution managed to bring the problem down to tolerable levels.

But don't pretend that this never happened in the first place.

EDIT: Also, the power brick issue is a different error, not as common as the RROD, and brings up a different error signal I believe, the number and positioning of the RROD identify what the problem is, the RROD is just the NW, SW, and SE quadrants.

Well, you've got a whole lot of numbers there, good work (seriously), but I'm afraid it's all for not.

While I'll agree they break, but 30% is a huge number making it hard for me to believe. To top that off, it isn't an official number.

No, sorry, retailers don't count as an official source.

You put a lot of effort into your post instead of just being a blow hard like most people, so I appreciate that.

John -

Wow, you really play those things huh? I'll say this, I think you should be able to turn the thing on and play it for a 100 hours straight without fear of it breaking. It sucks, I'm with you on that. My 360 sees, at most, an hour of game play about 2 to 3 days a week, so I'm sure that's why mine haven't bit the dust.

 

[theDreamer]

Timbowens, the thing you have to remember is if a 360 break it will most likely break unless they fix the exact problem. Which in most cases they do not, they just replace a few items and if they get it booted up they ship it out. So pulling into the repeat failure rate the number is pretty solid.

 

[John]

John -

Wow, you really play those things huh? I'll say this, I think you should be able to turn the thing on and play it for a 100 hours straight without fear of it breaking. It sucks, I'm with you on that. My 360 sees, at most, an hour of game play about 2 to 3 days a week, so I'm sure that's why mine haven't bit the dust.

It's more of a case of friends playing local multiplayer games (I don't play all the consoles at once, heh).

 

[kelbear]

Ah, it is hard to believe, which is why I found it hard to believe this article:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160603

It has audio of a conversation with an MS customer service rep, which is falsifiable. 1up looked in and verified, which is also falsifiable. The reason 11 breaks is so ridiculous is because MS claimed it was within the 5% industry standard for failures. However I looked at this back then as well(There were about 10 million on the market at the time). .05^11 = 0.0000000000000048828125, and * 10,000,000 is 0.000000048828125. So it's a snowball's chance in hell for .05 to be the correct failure rate, or for this guy to be telling the truth. A failure rate that could account for 11 breaks as being plausible is 25%, which is .25^11 = 0.0000002384185791015625 and * 10,000,000 gets 2.384.

So out of 10 million purchases, a 25% failure rate gives opportunity for 2 people to have 11 breaks.

This is not definitive since reality does not need to match the odds, but 25% is what it would take to make this an expected event, otherwise it's FANTASTICALLY unlikely(or the 11 failures to be a BS claim). Again, as noted in the previous post repeat failures on the same console become more likely, so this isn't a normal curve and overcoming standard deviations to reach 11 is more plausible. It's so incredibly unlikely to reach 11 that I figured his claim was BS and that the number was much lower, a blind guess at around 15%. However, the retailer numbers came out at around 30% which matches the 11 case, and reports of high numbers of these boxes passing through post offices...plus the massive number of complaint threads all over the internet...

None of it is definitive, but it's all pointing in the direction of a higher than normal failure rate. It's enough to say that a normal 5% failure rate is looking pretty unlikely as well. It's more than normal, the question is how much more. The thing is, the only definitive evidence is MS flat out admitting their mistake which is basically financial suicide. They leave themselves open for a lawsuit and being forced to recall instead of upgrade on a case by case basis. The retailer number of 30% is probably the best possible statistic that anyone could hope for. I can't think of a better confirmation.

So nobody can hold them accountable except themselves, and it's not a good idea to just take a business's word at face value when it's against their own interests.

Alan Moore has been directly asked in interviews as to what the failure rate actually is, and he declined to provide the numbers. When they asked if the 3-5% industry standard rate he had originally provided in earlier interviews still holds he responded that, "Our failure rates are a moving target".(http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5539&Itemid=2)

It'd be easier to just say that it's within industry standards if it were true. Why not just say that's the case and that it's just warped perceptions? But that's all we have. However, some time after the interview, they did come back with the expanded warranties and the plan to put in the heatsinks. Again, not an admission of guilt, but an attempt to solve the problem on their own terms without the potential of a lawsuit.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Well, you've got a whole lot of numbers there, good work (seriously), but I'm afraid it's all for not.

While I'll agree they break, but 30% is a huge number making it hard for me to believe. To top that off, it isn't an official number.

No, sorry, retailers don't count as an official source.

You put a lot of effort into your post instead of just being a blow hard like most people, so I appreciate that.

John -

Wow, you really play those things huh? I'll say this, I think you should be able to turn the thing on and play it for a 100 hours straight without fear of it breaking. It sucks, I'm with you on that. My 360 sees, at most, an hour of game play about 2 to 3 days a week, so I'm sure that's why mine haven't bit the dust.

why do users have to take EXTRA care with a 360 though, you should not have to worrie where u place your power brick or weather your console is horizontal/verticle the damm thing should work regardless

im gunna recieve my 4th yes 4TH FUCKING 360 and it better last me a good couple of years .

 

[erf]

I'm hesitant to say this, because I don't want to start anything, and you seem intelligent, but after 4 consoles I can see where someone would want to question just what exactly you are doing with these things. Poor power brick placement?

What are the chances that you got 4 bad consoles? There are many people who've had theirs for quite some time that haven't had a single issue. I've had three that are all fine.

In addition to that, when I called MS because I thought I had a problem, the support was excellent.

I'm with you that they should be busting their asses to make sure these things don't break anymore, but extending the warranty was a step in the right direction.

whoa buddy.....first of all, everyone one of my 360's have been taken care of. second of all I will also be on my 4th console when it arrives from the repair center........and yes any console i own get's a nice amount of playtime.

for the record i was talking to a guy at gamestop the other day and he said he will be on his 7th console. trust my man it happens.....and it seems like it happens alot more than it should.

 

[Timbowens]

whoa buddy.....first of all, everyone one of my 360's have been taken care of. second of all I will also be on my 4th console when it arrives from the repair center........and yes any console i own get's a nice amount of playtime.

for the record i was talking to a guy at gamestop the other day and he said he will be on his 7th console. trust my man it happens.....and it seems like it happens alot more than it should.

I believe you, but that just sounds so crazy to me. I guess that is why they set aside a billion dollars for the repairs lol.

 

[erf]

I believe you, but that just sounds so crazy to me. I guess that is why they set aside a billion dollars for the repairs lol.

it IS crazy.......i still can't believe hardware failure has caused me to miss 2 major software releases......GoW was first now Halo 3.....it's annoying.

 

[ThreeDee]

dont let yourself get wrapped in gaming so your life revolves around it ..and then the down time you experience thru these hardware failures isnt going to matter so much ..

I'm on my third one now and as long as Microsoft doesnt charge me to fix a design flaw on their part ..then I don't mind so much .. lot's of more important things in life than to get enraged at something as petty as a gaming console .. bear in mind that that still doesn't excuse Microsoft for putting out a shoddy product (hardware wise) ..

I'm still going to enjoy my X360 .. and if/when it breaks again .. I'll send it back to them (Micorsoft) again ..no big deal


[F]old|[H]ard

 

[doox00]

I'm hesitant to say this, because I don't want to start anything, and you seem intelligent, but after 4 consoles I can see where someone would want to question just what exactly you are doing with these things. Poor power brick placement?

What are the chances that you got 4 bad consoles? There are many people who've had theirs for quite some time that haven't had a single issue. I've had three that are all fine.

In addition to that, when I called MS because I thought I had a problem, the support was excellent.

I'm with you that they should be busting their asses to make sure these things don't break anymore, but extending the warranty was a step in the right direction.

I went through 4 consoles also in less than 3 months time. All were replaced with new units from sams club. The 4th replacement I got about 3 months ago, but have only used the 360 maybe 4 hours since I got it. Hope this one lasts, especially at 4 hours of use per 3 months

 

[erf]

dont let yourself get wrapped in gaming so your life revolves around it ..and then the down time you experience thru these hardware failures isnt going to matter so much ..

I'm on my third one now and as long as Microsoft doesnt charge me to fix a design flaw on their part ..then I don't mind so much .. lot's of more important things in life than to get enraged at something as petty as a gaming console .. bear in mind that that still doesn't excuse Microsoft for putting out a shoddy product (hardware wise) ..

I'm still going to enjoy my X360 .. and if/when it breaks again .. I'll send it back to them (Micorsoft) again ..no big deal


[F]old|[H]ard

Do you get taken advantage of much? There is nothing wrong with gaming being a big part of your life.........this really is beside the point of the thread though.

How M$ is handling this situation is NOT petty. It's PATHETIC. Of course there are other things to get enraged about, but there is nothing else in my personal life that enrages me more RIGHT NOW than M$'s shitty hardware and shitty customer service.

edit: I just noticed you enjoyed the convenience of being able to take your consoles back to Sam's for a quick exchange........no wonder your attitude is so optimistic.

 

[ThreeDee]

Do you get taken advantage of much? There is nothing wrong with gaming being a big part of your life.........this really is beside the point of the thread though.

How M$ is handling this situation is NOT petty. It's PATHETIC. Of course there are other things to get enraged about, but there is nothing else in my personal life that enrages me more RIGHT NOW than M$'s shitty hardware and shitty customer service.

edit: I just noticed you enjoyed the convenience of being able to take your consoles back to Sam's for a quick exchange........no wonder your attitude is so optimistic.

took one back to BB and 2nd one shipped off to Microsoft .. never dealt with Sam's club

.. ..yeah , my optimism allows me to be taken advantage of on every other Lunar Monday ,and twice on Sundays ..

I'm not making any excuses for Microsoft .. but it's kinda sad when games have so much control over us as individuals both from playing ..basically a time waster .. and the lack there of because individuals get upset because they can't play...

same could be said of T.V. and movies I suppose .. this is just my personal commentary on the subject of dealing with the 360's hardware failures ..

how an individual chooses to deal with their 360 dying is their business ..I just choose to shrug my shoulders and say "oh well " ..me getting all hot and bothered by it isn't going to get my unit repaired any quicker .. it's still probably going to fail again based on information supplied in this thread ..when it does, I'll just get another one and continue to do so as long as it's on Microsoft's dime